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Question: If a squad shoots rapid fire in their shooting phase, can it fire their overwatch as rapid fire in the following enemies turn? Can they shoot at all after rapid fire until there next turn?

Yes, they're allowed to shoot whenever able.

Overwatch is a normal shooting attack, albeit at BS1. This means if a model is firing a Rapid Fire weapon, and is within half range of a charging unit (very likely) then it would fire 2 shots (assuming it also has LOS).

Rapid fire is a class of weapon, not a mode of attack.

There is no restriction on using a rapid fire weapon in overwatch after using it in your own turn.

This seems incredibly overpowered especially for tau, after you rapid fire your not even allowed to assault or shoot, why should you be allowed to fire overwatch at all.. tau are rolling up to 40 strength 5 AP 5 shots a turn BROKEN!

In reality it means they get one or two more hits with overwatch. That's hardly broken, especially since Tau tear like wet tissue paper in combat.

This thread is mind boggling.

 Frecklesonfire wrote:
This seems incredibly overpowered especially for tau, after you rapid fire your not even allowed to assault or shoot, why should you be allowed to fire overwatch at all.. tau are rolling up to 40 strength 5 AP 5 shots a turn BROKEN!

Or shoot? What do you mean or shoot?
You can't assault after firing a rapid fire weapon, true.
They're still only Snap Shots, so it's not that bad. And Over watch is Tau's only hope of surviving an Assault (and it's a slim hope at that).

That's just per unit that opts to engage in the overwatch, too. You could have multiple units shooting at your one unit, twice per game turn. It does seem a bit....overkill.

I know my guard like overwatch. It has saved their buts many a time so far!

 Frecklesonfire wrote:
This seems incredibly overpowered especially for tau, after you rapid fire your not even allowed to assault or shoot, why should you be allowed to fire overwatch at all.. tau are rolling up to 40 strength 5 AP 5 shots a turn BROKEN!

You do realise that the overwatch rules are basically there to benefit line infantry, all of which are armed with rapid fire weapons? Also you can get fire warriors in squads of 12, so the apocalypse would come with a single squad rolling 48 to hit dice over the course of a full game turn. Which is comparable to the buckets of dice that larger horde units of roughly the same cost also get to roll...

Also the fireblade doesn't work in overwatch. So that 48 shots becomes 84 in the turn most hitting on 4s the others 6s whereas 200pts of Boyz gets 60 shots followed by 90 attacks in a single turn...

12 Fire Warriors Overwatching within 15"will not even kill a single Marine statistically.

Totally BROKEN! lol

Now watch how many of those overwatches kill Chaos Daemons, Orks, etc! I do agree, against Marines, it relaly doesn't mean much of anything. It really only gets grating against armies that have bad saves (Orks orks orks) or units that mainly have low toughness (The assaulting Bloodletters and the Daemonettes with their lovely toughness 3).

Onto the argument of whether it is broken eeeeh.... Overwatch is just simply terrible implimentation. It favours Tau, Orks, perhaps even nids, certain Necron units (slightly), and to a limited extent IG. In comparison, it doesn't really help Space Marines that much and it is another nail in the coffin of assault oriented units.

Don't worry about the number of overwatch shots that Tau get though. If you are, hopefully I am correct in my assumption, Blood Angels, for the most part assaulting the enemy won't be that bad. Unless they markerlight you, you will be likely capable of making it through most shots bar one or two. Heck this might help you stay in close combat until their turn ends (so you don't get shot to death right after killing their group).

Since when has taking a couple extra casualties totally crippled a unit of daemons or orks in their ability to eradicate fire warriors?

The only thing it might do is make you fail the charge, which could have happened anyway.

Guard blobs can shoot 150 shots a turn. BROKEN!

They can (nearly) do that in one shooting phase. Not that broken

 StarTrotter wrote:
Now watch how many of those overwatches kill Chaos Daemons, Orks, etc! I do agree, against Marines, it relaly doesn't mean much of anything. It really only gets grating against armies that have bad saves (Orks orks orks) or units that mainly have low toughness (The assaulting Bloodletters and the Daemonettes with their lovely toughness 3).

Don't forget my DE wyches! T3, effectively no save, and not enough wounds to shrug it off!

Phantasm Launchers and charge through cover. Wyches have fleet to mitigate the "3 dice, take the lowest" penalty with re-rolls and the grenade launcher provides a plus 1 to cover saves if shot within 8" (so within reasonable assault range) to your "effectively no save" wyches have a 4+ cover. not too shabby for 10 pts.

 chelsea_hollywood wrote:
Phantasm Launchers and charge through cover. Wyches have fleet to mitigate the "3 dice, take the lowest" penalty with re-rolls and the grenade launcher provides a plus 1 to cover saves if shot within 8" (so within reasonable assault range) to your "effectively no save" wyches have a 4+ cover. not too shabby for 10 pts.

That is IF they are charging from cover which is a difficult maneuver to pull off and fairly impractical to rely on in a real game

really? i've never had a problem finding cover to charge through, as most units will shack up in cover to either give themselves a save or force assault units that don't have grenades to go last. to say nothing of the number of gun line armies that are hiding behind ADL (which would give you a 3+ cover after the defensive grenade bonus)

objectives area also commonly placed in cover, so assaulting to clear/take an objective happens quite a bit as well.

sure, it's not going to work 100% but then nothing does. spending 10 pts on an ability to that will go off more than 1/2 the time seems reasonable to me.

 StarTrotter wrote:
Now watch how many of those overwatches kill Chaos Daemons, Orks, etc! I do agree, against Marines, it relaly doesn't mean much of anything. It really only gets grating against armies that have bad saves (Orks orks orks) or units that mainly have low toughness (The assaulting Bloodletters and the Daemonettes with their lovely toughness 3).

2.24 kills for either the Orks or Daemons.

Can't a DA gunline fire 100 bolter rounds/turn if set up right?

Can't a DA gunline fire 100 bolter rounds/turn if set up right?

Try about double that. Each bolter fires 4 shots so its quite possible to get 200+ bolter shots a turn at 24".

Frecklesonfire wrote:This seems incredibly overpowered especially for tau, after you rapid fire your not even allowed to assault or shoot, why should you be allowed to fire overwatch at all.. tau are rolling up to 40 strength 5 AP 5 shots a turn BROKEN!

I chuckled at this.

Lemme break it down for you, sonny jim.

40 S5AP5 shots, hitting on 6's.

That's 6.67 hits.

Against T4, 3+ that's 1.48 wounds.

'tis simply the risks of charging into combat.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:This thread is mind boggling.

I chuckled.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:12 Fire Warriors Overwatching within 15"will not even kill a single Marine statistically.

Totally BROKEN! lol

12 fire warriors will kill approximately .22 of a tactical marine on overwatch.

StarTrotter wrote:Now watch how many of those overwatches kill Chaos Daemons, Orks, etc! I do agree, against Marines, it relaly doesn't mean much of anything. It really only gets grating against armies that have bad saves (Orks orks orks) or units that mainly have low toughness (The assaulting Bloodletters and the Daemonettes with their lovely toughness 3).

Onto the argument of whether it is broken eeeeh.... Overwatch is just simply terrible implimentation. It favours Tau, Orks, perhaps even nids, certain Necron units (slightly), and to a limited extent IG. In comparison, it doesn't really help Space Marines that much and it is another nail in the coffin of assault oriented units.

Don't worry about the number of overwatch shots that Tau get though. If you are, hopefully I am correct in my assumption, Blood Angels, for the most part assaulting the enemy won't be that bad. Unless they markerlight you, you will be likely capable of making it through most shots bar one or two. Heck this might help you stay in close combat until their turn ends (so you don't get shot to death right after killing their group).

12 fire warriors will kill 2.667 Orks in over watch.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:
2.24 kills for either the Orks or Daemons.

Where do you get 2.24 from?

I got 24 shots (12 RF pulse rifles), hitting 4 times (24/6=4), wounding on a 3+ is 2.667; with no armour save, (AP5), surely it stays at 2.667?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FlingitNow wrote:

Can't a DA gunline fire 100 bolter rounds/turn if set up right?

Try about double that. Each bolter fires 4 shots so its quite possible to get 200+ bolter shots a turn at 24".

for even 60 TM, it's only 120 at 24".

240 at 12", though.

Some armies get power armour. Some armies get mad assault skills. Some armies, get good overwatch and shooting. Tau is that army, and the general rule of thumb is, if anything get's into assault with a tau unit, the unit is most likely as dead as a doornail. So yeah, what's the problem with them having something to deterr assaults?

for even 60 TM, it's only 120 at 24".

240 at 12", though.

I think you should read the Salvo rules again. How are you getting more shots at half range? Also 4 * 60 is 240 shots at 24" range. 260 if the banner squad has bolt guns.

The setup I saw (1d4chan) was..

Librarian w/command squad w/Banner of Devestation
Darkshroud
10 Tac Marines, all with Bolters
10 Tac Marines, all with Bolters

Something like 700 points it said, and I think that'd be 100 shots..

What setup would you need for 240 shots? (I'm curious)

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

Where do you get 2.24 from?

I got 24 shots (12 RF pulse rifles), hitting 4 times (24/6=4), wounding on a 3+ is 2.667; with no armour save, (AP5), surely it stays at 2.667?

Daemons will have a 5+ invuln save at the very least. Which reduces the wounds they take to 1.777

Orks may also have a KFF save which will do the same thing.

I don't know where 2.24 comes from.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

snipercam7 wrote:
The setup I saw (1d4chan) was..

Librarian w/command squad w/Banner of Devestation
Darkshroud
10 Tac Marines, all with Bolters
10 Tac Marines, all with Bolters

Something like 700 points it said, and I think that'd be 100 shots..

What setup would you need for 240 shots? (I'm curious)

Command Squad riding in LRC: 24 shots

6 tac squads(assuming they have 1 special weapon and no heavy): 216 shots

That gets you 240 bolter shots. And it not that hard to pull off either.