Thatguyhsagun wrote:
Chain axes are AP 4. Power axes are AP2. Power swords are AP3. I see no reason a chain sword wouldn't be AP5, but thatd cause them to rewrite all the rulebooks, the marine codex's they've put out... too much work for GW

pelicaniforce wrote:

Kain wrote:I guess you could be lazy and say that Chainswords give AP5 and call it a day if you want them to stand out.

It is interesting that you say "always," since there are only constrained ways. First is the notion of changing chainswords at all. Other units, even in the same army, often have chainsword equipped models. Since ap5 is a characteristics that other models would not have, these models with chainswords, like sergeants, would come with a points price compared to models in the same unit without one. Also, since those sergeants do not always have chainswords, they would need to be an option instead of base equipment. Since any rules associated with chainswords, whether they were the ones you suggested or other ones, would be mostly irrelevant to they way a tactical or devastator squad works, chainswords would become irrelevant wargear and those models would be discouraged by the rules. The rules would erase chainswords from those units.

Then there is the actual suggestion of ap5. "If you want them to stand out" is not actually the OP.

LlamaAgility wrote:Assault marines aren't one of "those" units that gets power weapons for every single member. They are not an elite unit, such as chaos chose, wolf guard or vanguard veterans. They are, as per official fluff (which has been like that for a long time), an almost direct promotion from scout marines. They don't carry that many elite relics. One power weapon/plasma pistol per squad is thee to give them an extra chance against tougher assault units.

You are bringing up the wrong background problem. The background problem that could actually be an issue is that it's possible a Black Consul or other codex adherent marine would say it is wrong for an assault squad to have more than one special weapon per five members. That is the right thing to object to.

You also have a bad underlying premise. You say that assault marines are promoted directly from scout marines. The actual case is that marines in one company, the eighth, are all in assault squads, and most of them are young or junior marines who were novices/scouts not long before. However, marines in the battle companies are also members of assault squads, and many members of the eighth company have been marines for a very long time. There are no, as you call them, "assault marines." There are only regular "marines" that are in assault squads, and marines have to be in assault squads before they can be in tactical squads. However, those marines can join assault squads again later, or never join tactical squads in the first place. There is no seniority inference that can be made about assault squads generally, which are the closest a concept comes to your "assault marines."

Then the conclusion you draw from that bad premise is wrong. An eighteen year old guard officer with can have a power weapon; power weapons are wires connected to batteries. Tactical and scout squads do not have power weapons because using power weapons is the exact opposite of either of those squad types' jobs. Assault squads are specifically constituted in part to fight close combats, which is why the assault squads of second edition have the option for any of their models to take special close combat weapons.

StarTrotter wrote:Wait my apologies. Aren't Thunder Hammer Storm Shield Termies rather powerful CC units?

What do you mean by powerful? If you mean to ask if they usually win when they are in close combat, then the answer is "only if the unit they are fighting are not slugga boys." Since it is very easy to end up in close combat with slugga boys, on balance they are kind of powerful CC units.

If you meant "powerful" in the context of being good at winning games, then no, they are not very helpful for winning games. They are only somewhat likely to get into close combat with an enemy you need them to kill, and if they do they have taken a huge percentage of the army's points to kill one or two enemy units, since they cannot get into more than a few combats per game.

McNinja wrote:

pelicaniforce wrote:
It might have been closely related to another point, which is that Blood Angels use assault squads in a way that allows them to be troops, and other chapters do not, even if they are deploying an entire Eighth Company at once.

Squads mounted on bikes are sometimes main line squads and not always support squads the way assault squads are. For some chapters bikes are situational alternatives to rhinos.

Instead of giving us all an english lesson we don't need, hows about we answer the question Llama posed.

Regardless of what the fluff says, C:SM captains and CM's should be able to take a Jump Pack and make assault marines troops. It's a 25 point upgrade, so it isn't cheap, but it unlocks fantastic troops that are never used in their own slot.

skchsan wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
Chain axes are AP 4. Power axes are AP2. Power swords are AP3. I see no reason a chain sword wouldn't be AP5, but thatd cause them to rewrite all the rulebooks, the marine codex's they've put out... too much work for GW

They should make a global FAQ:

"All codice: chainswords are AP5/6 weapons"

pelicaniforce wrote:
Does its having ap5 attacks make taking an assault squad more appealing? Does it? Against other space marines?

pelicaniforce wrote:
What about against orks? Does ignoring a 6+ save make assault squads any better against slugga boys?

pelicaniforce wrote:
Having more flamers makes assault squads good against slugga boys, that is probably a safer proposition.

Power mace attacks might be good against slugga boys, except that they cost fifteen points, and I would rather have another assault marine instead. Even better, I would rather have three flamers, which are the same amount of points as one power mace, sort of.

pelicaniforce wrote:
So here is another idea. Right now, I can put a chainsword on any model I want, because it does not have any rules. Just any old model that would look good with some chainswords can have five chainswords growing out of its knee. Chainswords look very good on warhammer models. I think anything that makes it easier to put chainswords on models is a good idea.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Either AP5 or Shred would be a decent upgrade.