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If I roll a 1-2 at the end of the phase to see if hurts me and I suffer a wound, is that wound multiplied by D6?

I don't have a book in front of me, but IIRC the answer is no, it isn't.

The book clearly states you suffer 1 wound with no armour saves allowed

Yeah, its not like you suffer a wound with the blade's profile. Its separate from the melee profile.

Yes. Otherwise, the Fellblade would fall from arguably the best Big Weapon in the game to The Worst.

But it tells me that Wounds caused by the Fellblade are turned to d6.


Is it not the Fellblade that causes said wound on the roll of 1 or 2 then?

Bloodhorror wrote:
But it tells me that Wounds caused by the Fellblade are turned to d6.


Is it not the Fellblade that causes said wound on the roll of 1 or 2 then?

No, melee attacks made with the Fellblade cause D6 wounds. The Fellblade wasn't used in a melee attack against its wielder.

Unless it has been Errated:

"Any Unsaved wounds caused by the Fellblade are multiplied into d6 Wounds."

Says nothing about causing wounds in Melee.

Page 107 – The Fellblade.
Changethefirstsentenceto “Thisfoulsword givesthe bearer
Strength 10,and successful ward savestaken against wounds
inflicted by the bearer in closecombat must bere-rolled.”

Q:If thebearerof the Fellblade inflicts a wound upon himself,
must here-roll successful ward saves? (p107)
A: Yes.

These are the only things that mention the FellBlade in the faq. The second point seems to imply that the bearer is in fact hitting himself with the blade. Perhaps this means it does cause D6 wounds?

There's just no way that's what was intended, but I suppose that, yeah, that's how it works.
Here's a 190pt character with, at most, a 3+ armour save or T5 W4, who stands a remarkably good chance of killing himself in the first two turns of the game.
Oh, but wait! If he can get into combat with a more expensive character or monster, he stands a good chance of making his points back. If his opponent is I7 or less, doesn't have ASF, and doesn't have a Regeneration save.
...stupid.

Skaven stuff kills themselves...

Who da Funked it?

Bloodhorror wrote:
Skaven stuff kills themselves...

Who da Funked it?

Most skaven stuff kills you when you use it. It would be like a guy with the censor testing every turn, even if he isn't in combat.

-Matt

Bloodhorror wrote:
Skaven stuff kills themselves...

Who da Funked it?

You've got a 33% chance of taking D6 Wounds every turn. That goes far beyond Skaven recklessness. Name one Skaven item, spell, or unit that offers even half of that risk. Most of the war machines and weapon teams have 5-8% chance of exploding when fired. Not just for existing.

I play Skaven, and i use this Sword... and this is how my friends think it is Played, and it seems that is how it is meant to be played.

On the off chance that i DO make it in however, i'm gonna make my points back !

Bloodhorror wrote:
I play Skaven, and i use this Sword... and this is how my friends think it is Played, and it seems that is how it is meant to be played.

On the off chance that i DO make it in however, i'm gonna make my points back !

The problem is, turn 1, you're testing.
I know you have it, and I know a 190+ point model will die if I just stall the unit, redirect it, or flee from it.
If the warlord with it died at the end of the game 100% of the time, it would be more useful. At least then you could surprise an opponent with it.
If I could take a lord choice assassin with it, it would be totally worth it.

As is, it's just free points for your opponent.

-Matt

Bloodhorror wrote:
I play Skaven, and i use this Sword... and this is how my friends think it is Played, and it seems that is how it is meant to be played.

I beg to differ. If you have a 1 in 3 chance to take a Wound each turn, the awesomeness of S10, Multiple Wounds (D6), and re-rolling successful Ward saves makes it about as good as the other race's Big Weapons of Awesomeness. But other than that? No way. I'd take a 7th Edition Runefang before this interpretation of the Fellblade.
Still waiting for a response as to why the odds of killing your Lord with a 100pt magic weapon are greater than anything else in the whole book.

Bloodhorror wrote:
On the off chance that i DO make it in however, i'm gonna make my points back !

Make it into combat with what? A goblin tar pit? A unit or two of fast Cavalry or other such speed-bumps?
The only thing that makes your point even remotely viable is that, as Skaven, you probably have more units than your opponent. But seriously, how often does your opponent eff up bad enough that your Warlord is in combat with a character or monster that costs more than him? Chariots, most Monstrous Infantry and Cavalry, and a handful of the more efficient monsters are all ideal targets for the Fellblade, and there's no way you're making your points back on them in one turn (which, with this stupid rule plus the fact that you have zero protection, is all you're going to get).

Warpsolution wrote:
I beg to differ. If you have a 1 in 3 chance to take a Wound each turn, the awesomeness of S10, Multiple Wounds (D6), and re-rolling successful Ward saves makes it about as good as the other race's Big Weapons of Awesomeness. But other than that?

Oh, it's way better. Some SCs might have better stuff, but not a lot. Overtyrant has 10S D3 wounds. TK Destroyer of Eternities is really nice, +2S HKB. What makes the weapon uber is the combination. Rerolling wards is pretty unique and the 10S makes the very low S race effectively +6. The super DoC weapon is +D3 to combat stats. You might be able to make something better using super special Dwarf-Points™ but I don't think anything in 8th is better. The fact it has that gigantic penalty makes it pretty worthless, I agree. But it's so over the top there's not much you can do with it.

I'd rate lizardmen with the best 2.
Blade of Revered Tzunki (+1 strength no armor save)
or
Blade of Realities (Ld test when hit or removed from game)

Tzunki leaves you with enough points for a crown of command, and the Blade of Realities leaves you with enough points for a dawn stone.
I'll give up some hitting power in exchange for staying power.

Forcing opponents to re-roll ward saves is neat, but it's only a 15 point common item.

-Matt

An item is worth what it's worth. You don't get to count the other 3 items you buy along with it. A 4+ ward is by far the best "weapon" in that case.

DukeRustfield wrote:
An item is worth what it's worth. You don't get to count the other 3 items you buy along with it. A 4+ ward is by far the best "weapon" in that case.

Sure you do. Magic items are all about combos. You have to take into account when an item prevents you from buying anything else.
Fellblade is a full allotment. Other items aren't.

I love to run a Vampire Hero with Sword of Swiftness, Potion of Strength and Red Fury. He's a mini-vampire lord for a discounted price.
Should I toss that 25 point sword and get a "better" ogre blade? Hell no. The re-rolls to hit are awesome, and he can punch through walls when he needs to.

-Matt

Do you know what a sword of swiftness is? It's a sword of swiftness, and nothing else. It isn't a Sword of swiftness and potion of strength. There aren't combo deals that come with a free toy.

The statement was made it was as good as any of the other "best" swords out there and you started comparing it to multiple items. It's absolute garbage compared to a 4+ ward and nearly anything--a wooden rocking chair. Because in 90% of the cases, you'll make more points back with the ward. But that isn't what the comparison was.

Almost none of the super big weapons are worth taking because they leave you with nothing and anyone who can afford it is likely a lord and now you just spent phat $ on a weapon and have no protection. We know this. But this is a post about Fellblade.

Hellfire Sword is pretty darn good. Loses out to the Fellblade on chance to wound high toughness models, but no armour save and no regen, which make it a pretty good monster killer. Only D3 wounds too, but then also only 65 points.

For the potential, its damn good.
I allways run it in my list simply because i find it pays off more than it kills my warlord.
Throw him on a bone breaker for even more impact and he tears through dragons and other large monsters with ease.

Also,

Most of the war machines and weapon teams have 5-8% chance of exploding when fired. Not just for existing.

Your dice are fixed.
And working out the chance of an explosion on something like a ratling gun? best of luck.

All skaven weapons are hit or miss.
They will do alot of damage to someone throughout the game.

I swear by my doomrocket, but im not going to stop using it because its blown my own units up a few times.
Same with brass orb.

DukeRustfield wrote:Oh, it's way better. Some SCs might have better stuff, but not a lot...The fact it has that gigantic penalty makes it pretty worthless, I agree. But it's so over the top there's not much you can do with it.

I've already admitted that it's one of the best Big Weapons, if you consider the RAI to be: "take 1 Wound on a 1-2" (and let's just skip the discussion about how we can't assume RAI. I can and I will). But with the way the RAW works, your Warlord stands a 17-20% chance of killing himself. Assuming it takes you 2-3 turns to get into combat, you're almost flipping a coin to see whether or not your 200pt Lord gets to do anything except cripple your army.

DukeRustfield wrote:An item is worth what it's worth. You don't get to count the other 3 items you buy along with it.

Eh, yeah, I mostly agree. But an item that makes your more effective in one way and that takes up your whole allowance is worse than a cheaper one, because you can't do any combos and because it leaves you inflexible. Right?

Jackal wrote:For the potential, its damn good.
I allways run it in my list simply because i find it pays off more than it kills my warlord.
Throw him on a bone breaker for even more impact and he tears through dragons and other large monsters with ease.

Tell me, what is it's potential? Turn 1, I roll a die for my Warlord. If that 17% kicks in, he's dead. If he survives, you now know I have the Fellblade on him, so you can keep your non-ASF I8+ Regenerating characters and monsters away from him. Throw any mediocre unit at him, and you'll grind him down just fine. Even if he happens to get into a combat with multi-wound models like Ogres, he'll almost never make his points back in 1 phase.
Again, I'll admit that Skaven can usually place units better than most, but there's only so much you can do to get him into a point-worthy combat without forgoing all other forms of strategy.

Jackal526707 5641298 null wrote:Also,

Your dice are fixed.
And working out the chance of an explosion on something like a ratling gun? best of luck.

1 in 6 chance of rolling a Misfire, mostly a 1 in 3 or 1 in 2 chance of explosion. (1/6)X(1/3) = .05556, (1/6)(1/2) = .083334

Jackal526707 5641298 null wrote:All skaven weapons are hit or miss.
They will do alot of damage to someone throughout the game.

EXACTLY! So why is the Fellblade, the Sword of Swords, 3 times more likely to kill its wielder than the Warpfire Thrower, most volatile of a volatile bunch of death-dealing apparatuses? And then consider that the Fellblade tests every turn, not every turn you're in combat. If you make it into combat on Turn 2, you've had to hope against that 17% chance twice.

Jackal526707 5641298 null wrote:I swear by my doomrocket, but im not going to stop using it because its blown my own units up a few times.
Same with brass orb.

The Brass Orb has a 1 in 6 chance of a Misfire, and can scatter all over the place, making Skaven take Initiative tests or die; the leas scary test for the army to make. And it costs 50pts. And once again, it'll only kill your guys when you use it.
Don't even talk to me about the Doomrocket. This is the second most reliably Skryre device in the book, coming in right after the Doom Wheel (the odds of losing that in one turn are something like 1/2 X 1/6 X 1/3 X 1/3 X 1/2 X 1/2 X 1/2 X 1/2 X 1/2).

If the Fellblade hit you for 1 Wound on a 5+, the odds are your Lord is dead at the end of a standard game, assuming he never got hurt in combat. That's a steep penalty as-is. The only reason I still consider this interpreation of the Fellblade to be better than most other Big Weapons is that, since you're giving up most of your protective gear to carry one, you'll probably be dead anyway.
But a 33% chance at D6 Wounds every turn? Please. I'd take auto-death at the end of the game before that. I'd take S5 hits on all models in base contact with him every turn before that.

The book says, and this is word for word, 'On a roll of 1/2, the wielder suffers 1 wound with no armour saves allowed.

I'm pretty sure that means that it is a single wound with no multipliers. Although that might just be the grammar talking.

It may cause 1 wound, but the FAQ States that you must reroll your ward save if you do take that wound.


Therefore, Via a logical leap, we are assuming that it is the weapon causing the wound and must multiply that wound by D6

Logical leaps are dangerous with GW rules writing. They can lead to game breaking issues if you apply them to other areas.

Its always best to assume a particular FAQ/Errata/written rule applies only to what is specifically mentioned. In this case the wound forces the bearer to reroll any ward saves he makes against it. it is a bad idea to infer that the D6 wounds also applies.

I don't think it's a GOOD rule, but as stated, the only way for the reroll to happen is if the sword itself is causing the wound and not because the Fellblade Fairy is kicking you in the head. If the sword is causing the wound it seems pretty clear it has to be multiplied.

It would be like if a sword was labeled as a great sword. Someone asks in the FAQ if it gives +2S and ASL and the answer is yes. It's reasonable to assume then that it also requires 2 hands because those rules go together even though they didn't explicitly say it.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
The book says, and this is word for word, 'On a roll of 1/2, the wielder suffers 1 wound with no armour saves allowed.

I'm pretty sure that means that it is a single wound with no multipliers. Although that might just be the grammar talking.

To be fair, that is the exact trigger for causing Multiple Wounds.
I am certain that is the grammar talking.

No leaps of logic need to be taken at all:

"Any unsaved wounds caused by the Fellblade are multiplied into D6 wounds"

"On a roll of 1-2 the wielder suffers 1 wound..."

What caused the wound? The Fellblade. What do unsaved wounds caused by the Fellblade do? Multiply into D6 wounds.

Now, if they had FAQ'd it to say "replace 'any unsaved wounds caused by the Fellblade are multiplied into D6 wounds' to 'the Fellblade has the Multiple Wounds (D6) special rule'", we could argue this way and that. But as it stands? A little careless wording has rendered this weapon terrible beyond compare.