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Made in us
Troubled By Non-Compliant Worlds






in ur cumputer stealing ur internetz

here are some sample rules for this chapter, (the chapters theme is basically phalanx type warfare and emphasis placed on shields and close combat weapons)

Ranks of Iron: Models in a unit with the Ranks of Iron special rule gain +1 Toughness for each model with this special rule that is in base contact with them and are Fearless, but models with this special rule are considered very bulky for the purpose of finding transport capaciy.

Lord of Iron- can be given to any Sergeant or for 90 points. As long as at least one model in the unit has the Lord of Iron special rule, all models in base contact with that model have a 6 + invulnerable save and have Relentless, Furious Charge, Counter-Attack, but also have slow and purposful and must make a morale check or fall back if they are not in base contact with at least one other model in thier unit

Arsenal of Iron- allows your tactical marines to replace their bolters with combat shields and chainswords for 20 points, replace their bolters with combat shields and power lances for 20 points, replace their bolters with combat shields and power mauls for 20 points, or with combat shields and power swords for 20 points. in addition, terminator squads come with thunder hammers and storm shields by default.

Doctrine of Steel - troops and elite unites in your arm may purchase the the Ranks of Iron special rule for 50 points, but you are limited to only one terminator assault squad, assault squad, scout squad, bike squad and terminator squad and may not give your HQs terminator armor bikes or jump packs.

what do you think? i have more special rules and units on the way as well!

Here i Edited It to make it More Balanced

Iron Guards- Replaces Honor Guards- cost 400 pts. have Ranks of Iron,

WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 LD9 Save 3+/3+

Wargear, Power Armour, Power Lances With built in Stormbolters, Storm Shields




This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/05/29 04:00:23



 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




WA, USA

Um...wow.

So... for no points at all, all of my Marine squads are pretty much T7 to T10 and fearless?

And for 45 points more they all have all of those rules?

Seriously?

SERIOUSLY?

 Ouze wrote:

Afterward, Curran killed a guy in the parking lot with a trident.
 
   
Made in nz
Disguised Speculo





I think that there should be a minimum age and a minimum grammar requirement for anyone attempting to add things to this game.
   
Made in us
Ragin' Ork Dreadnought




So... Your first two things are ridiculously and incredibly Over Powered... Then your third upgrade is surprisingly awful. Did you mean Storm Shields? Because Combat Shields are a 6+ invuln. Also, what's the point of the Chainsword if you don't have a pistol as well?
Also, the power weapons were all meant to be equally useful and have equal points cost.
   
Made in us
Major




Fortress of Solitude

This is horrendous. That is all.

Celesticon 2013 Warhammer 40k Tournament- Best General
Sydney August 2014 Warhammer 40k Tournament-Best General 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





These are so unreasonable no constructive criticism can help.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in au
Blood Angel Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries



Australia

i concur with everything written above
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick




Places

Hey guys did you know that Lasguns are now S10 AP 1 Assualt 9000 to the 40th power ? *SARCASM*

Motto of the Imperial Guard " If its worth bringing one its worth bringing three"
y

 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






welcome to another reason why we don't get to write the rules...
   
Made in us
Troubled By Non-Compliant Worlds






in ur cumputer stealing ur internetz

IMHO, the drawback of having no ranged weapons on your tactical squad offsets the advantages of having such good protection.


 
   
Made in nz
Camouflaged Zero





Auckland, New Zealand

Yeah those are a bit over the top, but I don't exactly wanna be a tfg about it like some others. I think I see where you're coming from, I'd make them like plague marines. Any guy can purchase Ranks of iron for 3pts and it gives +1T, but a whole unit has to take it if one does (to keep it simple). Then for lord of iron, make it like a chapter tactics thing. If your HQ is a chapter master or captain you loose combat tactics and instead get Lord of Iron which gives counter attack. Then if you wanted combat tactics and not lord of iron just take a librarian, chaplain or MOTF as a HQ. Then for arsenal of iron, rather than taking one special weapon and one heavy, TAC squads can take 2 specials or 2 heavies or one of each. Don't change the base stat line, it'll be silly if you do.
btw by base stat line I mean the original one from the codex

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/22 08:28:36


If your attack is going too well, you have walked into an ambush

The easy way is always mined

 
   
Made in nz
Disguised Speculo





Here i Edited It to make it More Balanced

Iron Guards

WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 LD9 Save+3

amm currently working on the wargear


What are these exactly? Price? Slot? Is that a 3+ save or something else? Do they really need 2 attacks and WS 5 ~ remember, WS 5 is heroes and super badass gladiator type units like Wyches
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





 OnlyWar wrote:
IMHO, the drawback of having no ranged weapons on your tactical squad offsets the advantages of having such good protection.


It really doesn't because they're not tactical marines anymore and you're not using them as tactical marines. Instead you've created an army of super close combat units. It's simply ludicrously unbalanced. For 35 points your tactical squad can be fearless and each member can be toughness 8. It's incredibly overpowered to have a 10 man unit of toughness 8 guys with 3+ armour saves. Imagine them sitting in cover on an objective, you'd never get them off it. For an additional 50 points they can then have all those special rules. Each marine would have to cost 50 points at least.

Toughness 7 terminators is also insane. They should be 80 points at least.

Aside from being horrifically overpowered you're rules aren't very clear. What are Squad Leaders? There's no model called a squad leader in the space marine codex. For arsenal of iron they current way you have it written is that for 15 points everyone in the squad can take combat shields and chainswords. Or for 20 the power lances etc. I assume you meant for 15/20 points each?

Take a look at Forgeworld's Siege Mantlet rules for inspiration. They're large shields that let you reroll failed armour saves from shooting. They're 50 points a squad. So for an ability far worse than your ranks of iron is significantly more expansive.

As it is no one will play you if you use those rules or if they do, they'll only do it once.



   
Made in au
[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion






Brisbane

And remember, multiple armies basic weapons won't even be able to affect you at T7. And if all of your marines are T7...you are immune to all but the heaviest weapons in the enemy army. It's an awful idea if the idea invalidates several armies basic weapons.

I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

Scrap these ideas, delete any record of them from the internet. There is nothing remotely playable that can be salvaged from it.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Dakkamite wrote:

What are these exactly? Price? Slot? Is that a 3+ save or something else? Do they really need 2 attacks and WS 5 ~ remember, WS 5 is heroes and super badass gladiator type units like Wyches

Wyches are WS 4.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in us
Troubled By Non-Compliant Worlds






in ur cumputer stealing ur internetz

If you re read the rules i posted, you will notice that i edited them to be (IMO) much more balanced.


 
   
Made in za
Fixture of Dakka




Temple Prime

 OnlyWar wrote:
here are some sample rules for this chapter, (the chapters theme is basically phalanx type warfare and emphasis placed on shields and close combat weapons)

Ranks of Iron: Models in a unit with the Ranks of Iron special rule gain +1 Toughness for each model with this special rule that is in base contact with them and are Fearless, but models with this special rule are considered very bulky for the purpose of finding transport capaciy.

Lord of Iron- can be given to any Sergeant or for 90 points. As long as at least one model in the unit has the Lord of Iron special rule, all models in base contact with that model have a 6 + invulnerable save and have Relentless, Furious Charge, Counter-Attack, but also have slow and purposful and must make a morale check or fall back if they are not in base contact with at least one other model in thier unit

Arsenal of Iron- allows your tactical marines to replace their bolters with combat shields and chainswords for 20 points, replace their bolters with combat shields and power lances for 20 points, replace their bolters with combat shields and power mauls for 20 points, or with combat shields and power swords for 20 points. in addition, terminator squads come with thunder hammers and storm shields by default.

Doctrine of Steel - troops and elite unites in your arm may purchase the the Ranks of Iron special rule for 50 points, but you are limited to only one terminator assault squad, assault squad, scout squad, bike squad and terminator squad and may not give your HQs terminator armor bikes or jump packs.

what do you think? i have more special rules and units on the way as well!

Here i Edited It to make it More Balanced

Iron Guards- Replaces Honor Guards- cost 400 pts. have Ranks of Iron,

WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 LD9 Save 3+/3+

Wargear, Power Armour, Power Lances With built in Stormbolters, Storm Shields






You know what this reminds me of?


Yep.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.



 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion






Brisbane

 OnlyWar wrote:
If you re read the rules i posted, you will notice that i edited them to be (IMO) much more balanced.


Making all of your troops immune to the main weapons of a few armies is just broken. Maybe for 100 pts per squad it would be ok, but short of an even bigger markup its still broken, and even then its a bad idea.

I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el






I get the idea of wanting a tougher unit that's bunched up, but without a limit on toughness it gets kind of silly. If the rule only allowed +1 T, with an upgrade to the sarge to give the unit a 4/5++ for all models being in base to base then I can somewhat see it. Or even base to base with 2 other models in the unit to try and make a smaller foot print. It offers a benefit, but not game breaking of a benefit. It also has some downsides, Template weapons hit more models per direct hit for example.

But as stated before, I really think you should scrub the drawing board clean and start from the beginning.

I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."

"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby 
   
Made in nz
Disguised Speculo





Does the storm shield in your unit's wargear give it a 4++ on top of the 3+/3+ it gets?

If so, I wouldn't play against it. I can dig a small elite unit thats virtually immune to small arms but I'll be damned if I'm ok with that thing being resistant to heavy weapons as well.
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero





Bearing Words in Rugby

This is.. My... Wow.... This is worse than the Tau Water Caste with the S6 AP2 Lightning Claws with I7 and WS5 I saw the other day.. And that's saying something!

Muh Black Templars
Blacksails wrote:Maybe you should read your own posts before calling someone else's juvenile.
 
   
Made in us
Troubled By Non-Compliant Worlds






in ur cumputer stealing ur internetz

i am taking your guys advice and starting from scratch , this is what i have come up with so far. (also, i am working on adding a bit of backstory regarding the origin of the chapter.)

Ranks of Iron: Models in a unit with the Ranks of Iron special rule gain +1 Toughness for each model with this special rule that is in base contact with them (to a maximum of 7 toughness and are Fearless, but models with this special rule are may not embark on a transport of any kind and may not enter from reserves until at least Turn 3

Lord of Iron- can be given to any Sergeant for 50 points. As long as at least one model in the unit has the Lord of Iron special rule, all models in base contact with that model have a 6+ invulnerable save and have Relentless, Hammer of Wrath, and, crusader, but also have slow and purposful and must make a morale check or fall back if they are not in base contact with at least three other models in their unit.

Arsenal of Iron- allows your tactical marines to replace their bolters with combat shields and chainswords for 40 points, replace their bolters with combat shields and power lances for 50 points, replace their bolters with combat shields and power mauls for 50 points, or with combat shields and power swords for 50 points. in addition, terminator squads come with thunder hammers and storm shields by default and cannot take any heavy weapons other than CML and TH/SS, .

Doctrine of Steel, Replaces Chapter Tactics - troops and elite unites in your arm may purchase the the Ranks of Iron special rule for 100 points, but the following units are no longer available: scouts, assault marines, vanguard vets., bike squads, land speeders, and Sternguard vets. (sternguard vets. are replaced by Iron Guard Veterans (see below)

Iron Guard Veterans- cost 400 pts.

Special Rules: Crusader, Hammer of Wrath, Ranks of Iron, Relentless, Slow and Purposeful, Fearless, Lord of Iron

WS5 BS2 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 LD8 Save 3+/3+

Wargear, Power Armour, Power Weapons, Wrist-Mounted Stormbolters, Storm Shields,



 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




WA, USA

You're starting from scratch and getting the same results, let's go through this one thing at a time.

 OnlyWar wrote:

Ranks of Iron: Models in a unit with the Ranks of Iron special rule gain +1 Toughness for each model with this special rule that is in base contact with them (to a maximum of 7 toughness and are Fearless, but models with this special rule are may not embark on a transport of any kind and may not enter from reserves until at least Turn 3


Stupidly overpowered still. Insanely overpowered. And what you did to change it is not weaken it at all and give it false drawbacks. Who cares if they can't use a transport, or not arrive fast from reserves? These are false weaknesses that do nothing, NOTHING to counteract the overwhelming advantage that this rule gives. Are you serious in not seeing any problem with squads of T7 Marines running around? This needs to just plain go.


Lord of Iron- can be given to any Sergeant for 50 points. As long as at least one model in the unit has the Lord of Iron special rule, all models in base contact with that model have a 6+ invulnerable save and have Relentless, Hammer of Wrath, and, crusader, but also have slow and purposful and must make a morale check or fall back if they are not in base contact with at least three other models in their unit.


Again, really powerful rules with fake drawbacks, especially given your other rules. Why would anyone leave the character hanging out alone, and even then passing an Ld test on Space Marine leadership is pretty safe. So for 50 points you get amazing rules that pass on to the squad.


Arsenal of Iron- allows your tactical marines to replace their bolters with combat shields and chainswords for 40 points, replace their bolters with combat shields and power lances for 50 points, replace their bolters with combat shields and power mauls for 50 points, or with combat shields and power swords for 50 points. in addition, terminator squads come with thunder hammers and storm shields by default and cannot take any heavy weapons other than CML and TH/SS.


This one is possibly okay. I don't know Marine point costs for items well enough to say for sure, letting someone else handle this one.


Doctrine of Steel, Replaces Chapter Tactics - troops and elite unites in your arm may purchase the the Ranks of Iron special rule for 100 points, but the following units are no longer available: scouts, assault marines, vanguard vets., bike squads, land speeders, and Sternguard vets. (sternguard vets. are replaced by Iron Guard Veterans (see below)


Another false weakness. Who cares if you can't take any of those squads when you can use nearly invincible marine squads instead?


Iron Guard Veterans- cost 400 pts.

Special Rules: Crusader, Hammer of Wrath, Ranks of Iron, Relentless, Slow and Purposeful, Fearless, Lord of Iron

WS5 BS2 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 LD8 Save 3+/3+

Wargear, Power Armour, Power Weapons, Wrist-Mounted Stormbolters, Storm Shields,


How many in this squad?
Why are they BS2? This is another false way of making them seem balanced.

 Ouze wrote:

Afterward, Curran killed a guy in the parking lot with a trident.
 
   
Made in us
Troubled By Non-Compliant Worlds






in ur cumputer stealing ur internetz

How in terra's name is doctrine of iron not balanced! i might also ad that the person i usually play against uses a costom HQ that makes chaos havocs troops and Oblits elite as well as heavy support!


 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




WA, USA

 OnlyWar wrote:
How in terra's name is doctrine of iron not balanced! i might also ad that the person i usually play against uses a costom HQ that makes chaos havocs troops and Oblits elite as well as heavy support!


Because it grants near invincibility to your units?

And because your opponent uses a horrible, cheating and overpowered custom rule doesn't make you immune to me pointing it out. Frankly, both of you should play by the rules and not get into a "WELL I SHOT YOU INFINITY TIMES BETTER" kinds of schoolyard one-upsmanship.

 Ouze wrote:

Afterward, Curran killed a guy in the parking lot with a trident.
 
   
Made in gb
Boosting Space Marine Biker




England, West sussex.

"Here i Edited It to make it More Balanced"

Those words are the most terrifying part, how exactly was this worse in terms of balance than it is now?

Fritz40k forum: 40k only warhammer forum.

http://www.thewarmaster.com

Warmachine Menoth 60 points

SalamanderMarine

High Elves 2000 points

200 points
1000 points
1250 points
1500 points
300 points (in progress)
Tomb kings: 1000
High elves 2000 points


6th ed slate

2/0/3

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat440134a&categoryId=1000018%C2%A7ion=&pIndex=1&aId=3400019&start=2&multiPageMode=true

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/News/Downloads.html 
   
Made in za
Fixture of Dakka




Temple Prime

Ranks of Iron: because feth you guardsmen.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.



 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion






Brisbane

 Kain wrote:
Ranks of Iron: because feth you guardsmen.


Don't discriminate. The hate is equal for the other factions which uses S3 weapons (that aren't poisoned)

I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in za
Fixture of Dakka




Temple Prime

 motyak wrote:
 Kain wrote:
Ranks of Iron: because feth you guardsmen.


Don't discriminate. The hate is equal for the other factions which uses S3 weapons (that aren't poisoned)
You're right, feth Daemonettes, Boyz not on a charge, cultists, Grots, Guardians, Wyches, Gaunts without adrenal glands and not assaulting, gaunts with spinefists and spike rifles (if anyone used them), Rippers, Scarabs, Nurglings, Furies, and heck, even the Tau or furious charging Bezerkers with their S5 are only wounding on sixes and still have an armor save to get through. That means one out of eighteen hits from these will drop a marine. So seventy two fire warriors firing a hundred forty four shots getting seventy two hits kill a grand total of...four fething marines. Two or three if an apothecary is around.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.



 
   
 
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