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Ok recently I got into flames of war, and I soon realized I like the smaller scale!!! What i want to discuss is the validity of 15mm on a ficticious game that is trying to accomplish the same thing as warhahmmer, warmachine, etc....we can also look at it from the games that are popular that are 15mm flames of war and field of glory.

Here are my list of pros and cons

Model pros

1. easy to paint....they are smaller, duh! SO much easier to paint! I painted a 1500 flames of war army in 2 days! it has 9 tanks, a TRAIN (which is like 4-5 more tanks but bigger) and 7 stands of troops with some half track trucks for transport!
2. easier to transport
3. cheaper? (havent researched this fully as their are only two 15mm games that I know of (flames of war and field of glory) but on cursory view you can get a comprable 1500-2000pt armies for these games for a fraction of the cost of a gw game. I bought the above mentioned army for less than 300 bucks new. Most of that was the cost of my train and his tracks as well which is a unique situation.

Model cons

1. They are smaller so less detail? the tanks look 100% good, its troops that you lose some clarity, I personally like them though AND with modern 3d modeling techniques and molds how much better can they be?
2. Cant convert as easily at this scale? Again, due to the lesser clarity I think it may be easier to convert since you dont need to worry so much about detail (this is not true of the existing 15mm games as most of them are historical and their is little converting. Alsi epic is 6mm scale! so thats even smaller! (i think it makes troops to small in my opinion)
-----Here is a blog post i found about custom epic models and it looked easy! http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/06/epic-look-what-i-found.html
3. easier to lose? or misplace?

Gaming pros

1. same size table so tactics/strategy are bigger in scope as their is more room.
2. easier to move around, and units come on same base or "stand" of troops, so your not moving 200 orcs one at a time, 200 orcs would be like..20 stands of 5? much easier! Comment - you COULD have them individual based but then it would be a pain to move without your fat fingers knockign them down, but if you made a warmachine style game in 15mm you would want individual models and you would use the scale for the diversity it gives you in terrain
3. can have BIGGER BADDER models since the scale allows for big dudes making combat more epic!!!!
4. terrain -- think of warmachine/malifaux/infinity where it is easy to build multi tier buildings for true 3d combat that are prohibitively large and expensive when you try and do it in 28mm

Gaming cons
1. Generalization - most 15mm games not only make the models smaller but generalize alot of rules, some may see this as a con. Example the "stand" of orcs makes one attack based on stand where at 28mm a 40k band of 5 orcs could do alot of things most likely
cant think of anything else? anyone?



What do you all think? do you wish their were more 15mm games? especially in the fantasy or scifi genre?

why arent there more already?

Ive just finishing painting up some 50 Sci-Fi Troopers from Alernative Armies - I also purchased the USE ME sci Fi rules ( Ultra Simple Engine for Miniature Engagements ) and am looking forward to playing games with them .

Also have some Aliens style Tanks / APC's from Antenocitis Workshop

Troops Sculps generally cant be as good as 28mm self evidently , and can be quite variable but you get what you pay for , they are incredibly cheap at around 40p -50p per model ( UK money )

i literally just got back from seeing the antenocitis thread on dakka and checking out their site!
They have a couple of very good 15mm models.

I might buy a few of each.

I do like 15mm for one thing...the ability to fit lots of vehicles into a game without overcrowding the table. I like 15mm (or 10mm) for my mecha gaming. However, I have no interst in infantry in that small of a scale. I dont like painting tiny things. Heck, size is the main thing thats kept me away from 28mm Dwarves.

28mm guy here. No interest in 15mm.

I played with 15mm back in the 80s.
I've gone up in scale over the years since. With time, your eyesight usually declines anyway.

We played "cold war gone hot" when it was relevant and contemporary. Nowadays, it's just alternate history.

28mm and staying there (but have completely given up on 40k. There are much better games out there in the same(ish) scale, but smaller model counts).

I really like the idea of 15mm. One of my biggest complaints with current 40k is that it's trying to be Epic and it just doesn't feel right.

I'd dearly love a 40k 15mm game. Small enough to have massive scale battles, large enough to have a little fun painting the models. Titans would be great in that scale, with Warlords near Riptide size, visually imposing but not requiring a Ute to transport them to where you're playing.

I'd be right there with you Loki. Flyers and titans have a place in that scale, as do armoured companies. Really makes me wish that GW had continued Epic on that grand well, epic scale and kept 40k to more of a small battle/skirmish. I haven't bought new GW stuff in a looooong time but that'd get me if the system was half decent.

 Kojiro wrote:
I really like the idea of 15mm. One of my biggest complaints with current 40k is that it's trying to be Epic and it just doesn't feel right.

Indeed. 15mm is better for actual gaming. 28mm for conversions and painting.

I've been toying with the idea of getting back into 15mm gaming (I still have my 15mm samurai army for DBA somewhere...), and with AQotMF and Mecha Front coming out soonish, I finally have an excuse.

No way I would want to repurchase all my 40k stuff for 15mm. Not worth the expense.

Theorius wrote:
1. They are smaller so less detail? the tanks look 100% good, its troops that you lose some clarity, I personally like them though AND with modern 3d modeling techniques and molds how much better can they be?

This is why I don't like 15mm or smaller, you just can't have the same detail in the models. It might be ok as a side project with a small number of models (for example, Aeronautica Imperialis), but for a main army it doesn't have any appeal to me.

I switched from 28mm to all 15mm a little over a year ago and couldn't be happier. While you do lose some detail with the switch to a smaller scale, for those of us who just like "tabletop" quality the amount of detail on a lot of 15mm infantry is more than sufficient nowadays. For example, I think these guys look better than GW's current Cadian line:



Don't get me wrong, there are some downsides to the scale (anything more complicated than a head swap is a pain in the a$%!), but some of the biggest "pros" are that scale seems much more accurate, a 15mm soldier firing at max range at 24" is much more believable to me than a "28mm heroic" firing at that same scale. Additionally, vehicles, IMHO, tend to look much more "in scale" in 15mm sci-fi then in 28mm. YMMV, but for me the pros of going the 15mm route have far outweighed the cons.

I'm very, very tempted to get into Flames of War or one 15mm sci-fi game. The idea of having a whole tank company or loads and loads of mechs on the tabletop is so ... appealing to me

Talking of tank companies.You can get a Russian Tank Battalion deal from P.S.C for £63!

TWENTY ONE,Russian T34/ 76 tanks !(including optional 85mm turrets!)

25mm and above is great for skirmish games.

10 to 15mm is much better to play bigger battles with IMO.

I wish I liked historical games more...took me FOREVER to get talked into flames of war, my buddies though all wanted to do it, but now that I have some of these little guys and have played the rules (which are AWESOME) I dont want to go back much really....


I just wish their was a fantasy game or...40k like game in 15mm (space fantasy, not sci-fi)

I LOVE 15mm. Infantry is big enough to be reasonably detailed and easy to paint, vehicles are a pleasure to behold and terrain is cheap and easy to make.

I prefer to stick to "generic" sci-fi in this scale as there's a wide variety of different rulebooks to try and plenty of independent makers to mix and match an army from.

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
I LOVE 15mm. Infantry is big enough to be reasonably detailed and easy to paint, vehicles are a pleasure to behold and terrain is cheap and easy to make.

I prefer to stick to "generic" sci-fi in this scale as there's a wide variety of different rulebooks to try and plenty of independent makers to mix and match an army from.

is their a good site that lists all the rules options? I have not found any other than....demonwolrd which ral partha europe is actually brining back (fantasy)

I have heard of 15mm sci fi rules but have not found one good source.

Theorius wrote:

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
I LOVE 15mm. Infantry is big enough to be reasonably detailed and easy to paint, vehicles are a pleasure to behold and terrain is cheap and easy to make.

I prefer to stick to "generic" sci-fi in this scale as there's a wide variety of different rulebooks to try and plenty of independent makers to mix and match an army from.

is their a good site that lists all the rules options? I have not found any other than....demonwolrd which ral partha europe is actually brining back (fantasy)

I have heard of 15mm sci fi rules but have not found one good source.

Tomorrows War is meant to be great for 15mm.

Theorius wrote:

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
I LOVE 15mm. Infantry is big enough to be reasonably detailed and easy to paint, vehicles are a pleasure to behold and terrain is cheap and easy to make.

I prefer to stick to "generic" sci-fi in this scale as there's a wide variety of different rulebooks to try and plenty of independent makers to mix and match an army from.

is their a good site that lists all the rules options? I have not found any other than....demonwolrd which ral partha europe is actually brining back (fantasy)

I have heard of 15mm sci fi rules but have not found one good source.

Dropship Horizon has a great catalogue of plenty of rules sets for 15mm sci-fi. If you find one that looks interesting to you the best bet is to ask questions on The Miniatures Page 15mm sci-fi message board and see what current players have to say about it.

Good find, econtutor!

My ruleset of choice is Tomorrow's War by Ambush Alley. Actually we looked to it as my group wanted to try a simulation-oriented wargame that could be played with our existing collections (mostly 40k) or generic miniatures, but as Loki said it works great for 15mm too.

I've been looking into picking up a copy of Hammer's Slammers: The Crucible as a ruleset that's essentially built for large tank engagements.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Kojiro wrote:
I really like the idea of 15mm. One of my biggest complaints with current 40k is that it's trying to be Epic and it just doesn't feel right.

Indeed. 15mm is better for actual gaming. 28mm for conversions and painting.

I do not agree, 28mm is great for skirmish games, 15mm is good for large scale engagements

Armies of Arcana is a great Fantasy 15 or 28 mm rule set. There are a bunch of different mini manufacturers for the scale.

If GW released 40k in 15mm for apocalypse I would love it. Same game play but you could get more on the table. Epic scale is too small for 40k because in that scale you have to have infantry on stands and that would change the way the game plays. However 15mm infantry in 18-20 mm bases works just fine. (I used to play WWII battles using 3rd ed 40k rules.)

15mm is a brilliant scale. Enough for plenty of detail and for big sized games and the number of manufacturers for sci-fi in 15mm grows and grows. It was FOW that got me into 15mm in the first place but now it’s my default scale for anything new I want to try.

I don't want to play with 28mm these days for anything other than skirmish games with less than 20 models a size.

By the way anyone interested in 15mm sci should check out Khurasan. A cracking range of figures. Many clearly 'inspired' by existing franchises, but thats no bad thing.

http://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/adventure.html

I do like the 15mm scale.my first experience was a long time ago with medievel models when we used to play DND. But now i am happy with the scale.I currently play flames of war.But i have been thinking of starting a Fantasy or a Sci fi game on this scale.More models,less space and cheaper price.If anyone knows of a Fantasy model Manufacturer please send me a link.
Also for my sci-fi i think i am going to be making my own rules up.This way we can use about any 15mm ww2 or Sci fi models,we will be even be using Goth models too.mmmmm NAzi Zombies brraaaaiiinnnsss...

 col. krazy kenny wrote:

Also for my sci-fi i think i am going to be making my own rules up.This way we can use about any 15mm ww2 or Sci fi models,we will be even be using Goth models too.mmmmm NAzi Zombies brraaaaiiinnnsss...

If you're interested in mashing up WW2 with sci-fi (and who isnt) then you might want to check out Clockwork Goblin minatures. I've no idea if they have a US stockist yet but they have a small yet growing range of Weird World War 2 mech infantry, walkers and best of all Nazi Zombies in 15mm.

http://www.clockworkgoblinminis.co.uk/ourshop/

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Kojiro wrote:
I really like the idea of 15mm. One of my biggest complaints with current 40k is that it's trying to be Epic and it just doesn't feel right.

Indeed. 15mm is better for actual gaming. 28mm for conversions and painting.

I do not agree, 28mm is great for skirmish games, 15mm is good for large scale engagements

In sci fi, the range of 28mm is too short unless all your skirmishers are shooting with iron sight pistols. Even 15mm is too large, but at least its better.

I love my 15mm moderns and 15mm Sci Fi. I also have 15mm dark ages and a few other 15mm projects like 15mm pulp.

A 28mm Kong could be expensive and a pain to store, but a 15mm Kong...





And a 28mm Ogre would take up WAY too much room, but in 15mm?





For me, 15mm has a place...