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You showed him the rule, and he refused to allow you to play it per the codex. Is that correct?

Just thank him for his time and move one.

I played against a guy who had a russ with plasma cannon sponsons. He said "I'm going to fire the plasma cannons first". I said "ok, but if you do, you can't fire the main gun" and explained why he couldn't. So he fired his plasma cannons and said "right, now I'm going to fire the battle cannon" I had to explain to him about 3 or 4 times why he couldn't do that.

I once got yelled at during a tournament after their 'army list' they provided me just listed units and upgrades but not rules.

Not being very familiar with the new Chaos Space Marine Codex that had come out I asked him a few questions so I can plan my deployment. Things like:

Do you have any Deepstriking Units, and do they have Flamers?

I got yelled at that I was taking away his advantages and got slammed in sportsmanship....

Last Tournement I got slammed with sportsmanship. Was playing sister/grey knights and had 1750 points. TO ran my list thru his army builder and told me I was at 2400 points, my response was," Thats not possible" he ran it again and came up with 2200, Had to explain to him per GK codex every unit comes with a justicar, not justicar Thrawn. Mid match too. took an hour out of my match to call me a cheat and a liar. my opponent was awesome and ran my list points, found nothing wrong with it, we both back to the TO and was told dont argue. I will never play that guy again

 conker249 wrote:
Last Tournement I got slammed with sportsmanship. Was playing sister/grey knights and had 1750 points. TO ran my list thru his army builder and told me I was at 2400 points, my response was," Thats not possible" he ran it again and came up with 2200, Had to explain to him per GK codex every unit comes with a justicar, not justicar Thrawn. Mid match too. took an hour out of my match to call me a cheat and a liar. my opponent was awesome and ran my list points, found nothing wrong with it, we both back to the TO and was told dont argue. I will never play that guy again

That guy sounds like one of those self-obsessed, "I-Am-Always-Right" people... Best avoided...

Best avoided indeed. I will not play him, His wife drops him off at the game store mon-fri like daycare.

Pouncey wrote:
My problem is that I tend to assume a lot of things. Sometimes more than I should, but usually it works out fine. Sometimes it gets me in deep, deep sh- trouble, like when I confused the french word for "little girl" with the french word for, "woman." They're only one letter off, you know.

I am sorry, but we need more details. You can't just say something like this and leave it hanging

Tactical_Genius wrote:

 conker249 wrote:
Last Tournement I got slammed with sportsmanship. Was playing sister/grey knights and had 1750 points. TO ran my list thru his army builder and told me I was at 2400 points, my response was," Thats not possible" he ran it again and came up with 2200, Had to explain to him per GK codex every unit comes with a justicar, not justicar Thrawn. Mid match too. took an hour out of my match to call me a cheat and a liar. my opponent was awesome and ran my list points, found nothing wrong with it, we both back to the TO and was told dont argue. I will never play that guy again

That guy sounds like one of those self-obsessed, "I-Am-Always-Right" people... Best avoided...

So wait, are you telling me the one who was TFG was the TO? That really isn't a smart attitude

 conker249 wrote:
Last Tournement I got slammed with sportsmanship. Was playing sister/grey knights and had 1750 points. TO ran my list thru his army builder and told me I was at 2400 points, my response was," Thats not possible" he ran it again and came up with 2200, Had to explain to him per GK codex every unit comes with a justicar, not justicar Thrawn. Mid match too. took an hour out of my match to call me a cheat and a liar. my opponent was awesome and ran my list points, found nothing wrong with it, we both back to the TO and was told dont argue. I will never play that guy again

TFG TO sounds like the guy who owns one of the two LGS in my city center, he got into an argument over a a M:tg rule that the owner was wrong on and rather than admitting his mistake having been shown the rules just banned the guy he was arguing with from his store. Admittedly this donkeycaves tomfoolery is vast and varied. For instance his store used to be a one day a night miniaturegame/warhammer night. Decided to hog a whole table of the only 3 he had for an RP because "were using lego figs as minis so its a miniature game". Yeah I get that it's his store but he acts like a child with a personal clubhouse -_- and just to point out the RP lego incident was when they actually had to have a waiting list for people to book games in advance before the other LGS got tablespace.

Tactical_Genius wrote:

 conker249 wrote:
Last Tournement I got slammed with sportsmanship. Was playing sister/grey knights and had 1750 points. TO ran my list thru his army builder and told me I was at 2400 points, my response was," Thats not possible" he ran it again and came up with 2200, Had to explain to him per GK codex every unit comes with a justicar, not justicar Thrawn. Mid match too. took an hour out of my match to call me a cheat and a liar. my opponent was awesome and ran my list points, found nothing wrong with it, we both back to the TO and was told dont argue. I will never play that guy again

That guy sounds like one of those self-obsessed, "I-Am-Always-Right" people... Best avoided...

That's lesson #1.

Lesson #2, don't use electronic army builders. Kick it old school with the good ole pen and paper.

On the subject of TFG's and rule misinterpretations, I have had the (thankfully rather minor) misfortune to on multiple occasions play against a guy who is adamant that if there is even a single tiny model (such as a grot) in front of one of my models, I cannot fire at something behind it.
This generally manifests strange things as follows:

1. If there is one of my models in front of the middle of my vehicle's hull, I cannot fire at anything directly in front of it, even though none of the lines of fire pass through the aforementioned model.

2. If there is one of my models in the forward arc of my Heldrake, the Heldrake cannot ever fire. This extends to almost any range.

3. If there is a grot mob in front of a battlewagon, I cannot aim for the battlewagon.

There are similar shenanigans with his "terrain rulings".

Experiment 626 wrote:
We once had a 'customer', (I use that term loosely because the most they would buy would be a couple pots of paint), one time bring their crystal dildo into the local GW store because they thought it would be a hilarious joke to show off for the guys on staff...

Suffice to say, the mother who was standing a few feet away with her young son when this idiot did this was rather horrified.

Ok...you win. I have no words. Wait, male or female (scratch that. I don't want to know).

 Wilytank wrote:

Tactical_Genius wrote:

 conker249 wrote:
Last Tournement I got slammed with sportsmanship. Was playing sister/grey knights and had 1750 points. TO ran my list thru his army builder and told me I was at 2400 points, my response was," Thats not possible" he ran it again and came up with 2200, Had to explain to him per GK codex every unit comes with a justicar, not justicar Thrawn. Mid match too. took an hour out of my match to call me a cheat and a liar. my opponent was awesome and ran my list points, found nothing wrong with it, we both back to the TO and was told dont argue. I will never play that guy again

That guy sounds like one of those self-obsessed, "I-Am-Always-Right" people... Best avoided...

That's lesson #1.

Lesson #2, don't use electronic army builders. Kick it old school with the good ole pen and paper.

Haha I'm with you. I use army builder BUT I always have the list handwritten and hand calculated as well. Just double and triple checked to avoid being that guy.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
did you show him it in the book?

Most egrarious stupid person incident I remember is from when I was nine or ten years old. Third edition had just come out and one of the people at my school's warhammer club told me that the Crossfire rule meant that if you had a model either side of the target, it was automatically destroyed. I of course got rather upset at this, since he'd just (also illegally) zoomed a bike over behind my army, meaning that everything was between his models.

His answer to my demand to see the rule was to open it to the page, shove his finger at the heading, then close it again and refuse to actually let me read it. sigh. I was 9, I got very upset.

That's not stupid, per se, that's a cheating POS.

 Selym wrote:
On the subject of TFG's and rule misinterpretations, I have had the (thankfully rather minor) misfortune to on multiple occasions play against a guy who is adamant that if there is even a single tiny model (such as a grot) in front of one of my models, I cannot fire at something behind it.
This generally manifests strange things as follows:

1. If there is one of my models in front of the middle of my vehicle's hull, I cannot fire at anything directly in front of it, even though none of the lines of fire pass through the aforementioned model.

2. If there is one of my models in the forward arc of my Heldrake, the Heldrake cannot ever fire. This extends to almost any range.

3. If there is a grot mob in front of a battlewagon, I cannot aim for the battlewagon.

There are similar shenanigans with his "terrain rulings".

My first ever GW Grand Tournament, (playing on the Fantasy side with my Bretonnians mind), I drew up against a guy who not only had an illegal list, (dual Manticores which was not allowed back in 5th edition), but he also tried to claim the 'hill' on the table which barely covered just above the hooves of his horsies completely obstructed line of sight and thus meant my knight buses couldn't charge his unit...

Karma luckily came to the rescue however... After I showed him the special 'Enraged Bound Monster' rule for his (illegal)manticores, along with the 4 other guys to either side of us telling this gakker I was right, his General's mount rolled boxcars for his Ld test & then fled the battlefield entirely!

 dementedwombat wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
We once had a 'customer', (I use that term loosely because the most they would buy would be a couple pots of paint), one time bring their crystal dildo into the local GW store because they thought it would be a hilarious joke to show off for the guys on staff...

Suffice to say, the mother who was standing a few feet away with her young son when this idiot did this was rather horrified.

Ok...you win. I have no words. Wait, male or female (scratch that. I don't want to know).

Trust me, you *really* don't want that mental image! *shudders at the memory*

This person would also do other really dumb crap like try to illegally pirate another nearby store's internet signal to try and show us their Transformers crap... or simply make the most heinously inappropriate comments ever - with children standing all of three feet away... or just make piggy noises... (among other things)

Suffice it to say, we would be kicking this moron out on a fairly routine basis. Only to have them then call up customer service and complain that we were being giant donkeycaves, which would mean our manager having to waste time explaining what really happened and why we had told this person to please remove themselves from the store.

Like others had said, its not stupidity - its willful ignorance and low self esteem - some people cannot handle to be wrong, or once they realize they are wrong, cant admit it in public, because its an acknowledgment of a weakness to them.

I once ran into a guy who was starting to do something like this, and I was about to throttle him, then calmly said "do you really believe honestly, or did we maybe just have a misunderstanding".

since I was not rude to him, he did calm down, and say 'maybe you just misunderstood me". which was not the case, but we got past that, and had an ok game.

Of course, this does not work with everyone - I have encountered people I won't play with because they can never be wrong.

best of luck!

davethepak wrote:
Like others had said, its not stupidity - its willful ignorance and low self esteem - some people cannot handle to be wrong, or once they realize they are wrong, cant admit it in public, because its an acknowledgment of a weakness to them.

I once ran into a guy who was starting to do something like this, and I was about to throttle him, then calmly said "do you really believe honestly, or did we maybe just have a misunderstanding".

since I was not rude to him, he did calm down, and say 'maybe you just misunderstood me". which was not the case, but we got past that, and had an ok game.

Of course, this does not work with everyone - I have encountered people I won't play with because they can never be wrong.

best of luck!

The person in question was running what seemed like a stock standardheldrake CSM list and was my age or a little older.

He pulled me up on everything. "How do your monsters have skyfire AND FNP?" Why can the fireblade dude shoot at other targets?

I'm a rather patient player. I have a friend who has early game movement phases that can take a year. I don't mind explaining rules, I don't mind getting a consensus opinion from a bystander. What I do mind is being treated like dirt because my opponent is too proud to simply accept that he is in the wrong.

For a long time, I was running jet pack infantry as if they could move 12" in the movement phase. (I genuinely thought they could.) when someone showed me that there was no rule giving them permission to move so quickly, I asked to look at the rules, found he was correct and apologised for my mistake. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect the ame of others.

Chancetragedy wrote:

 Wilytank wrote:

Tactical_Genius wrote:

 conker249 wrote:
Last Tournement I got slammed with sportsmanship. Was playing sister/grey knights and had 1750 points. TO ran my list thru his army builder and told me I was at 2400 points, my response was," Thats not possible" he ran it again and came up with 2200, Had to explain to him per GK codex every unit comes with a justicar, not justicar Thrawn. Mid match too. took an hour out of my match to call me a cheat and a liar. my opponent was awesome and ran my list points, found nothing wrong with it, we both back to the TO and was told dont argue. I will never play that guy again

That guy sounds like one of those self-obsessed, "I-Am-Always-Right" people... Best avoided...

That's lesson #1.

Lesson #2, don't use electronic army builders. Kick it old school with the good ole pen and paper.

Haha I'm with you. I use army builder BUT I always have the list handwritten and hand calculated as well. Just double and triple checked to avoid being that guy.

While I didn't have point totals on my list for every upgrade, I did have total points for each unit and list of upgrades, Sisters with Grey knight allies. I still lost pretty bad, so it wasn't like I lost overall over this. Very disheartening to be called a cheater and a liar. After that I felt like just packing up and leaving. I mean what can you do after the TO tells you that and wont admit he was wrong when it counted?

I had a rather vocal argument with a freind at my FLGS during a game due to Warlord traits. I rolled the trait that says 'any enemy unit within 12" must use their lowest available Ld', and he rolled the trait that said 'any friendly unit within 12" may use the Warlords Ld'.

It took 30 minutes to telling him, in many different ways, that his trait gave him the option of a higher Ld within 12" of his warlord, my trait force him to pick the lowest when within 12" of mine. One gave an additional option, the other forced the lowest option available, if the situation ever arose (it did, and we rolled off).

Even when store staff walked over, asked what it was about, and said 'must overrides may', he continued the argument with them.

We never did get that one sorted out. Thankfully it hasn't happened since.

 -Loki- wrote:
I had a rather vocal argument with a freind at my FLGS during a game due to Warlord traits. I rolled the trait that says 'any enemy unit within 12" must use their lowest available Ld', and he rolled the trait that said 'any friendly unit within 12" may use the Warlords Ld'.

It took 30 minutes to telling him, in many different ways, that his trait gave him the option of a higher Ld within 12" of his warlord, my trait force him to pick the lowest when within 12" of mine. One gave an additional option, the other forced the lowest option available, if the situation ever arose (it did, and we rolled off).

Even when store staff walked over, asked what it was about, and said 'must overrides may', he continued the argument with them.

We never did get that one sorted out. Thankfully it hasn't happened since.

Thankfully. My tau commander has no reason to roll on anything but the tau chart.

 TheDraconicLord wrote:

Pouncey wrote:
My problem is that I tend to assume a lot of things. Sometimes more than I should, but usually it works out fine. Sometimes it gets me in deep, deep sh- trouble, like when I confused the french word for "little girl" with the french word for, "woman." They're only one letter off, you know.

I am sorry, but we need more details. You can't just say something like this and leave it hanging

I was practicing my french in front of my family, and unfortunately chose the sentence, "I would like to *ahem* a woman."

Because I'm stupid like that. x///x

 Selym wrote:
On the subject of TFG's and rule misinterpretations, I have had the (thankfully rather minor) misfortune to on multiple occasions play against a guy who is adamant that if there is even a single tiny model (such as a grot) in front of one of my models, I cannot fire at something behind it.
This generally manifests strange things as follows:

1. If there is one of my models in front of the middle of my vehicle's hull, I cannot fire at anything directly in front of it, even though none of the lines of fire pass through the aforementioned model.

2. If there is one of my models in the forward arc of my Heldrake, the Heldrake cannot ever fire. This extends to almost any range.

3. If there is a grot mob in front of a battlewagon, I cannot aim for the battlewagon.

There are similar shenanigans with his "terrain rulings".

Funny, way back in 2nd ed there was a rule like this. Basically you had to shoot at the nearest unit in the model's firing arc (troops had firing arcs back then). Now, a regular infantry in front of a vehicle or MC, you could choose to shoot at the vehicle or MC. But if, lets say, you had a brood of termagants in front of a unit of genestealers then you had to shoot the termagants first.

Game One: "if you go to ground you can't do anything except snap fire until the end of the next turn"
Game Two: "if I go to ground I get up at the end of the turn"
Game Three: "A fun list only game? Sure! (brings helldrakes) (brags when he kills my double Warphead feral Orks list easily)"
Game Four: (finally kill a fething helldrake) "wait, waittt! (looks through rules for five minutes) Ah look, the such and such rule, which means the hell drake cannot be destroyed by X. Heh heheheh heeheheheheeheheheheheehhhhehehehehe(nerdiestlaugheverforatleastaminute)hehehehhheheheheeheh helldrakes!"
Game Five: "(his turn, while moving an Obliterator or something) This is an Obliterator. It does A... B... C... D... E... F...", next turn: "this is X, it does Y... Z... A... B...", and finally, the turn after "this is a mutilator, instead of just moving the fething thing, or like, talking and moving at the same time, I'm going to explain all its abilities that its probably not even gonna use this game since your about to nuke it off the board"
Game Six: "I can see that one Ork's foot. That means I can shoot the whole squad which is in LoS blocking cover!"
Game Seven: (fires at five Orks with three of those 20+ shot IG tanks) "feth it I'll just take them off the board, they're totally dead and its way faster" "nooooo, I wanna roll the dice, etc etc slow the game down even more than I usually do"
All Games: (take 4 hours to play a 1000-1500 point game)

I need to stop believing this guy. He's autistic or something, and sells amazing bits (autocannons and stuff) for like 10 cents each so I have to pretend to like him... god he's so slow though

 Dakkamite wrote:
Game One: "if you go to ground you can't do anything except snap fire until the end of the next turn"
Game Two: "if I go to ground I get up at the end of the turn"
Game Three: "A fun list only game? Sure! (brings helldrakes) (brags when he kills my double Warphead feral Orks list easily)"
Game Four: (finally kill a fething helldrake) "wait, waittt! (looks through rules for five minutes) Ah look, the such and such rule, which means the hell drake cannot be destroyed by X. Heh heheheh heeheheheheeheheheheheehhhhehehehehe(nerdiestlaugheverforatleastaminute)hehehehhheheheheeheh helldrakes!"
Game Five: "(his turn, while moving an Obliterator or something) This is an Obliterator. It does A... B... C... D... E... F...", next turn: "this is X, it does Y... Z... A... B...", and finally, the turn after "this is a mutilator, instead of just moving the fething thing, or like, talking and moving at the same time, I'm going to explain all its abilities that its probably not even gonna use this game since your about to nuke it off the board"
Game Six: "I can see that one Ork's foot. That means I can shoot the whole squad which is in LoS blocking cover!"
Game Seven: (fires at five Orks with three of those 20+ shot IG tanks) "feth it I'll just take them off the board, they're totally dead and its way faster" "nooooo, I wanna roll the dice, etc etc slow the game down even more than I usually do"
All Games: (take 4 hours to play a 1000-1500 point game)

I need to stop believing this guy. He's autistic or something, and sells amazing bits (autocannons and stuff) for like 10 cents each so I have to pretend to like him... god he's so slow though

That's how long it takes my mom and I to play games of that size. Usually we spread it out over a week or two. But we're always looking up rules since my memory is very sketchy on things like exact phrasing, and hers is just downright terrible.

 Dakkamite wrote:
I need to stop believing this guy. He's autistic or something, and sells amazing bits (autocannons and stuff) for like 10 cents each so I have to pretend to like him... god he's so slow though

No, you need to stop playing against him. Seriously, you post over and over again about how 6th is terrible and it's really because your opponents are terrible. So stop playing against them and supporting their bad behavior.

But then he'd have no one to play. Seriously, I'm the only one who does it. Guess theres a reason for that, but then again, he is certainly not right in the head and only like 14 years old so I'd feel bad if he had no one to game with.

A guy even took me to the side last time and warned me that that guy doesn't know gak about the rules. Thats the only reason I clued on.

I don't really think people are stupid. The issue is that most people are very intelligent but a select few are immature to the level that they will do anything to win at the game they've invested so much time and money in.
Calling people stupid isn't really productive and is usually wrong. When I come across a player like this, who is usially young or ironically has their own children in some cases, I tend to let them have their way. I couldn't care less if I lost to a child. Whether that person is physically pr just mentally a child. However I really don't enjoy the conflict in a public place with someone who won't relent. It's much better to take the high road and just never play them again.

I think it would be more accurate to say stubborn instead of stupid. Some people just can't admit when they are wrong, even if you show them proof. I find these people in all kinds of stuff, like 40k, MtG, D&D, most card or board games, my job as a software designer/engineer.

I know these people are not stupid (most of them anyway), and if the debate had been less heated would have been easily able to understand the truth, or at least my version of it.

I have to admit i have a strong inclination to be a little argumentative when i feel myself to be fooled or side-tracked by rules i dont recall being like that or otherwise sounds wrong.

However, i like to think that most of the time i bring my rule book and hit up on the rule before arguments last too long, or just go with it for the sake of the game.

So i think its a issue that not everyone is an arse, or stupid if they argue against rules or the wording of them, but a slight paranoia that they might be double crossed and being cheated against right under their nose.

I've got two tales:

1) Playing against CSM with my Twin LRC Templars. Every single time he fired something at me, he asked what toughness my marines are. It got to the point where I said: "Right, for future reference, EVERYTHING in my army that isn't a tank, is T4." 2 Minutes after, he asked me again.

Now He might have just been really forgetful, but he said he'd been playing 40K for a couple of years. Damn near every marine is T4. And this guy would ask several times a phase.

2)My other one was against a IG player at our LGS. It was one of these fun "Bring down a choice from slots X, Y and Z and complete this mission." So we started playing when I noticed this kid was doing a whole lot of not missing. Intrigued, I started to watch his rolls. Which was when I noticed that he was rolling either when he thought no one was looking or just doing it really fast so nobody could get a good look at them. Now I've noticed he does it in nearly every game he plays. When someone pulled him on it he denied it (obviously) until one of the staff told him it was a reasonable request. Then his guard suddenly became a lot less accurate...

Worse than players are when TOs get daft ideas and they really think they are being creative. I leave it to you to decide if these are examples of daft tournament arrangements.

Announce a regular 2k tournament, but after everyone shows up and pays the TO announces he has randomly assigned players to teams of two. So now you have a total of 8k points to deploy on a regular table and are paired with some random person and their army. People were not pleased.

Same TO, different tournament, thinks it would be cool to have half the tables literally set up as city fight terrain and half the tables to be virtually featureless desert or ice world planets. As you can imagine, depending on your luck with the table assignment you would be at a great advantage or disadvantage depending on your army.

The pathetic thing was that the the TO and store owner thought these were great ideas JUST BECAUSE they were DIFFERENT than most scenarios and terrain set up. The whole store became GAK because they wanted to develop the idea they were some elite group of gamers.