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Well I have no opinion on this, but I would like to know what ANY ONE could have against Belgium as a nation. They have awesome food, and FN makes some of the finest firearms in the world.

I think the flash mob played right into Nigel's hands.

Trapping him in a pub, crickey, the police were proably called by the landlord to stop him drinking the place dry.

When the three main parties in the UK's government keep breaking their promises and are still neck deep in sleeze and jobs for the boys and girls then people are going to look for a credible alternative. The thing I find terribly amusing is watching Mr Farage on things like question time when the main parties representatives come across as very shallow, and attack the person (Mr Farage) rather than his arguments.

Mr Farage is not really my cup of tea. But them I have absolutely nothing in common with the rest of the leaders, can not identify with my local MP - I know who he is but I disagree with him being let to keep a few thousand he overclaimed in rent as he hadn't claimed any food allowance during the expenses scandal (I have to buy my own food at work!) - and so I think actually, out of the lot of them he's probably the one I would want to be stuck in a lift with (steady there now) and once he gets the funds to route out and BNP and silly sods that have crept into UKIP they will be very credible.

Slight aside
The funiest question time I have everwatched watched was with Nick Griffin (I certainly don't agree with any of his politics) but he is a very clever man. He presented clear concise arguments and responses to the questions asked. The funny bit was the conservative Baroness Warsi spending most of her time attacking him personally (rather than his politics) and interupting and generally being rude. All whilst appearing to hold very little opinions of her own. Has she got the heave ho yet? Has anyone voted for her yet?

 dæl wrote:

Why would it be a good idea to contest a claim which is so politically damaging?

It isnt polticially damaging. The Guardian printed it then, smearers in New Labour made pamphlets about it also, but Farage outlived the criticism. You and others like you are keeping it 'alive'. It looks like a simple case of trolling then. Skeds comments are after all a decade old.

 dæl wrote:

Since when were exasperation and racism mutually exclusive? If his own words aren't evidence enough of his disrespect for the people of another nation then I don't know what else would be.

Words in isolation are not. Which is why Diane Abbot is still an MP etc. Farage was insensed at an unelected and unaccountable President of Europe who by the way earns more in that position than Obama does.

 dæl wrote:

That article is a joke. It is a gross misrepresentation of gang crime as black crime. Blair was stupid enough to talk about black crime and faced a backlash for doing so. You cannot ascribe criminality to a race, or target a race under legislation, that is racist.

Why prove my point. Crime linked to ethnicity is very real, sweeping it under the carpet is dangerous to society. Just two days ago there were articles about Asian paedophile gangs targeting girls. Its swept under the carpet because it involves Asians and this the accusations are possibly "racist". However its acceptable to talk of "instituational racism" because some white in authority in the police are allegedly racist.
So it is ok to endorse ascribing criminality to a race anyway, you apply it to alleged hate crime if the perpetrator is white. A lot of the PC nonsense lot do that. This is why thay/you howl "racism" at some but not others. The imbalance is plain to see.

 dæl wrote:

That's not even in the same ball park as the comments by the Italian ministers, how are they comparable? That's not to say she wasn't racist, she was and is rightly judged on it, especially by the left who have no respect for her any more. But to compare it to those comments about Italy's first black minister?

I am not comparing Diana Abbot to the Italian MEP, I am comparing her to Farage. The Italian MEP is of no consequence, he have no reasonable connection to Farage and thus Farage is clearly not responsible for his alleged commentaries being in a completely different party in a different country.
The relevant point you missed is that Farage is hounded though you have yet to indicate that he is racist. While New Labour contains "racists" but you don't hound them.

 dæl wrote:

It far easier to take his policies apart, they are uncosted, badly thought out, and would cause large amounts of damage to this country both economically and socially.

Why didnt youn try that track to begin with, bashing UKIP policies is more mature than trying to smear Farage.

 dæl wrote:

They are a single issue party and have no long term plan for the country after that issue is resolved.

I am not sure thats true, UKIP was ceertainly founded in an anti-Federalist note but has evolved since then. However its a common sentiment Farage needs to address.

Did you read those articles? If those views aren't fascist then I don't know what is. Neither have been suspended for making such statements.

Farage isn't a 'fascist' and its possible you actually don't know what fascism actually is. 'Fascist' is just a buzzword to you for anyone with right wing ideology with concerns over immigration. Fascism actually is something different.
Besides I am calling you out on your accusation of Farage being a 'Nazi', which is more specific and even worse.
Nazi is a term brought out to smear critics of multi-culturalism by left wing extremists, and is a common smear word amongst students like the scum who harassed Farage yesterday.

Defend or withdraw you accusation that I am a hypocrite. What have I said which is hypocritical?

 Mr Hyena wrote:
Not enough really, since Westminster still has some say in Scottish affairs.

I look forward so seeing if the north of England votes with you to turn the county of Scotland back into a country after several hundred years of united rule.

I look forward even more, should the vote be for yes, to seeing the rest of the UK using its far superior position to get the best deal for the people of the UK.

It will be interesting how long the revoultion takes to overthrow independance once the north sea deposits run out and there is no money left. Or even more entertainingly if they are not ceeded to scotland.

In relation to the topic - glad to see people are keeping things classy. Protest all you want, but there are limits to the kind of behaviour you can engage in.

 Jasper wrote:
I think the flash mob played right into Nigel's hands.

Not at all, this is the first in what will be common occurrences of dissent against UKIPs hateful agenda. It shows the fact that there are more who don't agree with UKIP than do.

When the three main parties in the UK's government keep breaking their promises and are still neck deep in sleeze and jobs for the boys and girls then people are going to look for a credible alternative. The thing I find terribly amusing is watching Mr Farage on things like question time when the main parties representatives come across as very shallow, and attack the person (Mr Farage) rather than his arguments.

What arguments? That Mercedes will still sell their cars here if we leave Europe? Except that depends on whether we get a free trade agreement, and have to still abide by EU legislation. Or, as is more likely, we will have to pay import taxes on the car, raising it's price by a sizeable percentage. Food prices will go through the roof if EU subsidies go. Lots of businesses will leave the country.

Other than Europe his policies are even less thought out. Get rid of national insurance? So where are you finding the massive amount of revenue you lost, how else are you paying for doubling the prison population.

Mr Farage is not really my cup of tea. But them I have absolutely nothing in common with the rest of the leaders, can not identify with my local MP - I know who he is but I disagree with him being let to keep a few thousand he overclaimed in rent as he hadn't claimed any food allowance during the expenses scandal (I have to buy my own food at work!) - and so I think actually, out of the lot of them he's probably the one I would want to be stuck in a lift with (steady there now) and once he gets the funds to route out and BNP and silly sods that have crept into UKIP they will be very credible.

Farage has all the cash he could want, he has his salary of 60k, plus claims 2 million a year in expenses.

Slight aside
The funiest question time I have everwatched watched was with Nick Griffin (I certainly don't agree with any of his politics) but he is a very clever man. He presented clear concise arguments and responses to the questions asked. The funny bit was the conservative Baroness Warsi spending most of her time attacking him personally (rather than his politics) and interupting and generally being rude. All whilst appearing to hold very little opinions of her own. Has she got the heave ho yet? Has anyone voted for her yet?

Sorry did you watch a different programme?
He squirmed under questioning about holocaust denial, trying to justify himself with a grin on his face.
He tried to argue that the Klu Klux Klan he supported was a non violent one.

 Jasper wrote:
I think the flash mob played right into Nigel's hands.

Farage tried engaging with one agitator in debate, and his words and attempt were recorded fairly by most newspapers. All he got in return were repeated chants of 'Nazi scum'. The press, even the Mirror, has been supportive of him.

 Jasper wrote:

Trapping him in a pub, crickey, the police were proably called by the landlord to stop him drinking the place dry.

Watch guys. If you want a cheap shot at Farage this is how its done.
Yes he did have a drinks problem, probalby still does.

 Jasper wrote:

When the three main parties in the UK's government keep breaking their promises and are still neck deep in sleeze and jobs for the boys and girls then people are going to look for a credible alternative.

It was hoped that the Conservatives would try and recover the UK from the damage done by New Labour, but are more interested in lining their own pockets. They want austerity, but are going the wrong way about it.
Farage is thus the last chance option for cleaning up parliament.

The thing I find terribly amusing is watching Mr Farage on things like question time when the main parties representatives come across as very shallow, and attack the person (Mr Farage) rather than his arguments.

 dæl wrote:

 Jasper wrote:
I think the flash mob played right into Nigel's hands.

Not at all, this is the first in what will be common occurrences of dissent against UKIPs hateful agenda. It shows the fact that there are more who don't agree with UKIP than do.

When the three main parties in the UK's government keep breaking their promises and are still neck deep in sleeze and jobs for the boys and girls then people are going to look for a credible alternative. The thing I find terribly amusing is watching Mr Farage on things like question time when the main parties representatives come across as very shallow, and attack the person (Mr Farage) rather than his arguments.

What arguments? That Mercedes will still sell their cars here if we leave Europe? Except that depends on whether we get a free trade agreement, and have to still abide by EU legislation. Or, as is more likely, we will have to pay import taxes on the car, raising it's price by a sizeable percentage. Food prices will go through the roof if EU subsidies go. Lots of businesses will leave the country.

Mr Farage is not really my cup of tea. But them I have absolutely nothing in common with the rest of the leaders, can not identify with my local MP - I know who he is but I disagree with him being let to keep a few thousand he overclaimed in rent as he hadn't claimed any food allowance during the expenses scandal (I have to buy my own food at work!) - and so I think actually, out of the lot of them he's probably the one I would want to be stuck in a lift with (steady there now) and once he gets the funds to route out and BNP and silly sods that have crept into UKIP they will be very credible.

Farage has all the cash he could want, he has his salary of 60k, plus claims 2 million a year in expenses.

Slight aside
The funiest question time I have everwatched watched was with Nick Griffin (I certainly don't agree with any of his politics) but he is a very clever man. He presented clear concise arguments and responses to the questions asked. The funny bit was the conservative Baroness Warsi spending most of her time attacking him personally (rather than his politics) and interupting and generally being rude. All whilst appearing to hold very little opinions of her own. Has she got the heave ho yet? Has anyone voted for her yet?

Sorry did you watch a different programme?
He squirmed under questioning about holocaust denial, trying to justify himself with a grin on his face.
He tried to argue that the Klu Klux Klan he supported was a non violent one.

@ Dael,
( I would try to do the multi-quote thinge but only hash it up, so taking them one at a time)

I don't see why the UKIP adgenda is hateful. It seams relatively balanced. It has big holes in the spending comittments but then we currently have a 100 billion hole in the coalition comitment and 120 in the possible labour proposal. Controlling the boarder is not particulalry hateful, its sensible. Mr Farage is more attuned with Europe than most MPs, both the workings of the union, its follies and through the family he married into. You have to remember they are a relatively new party, slightly to the right than the current vanilla ones. Regarding the share of the vote UKIP has: Nobody voted for a ConLib coalition but we have one, nobody voted for the possible LabLib coalition Mr Clegg was reportedly trying to engineer, more people abstained from voting than voted for any of the main parties. Nobody voted for the current EU regime, although we have been promised several referedums which never happen. Nobody voted for our comissioners. Nobody voted for Baroness Ashdon (spelling?) or the EU President Mr Von Rumpy.

The latest question time appearance Mr Farage used the Met polices statistics into recent perceived crimewave carried out by organised gangs from a specific eastern european country and put forward a reasoanble argument as to why this may be occuring. Rather than offering a counter argument, or even agreeing his reaoning had any sense behind it the labour lady (forget who she was) on the show basically shrugged off the statistics and attacked Mr Farage. The same Mr Farage that had been to the country in question and discussed their inclusion in the EU as part of their part of the development to raise the population of the country out of poverty; but in a way to make their poorest more likely to want to remain with their country - nope still not hateful.

The proposed spending of UKIP is approx. 120billion unpriced, coincidentally the red tape burden on our economy from the EU. It'll never work that way, but then they will never form a single party government.
(I told you I would mess up the quote thing, here's one from Dael: )

"Other than Europe his policies are even less thought out. Get rid of national insurance? So where are you finding the massive amount of revenue you lost, how else are you paying for doubling the prison population."

When I was working in prison the average prisoner cost 36K a year to house not including the capital investment programme underway at the time. That is silly figure. Get them doing real porridge and this figure will collapse, I don't care if swindles, muggers and burglers share four to a cell. Incidentally I love the old plenum tower prisons because the wings really smell aweful. WIth reference to trade I was under the impression we are a net importer from Europe, if they want to shaft their economies further then they can chose to go away from free trade.

No the point was My current MP accidentally overclaimed but was let off; and did not volunteer to repay the overclaim. I don't mind an accidental overclaim but it is a matter of principal that he should have paid it back. Incidentally the same MPs expenxes have risen at twice the rate of inflation since he was elected as an MP, which is a little out of touch with me. It was not a comment about Mr Farage, he stands up for UK interests at the european level and deserves his wage.

Finally with the Mr Griffin thing. Of course he was going to be squirming the whole audience was out to get him. What I took from it though is:
He is clever and knows how to play the media - very polite on these occasions.
Most of the people on this ocassion out to get him were not, and found it difficult to argue his views as they hold very weak central ground ones of their own.
Again I don't agree with his politics but it would be much better to have a thoughtful person argue him under the table than just attack the person and give ground to the views he expressed. Kill off the arguments and policies don't attack the person; unless you just want to make a headline.

@Orlanth
I agree with your final sentiment. Too many people just accept that a mainly PC liberal media spoon feed them I find the American media more balanced.

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Mr Hyena wrote:
Not enough really, since Westminster still has some say in Scottish affairs.

I look forward so seeing if the north of England votes with you to turn the county of Scotland back into a country after several hundred years of united rule.

I look forward even more, should the vote be for yes, to seeing the rest of the UK using its far superior position to get the best deal for the people of the UK.

It will be interesting how long the revoultion takes to overthrow independance once the north sea deposits run out and there is no money left. Or even more entertainingly if they are not ceeded to scotland.

May 9th poll

Independence 31
Remain in the union 59
Undecided 10

Among those certain to vote, 59% would vote 'No', up four points since February, while 31% would vote 'Yes', down three points. One in ten Scots are undecided, down a point.

Don't think it'll happen.

Euro collapse, when joining that was pretty key to Salmond's "policies" pretty much finished off any realistic chance of it happening anytime soon.



In Scottish Parliament voting intention, the SNP’s lead over Scottish Labour has narrowed to three points. Among those certain to vote, the SNP are on 39%, down four points since February, with Scottish Labour on 36%, up a point. The Scottish Conservatives saw the largest gain since February with an increase of three points to 16%, while the Scottish Liberal Democrats are on 8%, up a point.

Nicola Sturgeon has overtaken Alex Salmond as the most popular political leader in Scotland (49% of Scots are satisfied with her performance compared with 47% who are satisfied with Alex Salmond’s). The Deputy First Minister also has a net satisfaction rating (the proportion who are satisfied minus the proportion who are dissatisfied) of +14, although this is down three points since February. She is followed by Scottish Green Party leader Patrick Harvie, who has a net satisfaction rating of +11, and Scottish Labour Party leader Johann Lamont, who has a net satisfaction rating of +5. The long-term decline in the First Minister’s approval rating continues and is now +2, down five points since February, and down from a high of +35 in December 2011.


AS for the rascism, I'm sure farage isn't at all
he's always got on very well with our neighbours.

http://uk.politics.misc.narkive.com/0eAg9Y0D/ukrap-s-adulterous-farage-in-kinky-sex-with-slav

 Orlanth wrote:

Why prove my point. Crime linked to ethnicity is very real, sweeping it under the carpet is dangerous to society. Just two days ago there were articles about Asian paedophile gangs targeting girls. Its swept under the carpet because it involves Asians and this the accusations are possibly "racist". However its acceptable to talk of "instituational racism" because some white in authority in the police are allegedly racist.
So it is ok to endorse ascribing criminality to a race anyway, you apply it to alleged hate crime if the perpetrator is white. A lot of the PC nonsense lot do that. This is why thay/you howl "racism" at some but not others. The imbalance is plain to see.

So you are ok with legislation that only covers people of a certain race? That's really messed up.
What are you on about ascribing criminality to race for white people? A hate crime is a hate crime regardless who is involved, but we aren't talking about hate crimes, we are talking about treating one race differently before the law. That is racist.

Farage isn't a 'fascist' and its possible you actually don't know what fascism actually is. 'Fascist' is just a buzzword to you for anyone with right wing ideology with concerns over immigration. Fascism actually is something different.
Besides I am calling you out on your accusation of Farage being a 'Nazi', which is more specific and even worse.
Nazi is a term brought out to smear critics of multi-culturalism by left wing extremists, and is a common smear word amongst students like the scum who harassed Farage yesterday.

You could try actually reading my post, when did I say Farage was a Nazi, or a facist? I said he had ties to Nazis within the EU Parliament, something I have provided proof of.

Your hypocrisy is your bigotry of accusing Farage of being a bigot.
You don't base your opinions on Farage on logic, in fact you base only two points on Farage at all, the rest being about third parties Farage has no control over. One of those two being a third hand unrecorded quote that is not easily attributable to him and is frankly hearsay, the other being an exasperated outburst at a very dodgy, smug, unelected and unaccountable politician. The isn't enough to land a label of Fascist, let alone Nazi. Yet you make the label anyway...

my decision to dislike Farage is based on his scapegoating, casual racism, and ties with the extreme right. That's perfectly rational as reasoning to dislike and stand against a politician. He dislikes people because of what they are, I dislike him because of what he does. If you honestly can't see the difference then you have my pity. Also, stop thinking you know how I react to things, you don't know me. So stop making stuff up and then thinking you can call me a hypocrite because of how I acted in your fantasy.

... and not only do you advance the label unfairly at Farage you do so at his supporters. Calling them subhumans (bold text reference), which ironically is how Hitler preferred to see opponents. Also you openly endorse rent-a-mob array, a sign that not only do you disciminate horribly but are willing to endorse action based on your own bigotry. You proved that by posting the Radical Independence Campaign flyer as something positive.
Farage came to Edinburgh to meet the local people and he wasn't harrangued by local people but students and agitators from the extreme left. So this isn't a mass movement as you wish it portrayed, but a handful of sick fanatics who wish to silence a mainstream politician and isolate him from society, and that fact you want to see more of this type of action shows how low you can go.
For all your protestations of anti-fascism you are following the techniques and ideology of the Brown Shirts.

Yes racist skinhead scum are exactly that, scum. You think they chant a few slogans like the left do? Not at all, they are hooligans and thugs and have no place in politics.
You try and play this victim card of the left are silencing free speech, except they aren't, they are exercising their right to protest. How is anyone's free speech being compromised in any way? You obviously simply don't like it when people stand up for something you disagree with.

@ Dael,
There is plenty of legislation at the moment which specifies race which is silly unfair.

Positive descrimination springs to mind.
English Student being charge to study at Scottish universities.
The tax spend on the popultion being skewed towards scotland and wales; originally intended to bring the uk into a level playing field but now allowing free prescriptions and so on to be funded.

The only people he appear to dislike are the BNP, hence their exclusion from UKIP - this is probably illegal but go on UKIP. But ex BNP are free to joing other parties.

 Orlanth wrote:

Words in isolation are not. Which is why Diane Abbot is still an MP etc. Farage was insensed at an unelected and unaccountable President of Europe who by the way earns more in that position than Obama does.

Please, do stop this nonsense. The Europian President is not unelected. He is elected by the MEP's who are elected by us. It may not be a direct election, but then nither is the US election. The EU President gets aprox 300k euro, Obama USD 400k, approx 300euro. About the same, and Europ is about the same size as the US...

If your going to come up with arguments at least check the facts rather than spouting the same old lies.

 Orlanth wrote:

Why prove my point. Crime linked to ethnicity is very real, sweeping it under the carpet is dangerous to society. Just two days ago there were articles about Asian paedophile gangs targeting girls. Its swept under the carpet because it involves Asians and this the accusations are possibly "racist". However its acceptable to talk of "instituational racism" because some white in authority in the police are allegedly racist.
So it is ok to endorse ascribing criminality to a race anyway, you apply it to alleged hate crime if the perpetrator is white. A lot of the PC nonsense lot do that. This is why thay/you howl "racism" at some but not others. The imbalance is plain to see.

Again, what utter nonsense. I asume you are talking about operation Bullfinch? Please do show me how this is sweped under the carpet? I have seen reporting day after day. The crimes have nothing to do with there race.

Hate crimes have nothing to do with race. The only factor in labeling something a hate crime and investigating it as such is self identification of the victim. Nothing to do with race. The perpetrator being white has nothing at all to do with it being labled a hate crime.

Please show me a criminal link to ethnicity? There is non. There are higer rates of some crimes among some ethnic groups, but that has nothing to do with ethnicity and everthing to do wtih culture or social background. Take for example young black men. The high crime rates have nothing to do with being black and everything to do with social exclusion, low academic achevement and poverty. Labeling it as a race thing fails them, and all other poor, low achieving boys who end up in crime.

I'm sorry, but you are spouting racist nonsense. Your world view is clearly tainted by a feeling of persicution.

 Orlanth wrote:

Your hypocrisy is your bigotry of accusing Farage of being a bigot.
You don't base your opinions on Farage on logic, in fact you base only two points on Farage at all, the rest being about third parties Farage has no control over.

Farage IS a bigot. The third partys being his party members? People he DOSE have control over? That is the POINT in a party leader. Someone says something against the party line or puts the party in a bad light? You throw them out the party. Or people he has proven links to? He may have no control over what people say, but he dose have control over how he associates with.

 Orlanth wrote:

... and not only do you advance the label unfairly at Farage you do so at his supporters. Calling them subhumans (bold text reference), which ironically is how Hitler preferred to see opponents. Also you openly endorse rent-a-mob array, a sign that not only do you disciminate horribly but are willing to endorse action based on your own bigotry. You proved that by posting the Radical Independence Campaign flyer as something positive.
Farage came to Edinburgh to meet the local people and he wasn't harrangued by local people but students and agitators from the extreme left. So this isn't a mass movement as you wish it portrayed, but a handful of sick fanatics who wish to silence a mainstream politician and isolate him from society, and that fact you want to see more of this type of action shows how low you can go.
For all your protestations of anti-fascism you are following the techniques and ideology of the Brown Shirts.

So, you complain about people labaling Farage, but its ok for you to sling names about people who exercise there right to protest?

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

Words in isolation are not. Which is why Diane Abbot is still an MP etc. Farage was insensed at an unelected and unaccountable President of Europe who by the way earns more in that position than Obama does.

Please, do stop this nonsense. The Europian President is not unelected. He is elected by the MEP's who are elected by us. It may not be a direct election, but then nither is the US election. The EU President gets aprox 300k euro, Obama USD 400k, approx 300euro. About the same, and Europ is about the same size as the US...

If your going to come up with arguments at least check the facts rather than spouting the same old lies.

 Orlanth wrote:

Why prove my point. Crime linked to ethnicity is very real, sweeping it under the carpet is dangerous to society. Just two days ago there were articles about Asian paedophile gangs targeting girls. Its swept under the carpet because it involves Asians and this the accusations are possibly "racist". However its acceptable to talk of "instituational racism" because some white in authority in the police are allegedly racist.
So it is ok to endorse ascribing criminality to a race anyway, you apply it to alleged hate crime if the perpetrator is white. A lot of the PC nonsense lot do that. This is why thay/you howl "racism" at some but not others. The imbalance is plain to see.

Again, what utter nonsense. I asume you are talking about operation Bullfinch? Please do show me how this is sweped under the carpet? I have seen reporting day after day. The crimes have nothing to do with there race.

Hate crimes have nothing to do with race. The only factor in labeling something a hate crime and investigating it as such is self identification of the victim. Nothing to do with race. The perpetrator being white has nothing at all to do with it being labled a hate crime.

Please show me a criminal link to ethnicity? There is non. There are higer rates of some crimes among some ethnic groups, but that has nothing to do with ethnicity and everthing to do wtih culture or social background. Take for example young black men. The high crime rates have nothing to do with being black and everything to do with social exclusion, low academic achevement and poverty. Labeling it as a race thing fails them, and all other poor, low achieving boys who end up in crime.

I'm sorry, but you are spouting racist nonsense. Your world view is clearly tainted by a feeling of persicution.

 Orlanth wrote:

Your hypocrisy is your bigotry of accusing Farage of being a bigot.
You don't base your opinions on Farage on logic, in fact you base only two points on Farage at all, the rest being about third parties Farage has no control over.

Farage IS a bigot. The third partys being his party members? People he DOSE have control over? That is the POINT in a party leader. Someone says something against the party line or puts the party in a bad light? You throw them out the party. Or people he has proven links to? He may have no control over what people say, but he dose have control over how he associates with.

 Orlanth wrote:

... and not only do you advance the label unfairly at Farage you do so at his supporters. Calling them subhumans (bold text reference), which ironically is how Hitler preferred to see opponents. Also you openly endorse rent-a-mob array, a sign that not only do you disciminate horribly but are willing to endorse action based on your own bigotry. You proved that by posting the Radical Independence Campaign flyer as something positive.
Farage came to Edinburgh to meet the local people and he wasn't harrangued by local people but students and agitators from the extreme left. So this isn't a mass movement as you wish it portrayed, but a handful of sick fanatics who wish to silence a mainstream politician and isolate him from society, and that fact you want to see more of this type of action shows how low you can go.
For all your protestations of anti-fascism you are following the techniques and ideology of the Brown Shirts.

So, you complain about people labaling Farage, but its ok for you to sling names about people who exercise there right to protest?

Criminal link to ethnicity:
Reports into the majority of grooming gangs being non-white have been around for a while now. Recent large case in the news in the last few days. Getting away with it because the authorities and, useless, and too PC.
Metropolotan reports into the recent crimewave via gangs from a certain european country. This is not a social inclusion thing if they are travelling across here. Raise them out of poverty in their own country and blooming well make all of europe fair and prosperous.

Unfortunately it is sad but they (the reports) are out there.

The thing in Scotland is another case of attack the person because you are struggling to attack the policies.
It's like the Thatcher Out Out Out protesters outside Number 10 while she was slowly putting the lights back on in this country.

 Jasper wrote:
@ Dael,
There is plenty of legislation at the moment which specifies race which is silly unfair.

Positive descrimination springs to mind.
English Student being charge to study at Scottish universities.
The tax spend on the popultion being skewed towards scotland and wales; originally intended to bring the uk into a level playing field but now allowing free prescriptions and so on to be funded.

The only people he appear to dislike are the BNP, hence their exclusion from UKIP - this is probably illegal but go on UKIP. But ex BNP are free to joing other parties.

There is the Scottish university thing, but that is a nationality issue, not a race one. There is no such legislation as positive discrimination. The Equality Act makes it illegal to discriminate in any way.


In other news...

UKIP Joke Twitter Account 'Upik Tips' Has More Followers Than Its Official Channel
In a delicious twist of fate, the Ukip parody Twitter account '@UpikTips' has now got more followers than the UK Independence Party official account.

The account plays on the stereotype of a Ukip supporter and offers more than a nod to what Nigel Farage called the "handful" of embarrasing candidates which have blighted the party.

The account was originally called "Ukip tips" and had the biography "pretend you aren't a racist by wearing a suit."

However it changed its description after Twitter received a complaint that the account was 'misleading' people and was not making it clear enough it wasn't affiliated to UKIP.

The men who run the Twitter account told Huff Post UK: "If we've got one thing in common with UKIP, it's that we're both small-time jokeblowers. It's just that we've got more followers.

"We've had abuse from both sides of the argument, but that's the way we like it. People who don't get the joke are the joke. We wouldn't want it any other way."

http://huff.to/16CqKvz

 Jasper wrote:
@ Dael,
There is plenty of legislation at the moment which specifies race which is silly unfair.

Positive descrimination springs to mind.

There is no positive descrimination in the UK, with two exceptions.

1) The northen Irleand police have to employ approximatly equal numbers of Cathoilc and Protestant officers
2) The Sex Discrimination (Election Candidates) Act 2002, letting partys have all women short lists.

That is it. Any other descrimination is illigal. There are some reasons you can be excluded from the equalities act, but not positive descrimination.

 Jasper wrote:

English Student being charge to study at Scottish universities.
The tax spend on the popultion being skewed towards scotland and wales; originally intended to bring the uk into a level playing field but now allowing free prescriptions and so on to be funded.

That has nothing to do with racism or the EU. Noone here is talking about the Barnett formula. I think most of the UK agrees, including the govenment, that it needs looking at, but in light of the Sottish referendum its not the time to do it.

 Jasper wrote:

The only people he appear to dislike are the BNP, hence their exclusion from UKIP - this is probably illegal but go on UKIP. But ex BNP are free to joing other parties.

No, he wants to avoid being seen as having anything to do with the BNP. That is not the same as hating them. That shows that UKIP views match the BNP.

 Jasper wrote:

Criminal link to ethnicity:
Reports into the majority of grooming gangs being non-white have been around for a while now. Recent large case in the news in the last few days. Getting away with it because the authorities and, useless, and too PC.

Sorry but you are going to have to provide a source here. Claiming that the majority of paedophiles are non white while Operation Yewtree is going on simply can't be true.

 Jasper wrote:

Criminal link to ethnicity:
Reports into the majority of grooming gangs being non-white have been around for a while now. Recent large case in the news in the last few days. Getting away with it because the authorities and, useless, and too PC.

Show me those reports. I have never seen anthing about that. I have heard reports about there is an over reprisentation of pakistani men in child sex cases. This is not down to race, but the treatment of women in pakistani trible culture. It is not something inherant in there race.

There is also an over reprisentation of BBC staff. How about we put a boarder round White City too?

 Jasper wrote:

Metropolotan reports into the recent crimewave via gangs from a certain european country. This is not a social inclusion thing if they are travelling across here. Raise them out of poverty in their own country and blooming well make all of europe fair and prosperous.

Organised crime has come from eastern europe just as it did from Italy and russia in the past. Oh wow! devistating news! That is nothing to do with race and everthing to do with high levels of organised crime in ex eastern block countrys due to major upheaval and coruption in the post communist era. Nothing to do with race, no, or social inclusion. Everything to do with povety and coruption. Organised crime has nothing to do with the boarders of the UK. Organised crime will find a way to work in the UK unless we close the boarders.

@ Dael,
Historically Scottish People, Welsh People, even Cornish people are different races, they just have a similar skin tone and have been living together for hundreds of years.

Other example of racism in legislation/government
The Black police office assocition, Quango - although I presume you would argue that as it is only referring to a skin colour and not a specific race it is not racist.

The UK Equality Comission - Quango
Suppose to represent the ethnic make up of Britain but over staffed by certain ethnic minority staff.

Quotas for police and fire brigade staff spring to mind. Possibly a different subject as I want all coppas to be 6ft plus and built like they mean it. I'm tire of watching camera shows where the suspect wrestles through the arms of several whippy small officed and then jump over a suspiciously large fence at the bottom of the garden.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dæl wrote:

 Jasper wrote:

Criminal link to ethnicity:
Reports into the majority of grooming gangs being non-white have been around for a while now. Recent large case in the news in the last few days. Getting away with it because the authorities and, useless, and too PC.

Sorry but you are going to have to provide a source here. Claiming that the majority of paedophiles are non white while Operation Yewtree is going on simply can't be true.

Pull up Mr Farage's last appearance on question time, he refers to the report, the other panellist refer to the report.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Jasper wrote:
@ Dael,
There is plenty of legislation at the moment which specifies race which is silly unfair.

Positive descrimination springs to mind.

There is no positive descrimination in the UK, with two exceptions.

1) The northen Irleand police have to employ approximatly equal numbers of Cathoilc and Protestant officers
2) The Sex Discrimination (Election Candidates) Act 2002, letting partys have all women short lists.

That is it. Any other descrimination is illigal. There are some reasons you can be excluded from the equalities act, but not positive descrimination.

 Jasper wrote:

English Student being charge to study at Scottish universities.
The tax spend on the popultion being skewed towards scotland and wales; originally intended to bring the uk into a level playing field but now allowing free prescriptions and so on to be funded.

That has nothing to do with racism or the EU. Noone here is talking about the Barnett formula. I think most of the UK agrees, including the govenment, that it needs looking at, but in light of the Sottish referendum its not the time to do it.

 Jasper wrote:

The only people he appear to dislike are the BNP, hence their exclusion from UKIP - this is probably illegal but go on UKIP. But ex BNP are free to joing other parties.

No, he wants to avoid being seen as having anything to do with the BNP. That is not the same as hating them. That shows that UKIP views match the BNP.

Excluding people is positive discrimination.

EU students can study for free at scottish universities, students with an english address can not. Mr Farage was in Scotland for a Bi-election not a referendum.
You have to be blinkered to think he likes the BNP. Wanting the UK to be in a free trading area and controlling boarders is very different from the BNP adgenda.

 Jasper wrote:
@ Dael,
Historically Scottish People, Welsh People, even Cornish people are different races, they just have a similar skin tone and have been living together for hundreds of years.

No, they are not a different race. They are just not. SOME might like to claim they are, but they are not. The celts, as a race, ceased to exist a long time ago. On your basis we also have a split along the line of the danelaw.

 Jasper wrote:

Other example of racism in legislation/government
The Black police office assocition, Quango - although I presume you would argue that as it is only referring to a skin colour and not a specific race it is not racist.

The ABPO was a vital group in righting institutional racism in the police in the 70s and 80s. I admit it is loosing its use now, and should probably be questioned, but clearly people feel the need for it still.

 Jasper wrote:

The UK Equality Comission - Quango
Suppose to represent the ethnic make up of Britain but over staffed by certain ethnic minority staff.

Given that they only have about 150 staff I'm not sure how they can do this, or how you know this. Source please. I think this is made up.

 Jasper wrote:

Quotas for police and fire brigade staff spring to mind.

Quotas should not effect recrutment, but are about high level monitering of recrutment statistics. Infact Gloucestershire Police got in trouble for 'deselecting' potential because they were white. They broke the law. Anyway, they were droped in 2009 after only 10 years. Errors were made when trying to meet quotas, but that dose not meen they are racist.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jasper wrote:

EU students can study for free at scottish universities, students with an english address can not.

That is because of an oddity in EU and UK law. Students from EU countrys must be treated as being local to the university. Due to the strange makup of govenment in the UK we have this strange anomaly. Thats not racist, but an oddity of the UK system.

 Jasper wrote:
Mr Farage was in Scotland for a Bi-election not a referendum.

Not what I was saying...

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Jasper wrote:

The only people he appear to dislike are the BNP, hence their exclusion from UKIP - this is probably illegal but go on UKIP. But ex BNP are free to joing other parties.

No, he wants to avoid being seen as having anything to do with the BNP. That is not the same as hating them. That shows that UKIP views match the BNP.

I'll start by saying I not fussed either way about who is in charge of the country - the only constant in politics is that they all seem to put petrol tax up. I'm not getting into the argument, I'd just like some clarification on a point.

How is not wanting to be seen to be affiliated with the BNP showing that UKIPs views match the bnp?

I'm a bit confused...

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Jasper wrote:

Criminal link to ethnicity:
Reports into the majority of grooming gangs being non-white have been around for a while now. Recent large case in the news in the last few days. Getting away with it because the authorities and, useless, and too PC.

Show me those reports. I have never seen anthing about that. I have heard reports about there is an over reprisentation of pakistani men in child sex cases. This is not down to race, but the treatment of women in pakistani trible culture. It is not something inherant in there race.

There is also an over reprisentation of BBC staff. How about we put a boarder round White City too?

 Jasper wrote:

Metropolotan reports into the recent crimewave via gangs from a certain european country. This is not a social inclusion thing if they are travelling across here. Raise them out of poverty in their own country and blooming well make all of europe fair and prosperous.

Organised crime has come from eastern europe just as it did from Italy and russia in the past. Oh wow! devistating news! That is nothing to do with race and everthing to do with high levels of organised crime in ex eastern block countrys due to major upheaval and coruption in the post communist era. Nothing to do with race, no, or social inclusion. Everything to do with povety and coruption. Organised crime has nothing to do with the boarders of the UK. Organised crime will find a way to work in the UK unless we close the boarders.

Surely the fact that a large proporation the grooming gangs are decendant from a particular country is a criminal link to ethnicity ie their race.
I don't understand the White City comment its a bit odd

So what you are saying about the border is that if we controlled it very well owe could reduce organised crime in the UK. Sounds like a good idea to me.

PredaKhaine wrote:

I'll start by saying I not fussed either way about who is in charge of the country - the only constant in politics is that they all seem to put petrol tax up. I'm not getting into the argument, I'd just like some clarification on a point.

How is not wanting to be seen to be affiliated with the BNP showing that UKIPs views match the bnp?

I'm a bit confused...

A load of people left the BNP and wanted to join UKIP seeing them as a less extreme party, but with the same aim. UKIP wants to avoid these people being in the party because they give the party a bad image, as racist. This may be because they don't want those views, but I think it is more likely that they know they have the votes but don't want the image.

 Jasper wrote:
@ Dael,
Historically Scottish People, Welsh People, even Cornish people are different races, they just have a similar skin tone and have been living together for hundreds of years.

Firstly it's thousands of years, and no, we are not different races, never were.

Other example of racism in legislation/government
The Black police office assocition, Quango - although I presume you would argue that as it is only referring to a skin colour and not a specific race it is not racist.

The UK Equality Comission - Quango
Suppose to represent the ethnic make up of Britain but over staffed by certain ethnic minority staff.

What's that? A quango representing a specific group. It's almost as if that was the purpose of a quango.

 Jasper wrote:

Pull up Mr Farage's last appearance on question time, he refers to the report, the other panellist refer to the report.

No, that is not a source, I cannot see the report, who commissioned it, what they were looking for, where they looked and what they found.

 Jasper wrote:

You have to be blinkered to think he likes the BNP. Wanting the UK to be in a free trading area and controlling boarders is very different from the BNP adgenda.

How is UKIP's blaming immigrants for everything any different from BNP's blaming immigrants for everything? They seem pretty similar.

Also, you just have to do some quick research to find a number of links between the two parties.

UKIP claim that former membership of other far right groups such as the BNP or NF mean people are not allowed to become members, but there have been some high profile exceptions.

John Brayshaw was exposed as being Chairman of UKIP's Vale of York branch and the BNP's National Treasurer at the same time.
Trevor Agnew was a UKIP parliamentary candidate and a well known BNP activist, he was expelled from UKIP in '99 and then allowed to rejoin, after which he pledged his support to the BNP in the '03 elections.
Andrew Moffat was a UKIP parliamentary candidate, and was a member of the National Front.
Martyn Heale is Chairman of UKIP's Thanet South branch, and was also a member of the National Front and stood as an NF candidate in Hammersmith in the late 70s.
Plus this week, Alan Ryall was disowned by the party for previous membership of the BNP, but remained on ballot papers as it was too late to remove him.

PredaKhaine wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Jasper wrote:

The only people he appear to dislike are the BNP, hence their exclusion from UKIP - this is probably illegal but go on UKIP. But ex BNP are free to joing other parties.

No, he wants to avoid being seen as having anything to do with the BNP. That is not the same as hating them. That shows that UKIP views match the BNP.

I'll start by saying I not fussed either way about who is in charge of the country - the only constant in politics is that they all seem to put petrol tax up. I'm not getting into the argument, I'd just like some clarification on a point.

How is not wanting to be seen to be affiliated with the BNP showing that UKIPs views match the bnp?

I'm a bit confused...

Yep, even with the price rigging re-bate we are due for the price is still going to go up some how.

Surely the fact that a large proporation the grooming gangs are decendant from a particular country is a criminal link to ethnicity ie their race.

You'll note that the vast majority of the bankers who have caused some issues of late and indeed the vast majority of "white collar" crime is carried out by white people.

Most of the corrupt MPs were white too.

Presumably then white people are inclined towards financial mismanagement and corruption then ?

@ Dael,

I give you a way to find the report and you say it's not the same as giving you a direct link. A few sentences later you ask me to do a little digging to look for spurios links. Hmmm Pot - Kettle (I'm I walking back into the racism debate!)

I was under the impression UKIP was blaming uncontrolled immigration. Which is blaming the system and very different from blaming immigrants.

Well Ron Northcott didn't help Farage's case yesterday

 reds8n wrote:

Surely the fact that a large proporation the grooming gangs are decendant from a particular country is a criminal link to ethnicity ie their race.

You'll note that the vast majority of the bankers who have caused some issues of late and indeed the vast majority of "white collar" crime is carried out by white people.

Most of the corrupt MPs were white too.

Presumably then white people are inclined towards financial mismanagement and corruption then ?

I think what that means if you line up all the bankers and politicians in a row. Preferably on the edge of a swiming pool, tell them you are taking a photo and to take one step back most of them will.

Try again:

What it means is that if you take all the bankers and politicians and line them up, if you want to look for financial miss management you would focus your efforts on the white looking chaps from the UK.

SImilarly the grooming thing. A large proportion of the convictions are from a small proportion of the UKs popoluation. So if you stand the population in line and want to find the grooming rings (in the adscence of evidence) unfortunatley you best use of resources to find the most is to look at that small proportion of the population. Sad but true ( for the grooming case they should flood everywhere to stamp it out completely - who cares if a few banksters get away with their loot)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:
Well Ron Northcott didn't help Farage's case yesterday

Spoiler:

Poor Old Nigel, even his friends are out to torpedo him!

 Jasper wrote:
@ Dael,

I give you a way to find the report and you say it's not the same as giving you a direct link. A few sentences later you ask me to do a little digging to look for spurios links. Hmmm Pot - Kettle (I'm I walking back into the racism debate!)

I was under the impression UKIP was blaming uncontrolled immigration. Which is blaming the system and very different from blaming immigrants.

You haven't given me a way to find the report, you have said to try and find an hour long QT from about a month ago, and have it referred to in that. How does that give me a way to find the report?

You can choose to look up those names, I assure you they are all correct.

UKIP are blaming Europe and foreigners for our troubles, and make out that leaving the EU will be some kind of panacea, rather than the uncertain, difficult process it would actually be.

I think most of those quotes are quite funny to be fair. It's just all hot air.

I mean it does give fuel to the "English hate us" crowd, but it's not really a fair picture. I think the Independence polls will speak for themselves, the fact that Salmond and his nippy faced comrade Sturgeon have secured 16 year olds the right to vote on it is absolutely ridiculous and shows that their clutching at straws.

I will be extremely unhappy if we get Independence and I'm not alone in that.

SImilarly the grooming thing. A large proportion of the convictions are from a small proportion of the UKs popoluation. So if you stand the population in line and want to find the grooming rings (in the adscence of evidence) unfortunatley you best use of resources to find the most is to look at that small proportion of the population. Sad but true ( for the grooming case they should flood everywhere to stamp it out completely -

The Ceop study looked at the 2,379 potential offenders, reported to Ceop for grooming since 2008. The vast majority were men and most were aged 18 to 24.

Of the 940 suspects who were fully identified, 26 per cent were Asian, 38 per cent were white and 32 per cent were recorded as unknown. Some 3 per cent were black and less than 1 per cent were Chinese.

Ceop also identified 230 cases where suspects were working together in groups ranging from two to more than eight people. Of those gangs, 41 were Asian, 36 were white and 137 were of unknown ethnic origin.

As for those being targeted by these gangs, some 61 per cent of the 2,083 victims were white, while 2.6 per cent were Asian, 1.3 per cent were black and 33 per cent were of unknown ethnic origin.

http://www.channel4.com/news/ceop-warns-against-focus-on-race-after-major-grooming-study

figures appear to indicate that there's not really all that much difference when it comes to the numbers.

who cares if a few banksters get away with their loot)

err.. okay.