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2013/05/15 06:10:36
Subject: 2K Competitive - Wraithwing Tesla-spam Necrons vs Triptide Riptide Tau (Completed)
Got in a competitive game against a really good Tau army. I am practicing for a 2K tournament and am thinking about bringing my necrons so asked him for a game. I've played against Adam 4 times before and he is the only person to have a winning record against me (not counting opponents who I've only played once before). I beat his Tau once with my daemons and he's beaten my daemons twice with his Tau. He also beat my space wolves once with his Imperial Guards. So going into this game, I knew I was going to be in for a tough fight. You can find our last fight in this battle report:
Since our last battle, my opponent has improved his list by adding another Riptide and more fire warriors. He also brought in eldar allies for some psychic defense as the good players in our area (me, Janthkin, SonsofGrant) normally run psychic-heavy armies. His Tau list is very balanced and would be something I would run if I were playing Tau. The only thing I think his list could use are some kroots for slightly more mobile scoring. Otherwise, it is a very good and very balanced list.
While I certainly respect the firepower of the Tau, I think my necrons can take them. He's got some tremendous firepower, however, he's got to get through 18 wraiths led by 2 2+ Destroyer Lords. He also has problems against AV13 vehicles such as my barges. But what will really hurt him are my troops in their flying croissants. That's how I normally win my games and with Taudar's lack of mobility, this advantage is even more pronounced (assuming my troops can get away from his shooting). All in all, I think my opponent should be a slight underdog in this game. It'll be rough. He may even shoot down all my wraiths but my prediction is that my croissants will win it for me.
My first impression of his army was.....damn, that's a lot of shooting. Enough to even make my wraiths cringe. First turn, he's going to have 50 S5 shots + potentially 36 rending S6 shots and more. Then when I get into his "sweet spot" - 15"or closer - I'm looking at 150 S5 shots, 36 S6 shots + change! And finally, I will be charging into another 150+36 shots!!! All the while, he will probably be hitting on at least BS5 from Markerlights and with re-rolls to wound from Doom. I seriously doubt the resiliency of my wraiths compared to all that firepower!
Then when my flyers come in, I need to avoid his 36" intercepting riptides. 12 S6 rending shots will make a mockery of my AV11 flyers so I can't expect to come in with them to alpha-strike his forces. That means a reduction of my firepower and my movement is restricted as well. I can't take a "direct" path to his army to target the units I want, not unless I want to get shot down. Instead, I need to circumvent the threat radius of his riptides.
Riptides are to Tau as heldrakes are to Chaos. They are to Tau what Vendettas are to the Imperial Guards or annihilation barges/wraiths are to the crons. Riptides are without a doubt the single best unit in their young codex. The triple-riptide Tau list will probably be one of the most competitive Tau lists. Excellent firepower, high resiliency and their best anti-air option - these guys will be a problem for me in much the same way my annihilation barges will be a (minor) problem to him. I just may have to ignore them like I normally do against all the other units I am not so good in killing. In most of his games, they usually do the most damage and they nearly always survive. Heck, I am probably the only opponent to ever take out of his riptides....but that was back when he was only running 2. They make for an interesting barometer on how his army will do. While not a VIP target, the more riptides you can kill, the better off you probably are.
Finally, terrain will play a very important factor here. There is no area terrain for me to hide. My opponent set up terrain before I came and while he put up ample terrain, he didn't really put up any LOS-blocking terrain. Now I could have switched it up and added some LOS-blocking terrain....but I decided not to. The true test of a championship-caliber army is they need to have the ability to deal with any adverse conditions, like unfavorable terrain or going 2nd against a gunline army. Because in a tournament environment, you can't always expect things to go your way. Sometimes, you are dealt a bad hand and you just have to deal with it. Adapt to the situation and adjust your tactics. That is the mark of a good general. In any case, I thought that terrain would just make me have to work harder and I relished the challenge.
Necrons:
Here is why I think I will win. It is a principle I call Positional Dominance, and this is what my army is a master of. Positional Dominance is basically whoever can control the Movement phase in an objectives-based scenario has the advantage. If I can stop him from advancing by throwing a lot of fast threats at him, then he will be out of position to reach the objectives in the late game, even if he shoots down all my units. I am pressing him and basically setting up my troops on the objectives (actually, with my night scythes, I don't even need to expose my troops so early) while he is defending and staying still. Basically, it is his game to lose as he is defending his objectives and never really threatening mine. Even if he is able to successfully defend his objective, he can't really reach mine so at best, it will be a draw. However, if he fails, then I will be contesting his objective while keeping mine. At least that is the philosophy behind my strategy. No, the game won't be won on his shooting or my assault. The game will be won in the Movement phase and that is why the necrons are so good. They are, without a shadow of a doubt, the new masters of the Movement phase.
But for my strategy to work, I need to make sure I do 3 very important things:
1) Prevent him from advancing. Most people make the assumption that the wraiths are there to try to kill the enemy in assault. Well, that is one way to beat your opponent. However, the true purpose of my wraiths are to stop my opponents from advancing. Keep them on the defensive and to focus on my wraiths. So come Turn 5 after they've killed all my wraiths, then it hits them like a truck how far they are from the objectives. That is one of the reasons why wraiths are necessary in my list. They are there to control my opponent's Movement phase.
2) Most people would think that you need to kill off the enemy troops to win. That's true in most cases but sometimes extremely difficult to do, especially when you have limited firepower against troops that can go-to-ground for 2+ cover behind the Aegis (which, ironically, is actually ok for me as it stops their mobility). However, what I really need to do is to kill off his mobility. Take out any fast units - his guardian jetbikes and even his suits/riptides - that can reach my objectives. I especially need to kill off his jetbikes, as I can control where his suits/riptides will move with my wraiths there. They won't be advancing as long as I have my wraiths in his way. So my strategy is to stop his advancement and kill off any units fast enough to threaten my objectives.
3) Kill off his Ethereal. While his riptides may be the best units in his army, his Warlord, the Ethereal, is the single most important unit in his army. Heck, in any Tau army. If I can kill him, then I have a chance. If not, then I will probably lose. That is just how important his Warlord is. And it doesn't hurt that he gives up a extra Victory Point when killed.
So I am expecting a bloodbath in this battle. I may come out more battered than my opponent, but I feel that if I stick to my philosophy/strategy, then I will have the better chance for a victory, no matter how many units I need to sacrifice. Man, this is going to be a fun game.
Necrons: +1 VP for every character killed in a challenge.
Tau: -1 to the opponent's Reserves.
No Night-fight.
The 3 Objectives. 2 on my side and 1 in the middle. I won the row to place objectives first and then I won the roll to pick sides.
That should helpe balance out the fact that there isn't any LOS-blocking terrain in the table.
Tau deployment. With the exception of his guardian jetbikes, he deploys everything. His Warlord (the Ethereal) joins a unit of pathfinders and his farseer joins another unit of pathfinders (in the ruins).
I deploy directly across from him, making sure to lead with my Destroyer Lords. My Warlord is on the very right flank.
Night scythes, of course, are in reserves.
Despite this being an objective-based mission, I actually wanted to go first. Because if I can go first, I may just be able to avoid his very dangerous 15" shooting (what I refer to as his "sweet spot"). I would only have to endure 1 turn of shooting and then Overwatch. But since my opponent is going first, now I'm going to have to endure 2 turns of Tau shooting plus Overwatch....unless I can seize the initiative.
Do Tau even need a Movement phase? Practically the only guys in his army who moves is his commander's unit.
We then go straight into the pain. His markerlight lights are astounding, getting 4, 7 and 8 hits respectively! Yes, 1 unit of BS3 pathfinders hit with all 7 of their shots!
Ohhhh....I feel the pain. First Blood goes to Tau for wiping out my right unit of wraiths.
On my left, he takes out 2 wraiths and my Warlord!
My Warlord would then fail to get back up!!!
So with only single-shots from his pulse rifles and no over-charge from his Riptides, he is able to take out 8 wraiths and a Destroyer Lord. I can't imagine what will happen once I get within his sweet spot and his riptides go into Super-Saiyan mode. \
He's also got First Blood and Slay the Warlord already.
Suits and riptides then jump back in the Assault phase.
Necrons 1
Spoiler:
My crons advance. Barges move 12".
I then fire at his Ethereal's unit. He goes to ground. Only his Ethereal and 1 pathfinder survives.
Wraiths then run forwards.
Now I can only hope that I can make some saves next turn. It is in the Dice God's hands now.
Tau 2
Spoiler:
Again, 2 of his Riptides fail to over-charge and take wounds instead. That's 5 out of 6 failed over-charges and 5W on his riptides from over-charging.
His Ethereal gives the command for triple-fire within rapid-fire range of his fire warriors.
Suits get into plasma double-tap range. His successfully over-charged riptide moves back.
More markerlight hits.
2 of his units are within 15" of my wraiths. Combined with Doom and markerlights and his shooting is astounding!
When the smoke clears, I only have 1 wraith left standing.
At least this time, my D-lord (still Doomed) gets back up.
Man, things have gone from bad to worse for me. While I didn't show it, inside I was stunned. WTF happened to my invincible wraiths, the same ones who once survived 2 turns of shooting from a space wolf army with 26 missile launchers! You could say that now I was beginning to have doubts about my ability to win this game.
Necrons 2
Spoiler:
2 night scythes come in, even with the -1 to my Reserves. I make sure to come in outside the range of his riptides. So even though they are in, they are pretty much ineffective this turn as they have no targets to shoot at.
I make a mistake here. I forget that his 2 right riptides were not over-charged. I could have taken a gamble try to alpha-strike his guys.
Wraith and D-lord advance. They are separate units currently.
My AB's move 6" only.
I forget to take the picture, but my barges are able to finally finish off his Warlord and lone pathfinder. Tesla arcing kills maybe 1 or 2 fire warriors only, both this turn and last turn. I rolled poorly for it.
I try to assault, but both my D-lord and the wraith fall to Overwatch.
There is still a glimmer of hope as my D-lord gets back up once again.
Tau 3
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 3.
Guardian jetbikes come in.
Tau movement. I believe this turn, all his riptides successfully over-charge.
One of his riptides dies to over-charge overheat (failed 2 Gets Hot! saves).
But not before he takes one of the annihilation barges with him.
They shoot down my D-lord. He would not get up a 3rd time. Suits jump forwards in the Assault phase.
The rest of his shooting fail to do any real damage to my barges.
Jetbikes turbo-boost. 1 of the riptides jumps forwards.
Necrons 3
Spoiler:
1 more night scythes comes in. I am able to keep out of range of his interceptors by hugging the table edges.
Barges shuffle around. This turn, I am going after his command squad because 1) I don't like their fusion guns and 2) they are a threat to my objectives.
Right scythes go after his jetbikes.
Actually, I take it back. One of his riptides is in range to intercept my flyer. I am forced to jink but the Tau still manages to immobilize my night scythe.
1 night scythe kills off his jetbikes.
The other one then wrecks his hammerhead thanks to rolling 2 6's to hit, thus giving me about 8 hits total.
Finally, my snap-shooting, immobilized NS and my 2 AB's focus on his command unit and blows away both of the fusion bodyguards.
Wow....what a great turn of shooting for the necrons!
Tau 4
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 4.
The Tau starts to head out.
Commander advances. His shooting would do nothing to my AB. BTW, my AB already lost 2 HP's to Tau shooting earlier (only glances).
He manages to take off another 1 HP from my night scythe.
Riptide blows away their 1st night scythe.
Finally, we go into assault. His commander actually assaults my AB.
Needing 6's to glance, he manages to get 1 and wreck it! Crap, I only have 1 AB left.
Necrons 4
Spoiler:
Immobilized flyer moves straight ahead. AB goes after his commander.
My other scythe zooms forwards.
Shooting kills off his marker drones and puts 1W on his Commander. I forget he has Iridium armor on! Otherwise, I probably would have target his fire warriors instead.
Fortunately for me, he fails Morale and falls back!
The other scythe shoots down 2 fire warriors only....not enough for a Morale test.
Tesla arcing has been dismal in this game. I should be hitting and killing a lot more troops than I have been doing, considering how tightly pact together they all were.
Tau 5
Spoiler:
It is now night-fight.
His riptide fails to over-charge and takes another 1 Wound (2W remaining).
Fire warriors make it to the objective....and they get Skyfire!
Commander regroups.
Shooting blows up my immobilized flyer. Thanks. My opponent just did me a favor because now my troops can come in to claim an objective.
He shoots at my warriors. Because it is night and I am more than 24" away from his guys, I am getting 2+ cover due to being Shrouded. He still manages to kill 4 guys!
However, 1 would get back up after passing Morale.
He fires the rest of his army at my other night scythe, including his troops on the Skyfire objective. Fortunately, his markerlights miss and I make some of my jink saves. My flyer survives with just 1 HP left.
His riptide then jumps forwards(?), but he is still too far from my objective.
Necrons 5
Spoiler:
Moment of truth. I am betting that the game will not go on. So if the game ends this turn, I will win. If not, Adam will probably table me as he should be in range next turn to shoot at my troops.
My troops from the immobilized NS come in, but fearing his intercepting riptide, I try to make it into terrain but only get 2" for my movement.
NS heads back and drops off its troops near my objective.
The other NS drops off its troops as well. I have 2 units of troops here for redundancy.
NS and AB then go after his warriors.
Night scythe actually shoots down his riptide!!! But to be fair, it lost 1W last turn due to Get's Hot! and only had 1W remaining.
Barge then fire at his troops on his objective and kill only 2.
However, they would then fail Morale and fall back!
So currently, I have 1 objective here.
And another there.
My opponent has no objectives as his troops just ran off it.
If the game ends now, I will take it 8 (2 objectives + 2 VP's for his Warlord Ethereal) to 2 (First Blood, Warlord). If it goes on, he has a very good chance to table me.
I ask him if he wants to roll for the End Game. He tells me that I could do it.
Bad mistake on his part, as I have been rolling low almost all game (rolled a lot of 1's and 2's for my saves).
I then roll to see if the game continues and a roll a 2!
Not only do the necrons steal one, but because I have more than double his Victory Points, it is a......
Crushing Victory for the Metallic Dead - Necrons!!!
Wow....I got beaten up pretty badly. I knew Tau firepower was good, but even I didn't expect him to wipe out all my wraiths and 2 HQ's in 2.5 turns of shooting. Normally, my wraiths are fairly resilient but in this game, I just wasn't making my saves. I was not able to stop his advancement like I had originally planned, at least not with my wraiths. However, I did manage to throw enough distractions at him to make him forget about the objectives, at least until it was too late for him. You really have to pay attention to the missions when you are facing the crons. They can get to the objectives at will, whereas most armies need to plan for it and "keep their eyes on the ball". That is one of the major strengths of the necrons - they play the Movement phase like no other can.
To be fair, I don't believe my opponent has much, if any, experience against a competitive necron army. Most of the guys at our LGS don't really run necron flyers and the ones who do (i.e. me, Janthkin, Ministry) are actually playing other armies currently. Thus, I don't know if he has any real exposure to the necron flyers. It's like my 1st necron battle against Grant's seer council deldar. He really had no idea as to the "reach" of my flyers. The same thing happened here. My opponent had no idea about the reach of my night scythes and I made him pay with his guardian jetbikes. Also, had he not destroyed my immobilized night scythe, I wouldn't have been able to get them onto an objective (or near the objective). He will get better as he plays more against necron flyers, but for this game, I had the element of surprise.
In any case, my opponent should have won this game, but some tactical mistakes cost him. Where did he go wrong?
1. He didn't play aggressive enough with his army. As most people pointed out, he should have advanced them much earlier. I attribute this to the over-cautiousness that is most Tau players. It may also be due to a lack of experience. I'm sure he will improve over time with regards to when to start mobilizing his units.
2. He was too enamored with trying to shoot down my flyers. My flyers were actually a better "distraction" unit in this game than my wraiths. So every turn, he was trying to over-charge his guns when he probably should have went for the 4D6" jump in the last couple of turns for his riptides.
3. He didn't spread out his riptides enough. This allowed my flyers to come in unmolested. It did negate a turn of shooting for them, but overall, I think he was too focused on trying to take them out to really see the threat that they presented to the objectives. In order words, he was too focused on trying to shoot them down that he forgot to actually move towards my objectives. Maybe he just wasn't concerned because he thought he could shoot them all down? I can't say for sure.
4. He under-estimated the "reach" of my scythes and paid for it with his jetbikes.
5. He didn't move his pathfinders at all. If he had done that, they might have been in range to markerlight my warriors in the end. That would have meant no cover for them. Instead, my warriors were beyond the reach of his pathfinders.
Overall, my opponent played well, but not well enough. He could have and should have easily beaten my crons this game, but a few tactical errors and unfamiliarity with my army cost him the game. Well, that....and a little bit of luck on my part (i.e. the game ending when I needed it to). My philosophy of Positional Dominance worked, but not really in the way I intended. My wraiths were not able to stop his advancement, however, I was able to distract him long enough to secure the victory.
Tau MVP:Fire Warriors - It's close between all 4 of his units - fire warriors, riptides, commander's unit and pathfinders. Pathfinders did make his shooting much deadlier. Riptides help to take out wraiths, flyers and 1 annihilation barge. The commander and his unit took out 1 AB, the destroyer lord and some wraiths. However, I'd give it to his warriors just because their shooting did the majority of the damage.
Tau Runner-Up:Riptides - Not only did they have a hand in hurting all my units - the wraiths, AB and flyers - but they also served to restrict the movement of my flyers. They did a respectable amount of damage and affected the way I played, forcing me to play much more conservatively with my flyers than I normally do. If only 1 had made it to one of my objectives to contest, I would have hands-down given them the MVP award for the Tau.
Necron MVP:Night Scythes - They were clutch in this game. They survived a huge amount of firepower, helped to finish off 1 riptide, the guardian jetbikes and the ionhead (hammerhead with Ion Cannon). They also broke the fire warriors on his objective, thus giving my crons the Crushing Victory, as well as dropping off the troops for the victory.
Necron Runner-Up:Riptides - LOL! These guys did more damage to themselves than my necrons did! I believed I only did 1W to his riptides. He did 11-12W to himself from failed over-charges and overheating. Can you believe he killed off an entire Riptide (that's 5W!) by himself?!? Definitely some bad rolling for the riptides, but that's probably the only bad dice he had in this game.
This message was edited 13 times. Last update was at 2013/05/16 21:46:05
I think the Tau army has a slight advantage because you have to come to him and play his game. First round of shooting will hurt your wraiths simply to much and he can simply "ignore" your barges because the can only shoot at fire warriors behind a defence line. After that the riptides will dominate the midfield and eating croissants for breakfast. Necron only stands a chance if those wraiths get true and i thinks thats only going to happen if the Tau player makes a big mistake or really sucks at shooting at the first and second turn.
Still would like to see how this turns out!
2013/05/15 06:45:52
Subject: 2K Competitive - Wraithwing Tesla-spam Necrons vs Triptide Riptide Tau
I think the Tau are going to struggle to deal with the night scythes as they don't seem to have any high strength ranged weapons except the ion cannon the hammerhead (I could be wrong as I don't know what the overcharged burst cannons on the riptides do).
I think if the necron player can get this wraiths and lords in early and support with the scythes then the necrons will take it.
A couple of decent rounds shooting from markerlighted fire warriors could do a number on those wraiths though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/15 06:47:19
Chaos Space Marines - Iron Warriors & Night Lords 7900pts
2013/05/15 06:50:14
Subject: 2K Competitive - Wraithwing Tesla-spam Necrons vs Triptide Riptide Tau
fierce fight for the Necrons. really wish i can see the Terrain. Though they could use more scoring mobility, that's the only weakness i see. more jetbikes or outflanking kroot perhaps?
can't wait to see the report!
for the emperor
2013/05/15 06:52:48
Subject: 2K Competitive - Wraithwing Tesla-spam Necrons vs Triptide Riptide Tau
I think the Tau army has a slight advantage because you have to come to him and play his game. First round of shooting will hurt your wraiths simply to much and he can simply "ignore" your barges because the can only shoot at fire warriors behind a defence line. After that the riptides will dominate the midfield and eating croissants for breakfast. Necron only stands a chance if those wraiths get true and i thinks thats only going to happen if the Tau player makes a big mistake or really sucks at shooting at the first and second turn.
Still would like to see how this turns out!
I defintely wanted to go 1st, that's for sure. It would've given him 1 less turn to shoot with.
rohansoldier wrote: I think the Tau are going to struggle to deal with the night scythes as they don't seem to have any high strength ranged weapons except the ion cannon the hammerhead (I could be wrong as I don't know what the overcharged burst cannons on the riptides do).
I think if the necron player can get this wraiths and lords in early and support with the scythes then the necrons will take it.
A couple of decent rounds shooting from markerlighted fire warriors could do a number on those wraiths though.
Overcharged Heavy Burst Cannons give him 12 S6 Rending shots. TL-SMS missiles also give him 4 TL-S5 shots that ignore cover.
And his Riptides have got both Skyfire and Interceptor. My opponent has got decent Anti-air firepower.
Deshkar wrote: fierce fight for the Necrons. really wish i can see the Terrain. Though they could use more scoring mobility, that's the only weakness i see. more jetbikes or outflanking kroot perhaps?
can't wait to see the report!
There is nowhere for my wraiths to hide. There is noLOS-blocking terrain.
i dont see what this is going to prove? other than a ripping good time!!!!
you have a 100% optimized necron list, he does not have a 100% optimized tau list, I dont even think we know what that is yet....
right off the bat i dont agree with burst cannons at all...they are not the best option for the riptide.
yes you can nova for 12 shots (all of which are gets hot and only str 6) plus your missiles is 16 shots, with the ion cannon you can have 8 sms twin linked missiles from nova (str 7) and 3 ion shots (str 7) that do not get hot...and the ion cannon can be overcharged for blast. Overall, you got better options.
Personally, I will take 5 less shots that are all higher strength and 8 of them (vs 4) are twin linked which is way better vs air since the pathfinder markers are not going to light up any croissants.
basic math hammer - burst cannon 12 burst cannons hit 6 times (2 gets hot), doing 2 glances/pens (rending could be nice?) and 4 sms do 1.5 ---total of 3.5 (with less chance of pens vs glances)
ion accelerator - 3 shots doing .75 and 8 sms missiles will get 3 glances/pens - means 3.75 glances/pens (with WAY higher chance of pens)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/15 07:42:49
you have a 100% optimized necron list, he does not have a 100% optimized tau list, I dont even think we know what that is yet....
You have a good point. Although wraithwing is everywhere which disappoints me. No creativity to the list, just throw wraithwing at people to as a take-all-comers list.
DR:70+S--G-M-B++IPw40k03--D++A+/fWD-R-T(R)DM+
2013/05/15 08:43:27
Subject: 2K Competitive - Wraithwing Tesla-spam Necrons vs Triptide Riptide Tau
I'm actually going with the Tau in this one. The Flyers seem to be the biggest threat, but all 3 Riptides combined should be able to take out 2 flyers on the turn they arrive.
With no LOS blocking terrain, I wouldn't be surprised if the Tau can wipe out a unit of wraiths on turn 1. If the Tau really need to, they can put over 80 wounds into the Wraiths if they get too close (end their turn 20" or closer) not counting Doom. And that's just from the Fire Warriors.
I'm rooting for jy2, but I actually expect this to be an uphill fight for the Necrons.
2013/05/15 09:44:28
Subject: 2K Competitive - Wraithwing Tesla-spam Necrons vs Triptide Riptide Tau
yeah tau can put out an obscene amount of mid-str fire, that's what is needed to put Wraiths down, and it also really depends on the amount and positioning of terrain. would be interesting to see how JY handles this.
for the emperor
2013/05/15 09:46:34
Subject: 2K Competitive - Wraithwing Tesla-spam Necrons vs Triptide Riptide Tau
Providing the Wraiths never get into melee, and the flyers are delayed it could be a easy victory to the Tau, in the case where all wraiths get into melee and all the flyers come in at the same time, Tau will struggle.
2013/05/15 11:26:02
Subject: Re:2K Competitive - Wraithwing Tesla-spam Necrons vs Triptide Riptide Tau
If the Tau can put a big enough dent in the Wraiths on Turn 1, then this will be a tough fight for the Crons. When the Flyers come on, those Triptides need to take down 1 or 2 right away to give the Tau any hope of holding the crons at bay. Plenty of ML hits will help the Triptides and the FW squads tear those Wraths apart, but only for one turn at full effectivness. It'll be interesting to see how the Wraiths do against Tau supporting fire Overwatch too.
If the Tau take enough Wraiths down turn 1, they have a shot.
The Hammerhead is gonna struggle against the AB's alone. There isnt much anti-AV13 in the Tau list, so its gonna have its hands full. Although the Commander and his unit could DS next to one. But that leaves them very vulnerable.
The AB's can also put the hurt on both the FW's and potentially the Riptides. Or Glance the HHead plenty.
The crons need at least 2 flyers to come on Turn 2, and ideally more to really stretch the Tau shooting.
If the Wraiths reach the Riptides then they are in for some hurt too. Rend and whip coils will bring them down, even if the Tides Smash to ID them. They just dont have the attacks or WS to hold their own I reckon.
Should be a good game!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/15 11:26:59
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2013/05/15 11:32:37
Subject: 2K Competitive - Wraithwing Tesla-spam Necrons vs Triptide Riptide Tau
I agree that your necrons are a lot worse off than you think they are. All wraiths are are fast MEQ when the opponent stacks a mass amount of low ap high str shots. If he focuses he should be able to able to take out one unit a turn. This game will come down to luck and that's it. If Jy2 can make enough saves early in the game, he wins. There isn't really much strategy involved when you have fast cc units vs a gun line.
2013/05/15 12:18:41
Subject: Re:2K Competitive - Wraithwing Tesla-spam Necrons vs Triptide Riptide Tau
As a seasoned Tau player I predict this game will come down to three key factors:
1. Tau Deployment
2. Whether or not Necrons Seize the Initiative
3. The amount of Wraiths the Tau Player kills in first two turns
With this Tau list, I would pour everything I had into the three wraith squads. Which is a lot. And turn two is probably just going to be a slowed amount of shots assuming whatever is left will be within 15in of those firewarriors (3 shots each warrior). Those heavy burst cannons will help against the wraiths too. Those barges and lords can do some damage too, but are not by any means that threat that those wraiths pose. The flyers can be annoying, but those riptides will slowly grind them down. Even if they only kill one flyer from intercepting turn 2, they will blow the others apart as the game goes on.
If you can have just one wraith from each squad and the two Lords survive for a turn two charge, you'll have a good chance, but only if everything makes it and charges separate units.
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2013/05/15 14:00:19
Subject: 2K Competitive - Wraithwing Tesla-spam Necrons vs Triptide Riptide Tau
I think Crons win. Those D-Lord can take a lot shots and if only a few models make it into the gunline it might be over. I think Jy2 will be able to keep a Scythe or 2 out of skyfire range and play the objective game at the very least. Also, Anni Barge damage starts to add up quickly when they are left untouched, which they will be in this game.
Doom will hurt, but any Tau list without hymp-sides is doing something wrong.
I ran an identical necron list at 1850 (subtract one of the flyers+5 warriors). I found I was losing a lot due to my HQ getting clobbered thus giving up slay the warlord - or at least that didn't help matters with even number objective games. So I took an overlord as the HQ instead and stuck him in one of the scythes for added protection. I also swapped out one of the wraith units for a butt load of scarabs (2 bases can usually take out most vehicles).
I think the wraiths are going have a hard time of it. At least they'll be bullet magnets. Most of my games end with the wraiths almost extinct but I either hold or contest needed objectives starting turn 5 - and pray for the game to end
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/15 14:07:34
2013/05/15 14:31:16
Subject: 2K Competitive - Wraithwing Tesla-spam Necrons vs Triptide Riptide Tau
hippesthippo wrote: I think Crons win. Those D-Lord can take a lot shots and if only a few models make it into the gunline it might be over. I think Jy2 will be able to keep a Scythe or 2 out of skyfire range and play the objective game at the very least. Also, Anni Barge damage starts to add up quickly when they are left untouched, which they will be in this game.
Doom will hurt, but any Tau list without hymp-sides is doing something wrong.
Exactly, those RT'd are very expensive right there and he probably would have been better off with a unit or two of HYMP B-sides.
This game is slanted heavily toward the necrons though, anyone who doesn't think so has been asleep for most of 6th. This is a 3 objective game where tau have the softest targets for first blood, no real threat for line breaker and a VERY weak warlord point given up by the Ethereal. Not to mention the necrons can simply skirt the range of the RT's interceptor fire, oh and did I mention he has troops in NS in and objective game where he gets the last turn? Why is it so bad for him to go second? His wraiths and D-lords are throw away units, heck his A barges are too and considering how ridiculously under costed those units are for their resiliency I don't see thew Tau wining this one.
Tau suck at objectives, always have, still do. Where the DE struggle to hold objectives, the Tau simply can hardly ever get there
The Necrons will take this, its all about presenting to much targets.
Move Wraiths max forward, barges same so they have shots next turn.
In turn two you will either get wraith assaults or the ab en scythes taking down some riptides and almost guaranteed ethereal kill, after that its over ...
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2013/05/15 17:33:00
Subject: 2K Competitive - Wraithwing Tesla-spam Necrons vs Triptide Riptide Tau
I'm calling it a draw. Necrons get battered by shooting, but threat of wraiths keeps Tau from advancing till its too late. I think Tau take First Blood, and Warlord, and one objective, while Crons take one objective Warlord and linebreaker.
2013/05/15 17:41:30
Subject: Re:2K Competitive - Wraithwing Tesla-spam Necrons vs Triptide Riptide Tau
I think this will hinge on the Tau turn 2 shooting, especially target priority, as jy2 will minimise the alpha strike damage. If they can take down two wraith squads including a lord (res orbs could be big) then have two/three layers of bubble wrap to absorb the last squad then they will be in good shape to focus on the flyers, barges and move out with the tides to contest whilst holding one objective. Would be good to see the board and objective placement before making a call.
2013/05/15 17:55:31
Subject: Re:2K Competitive - Wraithwing Tesla-spam Necrons vs Triptide Riptide Tau
the wraiths died coming in, only 1 dlord made it in and he died to the crisis suits in melee?
the riptides seemed to have trouble dropping the croissants cause they didnt die very quickly it seems (one riptide died as well)
It looks like tau lost by objectives but almost wiped the necrons from the board.
if that last picture was the end of the game that is!
Also scrolled down the pictures. Really dont like the uneven objectives setup. If tau got to place 2 out of 3 objectives the won the game. Thats why my buddy and I always play with even objectives or place the third in the middle of the field.
2013/05/15 18:27:18
Subject: Re:2K Competitive - Wraithwing Tesla-spam Necrons vs Triptide Riptide Tau
the wraiths died coming in, only 1 dlord made it in and he died to the crisis suits in melee?
the riptides seemed to have trouble dropping the croissants cause they didnt die very quickly it seems (one riptide died as well)
It looks like tau lost by objectives but almost wiped the necrons from the board.
if that last picture was the end of the game that is!
Also scrolled down the pictures. Really dont like the uneven objectives setup. If tau got to place 2 out of 3 objectives the won the game. Thats why my buddy and I always play with even objectives or place the third in the middle of the field.
No, the game is designed with the possibility of uneven objectives on purpose. You need to develop an Army that has mobility, either mobile scoring or at least mobile contesting.
Edit: there is a lot I don't like about 6ed (notably random tables), but uneven objectives forces a new aspect of tactical thinking on what could easily be a gunline versus gunline edition.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/15 18:28:22
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2013/05/15 18:29:52
Subject: 2K Competitive - Wraithwing Tesla-spam Necrons vs Triptide Riptide Tau
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