Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/28 15:33:13
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Simple, i can understand the NESW of the star but what what are the the other four? Maybe there's no proper canon answer but i'd love to hear some theories. I guess it does look cool for starters.
Thanks for any replies!
|
Mary Sue wrote: Perkustin is even more awesome than me!
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/28 15:38:07
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
Norway
|
It's the Chaos-star, so it's supposed to look like it.
There are eight levels of hell obtainable by humans.
|
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/28 15:52:21
Subject: Re:Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Gimlet-Eyed Inquisitorial Acolyte
|
Because that's what it looked like when Michael Moorcock invented it, and GW just ripped him off. Pretty sure the symbol itself just started as a doodle.
|
War is delightful to those who have no experience of it. ~Desiderius Erasmus |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/28 17:09:07
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions
Isstvan III
|
The arrows point in all directions, which I think is meant to represent all possibilities. Which is representative of pure Chaos itself; formless and ever expansive.
|
13th Black Crusade Force 5,000+ pts Horus Heresy 1,500 pts WIP
DA:90-SGM+B+I+Pw40k09/re#--D+++++A++/wWD356R--T(S)DM+
"When the traitor's hand strikes, it strikes with the strength of a Legion."
"It is human nature to seek culpability in a time of tragedy. It is a sign of strength to cry out against fate, rather than to bow one's head and succumb." |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/28 17:16:44
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Helpful Sophotect
|
TheDiscoSpider wrote:The arrows point in all directions, which I think is meant to represent all possibilities. Which is representative of pure Chaos itself; formless and ever expansive.
ashrog wrote:Because that's what it looked like when Michael Moorcock invented it, and GW just ripped him off. Pretty sure the symbol itself just started as a doodle.
Yep and yep. And in case you didn't know Michael Moorcock, he is a fantasy author best known for his Elric series, which deals with a multiverse fought over by order versus chaos. Elric is a rather untypical anti-hero (not in the way a hobbit is, more in the way a sickly prince with debatable morals is) and order vs. chaos is interestingly not analogous to good vs. evil. Quite worth the read.
|
"We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write "feth" on their airplanes because it's obscene!" (Colonel Kurtz in Apocalypse Now)
And you know what's funny? "feth" is actually censored on a forum about a dystopia where the nice guys are the ones who kill only millions of innocents, not billions. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/28 17:25:49
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
|
Because Terry Pratchett.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/28 19:51:14
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Dakka Veteran
Snake Mountain
|
Skylifter wrote:Yep and yep. And in case you didn't know Michael Moorcock, he is a fantasy author best known for his Elric series, which deals with a multiverse fought over by order versus chaos. Elric is a rather untypical anti-hero (not in the way a hobbit is, more in the way a sickly prince with debatable morals is) and order vs. chaos is interestingly not analogous to good vs. evil. Quite worth the read.
I always wondered about the OP's question myself, by the sounds of things these books sound like a very good read and right up my particular field of interest. I'll definetly be taking a look.
Not to hijack this from the OP but the other thing I've wondered since the release of the HH series is during many of Angrons segments in novels and audio novels, they specifically mention 'The Eigthfold Path' I always assumed this was Chaos due to the 8 pointed star etc, but does this tie in with Khorne at all, as his sacred number was also 8. Probably just a que-winky-dinky but I thought I'd ask as it's always bugged me.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/28 19:52:27
'I'm like a man with a fork, in a world of soup.'
Check out my Blog: http://rysaerinc.wordpress.com/ - Updated 26/01/2015
3DS Friend Code: Rysaer - 5129-0913-0659 |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/28 20:39:15
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Mutilatin' Mad Dok
|
That's a weird thing to associate with Angron/Khorne, as IRL it's the name of the journey to enlightenment in Buddhism. Kind of exactly the opposite.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/28 20:52:55
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Rough Rider with Boomstick
Guelph Ontario
|
So saying the number that comes after seven but before nine will summon a tzeenchian daemon?
|
Think of something clever to say. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/28 21:01:04
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Dispassionate Imperial Judge
|
Since Pratchett's Discworld started in 1983 as a parody of the sort of 'serious' fantasy Moorcock wrote in the early 60s, it's not surprising that he uses 8 as the 'number of magic' as well. GW just used the same reference point.
There was an awful lot in early WHFB and 40k that was borrowed from Moorcock (with liberal doses of Heinlein and Herbert in 40k's case)...
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/28 21:07:48
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
|
Because the core of Fantasy/40K was ripped from Michael Moorcock.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/28 21:07:49
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
|
Rysaer wrote:I always wondered about the OP's question myself, by the sounds of things these books sound like a very good read and right up my particular field of interest. I'll definetly be taking a look.
Elric isn't bad but I prefer the Castle Brass/Hawkmoon books. Might just be because I read those ones first. I would advise you not to read some of his more... psychoanalytical books unless well and truly stoned as otherwise you will give yourself a brain aneurysm. And don't read any of his books if you like female characters to be strong and independent
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/28 21:21:04
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Helpful Sophotect
|
Bludbaff wrote:That's a weird thing to associate with Angron/Khorne, as IRL it's the name of the journey to enlightenment in Buddhism. Kind of exactly the opposite.
Is it weird? Or is it maybe actually quite fitting? I know we're going off topic completely now, but Khorne isn't just the god of war, he is also the god of giving up one's self and becoming one with a higher purpose. His champions are said to have completely white eyes with no iris to signify that they have stopped judging what is right or wrong. Yes, it is very strange to compare buddhism to a fictional religion that is based on bloodshed, but there are similarities.
So, back on topic, yes, GW "robbed" quite a few people's ideas, but that was nothing uncommon in the period when WHFB and Rogue Trader were created. Basically every kind of fantasy game was based on some collection of stories, most included Tolkien, Moorcock, Lovecraft, Howard and/or similar authors amongst their sources. So I wouldn't judge GW on that, they did a fine job of creating something new, after all, even if it was inspired by others, too.
|
"We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write "feth" on their airplanes because it's obscene!" (Colonel Kurtz in Apocalypse Now)
And you know what's funny? "feth" is actually censored on a forum about a dystopia where the nice guys are the ones who kill only millions of innocents, not billions. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/28 21:35:24
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
Norway
|
It's sort of odd that I'm pointing my guns at a good guy like Perkustin, but I'm of the meaning that the originator of a thread should have a few tid-bits himself, and not just sit back and enjoy.
|
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/28 23:02:46
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Boom! Leman Russ Commander
New Zealand
|
Ah the age old argument, which part of the genre 'ripped off' some other part of a genre.
|
5000 |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/29 03:35:48
Subject: Re:Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Tough Traitorous Guardsman
|
Its a parody of bhudism, they follow the eight fold path following the four noble truths, 40k just tweaked it a little bit
|
Like the great storm of the Horus Heresy, the forces of the True Gods will descend upon the Emperor's minions. The stars will tremble at their passage and the mighty armadas of the Warmaster Abaddon will bring annihilation to a hundred worlds. Know this, for these things will come to pass. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/29 03:37:28
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
|
No it isn't, the eightfold path thing is a recent addition by ADB. Originally, the symbol was used simply because Moorcock used it for his Chaos gods, which they transferred over to Fantasy, which got imported to 40K.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/29 03:39:59
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/29 03:41:57
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine
|
I read somewhere that its supposed to represent the freedom to chose from many different paths.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/29 04:30:44
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
Norway
|
The most likely source is in fact Tarot.
|
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/29 05:13:05
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
|
text removed.
Reds8n
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/29 08:47:27
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/29 05:19:04
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
Norway
|
|
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/29 06:04:57
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
|
That's a bs qabala website, it's about as relevant/accurate as the Church of Scientology. Keep digging that hole.
What do you think a bunch of Brit gaming nerds used for inspiration? The books of Michael Moorcock, that deal with the same fantasy archetypes as their game, at the height of those books' popularity? Or an obscure doodle from a made up system of magic practiced by fat Amrican hippy chicks?
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/29 06:08:39
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/29 06:46:58
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Aspirant Tech-Adept
|
As others have GW took it from Moorcock for chaos, but the 8 point star has been around for most of recorded history. It is found in ancient astrology, Babylonian cults, etc etc.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/29 07:26:43
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
|
Those were actual 8-pointed stars, not 4 rods with arrows.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/29 08:42:05
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Hellish Haemonculus
|
TheDiscoSpider wrote:The arrows point in all directions, which I think is meant to represent all possibilities. Which is representative of pure Chaos itself; formless and ever expansive.
Pretty much this. I'm not saying it was an original Games Workshop idea, but I think that this was the idea behind marrying 'eight-pointed star' with 'mystical forces of Chaos,' regardless of who did it first, last, or better.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/29 11:30:55
Subject: Re:Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
|
|
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/29 18:23:02
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
|
TheDiscoSpider wrote:The arrows point in all directions, which I think is meant to represent all possibilities. Which is representative of pure Chaos itself; formless and ever expansive.
This right here. It does, indeed, originate with Moorecock.
The symbol of Chaos is the eight-rayed star, representing the limitless possibilities of Chaos.
The symbol of Law is a single, upward pointing arrow, defining the singular direction (to stasis) that the forces of Order represent.
|
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/29 19:42:47
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Confident Marauder Chieftain
The Frozen wastes
|
The eight winds of magic in warhammer, just got transplant to 40k along with all the other chaos stuff, of course the 8 winds is just a justification for stealing the symbols as previously said.
|
Cheers
TheDungen |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/30 12:29:47
Subject: Re:Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Stormin' Stompa
|
text removed.
Reds8n
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/30 13:38:21
Ask yourself: have you rated a gallery image today? |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/30 19:07:47
Subject: Why is the Chaos Star/Mark of chaos eight pronged?
|
 |
Slippery Scout Biker
|
Psienesis wrote: TheDiscoSpider wrote:The arrows point in all directions, which I think is meant to represent all possibilities. Which is representative of pure Chaos itself; formless and ever expansive.
This right here. It does, indeed, originate with Moorecock.
The symbol of Chaos is the eight-rayed star, representing the limitless possibilities of Chaos.
The symbol of Law is a single, upward pointing arrow, defining the singular direction (to stasis) that the forces of Order represent.
I never knew that was the symbol for law. Its basically the SM tac squad symbol.
|
|
|
 |
 |
|