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I just dont see the effectiveness of a Guard power blob. Yes it can hold an objective but its got only a 24in range with the lasguns so unless you move out its going to be difficult to get all the lasguns in range at one time. Also if you get into assault or manage to get a good round of shooting in where all the lasguns are still alive then your opponent did something wrong and your playing against an unskilled player lol.

 Super Ready wrote:

 JGrand wrote:
I completely disagree. Dark Eldar/Eldar have a number of deathstar units.

Not to single this one particular comment out, it was suggested a few times - but I don't class the Harliestar as a deathstar. It's too easy to take out with template weapons which ignore the all important cover saves. When 6th first hit this was devastating as template weapons weren't all that popular, but now that we have Heldrakes, people who rushed in and bought tons of Daemon Flamers, Tau suits that can take 3 templates each... you get the idea.

Are there any other DE deathstars I'm missing?

Well Harlistar funcitons off people allowing fortuned Archons with 2++ re-rollable, so if he stands at the front...template really does nothing.

Beyond that the best DE deathstar is the Beast Pack with character support. Fast, lots of wounds, tons of attacks.

As for the Power Blob, plenty of top tournament players would beg to differ on it being ineffective. Not sure it is really that killy it is more about board control than straight killing power.

 Super Ready wrote:
Part of the problem is that the deathstar needs to be not only powerful, but resilient too. So no, DE (outside of Harlequins) and IG don't really have anything that can cover both.

Beast packs are definitely resilient and the damage output is insane.

Just because you can throw a lot of points into something, it doesn't make that something a DeathStar.

 Jidmah wrote:
After all, the real death star had a fatal weakness, too.

I don't think it means, what you think it means.

I had a good chuckle at this. The real, fake deathstar.

IMO a deathstar has to have the power to point at something and click delete. Otherwise, it's just a tarpit and/or waste of points.

One Blood Angels player in my area runs Corbulo, two Terminator Librarians, and five assault terminators put in a Land Raider Crusader. Even if the Crusader is wrecked, the squad that gets out is still a giant pain because he puts Corbulo in the front and soaks up all the small wounds with his armor then 2+FNP. Anything he can't take like Lascannons he just look out sirs onto a storm shield.

Not to single this one particular comment out, it was suggested a few times - but I don't class the Harliestar as a deathstar. It's too easy to take out with template weapons which ignore the all important cover saves. When 6th first hit this was devastating as template weapons weren't all that popular, but now that we have Heldrakes, people who rushed in and bought tons of Daemon Flamers, Tau suits that can take 3 templates each... you get the idea.

Are there any other DE deathstars I'm missing?

I'm not saying that the Harliestar is unstoppable, but it is unquestionably a deathstar. 9 Harlies with kisses, 1 Shadowseer, Vect, Eldrad, and a Phoenix Lord comes in at around 900 points. While that isn't the only way to run the unit, that is the "all-in" version. With a character at each corner, they can survive quite a bit--including templates.

I just dont see the effectiveness of a Guard power blob. Yes it can hold an objective but its got only a 24in range with the lasguns so unless you move out its going to be difficult to get all the lasguns in range at one time. Also if you get into assault or manage to get a good round of shooting in where all the lasguns are still alive then your opponent did something wrong and your playing against an unskilled player lol.

Spending several hundred points for a few power axes and a couple of meltaguns hardly "kills plenty". Plus, I'd question how "competitive" of an environment they're really being played in if their opponents can't figure out how to kill a few dozen guardsmen. The opponents at my local store could run through over a hundred guardsmen in a single game without much extra effort, much less a few dozen thrown into one of the game's biggest points sinks.

These comments let me know that you aren't playing in events. The guard blob is a staple of some of the most competitive lists in the current 40k scene. 24" is a very solid range once said unit hits midfield. There are many ways to make a blob durable--Aegis, Divination powers, and Azreal to name a few. It is also likely that they will take an attached Primaris Psyker, which allows the possibility for Endurance.

If you think that they aren't killy, I also know that you have not played against them. Orders plus Prescience is absolutely devastating. I know Ailaros in particular likes to play the contrarian, but come on. All you have to do is look to the top tables to see why that the guard blob is extremely effective and competitive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Keep in mind, I am not advocating spending 1000 points on a blob. 30-50 Guardsmen with Power Axe armed sergeants works just fine with an attached Primaris Psyker and Space Marine character. Anything else (meltas, flamers, autocannons, krak grenades) are very optional.

That comes out to between 350 and 500ish points. Not exactly "selling out" to fit one in.

better question: does every army *have* to have a "deathstar"?

 tankboy145 wrote:
I just dont see the effectiveness of a Guard power blob. Yes it can hold an objective but its got only a 24in range with the lasguns so unless you move out its going to be difficult to get all the lasguns in range at one time. Also if you get into assault or manage to get a good round of shooting in where all the lasguns are still alive then your opponent did something wrong and your playing against an unskilled player lol.

4++ invul save with fearlessness. That blob isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

 skoffs wrote:
Came to this thread hoping to see the Royal Court Disco Inferno.
...
Am sorely disappointed.

The what? Please explain because I looked in a Courtstar with Zandrekh and Obyron once


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
better question: does every army *have* to have a "deathstar"?

Yeah that is a better wording, imo some don't they can hack it on their own (nids and GK possibly, or any army played well imho). But it's interesting to see what stars people have encountered/created

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Came to this thread hoping to see the Royal Court Disco Inferno.
...
Am sorely disappointed.

The what? Please explain because I looked in a Courtstar with Zandrekh and Obyron once

Royal Court Disco inferno means putting in all the points you can into a royal court, leading to a hilarious train engine of destruction that can outfight literally any other possible formation of units in the game. Including god damned titans.

I was going to chime in with two of the popular Daemons death stars.
The first is 4 Khorn Heralds with greater etherblades in a unit of bloodcrushers. Give one herald the rage upgrade and give the bloodcrusher character an etherblade and you have more Ap2 attacks than you can shake a stick at.

Slaanesh can do the same with fiends. It becomes higher initiative, faster, but weaker, and gains outflank.

If only a nurgle herald could ride a plaguedrone...

 Kain wrote:

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Came to this thread hoping to see the Royal Court Disco Inferno.
...
Am sorely disappointed.

The what? Please explain because I looked in a Courtstar with Zandrekh and Obyron once

Royal Court Disco inferno means putting in all the points you can into a royal court, leading to a hilarious train engine of destruction that can outfight literally any other possible formation of units in the game. Including god damned titans.

Something like this?
Zandrekh and Obyron
Lord with warscythe and TL
Lord with H'phase Sword
Lord with Res Orb
Lord with MSS
Despairtek with Shroud (Obyron has a veil of sorts so I didnt include one)
Destructek
Stormtek with Lightning field
Tremortek with Harp of Dissonance

I know its not the nastiest but I was on a budget for points

No, spend moar. Like armor, that funky 3++ save granting thing, and warscythes all around and the priciest crypteks you can get.

In really high points double FOC games, use four and troll everyone.

 Kain wrote:
No, spend moar. Like armor, that funky 3++ save granting thing, and warscythes all around and the priciest crypteks you can get.

In really high points double FOC games, use four and troll everyone.

That "funky 3++ save thing" is the phase shifter for lords (45 pts each) and the timesplinter cloak for 1 cryptek with otherwise suckish wargear (30pts). As I said, I was on a budget (1500pt list I think that court was for) but yes it would be more kick-ass and spammy in bigger matches

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:

 Kain wrote:
No, spend moar. Like armor, that funky 3++ save granting thing, and warscythes all around and the priciest crypteks you can get.

In really high points double FOC games, use four and troll everyone.

That "funky 3++ save thing" is the phase shifter for lords (45 pts each) and the timesplinter cloak for 1 cryptek with otherwise suckish wargear (30pts). As I said, I was on a budget (1500pt list I think that court was for) but yes it would be more kick-ass and spammy in bigger matches

Royal court disco inferno pretty much is all about sinking as much points as possible into a unit that cannot be beaten in a straight up fair fight.

So the only way to beat it is to not play by it's terms.

 Super Ready wrote:

 JGrand wrote:
I completely disagree. Dark Eldar/Eldar have a number of deathstar units.

Not to single this one particular comment out, it was suggested a few times - but I don't class the Harliestar as a deathstar. It's too easy to take out with template weapons which ignore the all important cover saves. When 6th first hit this was devastating as template weapons weren't all that popular, but now that we have Heldrakes, people who rushed in and bought tons of Daemon Flamers, Tau suits that can take 3 templates each... you get the idea.

Are there any other DE deathstars I'm missing?

Running a bunch of grotesques, a haemonculus, and an archon with alot of bling is not a bad deathstar, it just lacks alot of mobility. Ive had a lot of fun with a big pack of those guys however because they smash the crud out of everything they touch, you can even baron them out for a cover save and grenades.

I think one of the shining requirements to be a good deathstar is damage output. Even an IG blob with Azreal has a scary output, thus why it works, no one wants to charge it. It's a PITA to shoot down, thus deathstar qualities. Is it the best deathstar? No, but it is one of the cheaper ones.

From a comment earlier, the Tau deathstar if fairly resilent and man on man is it killy. I played my first game with it and it killed 8 units in 3 turns. Single handedly won me that game. the best part about it, it takes all the randomness of dice rolls (at least on offense) and throws them out the window with rerolls to hit, ignore cover saves, with a huge about of AP1/2 protected by a buttload of S5 AP5 shots as well.

Coyote81 wrote:
I think one of the shining requirements to be a good deathstar is damage output. Even an IG blob with Azreal has a scary output, thus why it works, no one wants to charge it. It's a PITA to shoot down, thus deathstar qualities. Is it the best deathstar? No, but it is one of the cheaper ones.

From a comment earlier, the Tau deathstar if fairly resilent and man on man is it killy. I played my first game with it and it killed 8 units in 3 turns. Single handedly won me that game. the best part about it, it takes all the randomness of dice rolls (at least on offense) and throws them out the window with rerolls to hit, ignore cover saves, with a huge about of AP1/2 protected by a buttload of S5 AP5 shots as well.

Whats your set-up on that farsight bomb?

The Guard do too have a deathstar, granted it is more along the lines of 42 lascannons at 2k than really anything else. So yes it is a giant laser of death so it is technically a death star .

 JGrand wrote:

Not to single this one particular comment out, it was suggested a few times - but I don't class the Harliestar as a deathstar. It's too easy to take out with template weapons which ignore the all important cover saves. When 6th first hit this was devastating as template weapons weren't all that popular, but now that we have Heldrakes, people who rushed in and bought tons of Daemon Flamers, Tau suits that can take 3 templates each... you get the idea.

Are there any other DE deathstars I'm missing?

I'm not saying that the Harliestar is unstoppable, but it is unquestionably a deathstar. 9 Harlies with kisses, 1 Shadowseer, Vect, Eldrad, and a Phoenix Lord comes in at around 900 points. While that isn't the only way to run the unit, that is the "all-in" version. With a character at each corner, they can survive quite a bit--including templates.

I just dont see the effectiveness of a Guard power blob. Yes it can hold an objective but its got only a 24in range with the lasguns so unless you move out its going to be difficult to get all the lasguns in range at one time. Also if you get into assault or manage to get a good round of shooting in where all the lasguns are still alive then your opponent did something wrong and your playing against an unskilled player lol.

Spending several hundred points for a few power axes and a couple of meltaguns hardly "kills plenty". Plus, I'd question how "competitive" of an environment they're really being played in if their opponents can't figure out how to kill a few dozen guardsmen. The opponents at my local store could run through over a hundred guardsmen in a single game without much extra effort, much less a few dozen thrown into one of the game's biggest points sinks.

These comments let me know that you aren't playing in events. The guard blob is a staple of some of the most competitive lists in the current 40k scene. 24" is a very solid range once said unit hits midfield. There are many ways to make a blob durable--Aegis, Divination powers, and Azreal to name a few. It is also likely that they will take an attached Primaris Psyker, which allows the possibility for Endurance.

If you think that they aren't killy, I also know that you have not played against them. Orders plus Prescience is absolutely devastating. I know Ailaros in particular likes to play the contrarian, but come on. All you have to do is look to the top tables to see why that the guard blob is extremely effective and competitive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Keep in mind, I am not advocating spending 1000 points on a blob. 30-50 Guardsmen with Power Axe armed sergeants works just fine with an attached Primaris Psyker and Space Marine character. Anything else (meltas, flamers, autocannons, krak grenades) are very optional.

That comes out to between 350 and 500ish points. Not exactly "selling out" to fit one in.

I dont play in big events but at my local meta a Guard blob usually gets wasted away to the smallest fire. The aegis will provide cover but the problem is that if your going to get to the center of the board then then that aegis will have to be forced a lot further up. I usually have a daemon prince of some kind getting into assault and challenging my blob like crazy just eating guys one at a time.

 Kain wrote:

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:

 Kain wrote:
No, spend moar. Like armor, that funky 3++ save granting thing, and warscythes all around and the priciest crypteks you can get.

In really high points double FOC games, use four and troll everyone.

That "funky 3++ save thing" is the phase shifter for lords (45 pts each) and the timesplinter cloak for 1 cryptek with otherwise suckish wargear (30pts). As I said, I was on a budget (1500pt list I think that court was for) but yes it would be more kick-ass and spammy in bigger matches

Royal court disco inferno pretty much is all about sinking as much points as possible into a unit that cannot be beaten in a straight up fair fight.

So the only way to beat it is to not play by it's terms.

For completion's sake (and for anyone unfamiliar with the basic concept of the RCDI), let me present the most ridiculous deathstar ever devised:

The Royal Court Disco Star
Zahndrek
Obyron
Destroyer Lord (MSS, 2+ Weave, Tach.Arrow)
Overlord (Warscythe, MSS, 2+ Weave, 3++ Shifter, Tach.Arrow, Tes.Lab, Phylactery)
Overlord (Warscythe, MSS, 2+ Weave, 3++ Shifter, Tach.Arrow, Tes.Lab, Phylactery)
Lord (Warscythe, MSS, 2+ Weave, 3++ Shifter, Tes.Lab)
Lord (Warscythe, MSS, 2+ Weave, 3++ Shifter, Tes.Lab)
Lord (Warscythe, MSS, 2+ Weave, 3++ Shifter, Tes.Lab)
Lord (Warscythe, MSS, 2+ Weave, 3++ Shifter, Tes.Lab)
Lord (Warscythe, MSS, 2+ Weave, 3++ Shifter, Tes.Lab, ResOrb)
Chrono-tek
Lightning-tek
Pulse-tek (w/ Gaze of Flame)
Seismic-Crucible-tek
Time-Splinter-tek

Weighing in at just under 2000 points (for a single unit), this thing is a nuclear powered rape train with no brakes.

Luckily, under the requirements of Force Organization, it is not practical to field this set up (not that anyone in their right mind would ever play such a monstrosity)... but if there was some way to get it onto a table (Apocalypse, etc), dear god, nothing would be able to stop it.

I dont play in big events but at my local meta a Guard blob usually gets wasted away to the smallest fire. The aegis will provide cover but the problem is that if your going to get to the center of the board then then that aegis will have to be forced a lot further up. I usually have a daemon prince of some kind getting into assault and challenging my blob like crazy just eating guys one at a time.

Then the people at your local meta don't know how to use them or properly support them.

This is Tony Kopach's most recent list. He is, if you are not aware, one of the best players in the United States by any objective measure (He's come in 2nd or 1rst at every Adepticon or NOVA for the last 3 years running if I'm not mistaken):


http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/16th-Seed-Tony-Kopach-2nd-Overall-Champion-Space-Marine-Imperial-Guard.pdf

And this is just one example. Google search top 16 results of any major tournament and you will see Blobs make an appearance.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

I dont play in big events but at my local meta a Guard blob usually gets wasted away to the smallest fire. The aegis will provide cover but the problem is that if your going to get to the center of the board then then that aegis will have to be forced a lot further up. I usually have a daemon prince of some kind getting into assault and challenging my blob like crazy just eating guys one at a time.

Then the people at your local meta don't know how to use them or properly support them.

This is Tony Kopach's most recent list. He is, if you are not aware, one of the best players in the United States by any objective measure (He's come in 2nd or 1rst at every Adepticon or NOVA for the last 3 years running if I'm not mistaken):


http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/16th-Seed-Tony-Kopach-2nd-Overall-Champion-Space-Marine-Imperial-Guard.pdf

And this is just one example. Google search top 16 results of any major tournament and you will see Blobs make an appearance.

Any idea how he runs it? It seems like hes missing alot of anti tank. Does he just run the blobs with each HQ? Or is he objective camping?

Any idea how he runs it? It seems like hes missing alot of anti tank. Does he just run the blobs with each HQ? Or is he objective camping?

I think it largely depends on the scenario and the list he is playing. I've only watched one game of his, against Cron Air, and he definitly pushed the middle with his blob (that was NOVA and I'm pretty sure he only had one blob in that list, it was more heavily Space Wolves).

JGrand can probably comment from a more informed position though as he's likely seen many more of his games in person.

Ive heard of his lists, I just would like to see how he runs it. Ive experimented and tried power blobs with those builds but they rarely work and are usually brought down rather quickly. Usually small army fire that picks of guys constantly or a daemon prince assaults and just challenges away in which he ties up a scoring unit for the duration of the game.

 Goat wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
After all, the real death star had a fatal weakness, too.

I don't think it means, what you think it means.

I had a good chuckle at this. The real, fake deathstar.

IMO a deathstar has to have the power to point at something and click delete. Otherwise, it's just a tarpit and/or waste of points.

It was real, it just was a long time ago and very far away

"Click delete" is probably the best definition of a death star unit, that go will in my collection of awesome quotes

Slaaneshstar:
Chaos lord on fiend of slaanesh w/outflank & acute senses
Plus 20 CSM w/ mark of slaanesh and "augmented" by fabius bile, who consequently is usually hiding behind oblits while the 21 str/init 5/5 goons wreak havoc.

Wraithstar:
10x wraithguard w/ warlock and...
3x wraithlords right behind them with 24ish str 6 shots

Death company star:
15x DC w/ variety builds and jumppacks and lemartes

I think it largely depends on the scenario and the list he is playing. I've only watched one game of his, against Cron Air, and he definitly pushed the middle with his blob (that was NOVA and I'm pretty sure he only had one blob in that list, it was more heavily Space Wolves).

JGrand can probably comment from a more informed position though as he's likely seen many more of his games in person.

I didn't watch the Adepticon games (saw a little of the last round on the live cast). At Nova last year, from what I saw, he pushed forward with the blob. Once you reach midfield, 24" is a pretty solid range.

 JGrand wrote:

I think it largely depends on the scenario and the list he is playing. I've only watched one game of his, against Cron Air, and he definitly pushed the middle with his blob (that was NOVA and I'm pretty sure he only had one blob in that list, it was more heavily Space Wolves).

JGrand can probably comment from a more informed position though as he's likely seen many more of his games in person.

I didn't watch the Adepticon games (saw a little of the last round on the live cast). At Nova last year, from what I saw, he pushed forward with the blob. Once you reach midfield, 24" is a pretty solid range.

If I may ask how is the terrain? is it very open of is there a lot of terrain blocking LoS and are they still played on 6x4 tables?