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Hey guys, my first necron list, tell me what you think.

HQ:
Destroyer Lord - 160
- Sempiternal Weave
- Mindshackle Scarabs

Troops:
10 Warriors - 245
- Ghost Ark

10 Warriors - 245
- Ghost Ark

Fast Attack:
10 Canoptek Scarabs - 150

Heavy Support:
Annihilation Barge - 90

Annihilation Barge - 90

Total: 980 Points

Destroyer Lord rides with scarabs 33 wound fearless blob with preferred enemy that will kill armour and drown whatever gets into cc with it. Warrior barges float around to objectives or just advance and dakka. Annihilation barges zip around giving infantry and rear a bad time.

Is this any good?

Thanks, Pheonix Lord Asurmen

Looks good. Plenty of dakka, plus you can regenerate with the ghost ark, lots of AV13 and you can glance most flyers to death.

Give the Destro Lord a warscythe though.

Have fun with it!

Awesome! Thanks for the response. I'll try to build towards this list then. Are you sure that the Destroyer Lird doesn't already come with a warscythe? I think I remember seeing it in his wargear section.

In fact, the DLord already comes with a warscythe. The combo, Dlord plus Scarabs, looks a bit unusual.

Well I used scarabs because I want solid anti tank in the list, and because they're cheaper than wraiths for more wounds, more attacks and a better ability to tarpit.

They may be cheaper and more wounds but trust me Wraiths are easily worth the points to swap them out with the Scarabs. And even though they have more wounds they will drop really fast, and flamers hurt them bad and now days in 6th flamers are everywhere. I would side with Wraiths to be honest.

Pheonix Lord Asurmen wrote:Awesome! Thanks for the response. I'll try to build towards this list then. Are you sure that the Destroyer Lird doesn't already come with a warscythe? I think I remember seeing it in his wargear section.

Ooops. My bad.

CaptainHonkey wrote:They may be cheaper and more wounds but trust me Wraiths are easily worth the points to swap them out with the Scarabs. And even though they have more wounds they will drop really fast, and flamers hurt them bad and now days in 6th flamers are everywhere. I would side with Wraiths to be honest.

Agree, but at 1000 points the scarabs are probably more points efficient. There are 2 GA to hide behind and provide a bit of a buffer against the flame templates. In order to get a decent squad of wraiths, something else would have to go.

MarkCron wrote:
Agree, but at 1000 points the scarabs are probably more points efficient. In order to get a decent squad of wraiths, something else would have to go.

I would disagree.

3 Wraiths with Whip Coils are 15 points cheaper than 10 Scarabs. Fewer wounds, yes, but better toughness and much, much better Save

Wraiths with WCs are much more helpful in CC than Scarabs

The Scarabs reduce the Mobility of your DLord

At 1000 points, I expect to see fewer high AV vehichles.

Against the High AV Vehicles that do show up, the DLord with WS (3+1 attacks that hit on 3+ and re-roll 1s, S7+2d6, AP1) is already capable of dropping them in 1 round of Assault

If my DLord and his companions are attacking Squishy Troops like IG Vets most of the time, sure, Scarabs are fine, but against MEQ, TEQ, and dedicated CC troops, the mobility, 3+++, and WCs of the Wraiths shine.

foolishmortal wrote:

MarkCron wrote:
Agree, but at 1000 points the scarabs are probably more points efficient. In order to get a decent squad of wraiths, something else would have to go.

I would disagree.

3 Wraiths with Whip Coils are 15 points cheaper than 10 Scarabs. Fewer wounds, yes, but better toughness and much, much better Save

Wraiths with WCs are much more helpful in CC than Scarabs

The Scarabs reduce the Mobility of your DLord

At 1000 points, I expect to see fewer high AV vehichles.

Against the High AV Vehicles that do show up, the DLord with WS (3+1 attacks that hit on 3+ and re-roll 1s, S7+2d6, AP1) is already capable of dropping them in 1 round of Assault

If my DLord and his companions are attacking Squishy Troops like IG Vets most of the time, sure, Scarabs are fine, but against MEQ, TEQ, and dedicated CC troops, the mobility, 3+++, and WCs of the Wraiths shine.

Fair points. Depends how the OP was planning on using the scarabs. With GA, he has plenty of opportunity to provide cover for the scarabs and I find they make a better tarpit than wraiths.

Couple of things though.

a) 3 wraiths, even at 1000 points, is not enough. They will get shot and will dramatically lose effectiveness, probably faster than the scarabs.
b) The DLord will give preferred enemy to the scarabs too - 40 attacks rerolling, even at S3, are likely to do more damage than 9.

I'm not saying wraiths aren't good, just that I can see the scarabs benefit here. Attaching the DLord is unusual, but as the scarabs are swarms and fleet, they aren't going to slow him down much.

MarkCron wrote:
a) 3 wraiths, even at 1000 points, is not enough. They will get shot and will dramatically lose effectiveness, probably faster than the scarabs.

That is true under some circumstances, namely high volume of fire, low strength weaponry. The most common example being <12" away from Troops choices with Rapid-Fire weaponry. If the DLord/Wraith squad finds themselves in this position, I would think either they just killed a unit, or the Necron Player failed to make use of his movement options very well. I agree, it is something to consider.

At S8 and above, they are equally vulnerable to ID. The Scarabs usually won't get a save, and the Wraith's 3+++ will save them 2/3 of time, but since they cost 3x more than the scarabs (with WCs) it balances out. At S6-7 the Wraiths have the advantage. Auto Cannons, Assault Cannons, Multilasers, etc will ID Scarabs, but not Wraiths.

b) The DLord will give preferred enemy to the scarabs too - 40 attacks rerolling, even at S3, are likely to do more damage than 9.

This is just not true. Comparing 3x Wraiths with WC with 9x Scarabs (for equal points) vs MEQ. Since Wraiths and Beasts both have enhanced movement compared to MEQ, it's reasonable to assume they will get the charge.

The 3 wraiths get 12 Attacks on the charge +3 HoW auto-hits. With PE, that's 10 Hits and 9.7 Wounds. VS 3+ MEQ armor, that's 4.1 unsaved Wounds (the HoW hits don't Rend)
The 9 Scarabs get 45 Attacks on the charge. With PE that's 26.25 Hits and 10.2 Wounds. VS 3+ MEQ armor, that's 3.4 unsaved Wounds

Here is the real difference though... The Wraiths HoW hits happen at I10 and WCs reduce the enemy units in B2B to I1. The Wraiths are just better vs almost anything other than a LR or Monolith and the DLord can kill those(>50% of the time in the 1st round of CC with the charge) regardless of which he is with.

I'm not saying wraiths aren't good, just that I can see the scarabs benefit here. Attaching the DLord is unusual, but as the scarabs are swarms and fleet, they aren't going to slow him down much.

Agreed, the Scarabs do have benefit. The question is whether or not they are of more benefit than other options. Also agreed that the Scarabs won't slow the DLord down much, but some? Yes.

IMO, the best thing about Scarabs compared to Wraiths is the economic consideration. Scarabs come cheap with Warriors. Wraiths are >$20 each iirc.

foolishmortal wrote:

MarkCron wrote:
a) 3 wraiths, even at 1000 points, is not enough. They will get shot and will dramatically lose effectiveness, probably faster than the scarabs.

That is true under some circumstances, namely high volume of fire, low strength weaponry. The most common example being <12" away from Troops choices with Rapid-Fire weaponry. If the DLord/Wraith squad finds themselves in this position, I would think either they just killed a unit, or the Necron Player failed to make use of his movement options very well. I agree, it is something to consider.

At S8 and above, they are equally vulnerable to ID. The Scarabs usually won't get a save, and the Wraith's 3+++ will save them 2/3 of time, but since they cost 3x more than the scarabs (with WCs) it balances out. At S6-7 the Wraiths have the advantage. Auto Cannons, Assault Cannons, Multilasers, etc will ID Scarabs, but not Wraiths.

Agree.

In terms of impact on the way the game is played though, dedicating enough shots to wipe out 10 scarab bases (assuming the necron player stays out of template ranges) requires the opposing player to move the scarabs up the target priority list. However, in my experience, wraiths are right up near the top of the target priority list. And at 1000pts, that is a lot of shots to dedicate to wiping out scarabs while there are 2 GA in their face as well. So, at this level, I don't think that the OP is disadvantaging themselves too much.

foolishmortal wrote:

MarkCron wrote:
]b) The DLord will give preferred enemy to the scarabs too - 40 attacks rerolling, even at S3, are likely to do more damage than 9.

This is just not true. Comparing 3x Wraiths with WC with 9x Scarabs (for equal points) vs MEQ. Since Wraiths and Beasts both have enhanced movement compared to MEQ, it's reasonable to assume they will get the charge.

The 3 wraiths get 12 Attacks on the charge +3 HoW auto-hits. With PE, that's 10 Hits and 9.7 Wounds. VS 3+ MEQ armor, that's 4.1 unsaved Wounds (the HoW hits don't Rend)
The 9 Scarabs get 45 Attacks on the charge. With PE that's 26.25 Hits and 10.2 Wounds. VS 3+ MEQ armor, that's 3.4 unsaved Wounds

Here is the real difference though... The Wraiths HoW hits happen at I10 and WCs reduce the enemy units in B2B to I1. The Wraiths are just better vs almost anything other than a LR or Monolith and the DLord can kill those(>50% of the time in the 1st round of CC with the charge) regardless of which he is with.

The above comparison is probably skewed in favour of the scarabs if anything, because the scarabs have a lower S and WS, iirc. However, the equations get very different in the game depending on how many bases are left. If you lose 1 wraith, thats 33% of your attacks gone. So, imho it comes down to how they are played on the table. Personally, if I was facing necrons with any sort of SM army, I'd dedicate a lascannon or two to knock out a wraith, but wouldn't bother shooting a lascannon at a scarab swarm.

Both units are fearless, but in practice I find scarabs to be better tarpit units (sometimes the wraiths are a little too effective), which can be very helpful at this points level. Also, scarabs have a potential benefit against multi wound characters which are less than S6, because a single unsaved wound will leave them with no armour saves.

foolishmortal wrote:

MarkCron wrote:
]I'm not saying wraiths aren't good, just that I can see the scarabs benefit here. Attaching the DLord is unusual, but as the scarabs are swarms and fleet, they aren't going to slow him down much.

Agreed, the Scarabs do have benefit. The question is whether or not they are of more benefit than other options. Also agreed that the Scarabs won't slow the DLord down much, but some? Yes.

IMO, the best thing about Scarabs compared to Wraiths is the economic consideration. Scarabs come cheap with Warriors. Wraiths are >$20 each iirc.

To the OP : Sorry for highjacking your thread, to get back to the point, in your list you have the options of scarabs or wraiths. There are pros and cons to each, so your preference really.