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So new codex and as a long time Eldar player and fan (nearly 20 years!) I'm really unhappy with the new rules. I hate to start a thread so negatively but there are a number things which I think make this a poor release;

1. All random psychic powers - Eldar are reliant on these as force multipliers and the loss of certainty in gaining powers makes us a whole lot weaker.
2. Expensive units - With some exceptions, autarchs and bikes namely, everything is over priced for how fragile it is.
3. Wraith constructs everywhere - this seems to be the focus of the release, understandably to sell more models but I've always been non-plussed by them. The wraith knight seems like a missed opportunity, no doubt it will sell well but it doesn't do much for its points.

It's not all negative as I like the blade storm rule (ap2 small arms what's not to like!) but even that is soured by the ranges staying the same. Jetbikes are arguably the best scoring units in the game if they weren't before and the much maligned swooping hawks actually seem to be reasonably decent. Also the Vaul's wrath platforms look cost effective and dangerous barrage weapons, along with Serpents kicking out decent firepower too.

I hoped a 2+ fortuned bike council with attached Tau super commander would be viable but if you don't roll up some key powers its likely to be game over before its even begun.

I just had such hig hopes, probably raised my expectations too high after the awesome Tau book. So much of the Eldar powers and gear are very situational, expensive and on non-durable platforms, I know we're specialists and everything needs to work in concert but I fail to see how we won't get smashed off the table by other 6th ed armies.

Heres hoping the mini codi help to elevate the Eldar from mediocrity.

If you think the Iyanden codex is going to present you with a lot of new rules for units and characters I think you should prepare yourself for disappointment.

The real question, that is interesting is, how does this codex compare in general to the books for other armies. I am sure all long term players have their well fixed ideas and expectations but do you seriously expect GW is going to fullfill your personal and probably very specific wishes?

Can the Eldar compete? Do they have multiple decent builds? How do they synergize with available allies? These are the kind of questions that need to be answered before labelling the codex as a failure or success.

Every player has their own personal wishlist, which is not terribly interesting.

Everyone else gets their psychic powers at random and the design team likes the random table idea, its astonishing that people expected the Eldar to be able to pick their powers.

The Eldar received some nice buffs but the demon army received way more random crap than anyone should have to deal with. Have you even built a list or played a game yet? Do you think the general increase in BS to 4 is not any good. What about being able to shoot and run, or run and shoot?

I think your complaints are very premature.

Disagree strongly. I think you gloss over the massive positive changes - battle focus, shuriken rending, BS4 etc - and concentrate on things that are still weaknesses. Of course there are still weaknesses. If everything in the army was the best unit ever then every non-eldar player would (justifiably) be complaining.

Let's just experiment with new rules and armies and enjoy the excitement of fresh options+possibilities, before we go around bemoaning our fate.

djn wrote:
So new codex and as a long time Eldar player and fan (nearly 20 years!) I'm really unhappy with the new rules. I hate to start a thread so negatively but there are a number things which I think make this a poor release;

1. All random psychic powers - Eldar are reliant on these as force multipliers and the loss of certainty in gaining powers makes us a whole lot weaker.
2. Expensive units - With some exceptions, autarchs and bikes namely, everything is over priced for how fragile it is.
3. Wraith constructs everywhere - this seems to be the focus of the release, understandably to sell more models but I've always been non-plussed by them. The wraith knight seems like a missed opportunity, no doubt it will sell well but it doesn't do much for its points.

It's not all negative as I like the blade storm rule (ap2 small arms what's not to like!) but even that is soured by the ranges staying the same. Jetbikes are arguably the best scoring units in the game if they weren't before and the much maligned swooping hawks actually seem to be reasonably decent. Also the Vaul's wrath platforms look cost effective and dangerous barrage weapons, along with Serpents kicking out decent firepower too.

I hoped a 2+ fortuned bike council with attached Tau super commander would be viable but if you don't roll up some key powers its likely to be game over before its even begun.

I just had such hig hopes, probably raised my expectations too high after the awesome Tau book. So much of the Eldar powers and gear are very situational, expensive and on non-durable platforms, I know we're specialists and everything needs to work in concert but I fail to see how we won't get smashed off the table by other 6th ed armies.

Heres hoping the mini codi help to elevate the Eldar from mediocrity.

MOTHER OF THE EMPRAH.

You can still potentially get an Asurmen with re-rolls of 1 on both 2+ armor save and 4++ save, or in close combat re-rolls of 1 on 2+ armor save and 3++ save due to Shield of Grace power. It means non-AP 2 weapon hits have a 1/36 chance or only 2.78% chance of making it past the armor, and even when you have to rely on the invulnerable you have only 25% chance of failing ranged invulnerables and 11.11% of failing close combat invulnerables.

Also, do the Shining Spears and Warp Spiders finally have a phoenix lord?

And has Maugan-Ra solo'd another hive fleet/chaos host/waaagh/tomb world/imperial crusade yet?

Seriously, how do you solo a hive fleet!?!

Where do you keep the ammo?!

WS oh only 1 in 6 pens are actually pens

So your problems are:
1. Something literally every army has had, and will continue to have
2. Things got cheaper or became better values from a points perspective
3. Your personal preference

Yeah, I'm not really seeing these problems at all. They seem like they'll be a decently strong, middle of the road army that still requires some finesse to use correctly. They also reduced the reliance on Scatter Lasers and Fire Dragons by making Brightlances cheaper across the board, so now there are a few more viable anti-tank weapons in the army. They even got a good air-to-air fighter. Eldar are well off.

djn wrote:
I hoped a 2+ fortuned bike council with attached Tau super commander would be viable but if you don't roll up some key powers its likely to be game over before its even begun.

The main complaint here seems to be that you can't find a guarunteed I-Win unit after a day of reading the codex. A bloo bloo bloooo.

Virtually everything in the codex either got cheaper, got buffed, or more likely, both. Here's a quick comparison of the Fast Attack page between the last 2 Eldar codexes:

Shining Spears cheaper by 10pts each
Warp Spiders cheaper by 3pts each, plus huge buffs to mobility and firepower
Swooping Hawks cheaper by 5pts each, plus mobility and firepower boosts
Vypers are the same base price, but with BS4 and cheaper weapon upgrades (some of which are also buffed)

That's just one page. You don't have to look very far for more. Unless of course you were hoping for Avatars at 5pts each that could be taken as Troops choices and automatically grant an invulnerable save to everything within 48". Then I'm afraid you're out of luck.

 Brother SRM wrote:
So your problems are:
1. Something literally every army has had, and will continue to have
2. Things got cheaper or became better values from a points perspective
3. Your personal preference

Yeah, I'm not really seeing these problems at all.

Don't we end up reading something similar to this everytime a new codex drops? First ita complaining about how they acrewed up your old army, then the xomplaints about new books being unbalanced or overpowered.

Give it six months.

Yeah I'm used to orks having random psychic powers, that makes sense. but I would think an eldar would be able to prepare his spells before a fight.

 Icculus wrote:
Yeah I'm used to orks having random psychic powers, that makes sense. but I would think an eldar would be able to prepare his spells before a fight.

You'd also think a Marine Librarian or Hive Tyrant would too. Decades of training, direct access to the hive mind, etc, etc.

However GW has decided that extra randomness makes the game more entertaining, so it's something everyone needs to put up with.

Well having more randomness also prevents people from developing a perfect army and encourages people to buy more models to try out different tactics

As a long time eldar player, this codex makes me happy. A lot of the things i want along with toning down of some of the OP stuff (eldrad). Wraith stuff is very cheesy as it fits with no part of the fluff until now (most craftworlds dont even use wraith constructs at all).

I do wish pathfinders werent so expensive
I do wish powers for eldrad could be rerolled or something (are you telling me one of the oldest characters in the universe doenst know how to use the most essential eldar powers?)
I do wish eldar had a assault transport for our melee units
I do wish our fliers were at all useful
I do wish guardians became useful
I do wish the wraithknight had 5A WS5 for that cost or lance on his weapons
But i dont need any of those. The army has enough things in each slot to keep me happy. Running the old codex for so long i am comfortable with a lot of the play of each unit. This edition just buffed the same playstyle and make a few units that had no purpose cost effective. I can deal with that.

 zephoid wrote:
As a long time eldar player, this codex makes me happy. A lot of the things i want along with toning down of some of the OP stuff (eldrad). Wraith stuff is very cheesy as it fits with no part of the fluff until now (most craftworlds dont even use wraith constructs at all).

Wrong on that point. Spirit host formations have always been available to all craftworlds ever since 2nd edition Epic (i.e. 1990's). All craftworlds will use wraith constructs. Iyanden is just noted for doing so in greater frequency since they were attacked by Kraken.

Also:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1320010_Swordwind_Part_3_-_Baran_War.pdf

Biel-Tan, using wraithguard and wraithlords.

Wraithguard are only used in the defense of the craftworld or for missions of great importance. The loss of a eldar is regretable. The loss of a wraith construct is essentially stripping souls from the infinity circuit. I think every codex that i have read has included something to the likes that using wraithguard is essentially tomb robbing. Iyaden uses wraith constructs more often due to the smaller population and out of necessity. Current in-game eldar tactics is throwing them at the enemy as much as possible. Its like making 5 point horde guardians.

 zephoid wrote:
Wraithguard are only used in the defense of the craftworld or for missions of great importance. The loss of a eldar is regretable. The loss of a wraith construct is essentially stripping souls from the infinity circuit. I think every codex that i have read has included something to the likes that using wraithguard is essentially tomb robbing. Iyaden uses wraith constructs more often due to the smaller population and out of necessity. Current in-game eldar tactics is throwing them at the enemy as much as possible. Its like making 5 point horde guardians.

And that is a backtrack from your earlier claim other craftworlds didn't use wraith constructs at all.

Wraith constructs are also durable. The spirit stone within can often survive the destruction of the construct and then be re-used.

In other words, there is no grounds to criticize another player as not fluffy if they choose to include wraith constructs.

1. I do agree with the random psychic powers being nerfed. we rely too much on force multipliers and to lose the certainty of getting fortune or others is terrible.
2. I made a list for an upcoming tournament with the old codex then when I got the new one I substituted the old points costs for the new ones and the same army was about 150 points CHEAPER than the other one
3. I don't really a problem with there being so many wraith constructs. personally, I like wraithgrard.

 I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:
Disagree strongly. I think you gloss over the massive positive changes - battle focus, shuriken rending, BS4 etc - and concentrate on things that are still weaknesses. Of course there are still weaknesses. If everything in the army was the best unit ever then every non-eldar player would (justifiably) be complaining.

Let's just experiment with new rules and armies and enjoy the excitement of fresh options+possibilities, before we go around bemoaning our fate.

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly said it well: you glossed over the positive changes and concentrate on the weaknesses

 zephoid wrote:
Wraithguard are only used in the defense of the craftworld or for missions of great importance. The loss of a eldar is regretable. The loss of a wraith construct is essentially stripping souls from the infinity circuit. I think every codex that i have read has included something to the likes that using wraithguard is essentially tomb robbing. Iyaden uses wraith constructs more often due to the smaller population and out of necessity. Current in-game eldar tactics is throwing them at the enemy as much as possible. Its like making 5 point horde guardians.

Well fluff and rules do not always translate 1 to 1. There needs to be a variety of units available to make the army interesting, I think you are fighting an uphill losing battle here.

Good bye jetbike Seer council, Hello Guardian Jetbikes and Warp Spiders!

I feel sorry for the poor fellows that bought and converted Jetbike Seers. that's gotta hurt

You can still take a jetseer council.

:edit:

They are actually cheaper now, if you count in the psychic powers, which you no longer have to pay for.
Just done the maths on it, it's 130pts cheaper for a similarly equipped 10 warlock/1 farseer unit.
Yup, they've been nerfed to death...

 marv335 wrote:
You can still take a jetseer council, Granted, they have gone up 5 pts/model, but you can still do it.

And I'd still throw a fit if you did because of my bad memories of how hard they are to kill and how much hurt they can unleash.

 Smarteye wrote:
Good bye jetbike Seer council, Hello Guardian Jetbikes and Warp Spiders!

I feel sorry for the poor fellows that bought and converted Jetbike Seers. that's gotta hurt

What's going to interesting is when people begin to realize that this army, like the Tau army will make excellent allies. Standing on it's own merits? Give it few months for additional FAQ's to tone it down if any.

I've gone over the book and with some odd decisions and so on, I can only spot one single item that got nerfed. Hard. Into the crust of whatever asteroid 6th edition placed them on in the last codex. It's not Howling Banshees, which still languish in a twilight realm where they need a transport that doesn't exist. It's...

Fire Dragons.

Fuegan, on the other hand, stick him in a 10 man Warlock Council and with some careful manipulation of Look Out Sir! you'll be able to make an absolute monster.

Fire dragons are still pretty good, being okayishly tough and very reliable meltagun spammers. When you spam special weapons in those kinds of quantities they become drastically more effective. See burnaboyz for further proof and how they've become virtually unassaultable due to all the overwatch they can put out.

 Mahtamori wrote:
I've gone over the book and with some odd decisions and so on, I can only spot one single item that got nerfed. Hard. Into the crust of whatever asteroid 6th edition placed them on in the last codex. It's not Howling Banshees, which still languish in a twilight realm where they need a transport that doesn't exist. It's...

Fire Dragons.

If this is true, then Dire Avengers should be absolutely rubbish.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Mahtamori wrote:
I've gone over the book and with some odd decisions and so on, I can only spot one single item that got nerfed. Hard. Into the crust of whatever asteroid 6th edition placed them on in the last codex. It's not Howling Banshees, which still languish in a twilight realm where they need a transport that doesn't exist. It's...

Fire Dragons.

If this is true, then Dire Avengers should be absolutely rubbish.

And they're not at all.

 Mahtamori wrote:
I've gone over the book and with some odd decisions and so on, I can only spot one single item that got nerfed. Hard. Into the crust of whatever asteroid 6th edition placed them on in the last codex. It's not Howling Banshees, which still languish in a twilight realm where they need a transport that doesn't exist. It's...

Fire Dragons.

Are you high? They went up by 2 points and got a 3+ save for the trouble. Not to mention Battle Focus to help get into perfect 2D6 Melta range and more survivable Wave Serpents to get them there.

If anything, the only downside to Fire Dragons now is that there are actually affordable alternatives in the codex in other slots, since we're no longer paying 40pts for each Bright Lance.

I think that Fire dragons and bright lances will make monstrous creature spammers have a very bad day indeed. They won't care about your T6 or armor save and the Eldar can bring enough of them to bring down just about any MC in the game in one round of shooting, fire dragons can even do it with just a single unit.

 Kain wrote:

djn wrote:
So new codex and as a long time Eldar player and fan (nearly 20 years!) I'm really unhappy with the new rules. I hate to start a thread so negatively but there are a number things which I think make this a poor release;

1. All random psychic powers - Eldar are reliant on these as force multipliers and the loss of certainty in gaining powers makes us a whole lot weaker.
2. Expensive units - With some exceptions, autarchs and bikes namely, everything is over priced for how fragile it is.
3. Wraith constructs everywhere - this seems to be the focus of the release, understandably to sell more models but I've always been non-plussed by them. The wraith knight seems like a missed opportunity, no doubt it will sell well but it doesn't do much for its points.

It's not all negative as I like the blade storm rule (ap2 small arms what's not to like!) but even that is soured by the ranges staying the same. Jetbikes are arguably the best scoring units in the game if they weren't before and the much maligned swooping hawks actually seem to be reasonably decent. Also the Vaul's wrath platforms look cost effective and dangerous barrage weapons, along with Serpents kicking out decent firepower too.

I hoped a 2+ fortuned bike council with attached Tau super commander would be viable but if you don't roll up some key powers its likely to be game over before its even begun.

I just had such hig hopes, probably raised my expectations too high after the awesome Tau book. So much of the Eldar powers and gear are very situational, expensive and on non-durable platforms, I know we're specialists and everything needs to work in concert but I fail to see how we won't get smashed off the table by other 6th ed armies.

Heres hoping the mini codi help to elevate the Eldar from mediocrity.

MOTHER OF THE EMPRAH.

Quite possibly one of the most amusing things ever, lol