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 MajorTom11 wrote:
I'm sorry, I don't agree with that. That would be a perfect scenario, AFTER he is held accountable for the people he has left high and dry either by his own volition or via a court of law.

I meant to write that as well .

A manager should hopefully be able to separate a percentage of the profits to compensate people who can demonstrate a valid claim.

Of course this is all wishful thinking...

This all assumes 2 things:

1. That Resin Forge has anyone else actually associated with it(which remains unproven).

2. That Resin Forge operates on enough profit to pay an employee instead of being a solo operation.

I really doubt that some upstart that is 6 months old has the revenue and profit stream to pay an employee, and somehow generate profit to owners/managers. This isn't wholesale bits like other companies. All of these kits are bought at MSRP and then parted out, but I really doubt that process generates 35-45% profit as most retail does.

It is this fact that leads people to assume recasting, as that is the only viable way to make any profit when there is no wholesale price to be had. I'm not saying they recast, but I am saying that it would be the only way to generate sustainable profit.

Then there is this idea that 5 models at anything less than $300 each is a worthy investment to send 2 people all the way to England. No one flies to the UK on business just to turn a 2% profit on an $80 model.

I'm not saying that this is what is happening here, not even remotely.

Just playing the "in a perfect world" game.

In a perfect world German photographers don't turn into sneaky multinational commandos sending C&Ds to nerds on a forum.

Do we actually know who these five supposed people are? Or could it just be that Daniel will stay at home and write a few testimonials on his site saying 'cheers for the mini'?

I would like to add that assuming for a second that RF was indeed scammed by Britcons that I find it soooooo hilarious how somebody as proficient in allegedly scamming people could be so erm, naive, to pay 103 bucks for an obviously fake C&D letter from a company which didn't even have a homepage or any google results at the time of sending the letter (mind: their homepage that quickly disappeared again was just online for a couple of hours, at least the version with the stolen content text.). So if assuming he was conned by fake lawyers that just would show that he has zero business sense which could actually account for some of his troubles

Do we actually know who these five supposed people are? Or could it just be that Daniel will stay at home and write a few testimonials on his site saying 'cheers for the mini'?

Not all, but some. In how far they are fakes, we will see when it happens. Anyway it's not only people who bought Fulgrim, there were also people who ordered other stuff.

In what way was Resin Forge "scammed" by Britcons?

Resin Forge paid Britcons to send a C&D. It was sent.
Britcons did some follow-up communication with YakFace.
The thread was taken down.

Job done.

I fail to see how this amounts to Resin Forge being scammed -- they got exactly what they paid for.

Don't know how it is in the USA but in the UK unless his other ventures were a LTD company, then he Daniel is personally liable for any losses. If Resin Forge is the equivalent of a Limited Liability Company then it would not be liable for any of the debts of one of the directors and or shareholders. If this is the case and they weren't LTD then hit him with small claims court or equivalent. If they were then all you can do about it is spread the word as you've done in this thread and maybe stick a link to the threads in your sigs.

I for one had never heard of him until this sorry scenario, having said that from what I've read even if RF were legitimate I wouldn't buy from them just because of this Daniel guy. I'm not one for throwing my money at dodgy businesses and even if RF aren't dodgy there is certainly enough muck being thrown about to put me off. I even warned off 3 people from my gaming group who were going to place orders. Again with no proof that RF are anything but legitimate just the involvement of Daniel they could do without the hassle.

Thank you Dakka for looking out for the community and I will remember to check these pages out every time I consider buying from anywhere but GW/FW.

In what way was Resin Forge "scammed" by Britcons?

Resin Forge paid Britcons to send a C&D. It was sent.
Britcons did some follow-up communication with YakFace.
The thread was taken down.

Job done.

I fail to see how this amounts to Resin Forge being scammed -- they got exactly what they paid for.

You are right as the letter says nothing about being a lawyer comapny. Nor did the homepage. Everybody can call themselves consultants without lying

Have any of these scammed people tried small claims court? You can sue for anything there, will get your money back, and if enough cases pop up the legal system will take notice. Not to mention that if there is a sufficient volume of you, you can keep him occupied for weeks.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
In what way was Resin Forge "scammed" by Britcons?

Resin Forge paid Britcons to send a C&D. It was sent.
Britcons did some follow-up communication with YakFace.
The thread was taken down.

Job done.

I fail to see how this amounts to Resin Forge being scammed -- they got exactly what they paid for.

Only that Britcons wasn't involved, but someone hijacked website and allegedly paypal account from a German photographer.

I still don't see that as a scam on Resin Forge. They contacted Britcons and contracted for a service. It was delivered, and Resin Forge paid. Presumably they were satisfied with the service provided.

Only that Britcons wasn't involved, but someone hijacked website and allegedly paypal account from a German photographer.

As yakface said: possibly. Or possibly not. In any case DM paid (according to him) for a C&D letter by a company without credentials, and that's what he got.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I still don't see that as a scam on Resin Forge. They contacted Britcons and contracted for a service. It was delivered, and Resin Forge paid. Presumably they were satisfied with the service provided.

Do we know they approached Britcons? yakface has the right of it, we really don't know. Someone might have seen what was going on, and decided to pull a switcharoo on Resin Forge.

A switcharoo in which they say they will do a C&D to Resin Forge's request, for $100, then they do it, and they get paid because it worked?

I'm just not getting how this would be a scam.

You offer a service, you do it. The customer is satisfied and pays you.

Wait so is there proof that they paid them and what not? I wasn't aware that had happened beyond rambly-poor-grammar posts on the facebook page

Why would the scammer do the job if not paid?

It's normally the other way around.

Oh I meant that it may not have been a scammer. Got it, I get your point now

Wait so is there proof that they paid them and what not?

There seems to be a paypal transaction file about a payment from "Kim Hernandez" to Britcons if I understood correctly. Which of course is super convincing as at least me personally have doubts about the existence of KH (for many previously mentioned reasons) and because whoever "hacked" Mr Duerkopp's page also hacked his paypal account.

By the way: does anybody know what kind of photography page that was supposed to be originally?

 Inquisitor S. wrote:


By the way: does anybody know what kind of photography page that was supposed to be originally?

By the magic of the wayback machine : http://web.archive.org/web/20120728131155/http://britcons.com/

*edit : just using google translate, looks like it was a security company last year. I can't find a britcons.com that was a photography page.

Most interesting reading. A blow-by-blow simplification just to have something to do between head scratching and face-palming:

1. A suspected shady person is using various accounts to perform alleged frauds by selling/trading miniature gaming related goods.
2. Gaming community members are increasingly angry at this behavior and a thread in DakkaDakka forums is put up to identify the person and possibly link him to his many aliases - especially to one new outfit ResinForge which thus far appears to has a solid reputation.
3. Thread gains success and community members add dots to other dots to form a big picture.
4. The connected dots paint the silhouette of one Daniel Mandelbaum whose persona is linked to several unsavory business transactions done under a multitude of aliases, but his involvement in ResinForge remains unclear.
5. The thread contains information that DM is thinking is incorrect, defaming his persona and diminishing the reputation of his current endeavor ResinForge.
6. DM hires a German-based mercenary/law firm BritCons to issue a Cease&Desist -letter to the owner of DakkaDakka in order to get the thread disappear.
7. DakkaDakka owner receives the C&D letter by email from the German -based outfit on behalf of Daniel Mandelbaum, who in that letter is attributed as one of the owners of ResinForge.
8. DakkaDakka obeys the C&D letter but decide to publish the letter and thus provides adequate evidence that the Mandelbaum character is indeed not only working for the ResinForge, but one of it's owners - thus rendering the deleted thread moot.
9. The published C&D letter is quickly questioned on it's legality and the BritCons mercenary/law -firm's hastily gobbled-up web site is up for hours only and then disappears.
10. Community actives debunk the existence of the BritCons - it's address would place it in Germany, but the address provided is not registered to this company and in fact the company does not exist according to Germany's official records. A similarly named company is found from the UK, but it's field of operation does not match the one supposedly based on Germany.
11. It then becomes apparent that the signer of the C&D (claiming to be the CEO of the BritCons) is unaware of his name being used in this context and in fact claims to be in an entirely different line of work and that he has recently been the victim of an identity theft and that he indeed owned the web-site www.britcons.com, but has deactivated it ages ago and has no knowledge of it's recent short-lived reactivation.
12. ResinForge is approached by the strange circumstances surrounding the mysterious mercenary/law -firm and they indeed confirm that ResinForge hired the firm to send the C&D letter on their behalf.
13. ResinForge blames another website of activities that somehow resulted in the mercenary/law -firm to lose all it's presence in the internet.
14. DakkaDakka owner confirms that a PayPal transaction between ResinForge and BritCons has indeed taken place - of a small sum presumably being the cost of drafting the C&D letter.
15. ResinForge is pinpointed to a certain location in Texas,USA but thus far no records have been found to prove that the company exists as an official entity.


That's about it thus far, right?
...

I wonder who owns the movie rights! I'd pay 10 bucks to see it.

@xaarex

Careful, you may give DM an idea for a movie kickstarter.

Rorschach9 wrote:

 Inquisitor S. wrote:


By the way: does anybody know what kind of photography page that was supposed to be originally?

By the magic of the wayback machine : http://web.archive.org/web/20120728131155/http://britcons.com/

*edit : just using google translate, looks like it was a security company last year. I can't find a britcons.com that was a photography page.

You've got to do a little digging with google and whois registry searches using the personal info that was used to register that site (and other sites registered under that name) to find the guy's flickr and facebook accounts where he talks about being a photographer.

I edited out the identifying info that was dug up from my posts in the thread, since it was linked to a guy who claimed not to know anything about what was going on.


As Yakface said in his update it is entirely possible that this guy did send the C&D and is just bailing out. Or he could be the victim of someone grabbing his expired domains and using his name.

czakk wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:

 Inquisitor S. wrote:


By the way: does anybody know what kind of photography page that was supposed to be originally?

By the magic of the wayback machine : http://web.archive.org/web/20120728131155/http://britcons.com/

*edit : just using google translate, looks like it was a security company last year. I can't find a britcons.com that was a photography page.

You've got to do a little digging with google and whois registry searches using the personal info that was used to register that site (and other sites registered under that name) to find the guy's flickr and facebook accounts where he talks about being a photographer.

I edited out the identifying info that was dug up from my posts in the thread, since it was linked to a guy who claimed not to know anything about what was going on.


As Yakface said in his update it is entirely possible that this guy did send the C&D and is just bailing out. Or he could be the victim of someone grabbing his expired domains and using his name.

True. That wayback machine link is the ONLY hit they have for that domain name and it's from June 28th 2012 (perhaps July, I don't remember now). It could go either way and none of us will know without anything more done. Unfortunately, as Yak has said he doesn't care that's the end of that particular tangent of the discussion.

I think any domain hacking that might have occurred will be followed up by the German photographer who originally owned Britcons.

@xaarex: the timeline of the last events is not in the right order, but more or less (plus some not that important details) it's correct.

I am surprised that you gave the C&D letter ANY credibility at all Jon. Or, for that matter, acceded to any of the statements requesting you to change what is displayed on your website,.

Now - let's look at the Demographic of the average Dakkanought....

1. Spends $$$'s and time painting minatures, or other Gaming related Hobbies.

2.Spends incredible amounts of time looking/posting things on the WWW.

3.Usually have a fairly clear idea of what is right/wrong.

LET THE GUY SUE YOU . If that is even a realistic threat. I am sure a great deal of us would chip in , and then laugh as the counter claims built....

akira, the point Jon made earlier was that he just doesn't want the bother.

Regardless of how a legal battle would have turned out, our even if it would have happened at all, there was no need to even contemplate going to that amount of hassle when the simple act of sending the c&d letter confirmed the identity of the guy behind resin forge far better than the previous thread did anyway.

Sure, removing that thread probably wasn't necessary. But neither was that thread any longer necessary, so nothing was lost by removing it.

Good point. Fair enough

Yeah, it basically boils down to Yakface not wanting to potentially waste his time in court (however tiny that change may be) in order to make a point that the letter already made anyway.

Can't say that I blame him there.

Though isn't the whole not wanting to waste time in court the reason why this guy gets to keep coming back and doing these things? Because no one ever actually holds him accountable?