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One thing is things like the Wulfen, the Space Wolves turns into the Wulfen, that's insane werewolves, they don't change species, and Draigo is off-topic. People seem to do all sort of explanations for him. I'm sure you even have your which ain't stated.
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
Thunderwolves are considered xenos, aren't they? I thought that was in the codex somewhere as an explanation for why imperial records of wolf cavalry is dodgy at best.
Ehm that actually makes the suggestion the Space Wolves changing species entirely moot, plus they are rarely seen because they are akin to gold-mines for orks.
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
Kaldor wasn't so much as a sperm in Draigo sr's sack when the Primarchs were made.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
He is not a subject here, and it's a better guess than the daemon prince of the Emperor I have heard. I'm wondering why the hell that is coming up.
He certainly could have been that as he unaided and alone not only takes out several very skilled Plague Marines, and then tattoos the former Supreme Grandmaster's name on the heart of a living god with demonic upgrades. Then again Magnus has it almost as humiliating, he is a living bullseye for Ragnar.
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
Beaviz81 wrote: He is not a subject here, and it's a better guess than the daemon prince of the Emperor I have heard. I'm wondering why the hell that is coming up.
He certainly could have been that as he unaided and alone not only takes out several very skilled Plague Marines, and then tattoos the former Supreme Grandmaster's name on the heart of a living god with demonic upgrades. Then again Magnus has it almost as humiliating, he is a living bullseye for Ragnar.
I'm fairly sure we got like...an entire book series building up to Ragnar's victory over Magnus.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
WHAAAT ARE FREKI AND GERI? XENOS? MUTANT COLONISTS? INITIATES ? FALLEN FENRIS HEROES? WOLVES? MYTH?
Toooo many questions, so little time....
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/30 18:26:51
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
Beaviz81 wrote: I rather go for xeno animal-life than anything else. They ain't wolves of this planet (wolves can't bite through steel).
As for Geri and Freki they are mythological creatures that actually was the warhounds of Odin himself.
And Leman's brothers....So master Yoda would say : Initiates, not they are....
Or if they were mutated, first colonists ( wink, wink, nod, nod ) ??? But they were wolves....
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/04/30 18:33:17
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
And Magnus traded his eye for knowlege ergo Magnus is a space wolf.....Odin...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/30 18:36:55
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
Beaviz81 wrote: When and were VD? And explain how Leman Russ was reared by a she-wolf with that quote. And please find me where it's stated. And do a proper job like Lynata does (really strange claims must be backed up). I don't mean to come off as rude, but that is something you need to substasiate VD.
Spoiler:
The wolf maintained its grip until the bull gave up its last,
trembling rumble, then it let go. Blood dripped from its snout. It
padded around the massive corpse twice, moving quickly, head
low, sniffing.
It stopped beside the head of its kill, and raised its own head,
ears upright, to stare at Hawser. Its eyes were golden and blackpinned.
Hawser stared back. He knew if he tried to get back on
his feet, the wolf would still be taller than him.
‘There are no wolves on Fenris.’
Hawser looked up. Longfang was standing beside him, staring
at the wolf.
‘That’s evidently not true at all,’ Hawser replied in a tiny voice.
Longfang grinned down at him.
‘Try to keep up, skjald. There were no wolves on Fenris until
we got here.’
Longfang looked back at the wolf.
‘Twice he’s helped protect you,’ he said.
‘What?’ asked Hawser.
‘He had a different name last time you were in his company,’
said Longfang. ‘Then, he was called Brom.’
The black wolf turned and ran for the forest, accelerating as only
a mammalian apex predator can. It vanished into the enormous
darkness under the evergreens.
After a few seconds, Hawser saw its eyes staring out of the
blackness at them: luminous, gold and black-pinned.
It took him another few moments to realise that there were another
ten thousand pairs of eyes watching them from the shadows
of the forest.
Bam. From chapter eight of Prospero Burns, near the end of it. I can't give you a page number because I have it via ebook, in pdf form.
As for the story of Leman Russ, there are two main possibilities:
A. It's a myth.
B. He was raised by the original, mutated human settlers of Fenris.
Anyway, may I have everyone's concession please?
Spoiler:
‘Even though you’ve suffered from a crippling fear of wolves since your earliest years?’ asked Valdor.
‘There are no wolves on Fenris,’ replied Hawser.
‘Oh, you know there are,’ growled Russ, his voice a wet leopard-purr, ‘and you know what they are.’~Prospero Burns
No spoiler really needed since the book is so old. But it shows that Longfang's "Secret" that he shared with Hawser was not only true but it was known that Longfang told him that secret within the Wolves. And also that Russ did not Hawser telling everyone that secret. But that does not mean that there were not Fenris Wolves on Fenris before the coming of the SWs. But when combined with a few different quotes can easily mean that there where no Fenris Wolves before the coming of humans. An idea backed up by Magnus in A Thousand Sons.
Beaviz81 wrote: Of course I'm serious, you can't go up against fluff VD, not when it is written in stone, and nowhere is it stated in the codex the Space Wolves turns into wolves, there ain't two ways about this.
Ah, so you believe absence of evidence is the same as evidence of absence.
I'm not the one going up against the Space Wolves codex, it doesn't say the failed Space Wolves turns into to wolves, no sir, they are stated to be Wulfen. You are going up against fluff.
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
‘Even though you’ve suffered from a crippling fear of wolves since your earliest years?’ asked Valdor.
‘There are no wolves on Fenris,’ replied Hawser.
‘Oh, you know there are,’ growled Russ, his voice a wet leopard-purr, ‘and you know what they are.’~Prospero Burns
No spoiler really needed since the book is so old. But it shows that Longfang's "Secret" that he shared with Hawser was not only true but it was known that Longfang told him that secret within the Wolves. And also that Russ did not Hawser telling everyone that secret. But that does not mean that there were not Fenris Wolves on Fenris before the coming of the SWs. But when combined with a few different quotes can easily mean that there where no Fenris Wolves before the coming of humans. An idea backed up by Magnus in A Thousand Sons.
Spoiler:
Right, he knows they are battle brothers, who sometimes are ridden by other battle brothers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/30 20:19:52
I Love Space wolves, but I kind of like Ultramarines too (I play one in deathwatch.) The only Chapter I really don't like are the Blood Raven's, and that's only because THQ kept shoving them down my throat.
I used to loath Space Wolves until I read Prospero Burns, and gained a bit of respect and appreciation for them. Still doesn't change the fact that I'm not very fond of them.
Part of this stems from the fact that they have been the most OP Marine chapter (not counting GK) since the 2nd edition block of cheddar known as a codex was released. This is made worse by the fact that SW armies always consist of multiple rune priests (sometimes 3-4) for an army that allegedly hates and fears psykers. Oh, and three Longfang squads is pretty standard too, for an army that prefers to make things up close and personal. But that's more about the game play.
As far as the fluff goes, most of their BL stories are mere bolter porn with little to no real character depth. A Thousand Sons really made them out to be total hypocrits, but Prospero Burns softened that perception just a bit. Of course, most of the Horus Heresy novels have taken an almost sympathetic approach to the traitor legions, so its no big surprise the loyalist often come out looking bad.
I actually kind of like space wolves for their attitude towards the imperial guard and other humans loyal to the Imperium.
That said, they're just sooo easy to make fun of... sometimes one can't resist a bit of playing around and offer doggy treats
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
They can be due to the 80% increase in musclemass, so they end in big torso guy and small legs guy, which can result in them being like dogs at times, but unlike dogs they ain't at all cuddly and such.
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
So Space Wolves ride Thunderwolves that used to be Space Wolves? Does anyone else get some uncomfortable overtones from that?
Irregardless, no Space Wolf fluff will ever live up to the tale of Canis Wolfborn.
Canis means dog, so his name is Dog Wolfborn. Dog Wolfborn is a Wolf Guard to Wolf Lord Harald Deathwolf of the Space Wolves, and he rides a Thunderwolf. The word 'wolf' is used so many times in his background that it stops sounding like a real word.
There's a lot more disturbing undertones than that in regular marine lore.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Kaldor wasn't so much as a sperm in Draigo sr's sack when the Primarchs were made.
