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Remember the Marvel Comic Book Universe is not the Marvel Animated Cartoon Universe is not the Marvel Movie Universe is not the Marvel Ultimate Universe is not the [and this goes on forever]

And all have proven their lack of balls to kill anyone important.

 Grey Templar wrote:
And all have proven their lack of balls to kill anyone important.

Not that uncommon with movies. Studios want to keep profitable ideas open.

Hence why Nolan pussed out and didn't kill Bruce.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
And all have proven their lack of balls to kill anyone important.

Not that uncommon with movies. Studios want to keep profitable ideas open.

Hence why Nolan pussed out and didn't kill Bruce.

Actually, we don't know that he did or didn't.

That was the point of the ending for "The Dark Knight Rises". Alfred can think he's seen Bruce and Selina in his travels, Fox can think "Maybe he did survive...", etc.

Someone mentioned earlier the fact that Whedon has no problems killing primary characters. That's true. He makes a point, however, of doing so in a spectacular fashion and making it so blatantly obvious that they are dead there is no wiggle room.
Coulson's death had quite a bit of wiggle room.

The bigger trailer is here.

Is that... Luke Cage?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
And all have proven their lack of balls to kill anyone important.

Not that uncommon with movies. Studios want to keep profitable ideas open.

Hence why Nolan pussed out and didn't kill Bruce.

Actually, we don't know that he did or didn't.

That was the point of the ending for "The Dark Knight Rises". Alfred can think he's seen Bruce and Selina in his travels, Fox can think "Maybe he did survive...", etc.

Err, I thought the point was Batman died, not Bruce. That's why it showed Alfred seeing him. There was entirely no point showing anything about Bruce surviving if he didn't.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The bigger trailer is here.

Is that... Luke Cage?

Clark Gregg said yes.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Clark Gregg said yes.

Sweet Christmas!!!


The AKA Jessica Jones show never got up off the ground, so maybe they can use this show as a backdoor method of getting people used to the idea of a Luke Cage/Danny Rand/Jessica Jones show by having them as reoccuring characters.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
And all have proven their lack of balls to kill anyone important.

Not that uncommon with movies. Studios want to keep profitable ideas open.

Hence why Nolan pussed out and didn't kill Bruce.

Actually, we don't know that he did or didn't.

That was the point of the ending for "The Dark Knight Rises". Alfred can think he's seen Bruce and Selina in his travels, Fox can think "Maybe he did survive...", etc.

Err, I thought the point was Batman died, not Bruce. That's why it showed Alfred seeing him. There was entirely no point showing anything about Bruce surviving if he didn't.

Nolan is a very complex man; and I do not think him above showing some of the "Five Stages of Grief" as affecting different characters.

IMO: Alfred showcases "denial", Fox showcases hallmarks of "bargaining", and Blake pretty much showcases "acceptance".
That's the wonderful part of movies though. You can read what you want from them when you get open ended things like Coulson's "death" and the ending of "The Dark Knight Rises".

Less Batman, more SHIELD!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Less Batman, more SHIELD!

universe cross, Shield lead by BATMAN!

Heh. I can hear the exchange.

Coulson: We don't need you Batman.
Batman: Wrong. I don't need you.



Now imagine Batman saying that in Kevin Conroy's voice.

Sigh, those of you crying that Coulson should have died and Marvel pulled a "meaningless death"...most of us KNEW that there was about a 75% chance that Coulson survived. Fury needed an excuse to get the team to work together (nothing was working so far), and Coulson's fatal-appearing injury was a perfect chance to pull some Avenger-heartstrings. Coulson became too popular of a character, and the likelihood of him dying was slim. Nick Fury lies all the time though, and the likelihood of him manipulating the team was pretty close to 100%. Oh...wait. It IS 100%, because it's Nick Fury. If you expected Coulson was dead and he wasn't coming back, then you're naive and you really don't understand the character of Nick Fury at all. I, for one, am happy he's not dead. I expected him to survive, and I'm glad I was right-I like the character, and I didn't see him being killed off.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Sigh, those of you crying that Coulson should have died and Marvel pulled a "meaningless death"...most of us KNEW that there was about a 75% chance that Coulson survived. Fury needed an excuse to get the team to work together (nothing was working so far), and Coulson's fatal-appearing injury was a perfect chance to pull some Avenger-heartstrings. Coulson became too popular of a character, and the likelihood of him dying was slim. Nick Fury lies all the time though, and the likelihood of him manipulating the team was pretty close to 100%. Oh...wait. It IS 100%, because it's Nick Fury. If you expected Coulson was dead and he wasn't coming back, then you're naive and you really don't understand the character of Nick Fury at all. I, for one, am happy he's not dead. I expected him to survive, and I'm glad I was right-I like the character, and I didn't see him being killed off.

LOGIC ON DAKKA!?!?!?!?!!?

What heresy is this??

Plus it's comic book stuff - people complain when nothing changes and they complain when everything changes. They complain when someone dies and complain when someone comes back.

Status quo is the single solitary aim with comic-book storytelling, and it surprises me how often people forget that.

I mean I've heard the same complaint "What's the point" about two opposite items: Age of Ultron and Death of the Family. People ask "What's the point" with AoU because everything's just going to go back to the way it was by the end, and people ask "What's the point" for DotF because nothing changed (that is to say, no one died).

The point is to tell a story, not to dramatically change something every time a story is told.

There is a difference between knowing there is a likelihood that something will happen and being happy about it. As I said before, I was pretty sure that Coulson would be brought back, but that doesn't mean I'm also happy with the choice to do so.

Comic book storytelling is a little more complex than you give it credit for. There is more to graphic storytelling than adolescent power fantasies and superheroes.

A story can be told and be about change, and it can also be about sacrifice, but for it to actually have much meaning it has to actually have sacrifice. Considering the number of novels, comics, short stories, ect that actually have people die in them it seems strange to act like it is a rare occurrence, at least enough to feel justified enough to chastise people for disagreeing with a narrative choice.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Honestly?

I would have been far, far more surprised if Coulson was actually dead. The way that Fury worded his response left the idea of "Coulson isn't really dead; just badly injured and Fury pronounced him dead instead of injured." in my head even when I first saw The Avengers in theaters.

It seemed a very Fury thing to do; he's not above manipulating people for what he judges to be the "right reasons".

I had the same thought as well, I had just hoped that since this isn't a comic and actors age, and he isn't a marquee player, that perhaps they would have the guts to follow through for once and give the moment some meaning and weight. After all, this is the same writer/director that killed Wash.

OH GODDAMNIT.

I Haven't seen Serenity yet!

Then how do you even know that

Also, spoilers run out after 9 years

There's a statute of limitations on spoilers.

 Ahtman wrote:
A story can be told and be about change, and it can also be about sacrifice, but for it to actually have much meaning it has to actually have sacrifice. Considering the number of novels, comics, short stories, ect that actually have people die in them it seems strange to act like it is a rare occurrence, at least enough to feel justified enough to chastise people for disagreeing with a narrative choice.

It happens often enough but it also in many ways doesn't happen. Outside of comic books, major characters tend not to die. The ones that do, are sometimes never intended by the author to live all that long anyway (Qui-Gon, Obi Wan, Brom). Death in fiction is a no man's land, relegated to a few select genre's (horror) and authors with the balls to actually go through with it. It can be bewildering at times when you think about it. I mean, Percy Jackson and his friends fought a deity and his army and only three of them died (one of them being a red shirt and the other two being side characters who probably appear for 5 pages total over the entire series).

Comic books are one of the few mediums that actually regularly features the deaths of major players, but it completely undercuts that by making death so meaningless. We all knew Captain America was gonna come back, just like we all know Jhonny Storm won't be dead forever (oh looks he's back already!). Even Super Boy after being dead for nearly a decade came back. You'd think characters would just stop caring when people die, expecting them to show back up sooner or later (which then makes their emotional turmoil feel so fake).

A little bit of that was just a rant XD

 Ahtman wrote:
Comic book storytelling is a little more complex than you give it credit for. There is more to graphic storytelling than adolescent power fantasies and superheroes.

That's correct. I suppose I should clarify that I am referring to the generic "super hero comics", not comics in general, as comics can cover any topic and needn't be related to super heroes at all.

 LordofHats wrote:
Then how do you even know that

Also, spoilers run out after 9 years

Because I've watched every episode of Firefly, but am still trying to get hold of Serenity in a legal manner, so I know it doesn't happen in the show, so it must happen in Serenity.

Also that's okay then, because it came out in 2005, eight years ago.

When I was 11, and far too young to see it.

 Ahtman wrote:


Comic book storytelling is a little more complex than you give it credit for. There is more to graphic storytelling than adolescent power fantasies and superheroes.

If that was directed towards me (and I'm just responding if it is; if its not, then please ignore me), I've used comics to teach in the classroom. I get how deep and complex they are. However, the issue is that people are having problems understanding what makes Nick Fury tick. What he did is standard NF, from every comic he's been in. Joss did his homework, and pumped out a character that matches his comic book personality well, blending classic and SLJ Nick Fury into a perfect combination of the two. The current argument really doesn't involve "getting" the complexity of comics, it's about understanding the psyche of the head of S.H.I.E.L.D., which a lot of people don't want to accept. The other possibility is that the Coulson who died (or is alive now) is a LMD: Nick Fury is more famous for using them than he is for manipulating people. Which usually leads to Wolverine cutting the decoy in half and spitting at it.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
If that was directed towards me

It wasn't.

Nick Fury using Coulsen's death to manipulate the group into action is in character for him whether Coulsen is dead or he lied about it. Him manipulating people isn't the issue, as he would have done that either way; I just think going with the former would have been a better choice.

Ok, cool. So we're saying pretty much the same thing. I just couldn't see anyone other than me as the possible target for your response.

Well I'm glad to see Coulson making an appearance, but why are the rest of the cast a bunch of pretty 20 something’s who barely look out of high school?

Please don’t say this is something to do with attracting a young audience. I think it’s downright patronizing to claim that youngsters won’t watch TV shows where the cast members are over 30. Certainly didn’t stop me enjoying the X-Files as a teenager anyway.

 LuciusAR wrote:
Well I'm glad to see Coulson making an appearance, but why are the rest of the cast a bunch of pretty 20 something’s who barely look out of high school?

Please don’t say this is something to do with attracting a young audience. I think it’s downright patronizing to claim that youngsters won’t watch TV shows where the cast members are over 30. Certainly didn’t stop me enjoying the X-Files as a teenager anyway.

Because SHIELD's application process requires a certain level of sex appeal, Fury wants to be surrounded by sexy people.

 LuciusAR wrote:
Well I'm glad to see Coulson making an appearance, but why are the rest of the cast a bunch of pretty 20 something’s who barely look out of high school?

Because Ming Na Wen looks amazing for a 50 year old, that is why. You should send her an email letting her know you think she is in High School, or just barely out of.

And now we have the big trailer.

 Goliath wrote:
Because I've watched every episode of Firefly, but am still trying to get hold of Serenity in a legal manner, so I know it doesn't happen in the show, so it must happen in Serenity.

You know where I got my copy of Serentiy on Blu-ray? Weirdly enough, Amazon.co.uk. They frequently have these incredibly deep sales, such as the Aliens Quadrilogy for like $20 USD, so long as you don't mind waiting for UK shipping (and it's free if you have Prime despite it being not the US site!). If you check slickdeals you'll see them pretty frequently. They're also region free; though as an actual UK resident this wouldn't have been a problem for you anyway.

On-topic, I'm cautiously optimistic that this will be the best TV show of all time next to the X-Files.