How to beat Farsight Tau Deathstar

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**phantommaster**

Mali wrote:
Considering that a farsight bomb is usually around a 1000 points with drones its 28 models. Said tau player must have at least 28firewarriorson the table. your looking at about 1500 points right there. 2/3 of which is in reserve. just Dakka his little remaining guys to death on turn one and that over costed unit will never see the light of day.

This, I saw a veteran player tabled by an IG kid on turn one because he didn't have enough units to soak up the Guards firepower.

**Theorius**

Red Corsair wrote:
Theorius wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
Ouch, 3X10 kroot is a serious hole man. That list throws out some lethal damage I'll give you that but 30 T3 LD7 bodies for 5/6 missions is horrible. Reserving them isn't a great plan as you have no reserve manipulation either. I see bad match ups against guard, necrons horde orks and nids. Really flier heavy and horde lists will own this build. Oh and a more rounded tau list ironically.

you say that but i dont play the mission and the kroot usualy do die, quickly, mwahaha.....BUT, since the enemy has to live to end of turn 5 to hold missions, I simply do not afford them that opportunity.

It is often a mistake enemies make they simply think they can kill my kroot and play the missions, but if you are focusing on anything other than the deathstar, you will die, plain and simple.

However, on the same token, I dont think your comprehending how HARD it is to hurt the death star and the riptides.

the deathstar puts out a ton of hurt very efficiently where it is needed.

Lets recap at 18" range (the sweet spot until you go for the kill with rapid fire plasma) it puts out 20xstr 5/5 10xstr6/2 , 4x str 8 ap 1, 8xstr 7/ap4 ...thats alot of shots bro! and over 80% land, and 83-90% wound, and MOST of it ignores armor and ALL of it ignores cover....(that can kill 14-16 marines a turn, and shooting at 8 targets, horde armies it kills 27 a turn.

nasty!

Well no offense but your playing bad opponents then. 30 t3 ld7 wounds is a joke for any of my armies to deal with. Not to mention your deathstar is slow, its jetpack infantry, 33% of missions are hammer and anvil, my 3 t-fire canons will rape your kroot at 60" for only 300 while 1350 of your army is trying to cross the table. Sorry that unit can dump loads of fire but i am more afraid of 45 lootas then that unit. They have range and volume of fire and again cost MUCH less. Take for example 1000 points worth of stern guard, that can deal MORE damage on turn 1 anywhere on the table will creating 9 targets factoring in the 3 deathwind pods. Basically any list that is stupid enough to walk backwards into your bomb cheeks spread deserves to lose, I don't see you wining with the "i don't play the missions" against a good player though.

Look at the damage your bragging about now consider how much damage 3 A barges and 7 NS throw out for 970. That's 60 S7 HITS before any arcs a turn, transports scoring units anywhere and is more durable.

your examples are not good.

neither of them ignore armor or ignore cover so i still get 3+ armor and maybe a 2+ cover (terrain depending)

I faced a necron list and in one turn my bomb took - 2 night scythes, 2x 10 warrior units (rapid fire) 3 a barges and 1 command barge. It was a massive amount of wounds, unfortunately for them i get my armor saves or even my 2+ cover save if I am in cover. It was the closest battle i have had they got me down to 2 suits, shadowsun and a wounded farsight.

I didnt get to thin down his shooting since i had to kill his mass of wraiths in turn 1 and turn 2.

you can see the batrep here.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/523830.page

i even do a turn by turn death count

**Red Corsair**

1st of all, TFC have cover ignoring rounds and that 12 blasts so trust me, your kroot squads going to feel some hurt. You probably need to learn up on other books before redacting comments.
Secondly that's only 300 points and no it isn't a bad example. This is a very common unit in 6th and evaporates tau infantry, I know from seeing it happen repeatedly.
Thirdly My examples are not demonstrating how to kill that deathstar, I am pointing out that you simply ignore it and win the game. All deathstars are bad for this reason, the only reason draigowing had any time in the sun was due to the fact it SCORED.

Without DS which you shouldn't do anyway, that unit is not fast and lacks range aside from it's pods, it will struggle to kill droves of scoring units. You beat an ork list that was not optimized because he fed you his units like a moron. The necron player didn't even know how many HP's a NS has! Yea those are some stellar notches on your belt.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and sternguard will rofl stomp that bomb if played right, they can hit the sides that have drones and support suits first, once those guys are dead the far-sight bomb is hobbled hard.

**Theorius**

Red Corsair wrote:
1st of all, TFC have cover ignoring rounds and that 12 blasts so trust me, your kroot squads going to feel some hurt. You probably need to learn up on other books before redacting comments.
Secondly that's only 300 points and no it isn't a bad example. This is a very common unit in 6th and evaporates tau infantry, I know from seeing it happen repeatedly.
Thirdly My examples are not demonstrating how to kill that deathstar, I am pointing out that you simply ignore it and win the game. All deathstars are bad for this reason, the only reason draigowing had any time in the sun was due to the fact it SCORED.

Without DS which you shouldn't do anyway, that unit is not fast and lacks range aside from it's pods, it will struggle to kill droves of scoring units. You beat an ork list that was not optimized because he fed you his units like a moron. The necron player didn't even know how many HP's a NS has! Yea those are some stellar notches on your belt.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and sternguard will rofl stomp that bomb if played right, they can hit the sides that have drones and support suits first, once those guys are dead the far-sight bomb is hobbled hard.

if your shooting the kroot then by all means blow them away, i was talking about the deathstar.

How is the unit not fast? move 6" jsj 3d6 average of 16" that seems fast to me....nothing is faster than can still shoot, only thing faster are turbo boosting dudes.

what option do 90 orcs have? i start 12" in jum 6" my plasma are shooting 42" across the board? what masterful movement strategy dos he have?

i detest the continual hypothetical units declaration of how easy they can win (with no back up mind you) that are akin to "oh yeah!!! id punch you in the nose!!!" they are worthless, but we talking one sternguard?

if so Ill take my chances with two riptides intercepting with ap2 pie plates, and getting my cover saves on the star.

do people still take sternguard?

sorry if i come off snarky just got back from surgery, alittle loopy!

**A Musketeer**

Yes people take Sternguard and yes they still have a good role to play.

And no, that unit is not fast. Who cares if that jump is in the assault phase?

Deathstars are only fun for ROFL stomping the unwary or your friends; not big tourneys or even middle weight ones.

**Jancoran**

greyknight12 wrote:
So, after reading through this thread the most viable counters seem to be volume of fire and using multiple units to charge the deathstar. So let's explore these a bit more:

1. Volume of fire: what weapons are ideal? What does your TAC list already have that can be useful?
Right now, it looks like AP3/ignores cover weapons are best, so baleflamers (helldrake) and flamestorm cannons (LR Redeemer) are the 2 most common weapons that fit the description. What else?

2. Dual charge: What units do this best? Perhaps a combo of something cheap to waste shots then charge a CC monster unit? Obviously something very mobile is going to have the best results, is it worth putting them in a transport?
I still view TH/SS termies are a common high-end CC unit, would you be able to get a squad of them into combat?

Finally, a cheap trick to maybe do as GK is the Ulumeathi Plasma Syphon on an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, makes all plasma weapons within 12" BS1. What are some other "cheap tricks" from other armies (JOTWW has been mentioned) that could neutralize the Tau deathstar?

The the Ulumeathi Plasma Syphon is an excellent counter to the deathstar, if its built around plasma. Getting it close enough is the trick I would think, but it IS an answer and not unworthy of mention.
Psyker Battle Squads would be super.
Jaws of the World Wolf.

Chaos Dimensional Key could give the unit a lot of wounds just from moving and jumping. Enough to force morale? Who knows.
Blast Masters are very scary to the Crisis suits. Someone mentioned that. There are easily 4 of those in every Slaanesh army, if not 5 opr 6!
The Dark Reapers, one of my favorite units, using their Tempest Launcher can cause serious damage. As it is a BARRAGE, the individual models fro mthe center can only take cover if actually IN it. and Crack shot re-rolls are pretty bodacious.
Some counters just rely on sheer brute force. a pair of Death Company Furiosos with AV 13 would laugh off that plasma and walk through any "walls" of Fire Warriors you built to stop them in all likelihood. Take cover behind the pods, bracket the unit and bring up the LandRaider moving flat out for a triple charge threat. Use the rest of the army to kill the Deathstars supporting fire. Meltas through the drop pod cover would be the only weapon that would hurt any of it. He would be trying to kill those same units anyways. may as well have a showdown now.

Just some thoughts. Obviously there are some answers just in volume.
Punishers with Pask fire 32 accurate times.
DarkStrider can lower the Toughness of a unit by 1. that turns Pathfinder Rail Rifles into instant death weapons against Crisis Suits.

**shogun**

Theorius wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
1st of all, TFC have cover ignoring rounds and that 12 blasts so trust me, your kroot squads going to feel some hurt. You probably need to learn up on other books before redacting comments.
Secondly that's only 300 points and no it isn't a bad example. This is a very common unit in 6th and evaporates tau infantry, I know from seeing it happen repeatedly.
Thirdly My examples are not demonstrating how to kill that deathstar, I am pointing out that you simply ignore it and win the game. All deathstars are bad for this reason, the only reason draigowing had any time in the sun was due to the fact it SCORED.

Without DS which you shouldn't do anyway, that unit is not fast and lacks range aside from it's pods, it will struggle to kill droves of scoring units. You beat an ork list that was not optimized because he fed you his units like a moron. The necron player didn't even know how many HP's a NS has! Yea those are some stellar notches on your belt.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and sternguard will rofl stomp that bomb if played right, they can hit the sides that have drones and support suits first, once those guys are dead the far-sight bomb is hobbled hard.

if your shooting the kroot then by all means blow them away, i was talking about the deathstar.

How is the unit not fast? move 6" jsj 3d6 average of 16" that seems fast to me....nothing is faster than can still shoot, only thing faster are turbo boosting dudes.

what option do 90 orcs have? i start 12" in jum 6" my plasma are shooting 42" across the board? what masterful movement strategy dos he have?

i detest the continual hypothetical units declaration of how easy they can win (with no back up mind you) that are akin to "oh yeah!!! id punch you in the nose!!!" they are worthless, but we talking one sternguard?

if so Ill take my chances with two riptides intercepting with ap2 pie plates, and getting my cover saves on the star.

do people still take sternguard?

sorry if i come off snarky just got back from surgery, alittle loopy!

Yes, the bomb is fast but only after shooting. Your plasma and fusion need to be within 18 inch for maximum effect so you still got to get relatively close. After that you need that 3xd6 move to be good. Don't get me wrong, the farsightbomb can be pretty brutal. Sum armies don't stand a chance against this unit but a lot of competitive lists can give you a run for your money. Its one of the best deathstars out their but It still has the same weakness as all deathstars. One mistake or stupid bad luck and you can lose the game.

My super beastmaster/ baron/farseer unit once got into close combat with a furioso dreadnought. At the end of his turn I want to hit and run and I trow a 6!!

I lose another turn and by then he dropped his assaultmarines on all the objectives and I could't win the mission anymore.

This kind of stuff wil also happen to you especially when you got one very important crisissuit with all those great upgrades that cannot use 'look out sir'.

Theorius wrote:
i detest the continual hypothetical units declaration of how easy they can win

I can imagine, but others feel the same way. You got an answer for anything but the 6ed got more 'paper,rock, scissor' and their still a lot of competitive TAC lists that can ruin your day.

- Imperial guard with vendetta's coming out of reserve filled with shooting veterans
- Tyranid monster list with 2 flying hive tyrant with twin linked devourers coming out of reserves (with possible iron arm)
- furioso dreadnought with 3 flamer templates coming out of a droppod
- 3 helldrakes
- 10 sternguard with 2 heavy flamers + 3 combiflamers and 5 combiplasma or sum other setup (the combat squad after dropping)
- Jetseer counsel with baron (probably going to change but maybe you get sumthing scarier)

These things are not that uncommon in competitive lists.

**wighti**

Not necessary something that works on the entire bomb but has anyone given thought about Vindicares?

If nothing else, taking out the support suit will diminish the firepower of the entire unit by a fair margin.

**Coyote81**

Problem with the vindicare is that he has nothing to get around cover saves. He has to deal with a 4+ cover save at the very least.

**wighti**

Ah, had forgotten that completely. Diminishes his use by a lot.

**Dunklezahn**

This is a fine example of another one of those units you don't want to butt heads with. Decent maneuverability, lots of powerful long range shooting but it's sucking up too many points.

How do you beat the bomb? A Grot out of line of sight on an objective.

Once you drop the Kroot and the 2 Riptides, which is not that hard for a shooting army that dedicates itself to the task, the bombs only recourse is to table you. Without those units the Tau player still has a powerful combat force, but has lost all his utility.

If they can drop your entire scoring contingent they earn a draw on objectives, if they table you entirely they can win, but with no ability to ignore LoS they are going to struggle. The bomb can ignore cover so the classic objective behind an Aegis is worthless, they will just shoot you off it, but once they lose sight of you entirely, like in the corner of a ruin, their firepower is reduced to 0. Now obviously that's what the Riptides would be good for with SMS and exactly the reason you are gunning for them early.

From that moment the Bomb has to close in because if they can't draw a bead on that unit they flat out lose and the Tau player is on the back foot, he's maybe only got till turn 5 to hunt it down and the rest of your army only has to roadblock him until then.

With 1000pts of force multiplier jammed in together like that it's probably the nastiest deathstar on the market right now and so trading punches with it is a losing battle. Play the objective, don't try and be Superman trading punches with Doomsday.

**Theorius**

Dunklezahn wrote:
This is a fine example of another one of those units you don't want to butt heads with. Decent maneuverability, lots of powerful long range shooting but it's sucking up too many points.

How do you beat the bomb? A Grot out of line of sight on an objective.

Once you drop the Kroot and the 2 Riptides, which is not that hard for a shooting army that dedicates itself to the task, the bombs only recourse is to table you. Without those units the Tau player still has a powerful combat force, but has lost all his utility.

If they can drop your entire scoring contingent they earn a draw on objectives, if they table you entirely they can win, but with no ability to ignore LoS they are going to struggle. The bomb can ignore cover so the classic objective behind an Aegis is worthless, they will just shoot you off it, but once they lose sight of you entirely, like in the corner of a ruin, their firepower is reduced to 0. Now obviously that's what the Riptides would be good for with SMS and exactly the reason you are gunning for them early.

From that moment the Bomb has to close in because if they can't draw a bead on that unit they flat out lose and the Tau player is on the back foot, he's maybe only got till turn 5 to hunt it down and the rest of your army only has to roadblock him until then.

With 1000pts of force multiplier jammed in together like that it's probably the nastiest deathstar on the market right now and so trading punches with it is a losing battle. Play the objective, don't try and be Superman trading punches with Doomsday.

very good points!

The way the deathstar TRIES to overcome this weakness is reserving the kroots so they arent even on the board until turn 2 or 3 so they are not taking hits, and the deathstar + riptides can whittle down the enemy significantly.

It often does come down to tabling the enemy though and the deathstar has the tools since each and every suit can shoot at a diffent targets and cover does not help you and generall distances does not help you the only thing is completely out of line of sight.

again this is based on my 6 games thus far.

dark angels twice - once ravenwing and once deathwing
necrons - mass wraiths, 3 barges, command barge, 2 night scythes
orks - 90 shootas, 6 nob bikers and warboss, 30 lootas, defcopta
imperial guard - 2 vendettas, 2 basilisks, 2 big blobs with sabre cannons (had like 10 lascannons)
tyranids - hive tyrants, 2 tervigons, hive guard, gargoyles, carnifexs x 2 ((was a newer player))

Automatically Appended Next Post:

shogun wrote:

Yes, the bomb is fast but only after shooting. Your plasma and fusion need to be within 18 inch for maximum effect so you still got to get relatively close. After that you need that 3xd6 move to be good. Don't get me wrong, the farsightbomb can be pretty brutal. Sum armies don't stand a chance against this unit but a lot of competitive lists can give you a run for your money. Its one of the best deathstars out their but It still has the same weakness as all deathstars. One mistake or stupid bad luck and you can lose the game.

My super beastmaster/ baron/farseer unit once got into close combat with a furioso dreadnought. At the end of his turn I want to hit and run and I trow a 6!! I lose another turn and by then he dropped his assaultmarines on all the objectives and I could't win the mission anymore.

This kind of stuff wil also happen to you especially when you got one very important crisissuit with all those great upgrades that cannot use 'look out sir'.

Theorius wrote:
i detest the continual hypothetical units declaration of how easy they can win

I can imagine, but others feel the same way. You got an answer for anything but the 6ed got more 'paper,rock, scissor' and their still a lot of competitive TAC lists that can ruin your day.

- Imperial guard with vendetta's coming out of reserve filled with shooting veterans -- these are dangerous but i get my cover saves
- Tyranid monster list with 2 flying hive tyrant with twin linked devourers coming out of reserves (with possible iron arm) -- get cover saves and i have monster hunter
- furioso dreadnought with 3 flamer templates coming out of a droppod -- get my armor saves
- 3 helldrakes -- 3 of them are dangerous, no question hopefully interceptor drops one. Furthermore I personally would space out in a straight line suit, drone, suit, drone and the templates cant hit that many suits and each suit has 2 wounds
- 10 sternguard with 2 heavy flamers + 3 combiflamers and 5 combiplasma or sum other setup (the combat squad after dropping) -- get my cover saves
- Jetseer counsel with baron (probably going to change but maybe you get sumthing scarier) -- going to ignore till new codex

These things are not that uncommon in competitive lists.

I dont mind counter arguements but they should have substance as to how and why they can kill/survive the deathstar, just showing some basic thought on how you can overcome the defenses of the bomb, or survive its fire.

just saying. "My drop pod furioso will kill it no problem" provides no information and is not helpful....

saying something like....the droppod can come in an average of 9" from the star and its heavy flamers would do this many hits this many wounds....etc ((i dont know what furiousos do this is fake mind you!!!))

and how it would survive getting intercepted by 2 riptides.

and how would it survive the return fire next turn, or is it suicide?

**Nilok**

anonymou5 wrote:
Theorius wrote:

The example above I did at t4 for the horde just reduce total kills by 33% due to invulnerable so...15-16 kills. This does not include riptide damage.

The 2++ reroll is a counter to anyone if you can pull it off. Thankfully if tau go first or the turn you fail the grimoire roll...

Well, hounds have two wounds. Lets say 10 dead because some of it is str8. Riptide kills a few more. Grimnoire stays alive. I was asking because I was wondering if the hound pack was a good place to run the grimnoire or not

Keep in mind that Fateweaver bumps the success rate of the grimnoire to something like 85%. Although then you have to drop The Lord of Change (or the heralds, but then you might not get 4++ to turn into a 2++. Still could pull the same nonsense with Fatewever, heralds, hounds and a Demon prince of tzeentch. (Or a second Hound pack instead of the DP)

There are a few Armies that can handle the Demon/2++ nonsense. Notably Dark Eldar. Venoms have the mobility to avoid the buffed unit, an the poisoned firepower to down everything else. They can do it without an allied farseer as well, but that just makes it an auto win for them (although not for much longer)

If I knew a unit had a grimnoire, I would try and take it out first using the Riptide's Nova IA to protect the bomb. If I center the blast on the grimnoire model and have good scatter, he will be the first one taking the S9 ordinance hits.

**shogun**

I know you speak on behalve of the “tau farsight promotion team” but saying stuff like: I use my coversave against heavy flamers doesn’t really count as a good argument.

Also like your other counter argument: Give a list of all the armies you have beaten.

I’am also not saying: My furioso will kill it..no problem. The list I gave are good examples of units that decide their own position on the field with deep strike or coming out of reserves. The can either decide to shoot from a particular angle or use template weapons/ignore cover or both. You simply say: “o well, I just form a big line, no problem!” but that effects your placement, moving, shooting range etc. A big line cannot be fielded in a whole piece of terrain (at least not the terrain iam using) without getting foccused fired upon. You can rely on your interceptor but you will also scatter at the time you need it the most.

You want more substance? Lets take 2 flying hive tyrants with devourers.. If theirs terrain that completly covers them the get to be deployed. If not (and tau got first turn) the can come out of reserve on a 2+ (Hive commander). Both fly 24 inch shoot 18 inch and got two biomancy powers. Theirs a good chance that one got iron arm and/or enfeeble. With enfeeble those suits only got Toughness 3. 2x12 twin linked devourer shots with presicion shot will mean about 6 hits/5 wounds that instant kill on your sensor dude. Devourers give -1 on your morale check so its also possible the run away. Even interceptor cannot take down those Hive tyrant first turn. Thats if everything goes well! The suffer from the same problem as deathstars. If sumthing goes wrong (psychic test) than it can all fall apart. Still…the could give the farsight bomb a hard time.

**Griddlelol**

Nilok wrote:

If I knew a unit had a grimnoire, I would try and take it out first using the Riptide's Nova IA to protect the bomb. If I center the blast on the grimnoire model and have good scatter, he will be the first one taking the S9 ordinance hits.

Why would the Nova IA allow you to force the hits on the grimoir model? It's ordnance, not barrage. You'd just hit the closest models to the riptide, as with any other weapon.

I don't believe anything in the Tau codex is a barrage weapon.

**muagenreaper**

caldaus assasin with inquistor comfy chair deploy the cadlus next to either the suit with all the toys or the hqs then centre inquisitor comfy chairs orbital on the assasin a non scattering strength 10 ap1 large blast ordanance shot woul likly kill most the unit in a coteaz wing army send in the henchmen to keep the orbital from scattering and have some ss for objective play

**Theorius**

shogun wrote:
I know you speak on behalve of the “tau farsight promotion team” but saying stuff like: I use my coversave against heavy flamers doesn’t really count as a good argument.

Also like your other counter argument: Give a list of all the armies you have beaten.

I’am also not saying: My furioso will kill it..no problem. The list I gave are good examples of units that decide their own position on the field with deep strike or coming out of reserves. The can either decide to shoot from a particular angle or use template weapons/ignore cover or both. You simply say: “o well, I just form a big line, no problem!” but that effects your placement, moving, shooting range etc. A big line cannot be fielded in a whole piece of terrain (at least not the terrain iam using) without getting foccused fired upon. You can rely on your interceptor but you will also scatter at the time you need it the most.

You want more substance? Lets take 2 flying hive tyrants with devourers.. If theirs terrain that completly covers them the get to be deployed. If not (and tau got first turn) the can come out of reserve on a 2+ (Hive commander). Both fly 24 inch shoot 18 inch and got two biomancy powers. Theirs a good chance that one got iron arm and/or enfeeble. With enfeeble those suits only got Toughness 3. 2x12 twin linked devourer shots with presicion shot will mean about 6 hits/5 wounds that instant kill on your sensor dude. Devourers give -1 on your morale check so its also possible the run away. Even interceptor cannot take down those Hive tyrant first turn. Thats if everything goes well! The suffer from the same problem as deathstars. If sumthing goes wrong (psychic test) than it can all fall apart. Still…the could give the farsight bomb a hard time.

armor saves vs heavy flamer not cover (i said armor)

your adding the "no problem" part to be snide and I dont appreciate the sarcasm.

the two flyrants - based on the info you gave i agree, they can hurt! I have not faced a flying monsterous in 6th edition so i dont know how effective 6 bs 3 str 7 ap 2 shots or 8bs3twin linked str 5 shots would be in bringing them down with interceptor, but lets just say they get through.

CREDENTIALS - you do not find the fact i actually play the farsight bomb, have done so in 6 games and done massive amounts of reserch (you have been in all my threads) to be enough credentials to find my opinons to be valid, let alone more valid than others who have maybe not even seen the codex let alone played with/against it and saying how they would kill it no problem?

I also like the fact they are characters and can use precision to pick out the commander! good strategy. Are we assuming only one flyrant gets that enfeeble psychic power, is it in the same chart as iron arm? the chart has 6 right and they each get 2 powers?

so one of them gets it his 12 shots lets assume....3 6s to be saucy, all 3 wound, and he still gets 3+ armor or 2+ cover, but if you get him......that would suck.....but i still like my chances.

edit --- duh enfeeble effects the unit so both flyrants would take advantage....

so 24 shots....5-6 precision hits....5 wound....that is more likely to guarantee a kill on the commander, which would also remove stubborn, and your lowering leadership....hmm....i like this actually and it is something people often take.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

muagenreaper wrote:
caldaus assasin with inquistor comfy chair deploy the cadlus next to either the suit with all the toys or the hqs then centre inquisitor comfy chairs orbital on the assasin a non scattering strength 10 ap1 large blast ordanance shot woul likly kill most the unit in a coteaz wing army send in the henchmen to keep the orbital from scattering and have some ss for objective play

do people take this list? i have never seen him used since he came out, i saw a callidus like 2 times in the last 15 years.

**Coyote81**

muagenreaper wrote:
caldaus assasin with inquistor comfy chair deploy the cadlus next to either the suit with all the toys or the hqs then centre inquisitor comfy chairs orbital on the assasin a non scattering strength 10 ap1 large blast ordanance shot woul likly kill most the unit in a coteaz wing army send in the henchmen to keep the orbital from scattering and have some ss for objective play

1. The model closest to the inquisitor would die, not the one next tot he assassin
2. It's a small blast when it's S10 ap1 Lance
3. As long as your opponent is dumb, The assassins flamer could cover quite a few models. With majority LD being 7 (as long as their are more drones then bodyguard suits, otherwise it's
9, aka wounding on 5's) the template could be wounding on 3's, and if he was the closest he would suffer the first 2 wounds.

4. The assassin can't possibly kill the HQs, they always pass LOS tests, and would never get instant killed by the shot since it's S8 vs LD7 (LD9).
5. Anything other the a callidus as a very low chance of being next to the unit to drop down those OSR shots, and even if they do, the unit gets cover saves against it.

**Theorius**

Coyote81 wrote:
muagenreaper wrote:
caldaus assasin with inquistor comfy chair deploy the cadlus next to either the suit with all the toys or the hqs then centre inquisitor comfy chairs orbital on the assasin a non scattering strength 10 ap1 large blast ordanance shot woul likly kill most the unit in a coteaz wing army send in the henchmen to keep the orbital from scattering and have some ss for objective play

1. The model closest to the inquisitor would die, not the one next tot he assassin
2. It's a small blast when it's S10 ap1 Lance
3. As long as your opponent is dumb, The assassins flamer could cover quite a few models. With majority LD being 7 (as long as their are more drones then bodyguard suits, otherwise it's
9, aka wounding on 5's) the template could be wounding on 3's, and if he was the closest he would suffer the first 2 wounds.

4. The assassin can't possibly kill the HQs, they always pass LOS tests, and would never get instant killed by the shot since it's S8 vs LD7 (LD9).
5. Anything other the a callidus as a very low chance of being next to the unit to drop down those OSR shots, and even if they do, the unit gets cover saves against it.

very good analysis coyote! i like how you broke it down!

**muagenreaper**

ok well i shoulda read the relay before i post oops
however it is ordance when it is not lance which mean line of fire is drawn from the center of the pieplate as per the ordinance rule in the brb
and also i was just thinking outside of the box as the op is how to beat it and chapter master orbitals though they are one us and can drift are viable against the bomb
no its not run so much though i plan on running it when i do start a grey nights army its gonna be a spanish inquisition army lol
yes they will get there armor against the ordinance versions but there is an ordinance d3 version meaning the possibility to soak them in s6 woulds with no cover allowed takin from the center of the bomb instead of the sacrificial models
the ablillty is to get cadaus to where you can use her to remove the scatter from the equation for the firs turn and taking hordes of deathcult will most likely ensure that this is true for most the game4
i was simply thoery crafting a fun thing to do from time to time as the thread has pretty much turned into a flame war and i was attempting to lighten the mood a bit
oops i got 5th ed and 6th ed ordinance confuzzled oh well as you were

**Coyote81**

muagenreaper wrote:
ok well i shoulda read the relay before i post oops
however it is ordance when it is not lance which mean line of fire is drawn from the center of the pieplate as per the ordinance rule in the brb
and also i was just thinking outside of the box as the op is how to beat it and chapter master orbitals though they are one us and can drift are viable against the bomb
no its not run so much though i plan on running it when i do start a grey nights army its gonna be a spanish inquisition army lol
yes they will get there armor against the ordinance versions but there is an ordinance d3 version meaning the possibility to soak them in s6 woulds with no cover allowed takin from the center of the bomb instead of the sacrificial models
the ablillty is to get cadaus to where you can use her to remove the scatter from the equation for the firs turn and taking hordes of deathcult will most likely ensure that this is true for most the game4
i was simply thoery crafting a fun thing to do from time to time as the thread has pretty much turned into a flame war and i was attempting to lighten the mood a bit
oops i got 5th ed and 6th ed ordinance confuzzled oh well as you were

No offense was meant, just trying to help you when you were confused on a couple rules. Similiar thing with your most recent post as well.

The rules you are looking for that witch the point of orgin as the center of the large blast template is barrage rules per pg 34 of the BRB. The ordanance rule doesn't really have any affect in this situation, as you can see on pg 51 of the BRB. And Since none of the OSR attacks have the barrage special rule per pg 598 of Codex GK (despite one of them actually being called a barrage), none of the attacks ignore cover saves, and all attacks count as coming from the firer for the purpose of coversaves.

Theorycrafting is awesome, one of my favorite past times, but you just gotta make sure your suggestions follow the urles correctly. I'm just trying to help you out with that one part. Like I said, no offense was meant.

Using the GK codex I think that one of the best things you could do if bring Mordak and his ghost kights. more to follow

**Theorius**

Coyote81 wrote:
muagenreaper wrote:
ok well i shoulda read the relay before i post oops
however it is ordance when it is not lance which mean line of fire is drawn from the center of the pieplate as per the ordinance rule in the brb
and also i was just thinking outside of the box as the op is how to beat it and chapter master orbitals though they are one us and can drift are viable against the bomb
no its not run so much though i plan on running it when i do start a grey nights army its gonna be a spanish inquisition army lol
yes they will get there armor against the ordinance versions but there is an ordinance d3 version meaning the possibility to soak them in s6 woulds with no cover allowed takin from the center of the bomb instead of the sacrificial models
the ablillty is to get cadaus to where you can use her to remove the scatter from the equation for the firs turn and taking hordes of deathcult will most likely ensure that this is true for most the game4
i was simply thoery crafting a fun thing to do from time to time as the thread has pretty much turned into a flame war and i was attempting to lighten the mood a bit
oops i got 5th ed and 6th ed ordinance confuzzled oh well as you were

No offense was meant, just trying to help you when you were confused on a couple rules. Similiar thing with your most recent post as well.

The rules you are looking for that witch the point of orgin as the center of the large blast template is barrage rules per pg 34 of the BRB. The ordanance rule doesn't really have any affect in this situation, as you can see on pg 51 of the BRB. And Since none of the OSR attacks have the barrage special rule per pg 598 of Codex GK (despite one of them actually being called a barrage), none of the attacks ignore cover saves, and all attacks count as coming from the firer for the purpose of coversaves.

Theorycrafting is awesome, one of my favorite past times, but you just gotta make sure your suggestions follow the urles correctly. I'm just trying to help you out with that one part. Like I said, no offense was meant.

Using the GK codex I think that one of the best things you could do if bring Mordak and his ghost kights. more to follow

coyote i enjoy your theory crafting it is also one of my favorite pass times!

even barrage weapons dont help against the deathstar as the point of origin is the middle but even in the wide open the unit gets 4+ cover, so it would help maybe with what takes the wounds? if its strength 8 ap 3 though it is still scary as it can insta gib suits but then again with being able to space suits out with drones between them you can get 1-2 suits even with a large blast.

**A Town Called Malus**

Griddlelol wrote:
Nilok wrote:

If I knew a unit had a grimnoire, I would try and take it out first using the Riptide's Nova IA to protect the bomb. If I center the blast on the grimnoire model and have good scatter, he will be the first one taking the S9 ordinance hits.

Why would the Nova IA allow you to force the hits on the grimoir model? It's ordnance, not barrage. You'd just hit the closest models to the riptide, as with any other weapon.

I don't believe anything in the Tau codex is a barrage weapon.

The Airburst Fragmentation Projector is Barrage.

**Coyote81**

So the simple idea I had with Mordrak and his Ghost Knighs: Bring the unit, add in a Librarian with warprift, plus two separate units of interceptors with incinerators. First turn pinpoint DS to line up the warprift on suit models only if possible. Teleport your interceptor forward to line up their incinerators to slaughter as many drones as possible. With two separate incinerators, you should be able to clear a majority of the drones out, if not all of them, at that point the suits will be the only thing left, and they'll have a lot of Int tests to take. With any kind of luck, you can have the unit reduced to Farsight/Shadowsun and one suit in one salvo of shooting. (The stormbolters might even snag a guy at the very end)

**Tuagh**

Sam/Bel MSU Dualwing seems almost like a hard counter if it gets first turn.

Bikes scout forward. Termies daisy chain off of the bikes, with Belial's unit no-scattering right behind the bomb. So long as SS's face toward the riptides interceptor losses should be tolerable, and Belial's unit should be close enough that interceptor blasts will not be a good option. Bikes then move close, Knights pop a Rad Grenade on the unit, normal bikers spam bolter shots into the drones, and plasma talons and termie heavy weapons start IDing suits. Tau player then has one turn to wipe every unit in the army or face a double/triple/quadruple charge from whatever is left. Good positioning should ensure that the bomb is effectively surrounded.

**anonymou5**

Actual semi counter seen in action.

Fateweaver comes out of reserve (because really, he's always in reserve, it's his home). Vector Strikes bomb. Then get's grimnoired. Then casts Psychic Shriek and Bolt of Change (he did end up giving the bomb FNP after killing several). Bomb then shoots him with everything. He of course survives.

Repeat.

**tetrisphreak**

anonymou5 wrote:
Actual semi counter seen in action.

Fateweaver comes out of reserve (because really, he's always in reserve, it's his home). Vector Strikes bomb. Then get's grimnoired. Then casts Psychic Shriek and Bolt of Change (he did end up giving the bomb FNP after killing several). Bomb then shoots him with everything. He of course survives.

Repeat.

Why didn't the tau player kill the grimoire-wielding character *before* the fateweaver came in from reserves? There's problem number 1 with that combo. Problem number 2 comes from the tau player trying to kill a 2++ re-rollable faeweaver instead of other aspects of the chaos army (such as previously stated grimoire-holder).

**anonymou5**

tetrisphreak wrote:
anonymou5 wrote:
Actual semi counter seen in action.

Fateweaver comes out of reserve (because really, he's always in reserve, it's his home). Vector Strikes bomb. Then get's grimnoired. Then casts Psychic Shriek and Bolt of Change (he did end up giving the bomb FNP after killing several). Bomb then shoots him with everything. He of course survives.

Repeat.

Why didn't the tau player kill the grimoire-wielding character *before* the fateweaver came in from reserves? There's problem number 1 with that combo. Problem number 2 comes from the tau player trying to kill a 2++ re-rollable faeweaver instead of other aspects of the chaos army (such as previously stated grimoire-holder).

Well, he panicked, I guess. Not everyone makes the right choices. I'm also fairly sure Grimoire was on a flying Demon Prince with Invisibility outside of Marker Light Range. I didn't watch the entire game, just saw bits and pieces, including the hilarity with Fateweaver. But the Demon player is super good, Tau player less so.

**tetrisphreak**

Ah. I see. Well your scenario (a 2++ re-rollable MC) is a tough nut for any army to crack. Hopefully i don't run into any of those anytime soon with my tau!

**anonymou5**

tetrisphreak wrote:
Ah. I see. Well your scenario (a 2++ re-rollable MC) is a tough nut for any army to crack. Hopefully i don't run into any of those anytime soon with my tau!

Well, if you happen to be in a Demon Heavy meta, an allied Farseer pretty much solves that problem. (True Fateweaver can still get a 2++ without psychic powers, but outside of certain scenarios that's not that useful). I'm bringing a Demon/IG list to a tournament on Saturday, and I think Tau/Eldar is probably the worst possible match up (I think straight Tau I can steamroll, but not if I lose all my shooting), I cannot wait for RoW to get nerfed