Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Crimson wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:

it says you can upgrade the Twin Linked Shuriken Cannon, not any shuriken cannon. If you upgrade the TL shuriken catapult to a shuriken cannon it is not twin linked.

Falcon, not Wave Serpent. Falcon has upgrades for non-TL Shuriken Cannon.

True, and I see what you're trying to say. Sounds like either a poorly worded lapse (which we know they're prone to), or we could have PL/BL/SL Falcons....

But I'll let YMDC decide that wording out.

 Gangrel767 wrote:

Chrysis wrote:

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

They already have Slow and Purposeful, what does Relentless offer over that? (I genuinely can't remember!)

It will allow them to run, and also to assault after shooting.

It won't do either of these things, because they are already Slow and Purposeful. Making them Relentless as well won't remove the S&P prohibition on running, and being S&P they can already assault after firing heavy weapons. Gifting Relentless to a Slow and Purposeful model does absolutely nothing.

Plus relentless does not confer to the unit.

Another excellent point for this case.

But S&P does. So a relentless model in a unit with even 1 S&P model suddenly loses the ability to run or Overwatch.

Would guardians be t5 3+ save because of the platform or am I wrong on the artillery rules? If so would they be good manning a quad gun with warlock for a better cover save?

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
, I'm making Eldar allies just to bring him. Because YES.

Sounds like a lot of points for Heldrake food.

i'd be more worried about Riptides.

Big tournament here over the weekend and my friend played 3 tau players out of 3 games with a grand total of 7 riptides.

Uzumati wrote:
Would guardians be t5 3+ save because of the platform or am I wrong on the artillery rules? If so would they be good manning a quad gun with warlock for a better cover save?

In a Vaul's Wrath Battery, yes. In a Guardian Defenders Squad, No, because their weapon platform doesn't use the Artillery rules.

Just a little food for thought. WW with SL and SC scores the same number of hits in a round as 2x SL due to the twin linkage. Ranges don't match up as nicely, but something to think about especially if your army plans to have your WW a little more forward (maybe to support a WG/Avatar line or some such.

The shadowseer / Maugan Ra combo is back?

The invisible cannon that you can't target?

That moves too quick to run down?

Groovy

Puscifer wrote:
Big Question....

How good is Wraithseer with this Codex?

I think you're going to be harder pressed to fit it in as easily, unless you're only running it in support of one wraith unit. Then, it's a pricey synergy unit if you're taking the D-cannon at 225 points. That said, T6 Axe Wraithblades with T6, 3+/4++ and a 4+ FNP are going to be very tough to remove. Instead of using Deliverance, keep an Embolden/Horrify warlock nearby and force Pinning tests at -5 Ld with Foreboding. In a dedicated wraith list, I think you'll see a Spiritseer to make them Troops and either a Phoenix Lord, Farseer, or Eldrad.

Unfortunately, all the point values for IA11 reflect the 4th edition rules and so will be at a premium. I've been running corsair allies alongside my wraith list for the last 8 months and now I'm looking at completely rearranging that setup. Taking a Corsair Prince allowed a squad of wraithguard to deepstrike and now that can be more reliably done with Illic's Infiltration ability. While they lose the former spiritseer's Conceal for a 5+ cover save, they gain Shrouded from Illic. With the Crimson Hunter available, Nightwings have lost some of their appeal other than their 145 price tag for 2 S8 lances and 6 S6 Shuricannons. Mine has served me well, but I might be taking the cannons off and slapping a Pulse Laser to the undercarriage to count-as a Hunter.

Until FW gets around to an errata for IA11 to reflect the codex updates, I'm going to be wary of combining the two.

Anyone thought of using Illic with a battery of D-Cannons?

He could infiltrate them forward so that they establish board control early in the game and, with his split fire special rule, could engage multiple targets at once - or he could support other forces across the board with his sniper rifle while the battery bombards nearby targets.

 warpspider89 wrote:
Anyone thought of using Illic with a battery of D-Cannons?

He could infiltrate them forward so that they establish board control early in the game and, with his split fire special rule, could engage multiple targets at once - or he could support other forces across the board with his sniper rifle while the battery bombards nearby targets.

I have, but after going over Illic's ability it has been assumed that the power works for illic alone.

Speaking of Illic, what are people's general thoughts on him?

For me, despite all the cool rules, I'm not convinced he's actually that good. Sharpshot is pretty awesome, as is the ability to upgrade Rangers to Pathfinders, but I find having to buy Illic for 140 points first is undesirable. Illic's rifle is still only a sniper, so it's wounding on a 4+. Not bad, but not great either. Also, I feel the "Infiltrate anywhere" Special Rule, isn't that good. It would be awesome, but Illic, and any Rangers/Pathfinders that accompany him, are firing 36" (48" in Illic's case) Heavy Weapons. They're also pretty bad in combat. They don't want to be close to the enemy.

Also, this new book has got me confused about Precision Shots. I don't have my rulebook on my and won't until Friday. Can someone explain how it works and what weapons it applies to? After playing Orks for all of 6th Edition, I think you can safely say I haven't used it much.

I am looking at adding the following to my eldar army:

Spirit seer

Autarch on jetbike

10-20 Wraithguard/Blades (do I need Wraithblades? I was thinking 10 Guard with cannons, 5 with scythes and 5 Blades with axes/forceshields)

Wraithknight or 2nd Wraithlord (probably the Lord)

1-2 Crimson Hunters

5 more Dark Reapers

6 Swooping Hawks

12 Striking Scorpions

 shamikebab wrote:

 evildrspock wrote:

One thing I was just thinking of is taking a unit of 3 Vypers, one with a Scatterlaser, the rest with Shuriken Cannons, and all underslung Shuriken Cannons (war walkers can do this too, but I prefer Vypers because of Jink). Against any normal target, you are very likely to get one Scatterlaser hit, then ... 15 TL bs4 s6 shots with Bladestorm. There are lots of fun ways to approach anti-infantry or anti-tank. Laser lock is such a cool rule.

No! Laser lock is for the model not the unit, only the one with the Scatter Laser would get twin linked.

Right. So you can field the combo scatter laser and shuricannon on single models, like Vypers, Warwalkers, Serpents, and Falcons. But make sure to get into range. This is easier with the grave tanks than with the Warwalkers.

 rohansoldier wrote:
I am looking at adding the following to my eldar army:
Spirit seer
Autarch on jetbike
10-20 Wraithguard/Blades (do I need Wraithblades? I was thinking 10 Guard with cannons, 5 with scythes and 5 Blades with axes/forceshields)
Wraithknight or 2nd Wraithlord (probably the Lord)
1-2 Crimson Hunters
5 more Dark Reapers
6 Swooping Hawks
12 Striking Scorpions

I'm not sure on wraithblades yet - they look awesome and I want to paint 5 in fire dragon colours (with axes) as a bodyguard for Fuegan - but they need to footslog to be effective, as we still have the same melee problems as before (no assault transports).

I'm thinking d-scythes - out of a wave serpent, will be lethal. Put 5 templates down, then try to invite a charge.
Wraithblades are cool - I'd just buy them last

Overwatch seems overrated. Don't people send in mooks first to suck it up before charging with whatever will eat the Wraithguard in close combat?

I only seem to play against marines - they don't have meatshields round our way

Marines shouldn't ever charge them IMO. Unless they're termies with th/ss. And even then, only maybe...

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Overwatch seems overrated. Don't people send in mooks first to suck it up before charging with whatever will eat the Wraithguard in close combat?

Only if they have mooks available. Some armies do not have expendable soldiers.

I am thinking 10 Wraithblades with axes and forceshields plus a spirit seer is one hell of an objective holder. Just plonk them on it and dare your enemy to try and take it off you. Especially if you get conceal and protect on the seer!

3+ cover save + 2+ armour + 4+ invulnerable + T6 + Fearless = one unit that is going nowhere!

How many wounds each? 1 or 2?

Only one wound each.

I'd either keep a farseer near and try for fortune or you can add a Wraithseer and it gets better - 4+ fnp, and at T6 even st10 weapons can't take fnp off you

Am I the only person giddy with excitement at the thought of playing a 2500 point game for Eldar with two force orgs to make use of those amazing Fast Attack and Heavy slots? LoL

FA and Heavy are so hard to choose, you almost have to make your choices there first and then build a list around it for complimenting abilities.

 The Shadow wrote:
Speaking of Illic, what are people's general thoughts on him?

For me, despite all the cool rules, I'm not convinced he's actually that good. Sharpshot is pretty awesome, as is the ability to upgrade Rangers to Pathfinders, but I find having to buy Illic for 140 points first is undesirable. Illic's rifle is still only a sniper, so it's wounding on a 4+. Not bad, but not great either. Also, I feel the "Infiltrate anywhere" Special Rule, isn't that good. It would be awesome, but Illic, and any Rangers/Pathfinders that accompany him, are firing 36" (48" in Illic's case) Heavy Weapons. They're also pretty bad in combat. They don't want to be close to the enemy.

Also, this new book has got me confused about Precision Shots. I don't have my rulebook on my and won't until Friday. Can someone explain how it works and what weapons it applies to? After playing Orks for all of 6th Edition, I think you can safely say I haven't used it much.

As far as I can tell, Illic is garbage. Because of how Infiltrate and the deployment are worded he can't bring along a squad that doesn't have Infiltrate. The wording of his "deploy anywhere" rule suggests it only applies to him, not an attached squad, so no sneaking Scorpions closer to the front, and you obviously don't want him close up. His sniper may be AP2 and Distort, but it's still only wounding half the time. It seems like anything you want him to do could be better done by the same points worth of Rangers. Definitely regretting that purchase.

 rohansoldier wrote:
I am thinking 10 Wraithblades with axes and forceshields plus a spirit seer is one hell of an objective holder. Just plonk them on it and dare your enemy to try and take it off you. Especially if you get conceal and protect on the seer!

3+ cover save + 2+ armour + 4+ invulnerable + T6 + Fearless = one unit that is going nowhere!

That or make them Wraithguard with D-scythes. Sure you lose the Invuln, but just DARE somebody to assault you.

 The Shadow wrote:
Speaking of Illic, what are people's general thoughts on him?
For me, despite all the cool rules, I'm not convinced he's actually that good. Sharpshot is pretty awesome, as is the ability to upgrade Rangers to Pathfinders, but I find having to buy Illic for 140 points first is undesirable. Illic's rifle is still only a sniper, so it's wounding on a 4+. Not bad, but not great either. Also, I feel the "Infiltrate anywhere" Special Rule, isn't that good. It would be awesome, but Illic, and any Rangers/Pathfinders that accompany him, are firing 36" (48" in Illic's case) Heavy Weapons. They're also pretty bad in combat. They don't want to be close to the enemy.

Not just Illic, but the Alaitoc Pathfinders are horrifically expensive too. And while they're much more resilient to normal fire, anything that ignores cover will absolutely ruin their day.
They are useful for one thing - to pick out units behind a single tough model in the front. Things like TDA Wolf Guard in Grey Hunters, Draigo with his extra wounds to spare, Corbulo with... er... anything. Having every single shot become Precision allows you to completely bypass these models without having Look Out Sir! interrupt you.

Also, this new book has got me confused about Precision Shots. I don't have my rulebook on my and won't until Friday. Can someone explain how it works and what weapons it applies to? After playing Orks for all of 6th Edition, I think you can safely say I haven't used it much.

Without quoting the whole thing verbatim, after all, this isn't a replacement for a rulebook... on a 6 you get to allocate your shots to who you want. Typically only snipers and characters get it.

 MandalorynOranj wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
Speaking of Illic, what are people's general thoughts on him?

For me, despite all the cool rules, I'm not convinced he's actually that good. Sharpshot is pretty awesome, as is the ability to upgrade Rangers to Pathfinders, but I find having to buy Illic for 140 points first is undesirable. Illic's rifle is still only a sniper, so it's wounding on a 4+. Not bad, but not great either. Also, I feel the "Infiltrate anywhere" Special Rule, isn't that good. It would be awesome, but Illic, and any Rangers/Pathfinders that accompany him, are firing 36" (48" in Illic's case) Heavy Weapons. They're also pretty bad in combat. They don't want to be close to the enemy.

Also, this new book has got me confused about Precision Shots. I don't have my rulebook on my and won't until Friday. Can someone explain how it works and what weapons it applies to? After playing Orks for all of 6th Edition, I think you can safely say I haven't used it much.

As far as I can tell, Illic is garbage. Because of how Infiltrate and the deployment are worded he can't bring along a squad that doesn't have Infiltrate. The wording of his "deploy anywhere" rule suggests it only applies to him, not an attached squad, so no sneaking Scorpions closer to the front, and you obviously don't want him close up. His sniper may be AP2 and Distort, but it's still only wounding half the time. It seems like anything you want him to do could be better done by the same points worth of Rangers. Definitely regretting that purchase.

I completely agree. He'd be better if they gave him some sort of value for those 140 points, but they came up short. Aside from a FAQ to the already gimicky feel of the Infiltrate ability, giving him something like 'Fast Shot' or a Heavy 2-3 sniper rifle would have been much more flavorful.

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:

 MandalorynOranj wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
Speaking of Illic, what are people's general thoughts on him?

For me, despite all the cool rules, I'm not convinced he's actually that good. Sharpshot is pretty awesome, as is the ability to upgrade Rangers to Pathfinders, but I find having to buy Illic for 140 points first is undesirable. Illic's rifle is still only a sniper, so it's wounding on a 4+. Not bad, but not great either. Also, I feel the "Infiltrate anywhere" Special Rule, isn't that good. It would be awesome, but Illic, and any Rangers/Pathfinders that accompany him, are firing 36" (48" in Illic's case) Heavy Weapons. They're also pretty bad in combat. They don't want to be close to the enemy.

Also, this new book has got me confused about Precision Shots. I don't have my rulebook on my and won't until Friday. Can someone explain how it works and what weapons it applies to? After playing Orks for all of 6th Edition, I think you can safely say I haven't used it much.

As far as I can tell, Illic is garbage. Because of how Infiltrate and the deployment are worded he can't bring along a squad that doesn't have Infiltrate. The wording of his "deploy anywhere" rule suggests it only applies to him, not an attached squad, so no sneaking Scorpions closer to the front, and you obviously don't want him close up. His sniper may be AP2 and Distort, but it's still only wounding half the time. It seems like anything you want him to do could be better done by the same points worth of Rangers. Definitely regretting that purchase.

I completely agree. He'd be better if they gave him some sort of value for those 140 points, but they came up short. Aside from a FAQ to the already gimicky feel of the Infiltrate ability, giving him something like 'Fast Shot' or a Heavy 2-3 sniper rifle would have been much more flavorful.

Or a rule like the Vindicaire where he doesn't allow Look Out, Sir!

Just some initial thoughts after playing a few test games with and against the new elder....

wave serpeants are the bomb. Horribly hard to kill with that convert pens into glances and 4+ cover in the open

Eldar farseers are really useful for buffs. Been liking a lot of the offensive powers. Execution for example took down quite a lot of guardsmen as well as threaten special characters that are squishy (i.e. IG special weapons/characters due to horrible saves) With laser lock, a lot of stuff does not need guide. A mechdar force is pretty tough and fairly self sufficient.

The wraith knight really has been kind of lacking. Even the shooting version has been less than impressed with especially when most people just has been ignoring it.

Ignore cover really kind of suck to fight against as elder.

Warwalkers are still really nice since you can battlefocus with fleet to get out of return fire and they have some pretty mean guns.

Avatar seems ok on paper but was kind of lacking on the board again. I'd rather take farseer warlocks.

The crimson hunter was pretty good with vector dancer and fragged some AV14 pretty easily but was glanced to death as kind of expected.

Waiting to try some more games vs and with dark reapers/warp spiders/swooping hawks to try.

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:

That or make them Wraithguard with D-scythes. Sure you lose the Invuln, but just DARE somebody to assault you.

Oh no, I'll lose 5 Termagants, Boyz, or Daemonettes charging in. In exchange, your unit is effectively dead.

10 D.Scythes give 20 hits from overwatch on average....