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The new book is going to be available at GenCon and through their website during the convention. Not sure when it's being released to retailers though, but I want to say October

I really really really like that witchling.

A lot.

 cincydooley wrote:
I really really really like that witchling.

A lot.

Me too. It gives me a lot of hope for the death marshals.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Vilegrimm wrote:
And the new rules are coming in August, not in 6 months,

This was announced in May. And I don't think, the new rulebooks will be in stores before November.

I do believe they'll be at Gencon.

They are currently talking a September general release for the new edition rulebook, but that can be subject to change.

-Vilegrimm

They still putting the GenCon exclusive figures on their web store so the rest of us can buy some?

 Breotan wrote:
They still putting the GenCon exclusive figures on their web store so the rest of us can buy some?

As far as I've heard, yes.

Vile, Nix has been vocal because if you look at his track record, and all that he's done for Wyrd and with Malifaux, it's a pretty abrupt thing to see him turn around and decry the actions of the company. The reason why I linked his blog is because while I love Malifaux, and still try to get in a few games a month at my store, he's voicing several concerns I've had/experienced with the new system. I'll continue to play Malifaux 1.5 as long as I can because I've bought the models, I've bought the books (I even went out of my way to find an original Malifaux Rulebook just because I wanted it in my collection), and I've organized events. Hell I'm running an achievement league the weekend after GenCon because I still enjoy the game.

To quote RiTides (about a very similar topic, though not related to Wyrd), the reason why Henchmen were forgetting that Malifaux isn't their game has something to do with the idea that "the pressure is on the creators to make such an awesome gaming environment that the fans Enjoy it, and thus naturally want to bring in new players, paint their models, etc!" As Henchmen, this is their first duty, to promote Malifaux in a fun and positive way to show people why it's a great world and a great universe. This requires the game to be something that Henchmen can be enthusiastic about. The Henchmen that are having a hard time doing this aren't bad people, nor are they necessarily a pox upon the community but they can be, and that's where the company comes in and says, "We've noticed that plenty of you aren't happy with x, y, and z, what can we do (besides changing everything back) to help alleviate stress, build enthusiasm, and make this game fun again for you. Now it does appear that most of the people are happy with the changes, which is a good thing for Wyrd as it allows them to figure out if those that are disliking the changes are able to be happy, or are they an outlier that won't be appeased. I'm not saying this is a major issue with Wyrd, they're a good company from what I have experienced, there are just things with M2E that I as a player and gamer don't like.

I will always recommend people look into Malifaux, it's a fantastic world, the models look awesome and it has an interesting set of mechanics. There are just pieces that I can't recommend because they're pieces that don't sit well with me, and these pieces are things that Nix was able to voice better than I can.

Also, M2E was slated for October 2013 if I remember correctly, that's less than 6 months from the announcement (as I have a November birthday, May is 6 months before that ).

It was inevitable-

the faction growth and a few of the teams need the expanded changes, not to mention its about time to start talking about larger scale games that are going to be able to play. Much as in how Warmahordes evolved, you see the same sort of thing going on here.

"This requires the game to be something that Henchmen can be enthusiastic about. The Henchmen that are having a hard time doing this aren't bad people, nor are they necessarily a pox upon the community but they can be, and that's where the company comes in and says, "We've noticed that plenty of you aren't happy with x, y, and z, what can we do (besides changing everything back) to help alleviate stress, build enthusiasm, and make this game fun again for you. Now it does appear that most of the people are happy with the changes, which is a good thing for Wyrd as it allows them to figure out if those that are disliking the changes are able to be happy, or are they an outlier that won't be appeased. I'm not saying this is a major issue with Wyrd, they're a good company from what I have experienced, there are just things with M2E that I as a player and gamer don't like."

This is a common sentiment as well. The companies issue is to not change too much too fast, or to be more commutative and keep players and the general information flow going.

The result if not done so is akin to what you are seeing with GW's bang up job of community reverse Midas touch relations.

 Alfndrate wrote:
Vile, Nix has been vocal because if you look at his track record, and all that he's done for Wyrd and with Malifaux, it's a pretty abrupt thing to see him turn around and decry the actions of the company. The reason why I linked his blog is because while I love Malifaux, and still try to get in a few games a month at my store, he's voicing several concerns I've had/experienced with the new system. I'll continue to play Malifaux 1.5 as long as I can because I've bought the models, I've bought the books (I even went out of my way to find an original Malifaux Rulebook just because I wanted it in my collection), and I've organized events. Hell I'm running an achievement league the weekend after GenCon because I still enjoy the game.

I have no problem with him voicing his concerns in regards to the new system; I'm not all rosy-glowy with everything myself. However, the article linked says nothing about those concerns, and deals more with his idea that Malifaux 2nd Edition isn't being as well received as we are being lead to believe. I see no argument about any changed stats or mechanics, and many suppositions and extrapolations based on the forums that M2E is not doing well. Finally, he links Eric J's blog post about playtesting... which apparently has been taking out of context by the "community-at-large." Again, nothing on the issues he was concerned about, just more "look how Wyrd seems to treat people."

Perhaps Nix has brought these concerns of his up elsewhere in a nice, concise and clear manner; perhaps not. But the linked article that he wrote does nothing to show me that, and instead (and I could be heavily opinionated too, just as Nix said in his article) I see someone who has quit the game, but is still hanging around and combing the forums for proof that he was right and more people are upset about the new Malifaux than happy. The overall article feels to me like a snide shot at the current higher-ups at Wyrd, that's all.

-Vilegrimm

I didn't link to a specific article, I linked to his entire blog... From mid-May/early June until the most recent article on his blog, everything has been about his life, his commissions, OR his thoughts on perceived issues with M2E. I'd go and quote distinct and direct articles, but blogspot is workblocked... lemme see if I can grab a quote via my phone. I can't grab the link atm but it was at the beginning of June. This article goes back to that idea that game creators need to create an environment in which people want to promote their games. If you are a prominent member (or heck even just a henchman in this case) of a gaming community, and you're told point blank that not only is your input not appreciated, but it's hindering the entire processing of tweaking the game, it can make for a very unfriendly environment, which sucks. I know this from first hand experience, fans of your game don't like being told, "We're not listening to your feedback." I realize that Malifaux is Wyrd's game and the direction it goes is entirely up to Wyrd, just like Brushfire and Endless: Fantasy Tactics' direction(s) are up to On the Lamb Games. As a game designer you want to move the game in such a way that you will bring in more people that you can lose when looking at a new edition. Ideally you'd rather grow your game without losing players that way you don't have to "replace" them, but that's a bit of a pipe dream.


Edit: On to some positivity? (Or not, depending on your point of view D: ). The witchling stalker with the base on the sprue does not seem to be the norm
Nathan Caroland said the following:

Nathan Caroland wrote:That's a promo miniature being given away in a magazine - so the sprue layout as well as the included base aren't the norm.

 Alfndrate wrote:
On to some positivity? (Or not, depending on your point of view D: ). The witchling stalker with the base on the sprue does not seem to be the norm
Nathan Caroland said the following:

Nathan Caroland wrote:That's a promo miniature being given away in a magazine - so the sprue layout as well as the included base aren't the norm.

Hmm...That would mean there will probably be many inexpensive Witchling Stalkers to be had in the future...

 Alfndrate wrote:
I didn't link to a specific article, I linked to his entire blog... From mid-May/early June until the most recent article on his blog, everything has been about his life, his commissions, OR his thoughts on perceived issues with M2E.

ah, okay, gotcha, and sorry for being obtuse on this. I've gone through a bunch of his posts and honestly, though he does have a few points, I really can't see the reasoning for his quitting, and now dissing the higher ups at Wyrd (see his comment about being a "liar"... did he actually read Eric's blog about playtesting?) To be honest, this is looking more like an ego/point-of-view clash between two individuals, with neither one giving in until the inevitable happened. I do feel for him, losing his community, et. al, but currently we only have his side of the story to go by, and no one at Wyrd is talking about what may have occurred during playtesting. Was he being helpful, rational and well spoken, or was he rambling, psychotic and nerd-raging because his favorite Master got "dumbed down?" We really don't know, which is why I take what he has to say about it all with a grain of salt...

However, it's probably time to give that discussion a rest, and move on to something else of interest. I was saddened to hear that the Witchling Stalker was done for a magazine, and possibly/probably won't be in the Crew box. Maybe we can convince them to keep the mold for a pack o' 3 Stalkers? They're 1/3rd of the way there!

The decent quality it shows is also a good sign that their plastics are developing nicely; makes me look forward to seeing what comes next.

Finally, as an aside: did they ever post the rules for Avatars yet? I can't recall seeing them anywhere...

-Vilegrimm

Avatar rules aren't going to be in the first wave of Mv2, I believe.

Yeah, I didn't recall reading them, but there is a reference in the Beta rules about Avatars, and read their full rules on p.@@... which made me wonder if the rules at least will be in Book 1.

-Vilegrimm

Announced 30th April, general release in October, will arrive in EU stores October-November, pretty close to 6 months to me.

 Vilegrimm wrote:
However, it's probably time to give that discussion a rest, and move on to something else of interest. I was saddened to hear that the Witchling Stalker was done for a magazine, and possibly/probably won't be in the Crew box. Maybe we can convince them to keep the mold for a pack o' 3 Stalkers? They're 1/3rd of the way there!

It's probably gonna be in Ravage Magazine. Wyrd is a sponsor from what I can tell, so it'd probably be a good marketing move for them to ship CMON a bunch of witching stalkers to throw in with the magazine so that Ravage gets the bump by people wanting to buy it (for the mini), and Wyrd opens their doors to people wanting to see what game the Witchling Stalker goes to (i.e. Ravage Subscribers that don't play Malifaux).

Which idk how well that will work for CMON, I still haven't gotten my issue 8 of the magazine.

 Absolutionis wrote:
Avatar rules aren't going to be in the first wave of Mv2, I believe.

Maybe they were removed or shuffled to Book 2, but I definitely read some new Avatar rules in one of the updates. They also described it in some podcasts, it's now a card flipping mechanic, and is a two way shift rather than one way (when the avatar 'dies' the master returns).

 Forar wrote:

 Absolutionis wrote:
Avatar rules aren't going to be in the first wave of Mv2, I believe.

Maybe they were removed or shuffled to Book 2, but I definitely read some new Avatar rules in one of the updates. They also described it in some podcasts, it's now a card flipping mechanic, and is a two way shift rather than one way (when the avatar 'dies' the master returns).

PM incoming.

Seriously. The Avatar rules were not in the open playtest. Though, everything is pointing towards the rules being released in the forthcoming book

At a glance, no they weren't, but I believe Justin and Mack (?) went over them on some podcasts. There was definitely a forum thread about it and everything.

But we never got any avatars to work with, so even knowing the base mechanics doesn't really give us much to work with, considering how the way they manifest and are used has changed so significantly.

Edit: http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?42024-Malifaux-2-0-Through-the-breach-transcript-highlights

Avatars all manifest in the same way now, and can turn back later in the game as they take damage. Possibly they may only be used in 40SS games - not confirmed.

Does anyone have a good summary for how the card stack works with the new Avatar summoning?
With the caveat that it's subject to change:

Every time the master activates, you flip a card. You may cheat this card. It is removed from the deck completely and put into a Manifest Stack. When that stack reaches a total equal to a certain target number (varies by master), the master Manifests. Then, every turn, one CARD is removed from that stack and put back into the deck. When the stack is empty, the master reverts to normal form.

So you can cheat lower cards to get them out of your deck and delay manifesting, but have it last longer once you're up. Or, you can throw high cards at it, and manifest quickly, but burn out faster as well. They've mentioned they think being able to remove the black Joker from your deck may be too powerful and may have to have some specific rule for it, but were unsure what that rule would be at this point.

And that's just from a cursory search.

Edited to include more info because, unless I'm mistaken, some people seem to think I'm potentially leaking state secrets.

This stuff is known.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Likewise, I have played games with war-gear, so it isn't the concept that I dislike... I dislike it in Malifaux. In my opinion, Masters didn't need their personalities relegated to a system that makes the game take longer to set up. I have played a bunch of 2.0, and so has my club... and it really just doesn't feel like the system has any place in Malifaux.

Though the first game or two we played with the new rules took a bit longer to set up, once we got the hang of the system the set up time for 2E actually ended up being about the same as in 1E. You have upgrades you can purchase, but there really aren't a lot of them, and you're now spending much less time selecting schemes, so it more or less balanced out for us.

Even if it does take you longer to pick which upgrades you like, that should only be two or three minutes at most once you've adjusted to the new rules. It's really not a very time-intensive process, and it still goes much faster than waiting for someone to make up a 40k army list.

Wait people actually spent time on picking schemes? I'd generally choose the faction or master specific scheme and frame for murder, holdout, eye for an eye, and a handful of other schemes depending on who my master was.

Master Specific? Faction Specific?

Clearly *somebody* doesn't play Guild. :-P

... our M/F schemes suck.

 Forar wrote:
Master Specific? Faction Specific?

Clearly *somebody* doesn't play Guild. :-P

... our M/F schemes suck.

I do Raid (or w/e one that you need to have a model on their side of the board) when I play my Lucius crew, which is generally LadyJ, Lucius, 3 Riflemen, Guild Guard Captain, Guild Guard, and w/e else I can fit in there. I'd like more guards, but that ain't happening atm .

Edit: And I mostly play Neverborn, so I take Kidnap when I can. Eye for an Eye is next to impossible for me to get with my Pandora crew, it's too dang survivable. Though that has been reduced from what I saw in M2E (a shame, but I know people didn't like playing against her )

Looking at the list of top 5 TTG lines posted by Cyporean (in the warhammer fantasy thread) it seems Malifaux was at No5 for 2010,11 & 12

Top 5 Non-Collectible Miniature Lines – Spring 2013
Title | Publisher
#1 Warhammer 40k | Games Workshop
#2 Warmachine | Privateer Press
#3 Star Wars X-Wing Miniatures | Fantasy Flight Games
#4 Warhammer Fantasy | Games Workshop
# 5 Hordes | Privateer Press

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/26216.html

Top 5 Non-Collectible Miniature Lines – Spring 2012
Title | Publisher
#1 Warhammer 40k | Games Workshop
#2 Warmachine | Privateer Press
#3 Warhammer Fantasy | Games Workshop
#4 Hordes | Privateer Press
#5 Malifaux | Wyrd Miniatures

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/23501.html

Top 5 Non-Collectible Miniature Lines – Q2 2011
Title | Publisher
#1 Warhammer 40k | Games Workshop
#2 Warmachine | Privateer Press
#3 Warhammer Fantasy | Games Workshop
#4 Hordes | Privateer Press
#5 Malifaux | Wyrd Miniatures

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/20744.html

Top 5 Non-Collectible Miniature Lines – Q2 2010
Title | Publisher
#1 Warhammer 40k | Games Workshop
#2 Warmachine | Privateer Press
#3 Warhammer Fantasy | Games Workshop
#4 Hordes | Privateer Press
#5 Malifaux | Wyrd Miniatures

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/18046.html

Top 5 Non-Collectible Miniature Lines – Q2 2009
Title | Publisher
#1 Warhammer 40k | Games Workshop
#2 Warmachine | Privateer Press
#3 Hordes | Privateer Press
#3 Warhammer Fantasy | Games Workshop
#5 Dark Heaven | Reaper Miniatures

but dropped out of the top five this year with X-wing crashing in at No3

I wonder whether Malifaux sales numbers slipped (in which case there was a real need for this new version) or if they just held pace ?

Well X-Wing is certainly something special and unique with only a dozen products, but I doubt that with no rulebook for several months and the confusion about what is coming, Malifaux will get enough sales to jump into top 5 again, at least not before end of the year.

They also need to stop pretending Warmachine and Hordes are different games.

Bossk_Hogg wrote:
They also need to stop pretending Warmachine and Hordes are different games.

Which if they were not registered as two different games they may well be. Alas they are different. As has been said by PP many times

I like that witchling stalker. Certainly better looking than the rest of the plastics

It'd be interesting if the list were just condensed down to the parent companies in general. Games Workshop, Privateer Press, 3, 4 and 5.

Also, I've seen similar lists around, but have heard the numbers are suspect, as in not necessarily based on hard numbers. Don't get me wrong, I'm not disputing that some flavour of Warhammer is the biggest game around, but that the companies in question don't release hard numbers for an exacting comparison or anything, so it's based off a smaller dataset (some distributors? Some shops? Gut feeling?).

That aside, I am curious to see how the community responds to 2.0. And I don't just mean the heated arguments on the forums, but in a 'voting with ones wallet' sense. How well the re-released crews sell, the new book, the decks of stat cards, etc.