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I've seen a lot of discussions here about Loganwing, and nearly all of them end with the same conclusion; that it is too expensive. Yet in nearly every discussion I've seen about Loganwing, it only talks about talking Wolfguard Terminators (which I would agree, is too expensive for anything but fluffy lists), and completely ignores the fact that wolfguard can be taken in PA. Why? PA Wolfguard are, from what I've read, some of the most cost-efficient units out there. For 184 pts you get basically 8 space marine veterans, each with a combi-weapon of your choice to deal with whatever comes your way. Put them in a drop pod, maybe add a power weapon or two, and you've got a (relatively) cheap, potent force able to vaporize whatever you need dead, be it vehicles or infantry, even TEQ. And Logan makes these suckers troops! SO so why does everyone ignore PA Loganwing and just focus on the overpriced Termies?

The second you're taking PA Loganwing you'd be better off taking Grey Hunters. It's really as simple as that.
Loganwing isn't competitive, it's just a fun way to field terminators.

 Griddlelol wrote:
The second you're taking PA Loganwing you'd be better off taking Grey Hunters. It's really as simple as that.
Loganwing isn't competitive, it's just a fun way to field terminators.

Wolf Guard are filling a different role to GH. GH can't load up on special weapons and come out of a Drop Pod for a nasty alpha strike, nor can they mix in terminators to soak up fire. Also, Logan is a big bag of fun tricks. GH provide numbers and efficiency, WG pay a bit more for flexibility. No reason you can't use both.

My foot Loganwing had a good run in 5th (mixing termies and PA dudes plus Long Fangs for maximum missile launchers). In 6th, they didn't have the numbers so you throw in an IG blob, GH or put everything in Pods.

PA wolfguards in drop pods with combi weapons is a nice little army list. I do agree any form of it is not competitive unless you're at 2k points so your list doesn't get punished by all the upgrade points. Once you hit 2k it can be really good. 23pts per model and just going ape nuts with combi in pods you can bring a pod with any tool for the job. a pod full of combi-flamers. melta, or plasma. It's really a swiss army knife type of army.

 Chumbalaya wrote:


Wolf Guard are filling a different role to GH. GH can't load up on special weapons and come out of a Drop Pod for a nasty alpha strike

No, they're not mutually exclusive, but if you take Logan you better be making use of those 275pts and bring all WG troops. Why not just bring PA WG as Elites for the alpha strike then load up on efficient troops rather than bringing Logan?

nor can they mix in terminators to soak up fire.

Well they can take TDAWG. So yeah, they can.

 Griddlelol wrote:
Why not just bring PA WG as Elites for the alpha strike then load up on efficient troops rather than bringing Logan?

Wolfguard with storm bolters or combi-weapons ARE efficient troops.

Hulksmash, amongst others, has advocated the 4 power armor/stormbolter and 1 cyclone terminator unit as a good Troops choice.

I'm not convinced that paying a 275pt tax is worth it. I'm not arguing that WG aren't good. That'd be silly. I'm arguing that taking Logan drastically decreases their efficiency in comparison to GHs.

Logan works well in a power armor list for Drop Wolves. If it were my show, I'd stick him in a squad of Long Fangs with Multimeltas to give them relentless. Pop down, Multi-melt two things with split fire, then next turn break him off and multi-melt more, or accept the charge and facepunch with Logan.

It seems like it'd be a fun army to play. Along with a beefy unit of Thunderwolf Cav, you really can screw with your opponent's targeting priority. Do I want to target Logan and the Long Fangs, the big unit of Wolf Guard with the combi weapons, or the TWC? Sprinkle in Wolfguard with Storm Bolters and CMLs to taste along with 2 squads of ML Long Fangs.

How many pods would you run? What kinda combis? This army probably has some potential. Very resistant to giving up First Blood too, compared with the benefit you get.


If I remember correctly, the consensus is that they're all Characters. So it may be worth throwing a few Storm Shields into the mix for Look Out Sir! rolls. You can LOS the AP2 fire onto the Storm Shields and the AP3 fire onto the bro with the Terminator Armor and CML. Sounds like a pretty sneaky list choice, I dig it.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

If I remember correctly, the consensus is that they're all Characters.

Wolfguard are never characters in units of Wolfguard.

I think it's still totally doable but I agree that with the body heavy edition you need a plan going in. Something like:

Logan
Rune Priest

4xWolfguard Unit
5 PA WG w/Combi-Weapon
2 TA WG w/Combi-Weapon
Drop Pod

1xWolfguard Unit
5 PA WG w/Combi-Weapon
1 TA WG w/Combi-Weapon
1 TA WG
Drop Pod

Company Command Squad

Blob w/4 Squads w/Autocannons and 3 Axes.

That's a solid amount of models (88 not including vehicles) that have the ability to weather a shooty phase and respond in kind (logan blob) as well as the ability to cripple your opponent on turn 1 with the right combi-weapon mix. I think it has potential but my old walking list would not work in 6th. Not enough depth with people shifting to model heavy armies.

The problem is 275 for logan... that and the fact that WG termies are not that much more expensive than WG w combi-weapons...
So as an experiment do 2 lists...

1850- Logan = 1575...

5 Drop pods = 175 so 1400 points for army...

25 termies w combi-weapon and wolf claw = 43 x 25 = 1075....

6 longfangs w 2 LC & 3 mm 160 + dp 35 195

alternative-
logan 1575
6 drop pods 1365
6 Long fangs w 2 lC & 3 MM 1205
40 wg w combi-melta 1120

So my choice is 40+ WG with combi-weapons or 25 terminators with combi-weapons...

 Hulksmash wrote:
I think it's still totally doable but I agree that with the body heavy edition you need a plan going in.

Apparently you only need to say his name once and he appears. Hulksmash is more powerful than Hastur.

Your numbers are off for the WG. 40 WG with combi's is 920. I was started to point out that you had as many combi's as I did but no blob squad but now we know why

I think the 25 marines, 10 terminators and a 4-squad blob is pretty solid. But if you wanna drop the blob then I'd probably go the PA route with a single termie w/a chainfist in the unit.

@Darknesseternal

I'm bored at work and saw the thread title and was like...."self, remember when you used to run PA Loganwing?" I was like "self, yeah, I do, I should check that out."

And then I saw my name so I had to actually post

I am a huge fan of a squad of WG with Plasma Pistols (2 of them) in a drop pod. I so far only have 4 built, but plan on running a squad of 10. Yes, that is 20 Plasma shots, more points than I would like to admit, and i will probably lose a model or two from Gets Hot! However I think it is just to stupidly cool and will make people think twice about their deployment.

I have run the squad once so far. It dropped down and killed my opponents warlord (the ig guy with a ton of orders per turn), and went on to prevent my opponent from using his quad gun all game. Even with only 4 models it was a stupid amount of plasma, and the drop pod allowed me to get them exactly where I wanted them.

I went fluffy, I have all sorts combinations, Paired Wolf Claws, Thunder Hammer/Storm Bolter, Plasma Pistol/Power Sword and even a Frost Blade/Storm Shield, out of drop pod. It’s a lot of points, but they are a lot of fun.

 Hulksmash wrote:

Blob

Ah the crutch. Should have guessed. I suppose anything can be moderately competitive if you throw in a blob of guard to help out.
It might be worth a test in my next few games. I got given a metal Logan model by a buddy and would be a nice change to the usual space wolf lists. Although I don't like relying on the blob, especially as just about everyone brings one and brings some sort of counter to one too.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Your numbers are off for the WG. 40 WG with combi's is 920. I was started to point out that you had as many combi's as I did but no blob squad but now we know why

I think the 25 marines, 10 terminators and a 4-squad blob is pretty solid. But if you wanna drop the blob then I'd probably go the PA route with a single termie w/a chainfist in the unit.

@Darknesseternal

I'm bored at work and saw the thread title and was like...."self, remember when you used to run PA Loganwing?" I was like "self, yeah, I do, I should check that out."

And then I saw my name so I had to actually post

No codex so I was guessing WG with combi-weapon was 28... so x 40 1120. The point is still true...

40 3+ save with 1 shot meltas... or 25 2+/5++ saves with 1 shot meltas and wolf claws... to me it is an easy choice... screw the power armor. If we would be talking around 3 to 1 difference in numbers perhaps PA WG but at 2 to 1 or less, give me the terminators.

It is almost 2:1. Wolf claws and combi-gun in terminator armor is 43. Power armor and combi-gun is 23.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
It is almost 2:1. Wolf claws and combi-gun in terminator armor is 43. Power armor and combi-gun is 23.

Wolf Guard Terminator wth a Combi-Weapon and a Power Weapon is 38
Wolf Guard with a Power Weapon and Combi-Weapon is 33

 Anpu42 wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
It is almost 2:1. Wolf claws and combi-gun in terminator armor is 43. Power armor and combi-gun is 23.

Wolf Guard Terminator wth a Combi-Weapon and a Power Weapon is 38
Wolf Guard with a Power Weapon and Combi-Weapon is 33

but we arent taking the power weapon on the lame power armor guys.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I've seen a lot of discussions here about Loganwing, and nearly all of them end with the same conclusion; that it is too expensive. Yet in nearly every discussion I've seen about Loganwing, it only talks about talking Wolfguard Terminators (which I would agree, is too expensive for anything but fluffy lists), and completely ignores the fact that wolfguard can be taken in PA. Why? PA Wolfguard are, from what I've read, some of the most cost-efficient units out there. For 184 pts you get basically 8 space marine veterans, each with a combi-weapon of your choice to deal with whatever comes your way. Put them in a drop pod, maybe add a power weapon or two, and you've got a (relatively) cheap, potent force able to vaporize whatever you need dead, be it vehicles or infantry, even TEQ. And Logan makes these suckers troops! SO so why does everyone ignore PA Loganwing and just focus on the overpriced Termies?

in 6th you really have to mix PA and TDA to get any sort of positive effect. The PA guys are cheap and can have combi bolters for very little. It is great but they really suffer in combat. They are no better than GH if you give them a bolter. They also die like 13 point chump marines in shooting. Adding in 2-3 TDA per squad makes them much much more resilient and with the basically free power weapon you get much more combat potential. The heavy weapon possibilities are also interesting.

I think he's trying to say that you don't need to take an expensive CC weapon like wolf claws on the TA models anymore because a "Power Weapon" can be either an Axe, Sword or Staff for free. It makes the 33 point TA models a little bit more flexible and interesting, kinda like their Chaos counterparts, but with none of the disadvantages.

Oh and they are also troops.

TAKE THAT CHAOS! The only saving grace is Abby will still take Logan's lunch money.

I guess I am to much of a “Fluffy” Player. This is one of my Powered Armored Wolf Guard. I know it’s not “Competitive”, but it fits “Individuality” of the Wolf Guard. And it’s all WYSIWYG

Wolf Guard Pack, 541 pts
1x Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Melta Bombs; Frost Blade x1; Storm Shield x1)
1x Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Plasma Pistol x1; Power Fist x1)
1x Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Melta Bombs; Bolt Pistol; Frost Blade x1)
1x Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Storm Shield x1; Thunder Hammer x1)
1x Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Storm Bolter x1; Thunder Hammer x1)
1x Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Power Fist x1; Storm Bolter x1)
1x Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Bolt Pistol x1; Frost Axe x1)
1x Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Power Fist x1; Wolf Claw x1)
1x Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Power Maul x1; Assault Cannon x1)
1x Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Power Fist x1; Assault Cannon x1)
Usually I would drop them in a Crusader with Logan or Trade out one the Assault Cannons with a Cyclone and then pass him off to a Long Fang Pack and the shove them in a Drop Pod.


Though I am thinking of dropping one for a MotW with 2 Plasma Pistols

 Anpu42 wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
It is almost 2:1. Wolf claws and combi-gun in terminator armor is 43. Power armor and combi-gun is 23.

Wolf Guard Terminator wth a Combi-Weapon and a Power Weapon is 38
Wolf Guard with a Power Weapon and Combi-Weapon is 33

Read the post before mine.