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8th is the edition that introduced a lot of really awesome ideas and yet introduced a couple of things that really kill the game for me, making it by RAW one of the worst editions IMO for me (even worse than the 7th edition snorefest and the 5th edition hero hammer)

The main things that I dislike about this edition RAW (houserules make this edition a blast but sadly those are houserules and only work with a set group of people)

* all or nothing victory points encouraging deathstar mega blob points denial games

* the #6 spells destroying units wholesale making people believe that "level 4 wizards are mandatory as they make their points back the best", creating mirror builds where each side often consists of a large blob and a mandatory level 4 wizard

* weak miscast effects encouraging players to 6 dice ftw spells while chanting "come on double 6 come on double 6"

* building rules that defy physics and suspension of belief by being able to evaporate units in and out without needing a door and making scenarios like watchtower infuriating. Stark comparison to 40k rules as well which is also true line of sight but makes a bit more sense as you have to have entry points.

* lessening maneuverability impact by bringing in steadfast (a great rule actually) and making it all or nothing, while things like flanking provide a minor bonus that is canceled out entirely by steadfast, encouraging people to just shove their units forward and not worry as much about their flanks because odds are steadfast will save them and then they can just lulz reform in the unit that flanked them's face

Dealing with those quibbles, the edition is a giant success. Having to deal with those RAW, I wouldn't touch the edition with a ten foot pole and would rather find a different system that looks like armies fighting.

I blame historical games and having played them first for why these things bother me

Like every edition it has its good and bad characteristics.

Many will look back on it with fondness when 9th edition stupifies the rules, invalidates all the expensive 8th edition army books and kills the game in many local areas.

Get ready for huge and drastic changes in 9th edition because fantasy sales pale compared to 40k and both systems have similar development costs. GW is desperate to increase fantasy sales but I am rather certain they probably will just end up hurting the game.

The nerdrage will be epic when 9th lands, you can count on it.

JWhex wrote:

The nerdrage will be epic when 9th lands, you can count on it.

Its epic whenever any edition lands. 9th can't really do worse than 8th has in my locale.

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

JWhex wrote:

The nerdrage will be epic when 9th lands, you can count on it.

Its epic whenever any edition lands. 9th can't really do worse than 8th has in my locale.

While true, this time will be much more epic because there are solid rumors, (ie: Hastings says so), that all those expensive & shiny new $60 hardback army books will be instantly invalidated and we'll be going back to a Ravening Hordes style army lists for a while...

Mind you, as long as 9th moves the game away from pts-denial douche-baggery between 'uber deathstars & insta-gib entire unit spells, I think Fantasy might make a comeback in my area.

8th killed my local Fantasy scene in general because we have far too many numb-nuts who only play the boring 'Ardboyz style lists and actively seek to always break the damn game.
How I hate people who are only in this hobby to ruthlessly roflstomp others in order to boost their silly little egos!

I'm really happy with where 8th is, for the most part.

There are a few areas where I think it needs help though

- Steadfast is fine as it is, what needs to be fixed is flank charging (eg: monsters/MI or cavalry (not fast cav) should disrupt if they charge on the flank) this makes cavalry and monsters a problem, and makes flanks worth protecting

- I don't have a problem with the magic phase or uber spells. In our group these never get cast often enough to be a problem, and no one really uses death stars and so can take the loss of a unit IF it happens on the chin and still win. a scarier miscast table would be good.

- Bringing back half points for units half wiped out will go along way to halting deathstars

- the biggest let down of 8th is how hard it is to scale the games, magic in particular (scaling up magic never works right),

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

JWhex wrote:

The nerdrage will be epic when 9th lands, you can count on it.

Its epic whenever any edition lands. 9th can't really do worse than 8th has in my locale.

If Harry"s and Hastings' rumours pan out it will probably be more rage inspiring than 8th. I honestly thought people really over reacted to 8th edition especiallly about the pre-measuring and random charge distances.

The other thing about the rumored changes that is implicit in the rumour that the army books will be invalidated is that there will be major changes to the core rules, otherwise, why would the army books be invalidated? Most people playing 8th now are pretty happy with it and just want some minor changes, when GW completely restructures the game I think there will be a lot of justification if people have a strong negative reaction to wholesale changes.

If the army books are invalidated then that will also invalidate the Throne of Tamurkhan Chaos Dwarf list. Now fans of the Chaos Dwarfs are extremely dedicated and went without a list for a long time and would likely have purchased some expensive models from Forgeworld. If that list is nerfed without a replacement, just do not travel near the GW headquarters in Lenton for a couple of years if you are concerned about your personal safety!

JWhex wrote:

The other thing about the rumored changes that is implicit in the rumour that the army books will be invalidated is that there will be major changes to the core rules, otherwise, why would the army books be invalidated? Most people playing 8th now are pretty happy with it and just want some minor changes, when GW completely restructures the game I think there will be a lot of justification if people have a strong negative reaction to wholesale changes.

If they keep buying stuff for the game regardless of the possible shake up and invalidation of recent purchases, then GW aren't really going to be bothered by even more fan rage.

Quite glad I only bought a single book for 8th (VC) and either sold off or didn' update the rest of my armies. Not actually used that VC book yet as I felt really gipped by what my £25 actually bought me. Especially when I'd borrowed one of the FoW theatre books at that point and could compare the two.

What changes do people think will be in the 9th edition?

ShadowElfx wrote:
What changes do people think will be in the 9th edition?

Poor ones.

Stuff aimed at getting bigger or more minis on the table, so it'll be 6 wide for a rank bonus or something like that.

Allies rules as it'll help with people going out and buying a small allies force from GW.

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

ShadowElfx wrote:
What changes do people think will be in the 9th edition?

Poor ones.

Stuff aimed at getting bigger or more minis on the table, so it'll be 6 wide for a rank bonus or something like that.

Allies rules as it'll help with people going out and buying a small allies force from GW.

LOL, awesome, sucinct way to put it. I hate that you're probably right, but I'm still excited for the new shiny regardless. I love change! Some might call me... the lord of change...

Except more minis. I like the big stuff, but mainly because they're fun to paint. Lots of little guys that all look the same is less exciting for me, even though I appreciate their part in the overall game.

I like 8th (only played a few games of 7th before 8th came in) but i do think that the steadfast rules should include the caveat that if you are flanked or charged in the rear, your steadfast is gone. The Magic (uber-spells) could probably use being toned down some too.... pretty good rules overall though

Killjoy00 wrote:
Rumors are 9th edition in 2015. What has been your experience with 8th edition? Love it, hate it?

The rules and balance of the game are pure poop. And GW knows it.

The models sure are pretty though.

I hate the rules of charging in 8th
Not so much about the random movement (even though I dislike it), but more the "teleport" charge where you measure from the 2 closests points in the respective units and just forget about wheeling and such, thus giving a horde a free 15 inches wheel for instance
It makes manoeuver and positionning that much less useful, it's closer to 40K when it comes to movement, which is very bad

So where are all the Fantasy players moving to?

Kings of War?

I like it.
The last version of WHFB I played before it was 3rd ed, though.
I'm still getting to grips with the new HE army book.

Started playing last year with HE.

Previous army (3rd ed) was woodies.
They got stolen.

I don't know anyone who plays Kings of War. Honestly, I think most people are just looking for a good game with good models and rules, and the "fantasy" aspects don't matter as much. Of course, most people will only get into games that they can actually play, which unfortunately means that most people who don't play WHFB end up playing 40K because so many of the other games are difficult to find players for. Maybe Warmahordes.

I have not actually had a chance to try out KOW, but I have heard overall good things about the rules themselves. Heard that the system is very good, so I might try it out sometime!

* all or nothing victory points encouraging deathstar mega blob points denial games

* the #6 spells destroying units wholesale making people believe that "level 4 wizards are mandatory as they make their points back the best", creating mirror builds where each side often consists of a large blob and a mandatory level 4 wizard

In my experience these things are the exact counter for the other, which suggests balance? Deathstars are only a problem when people decide to comp spells like Dwellers, 13th, Purple Sun/Pit and Final Transmutation. If you don't comp them then people have to put all of their characters into that one unit, cast your #6 six times and collect their characters. 90% of the zomg deathstar armies I've seen can't actually kill anything because it's just one or two big units walking around the board which can never make combat. In my national scene anyone who deathstars tends to get tabled by the good players who are all using fast mobile armies that control the movement phase and can crack deathstars with shooting and magic.

I love 8th edition and I'll love 9th edition.

Being the third edition of WHFB that I've played I have enjoyed this edition the most. There are a few niggling issues with things like steadfast and ridiculously over-powered spells but on the whole it has been a step in the right direction.
The only downside is with the massive price increases WHFB, it looks to be heading towards becoming a dead hobby. It's already hard enough finding a game at my local club and tournaments seem to be almost non-existent.

Tournaments depend on where you live.

Newcastle area (and hunter) has at least two tourneys a year.
Sydney has at least one a month somewhere.

With three of them being in "club" run conventions (multi-tournament setups in large halls/schools).

Outside of NSW, I can't help, though. There are players in Brisbane that I know of though.

I like 8th Edition a great deal. The last thing I want to see is it ruined by multiple very small, and in my opinion, unnecessary rules like in 40k.(Overwatch, Snapshot etc.) Also I really do not want to see fliers in 9th, how likely or possible that is to happen, I don't like them in 40k, and do not want to see them elsewhere.

I like just about everything for Fantasy, though some things could use some adjustments; Cavalry, Victory Points, multiple combats, and other things along those lines.

Sneaky_Gobbo wrote:

I love 8th edition and I'll love 9th edition.

I'd wait until 9th drops before saying that.....................

One of the biggest issues, as everyone has been saying, is magic and spells.

I do like that now i do not have to play against someone with 6-8 dispell scrolls.

But, yes big money spells need to change

Last thing: if they would bring back double 1's is not only a miscast but the spell does not go off as well.

Redude max casting dice to 4 for Lore of Life, Death and Shadow. 5 for the rest. LOS! against 6th spells. Max. 2 addtional power / dispel dice per turn per army.

Magic phase almost fixed.

 Dakkamite wrote:
So where are all the Fantasy players moving to?

I totally don't mean to poop on anyone's party here. I hate when people do that in other threads. But I am one of the people who just faded out when 8th hit. I gave it a try for a few games and was pretty excited, but, I just didn't like 8th for the following reasons -

1. Steadfast. Dumb, dumb, dumb and felt like such a blatant money grab. Flankers not disrupting steadfast just makes the game line em up and knock em down.

2. Random power dice for magic. "Oh, look. I rolled snake eyes. Again" Depending on the whim of the dice your 450 point caster is either a gimp or a god.

3. Hordes. I actually really like this rule, but it meant that to optimize my army I'd need to buy and paint 40 - 50 more chumps. Eff that with a capital eff.

Really the main turnoff was that in order to retool my army for 8th, I would need to buy and paint a bunch of models and re-do a bunch of my movement trays. No thanks. I'm too lazy to do that just to play some games.

So my WoC army collects dust.

I don't hate 8th. I just don't care to play it. I will say, however, that the local Fantasy scene seems to be just as robust as it was during 7th.

The new WoC might be right up your street then. They really epitomise the move the game has taken from lots and lots of infantry when the game first hit, to now being all about low model count high impact units- much like 7th edition.

Most WoC lists look exactly like a lot of 7th edition armies did- a monster lord, some chariots, maybe a block of infantry (if you're feeling fluffy), some cavalry and some rare toys.

"There's to much magic here" also I dont like the rolling all magic items into the main rulebook and cavalry needs to be made more effective again.

Although it nerfed my favourite army (WE) into the dust, if that is the price of having a more balanced game overall, so be it.

Other than that, I'm actually fine with the new edition, still don't quite get why you don't get LOS against 6th spells though...

Other than that, I'm actually fine with the new edition, still don't quite get why you don't get LOS against 6th spells though...

To stop deathstarring.

The lack LOS vs auto-kill spells will always be a divisive issue I think, some people will love it others won't.

For the most part, I think a limited LOS would be good- I fully appreciate the idea that somebody who sticks 3-5 characters in one unit should be able to be made to pay, but at the same time that purpose of stopping Deathstars is just as effective as sniping a level 4 mage out of a bunker.

It's mainly for this reason that I would propose that the auto-kill spells allow a single LOS for the target unit. That way, mindlessly spamming it to try and snipe a level 4 out of a unit is a much harder prospect, but it can still hurt people who try and deathstar with multiple characters

You could push this to 2 LOS as some of the weaker armies really rely on having multiple characters in a unit, but then if you'll allow 2 why not allow 3 and so on an so forth which is why I would limit it at a flat 1 LOS for everyone.