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What a fabricated controversy...

When Malifaux remade many of the masters into their second editions' alternate sculpts, they didn't obsolete the original sculpts by disallowing them. Plus, I've been to several tournaments where people ran minion Hamelin and avatar Hamelin on a 30mm base and treated it as Master Hamelin; this was allowed (and encouraged because the official Master Hamelin is ugly). Then again, it wasn't a Wyrd-sponsored event.

Plus, it's been mentioned several times that they'll make the Mv2 cards available for purchase separately. Why would they offer such a thing if they didn't plan to allow metal sculpts of previous models.

Nothing is being obsoleted and disallowed, and any rumors of such happening is just sensationalist.

Let's whine about that bridge when and if we come to it.

The old metal sculpts will remain perfectly tournament legal.

Minion Misaki and minion Hamelin have not received stats in 2.0 (and won't) because they were upgraded to masters. However, their old metal sculpts will be tournament legal proxies for their master version (in 2.0, not in 1.5 as they have stats in 1.5).

And faction decks of stat cards will be available.

 Absolutionis wrote:
What a fabricated controversy...

That's pretty much my take on it. Telling you to essentially throw out all your old models is what WizKids tried to do MageKnight, MechWarrior, etc. and look where it got them.

I've never said that you won't be able to use your old models, I said that you won't be able to use Hamelin, Rat Catcher, and Misaki, warmaiden because those models statcards/unit entries are being retired, (confirmed by a Wyrd employee on this very page). I said I have to rebuy my crews if I like them. Technically Oz, I mispoke and you're right it should have been "I choose to rebuy" my crews, which sucks because I like the looks of the art and the plastic sculpts of these models but I'd rather use them for Malifaux 1.5 than M2E. New sculpts (when they don't look terrible) are NEVER a bad thing. Jesus everyone is taking this way too seriously. I was simply answering Elemental's question about the proxying rule.

So since this thread has the eye of Wyrd atm... I've got some questions.
1) Since sculpts like minion Hamelin and Misaki are going to be acceptable proxies for their master versions, does this mean that the Governor's Decree rules are changing to match up with the Gaining Grounds rules?
2) How are faction decks being distributed, and how many "extras" can we expect in a pack? Like Stitched together are Rare 3 (don't remember if this is changing in M2E), will there be 3 Stitched Together stat cards in the faction decks?
3) What's the pricing going to look like on these faction decks? Will they be similar in size and price to PP's faction decks, will they be slimmer and cheaper? Plastic, or paper? Boxers or briefs?

After recently completing the Resser faction, I'm kinda hoping the re-sculpts arn't TOO awesome!

I was looking forward to stating a new Faction in M2E and just adding any newbies to the Ressers. . . . That just won't happen if I feel the need to re buy most (if not all) the Resurrectionists!

 Emperors_Champion wrote:
After recently completing the Resser faction, I'm kinda hoping the re-sculpts arn't TOO awesome!

I was looking forward to stating a new Faction in M2E and just adding any newbies to the Ressers. . . . That just won't happen if I feel the need to re buy most (if not all) the Resurrectionists!

I know! I'm just a Hoarcat Pride away from owning all the Book 1 Arcanists...

Please make a better gaki sculpt, please make a better gaki sculpt, please make a better gaki sculpt....

Here's something Wyrd could do in good-faith, to undo much of my and my group's loathing of V2.0....

Considering I was responsible for getting four players into the game in the last six months, all of whom have spent heavily, how about miming what the Flames of War folks did, and offering a free/at-cost trade up of your rules books?

I get looked at by every one of those players whom I brought into the game... who dropped $50 or more on books alone, and who now are being told those books are worthless aside from fluff.

That would go a long, long way, to changing my attitude, which at present is still "leave Wyrd, leave the game"

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
snip

While I don't see this happening, I'd love to see this. Though I'd totally be okay if they did it on a Rules Manual basis. Trade in your Malifaux 1st Ed Rules Manual (the little 15 dollar book) and get M2E's rules manual.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Here's something Wyrd could do in good-faith, to undo much of my and my group's loathing of V2.0....

Considering I was responsible for getting four players into the game in the last six months, all of whom have spent heavily, how about miming what the Flames of War folks did, and offering a free/at-cost trade up of your rules books?

I get looked at by every one of those players whom I brought into the game... who dropped $50 or more on books alone, and who now are being told those books are worthless aside from fluff.

That would go a long, long way, to changing my attitude, which at present is still "leave Wyrd, leave the game"

I could have sworn that I heard that they were going to do something like that. Hopefully at least they'll do a free pdf like they did before.

 bbb wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I could have sworn that I heard that they were going to do something like that. Hopefully at least they'll do a free pdf like they did before.

I hope you can find that! I already expect to purchase a new rulebook, but if Wyrd could make it easier on my wallet that would be fantastic!

Yeah I bought the 1.5 mini rulebook, but have yet to really use it, so a discount would be nice, otherwise I have a bunch of books which have nice fluff, but no real functional use otherwise.

I really don't see that happening.

It would be nice but tbh I think because that they have been so open with the fact there is a new version coming is actually part of the problem.

Don't get me wrong, I loved seeing how they opened up the forum to the beta testing and that they seemed to have taken a lot of peoples feedback and suggestions and put them to use.

However that has in turn led people to begrudge buying anything new or more annoying, new players buying the rulebooks only to find out they're only valid for a few months.

It's really just a matter of inconveinent timing for some people and it's only cause we know (as in, really know, not just rumors) it's all coming. Let's face it, Wyrd couldn't possibly put out a world wide announcement asking people not to buy their stuff for 6 months or so! I'm sure they knew that they would face a lot of issues with a replacement version but they obviously felt the need to do it to progress their business!

Plus, it's not like a certain other slightly more famous company who tell their customers diddley squat and would fleece a 9 year old out of 50 quid or so the day before a new edition got unpacked onto the store shelf! But that's off topic!

 Emperors_Champion wrote:
It would be nice but tbh I think because that they have been so open with the fact there is a new version coming is actually part of the problem.

Don't get me wrong, I loved seeing how they opened up the forum to the beta testing and that they seemed to have taken a lot of peoples feedback and suggestions and put them to use.

However that has in turn led people to begrudge buying anything new or more annoying, new players buying the rulebooks only to find out they're only valid for a few months.

It's really just a matter of inconveinent timing for some people and it's only cause we know (as in, really know, not just rumors) it's all coming. Let's face it, Wyrd couldn't possibly put out a world wide announcement asking people not to buy their stuff for 6 months or so! I'm sure they knew that they would face a lot of issues with a replacement version but they obviously felt the need to do it to progress their business!

Plus, it's not like a certain other slightly more famous company who tell their customers diddley squat and would fleece a 9 year old out of 50 quid or so the day before a new edition got unpacked onto the store shelf! But that's off topic!

It actually spurred me on to pick up some more things since I wanted to make sure I could still get the metal version. After the new plastics are released I'd think the prices for the old models would drop on the secondary market, but there were a few models I just wanted to make sure I had. I know I'm in the minority, though.

Did people really have this much of a negative reaction when Warmachine MkII came out?

Some probably did. I'm coming from $75.00 rulebook, $50 codex land, so perhaps my perception is skewed, but having to replace a $35 rulebook seems not so bad.

 Absolutionis wrote:
Did people really have this much of a negative reaction when Warmachine MkII came out?

No idea, MkII was released before I started wargaming.

Again, I don't care if I have to purchase a new rulebook as I expect to have to purchase one. If they have in a trade in program, bonus!

I think the biggest thing I'd rather see at release is a rules manual. I beat the hell out of my current one, and it's still fine. I rarely crack open my Book 1 because it's out of print (the original book, not the 1.5 re-release from GenCon last year).

 Valhallan42nd wrote:
Some probably did. I'm coming from $75.00 rulebook, $50 codex land, so perhaps my perception is skewed, but having to replace a $35 rulebook seems not so bad.

Well, 1 rulebook in August/October, a second one around Dec/Jan I believe, two decks of stat cards (first round of Book 1, then faction decks with book 2, possibly more for those who play more than one faction regularly). Do it during Gencon and you add paying full MSRP onto significant (read: $28-33) S&H, plus the cost of the deck (said to be "affordable" but no actual price that I've seen yet) and it starts to add up pretty quickly just to keep up with the edition itself.

Plus the new figures, but that goes without saying, and I would've expected new figures whether it was 2.0 or simply book 5.

The advantage to the Book 1 deck is that I could feasibly buy the deck and split the cost (if it's $10+, otherwise I probably wouldn't care) and give cards I don't need to friends who do. Could feasibly hook up my entire crew with 2 decks, as there isn't a ton of overlap in factions.

Once they go to flat out faction decks, however, it's pretty much every man/woman for themselves.

I do love the mini rules manual, hopefully another version of that is produced.

In case anyone was worried about the minions in the starter boxes only being in the starter box, there is a picture of the ice gamin box on ericj's twitter. The only thng this doesn't answer is if the masters come in a separate box. I would hope so, or even a master and totem combo.

He also has the art up for the gremlin arsenal box (wave 1) which is the name for the card boxes.

 Absolutionis wrote:
Did people really have this much of a negative reaction when Warmachine MkII came out?

Yes, the sky was falling.

 Cyporiean wrote:

 Absolutionis wrote:
Did people really have this much of a negative reaction when Warmachine MkII came out?

Yes, the sky was falling.

Though Mk1 now seems to be almost entirely forgotten.

 Alfndrate wrote:
In case anyone was worried about the minions in the starter boxes only being in the starter box, there is a picture of the ice gamin box on ericj's twitter. The only thng this doesn't answer is if the masters come in a separate box. I would hope so, or even a master and totem combo.

He also has the art up for the gremlin arsenal box (wave 1) which is the name for the card boxes.

As an update to this, I asked ericj if they would be releasing the sum of the boxes's parts separately, like Rasputina purchasable outside of the starter, and the reply I got was this:
"Not all models will be available separately from their starter box"

Also some more artwork for people interested.
Arsenal Box for Neverborn and Gremlins



and Ice Gamin box

 Alfndrate wrote:
I've never said that you won't be able to use your old models, I said that you won't be able to use Hamelin, Rat Catcher, and Misaki, warmaiden because those models statcards/unit entries are being retired, (confirmed by a Wyrd employee on this very page). I said I have to rebuy my crews if I like them. Technically Oz, I mispoke and you're right it should have been "I choose to rebuy" my crews, which sucks because I like the looks of the art and the plastic sculpts of these models but I'd rather use them for Malifaux 1.5 than M2E. New sculpts (when they don't look terrible) are NEVER a bad thing. Jesus everyone is taking this way too seriously. I was simply answering Elemental's question about the proxying rule.

So since this thread has the eye of Wyrd atm... I've got some questions.
1) Since sculpts like minion Hamelin and Misaki are going to be acceptable proxies for their master versions, does this mean that the Governor's Decree rules are changing to match up with the Gaining Grounds rules?
2) How are faction decks being distributed, and how many "extras" can we expect in a pack? Like Stitched together are Rare 3 (don't remember if this is changing in M2E), will there be 3 Stitched Together stat cards in the faction decks?
3) What's the pricing going to look like on these faction decks? Will they be similar in size and price to PP's faction decks, will they be slimmer and cheaper? Plastic, or paper? Boxers or briefs?

Well, looks like Eric handled it, but...

1) Yes, the Governor's Decree and Gaining Grounds tournament rules will be changing. I aim to have new documents released by next January when M2E is officially tournament legal. I will likely make a specific note about Hamelin and Misaki (I say likely simply because I'm not certain it's necessary, but they will be legal models to use as their master versions in 2.0 regardless)

2) Each faction will get its own faction deck with all of the models/upgrades for that faction in the first wave of models. Duplicates will be provided where necessary.

3) No idea. I'm not on the production side of things. I can talk all day about rules, though.

Thanks Justin,

Besides the Inhabitants of Malifaux pdf, any updates on Through the Breach? While I might not be on the M2E train, I've got this weird gremlin shaped rash that has been itching for my Malifaux RPG

 Absolutionis wrote:
Did people really have this much of a negative reaction when Warmachine MkII came out?

They didn't have to... that rule-set actually IMPROVED the game, in a pretty unanimously received way.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Absolutionis wrote:
Did people really have this much of a negative reaction when Warmachine MkII came out?

They didn't have to... that rule-set actually IMPROVED the game, in a pretty unanimously received way.

Maybe they didn't have to because they could find plenty of other changes to complain about?

Instead of complaining about the rules for Warmachine Mk II, a share of the population spent endless hours either:
1. Complaining about the changes to various models.
2. Complaining about the choice of point scales
3. Complaining about the changes to the special rules on the models.

 solkan wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Absolutionis wrote:
Did people really have this much of a negative reaction when Warmachine MkII came out?

They didn't have to... that rule-set actually IMPROVED the game, in a pretty unanimously received way.

Maybe they didn't have to because they could find plenty of other changes to complain about?

Instead of complaining about the rules for Warmachine Mk II, a share of the population spent endless hours either:
1. Complaining about the changes to various models.
2. Complaining about the choice of point scales
3. Complaining about the changes to the special rules on the models.

So you mean, like Malifaux V2.0(aside from model complaints)? Got it.

Probably. People have their favorite pieces, and they tend to obsess over them not being great, so OP things are sometimes ignored and pieces no one's vocal about stay terrible.

Malifaux 2E cover

From twitter.

I think it looks fantastic.