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Hey,

After my first victory (I'm a beginner) with my orks (yay!) against eldar at 500pts my friend wanted revenge using his necron and upping the points to 1000pts.

I went with lots of footslogging boyz vs eldar and it worked well but he said he will just take long range 72" doomsday cannon s10 ap1 with large blast and target my lootas and boyz squads so that I'm not able to get into melee or do ranged damage.

This has made me think about my strategy as I will struggle to get to his 72" cannon especially if we are on a long table rather than short and if I do get to it I will only have rokkits against av14 which isn't promising and i have a lot less range than him.

My thinking was to get close fast with no foot slogging to throw my pals tactics off and max my chances of a win.

I came up with this list

Big Mek (95pts)
Cybork body,
Kustom force field

5 Lootas (75pts)

10x Shoota Boyz (121pts)
1x Nob, BP & Big Choppa
Trukk

11x Shoota Boyz (127pts)
1x Nob, BP & Big Choppa
Trukk

11x Shoota Boyz (127pts)
1x Nob, BP & Big Choppa
Trukk

11x Shoota Boyz (127pts)
Nob, BP & Big Choppa
Trukk

Deffkopta (60pts)
Twin-linked rokkit launcha
Big Bomm

6x Warbiker (215pts)
1x Warbiker Nob

Big Gunz kannon (46pts)
2x Ammo Runt

With this list I intend on bombing bikes and trukks forward to get as many boyz up the table as I can as quickly as possible whilst hopefully keeping out of line of site of his 72" cannons and the get into melee turn two hopefully.

Kannons will pepper anything he brings forwards like command barge along with my lootas.

Deffkopta is taken as a suicide unit to drop a big bomm onto his scarabs to help save my trukks (a bit)

I know he will most likely use the following

Any thing with large blast and range to take out my lootas and boyz and...

His list will most likely include

Obryon
Zandrek/lord
Annihilation or command barge
Scarabs
20 warriors
5-10 immortals
3 heavy destroyers
Maybe wraiths and lychguard proxys
Doomsday ark

Can you guys give me some tips on my list and any lists you have used against necron that have been successful?

The only other thing I can thing is to go more bikes and loose everything else but I will have to proxy.

I'm just concerned I don't have the range to take out his big hitting long range units any tips on how to deal with them?

Finger crossed for night fighting!!!

Thanks v much

Perhaps a FW big trakk supa kannon would even the range game? Anyone had any luck with these?

Take away the stationary units and replace them with nob bikers so you can get into cc quickly and destroy every thing

he will just take long range 72" doomsday cannon s10 ap1 with large blast

Welcome to 40k mate. Also, note that it's S9, which means no ID for a Warboss or Nob Biker.

Don't rely on LoS Blocking terrain to stop that gun, because unless your playing with way more terrain than most (which you should), simply put every point on the board is gonna be visible to 90% of the rest of the board. If at all possible though, get as much of that stuff on the board as you can because its a real game changer (for the better).. Insist on it, put it there and tell him to "make you" take it off, because in my experience the type of player who takes this is often the type who will try to give themselves the advantage with whats pretty much a blank space for a table. Take full advantage of the proper terrain placement rules, with the "you place one I place one" rule and try your best to stagger several big pieces of terrain across the board or at least, something to give you a puny 5+ cover save.

Perhaps a FW big trakk supa kannon would even the range game? Anyone had any luck with these?

I've used them in large numbers against Space Marine Mech. They're damn good against MEQ troops, but not a great weapon against armour. That said, the main weakness of the Doomsday Cannon is it's AV 11 firing platform. My codex is listing them as skimmers, though they may be fliers? If they are skimmers, this vehicle isn't a half bad choice against them. Nearly the same range with a S9 large blast with no penetrating hit bonus, it's definitely in with a shot. I'd highly recommend you get the ard case and possibly even armour plates if your going to try and duel it out with this thing. If nothing else, the Supa Kannon will draw fire while your trukk boyz zoom up the field. OP, if you don't know what a Supa Kannon is, send me a PM and I'll link you to some free resources published legally by GW that can give you an idea.

Another FW counter to this sorta thing are Grott Bomm Launchas. 35 points for a squadronable single shot S8 AP3 large blast barrage weapon with a re-rollable hit dice at range 24-72. Very likely to hit, and then it's gonna glance on a 3 and pen on a 4. If all it does is pen and stun, it's easily, easily made up it's points, and a squadron can fire one at a time up to the three per FA slot until you get your stun (at which point you stop shooting, and try to stun/kill it next turn) I use them to counter Manticores, IG artillery, and stuff like that, and they're bloody good at it. It can be very easily proxied in with an Ork wartrak or even just a deffkopta off of it's flying base (another thing to insist on ~ proxies and counts-as should be 100% fine amongst friends, especially this early in the hobby)

Lootas in good cover will beat the tar out of this thing on a standard table, but on a long table their shorter range means they won't be any use at all. You could consider taking a battlewagon in your list, and loading it with boys on a normal table and Lootas on a long table. But generally speaking, I'd advise against battlewagons in any role where they will be encountering S10.

Dakkajets are another good counter here. Flyboss makes them AP3 against skimmers and fliers I believe and that cannon can't do jack to them.

Zagstruk Stormboyz are another good choice ~ minimum sized suicide squad, deep strike near it and then smash it with a PK. Alternatively, a standard min sized stormboy unit can duck from cover to cover and then bash it, but its gonna take a few turns to get there. Outflanking shooty units like deffkoptas are also great. A solo or small squad can zoom onto the table and fire rokkits at it for a c.1/3 chance of a pen and 1/6 of a glance per kopta firing. Put them *right* next to the ark so ideally nothing else can see it, meaning the Ark will have to move (bye bye long range shot) or shoot the kopta itself (bye bye one turn of shooting, hello chance of hitting yourself!). Again, a Dread Mob Kopta has an advantage because it can buy the buzzsaw for just ten points. If you don't get it the turn you come on, you'll have a damn good chance of getting it the next turn.

Finally, SAG Mek's are a worthwhile option to consider. Range 60", average strength 7 with a +1 on the pen hits table, ordinance for AP re-rolls, large blast for some of the most accurate shooting we get, and most of their doubles results won't be half bad here. You can take three if you ally in the Dread Mob. However, they will be ID if they are hit by the attack

If you want to be real cheeky, proxy in Imotek the stormlord in an allied detachment, and get a 4+ seize the INT roll and auto nightfighting, plus that lightning effect which could get a lucky hit on their doomsday ark (note: it also hits your own units). You could even just get a doomsday ark of your own if you really wanted. Watch your friend cry tears of butthurt rage when he too takes Imotek but finds he cannot seize the INT against Orks.

Hope that helps man.

So all nob bikers throughout? Or just in place of lootaz and kannons which are my only real stationary units.

I will have a look at biker nobs as I haven't used them before being a beginner although I've heard they wreck face.

Suppose bikers can pop vehicles from the rear with speed.

Cheers food for thought

Looking at your opponents list all I can say is beware the annihilation barge! That thing will be a massive problem with the arc rule hitting extra untis. Also don't count on furious charge because Zahndrekh nullifies rules if he takes it. That said, Nob bikes are an excellent choice if you can spare the points for a Painboy for FNP and a 5++ inv. save for an extra 5pts.
Heavy Destroyers and Scarabs will murder anything resembling a tank so your trukks will be dead pretty fast, but as mentioned if you can silence the Doomsday Ark your footsloggers should be ok

That post was for the comment above dakkamite I've read your post but I will have to reply properly later as I'm off out!

Thanks for the tips though its really helpful.

One thing we do suffer from is lack of terrain so I will bring as many bits as I can find maybe grab a few rocks out the garden too

Great stuff thanks speak later

Cheers also mitra!

Take big stacks of books as ruined buildings. Easiest terrain in the world.

Don't get into the bad habit of playing on a blank board. It'll push you further and further towards a Gunline strategy until eventually nothing in your army will have to move at all by which point your not actually 'playing' anything, your just rolling dice.

I agree with Dakkamite on this, in all honesty I've never played on a board with terrain and it does get you shot up to feth. But it is feasible to do, altough I've only really run Speed Freaks and Crons so it gets mitigated to a degree.

Anyway to repeat Dakkamite if you don't have terrain proxy it, you'll get the precious cover save and the board looks a lot less bland.

What scares me is that neither of my last two opponents put any area terrain on the board and I had to ask them to do it. In my game today for example, even after the other guy chucked some area cover on, I didn't have a single inch of the stuff on my side of the board.

The game just seems to shift further and further towards "make a big gunline, roll first turn" and thats not a shift that I approve of. On the plus side though, it'll soon be easy as hell to have proxy games online since you won't actually have to move anything

Never let that happen! Otherwise Nids and Orks may as well go home. So make a specific point of starting with terrain before you've even began to deploy, that way your opponent will join in for fear of being compromised.

Your army is great just make sure your Orks hit the necrons hard in assault as he will gat reanimation on a 4+ and even if he doesn't have a lord with reanimation orb he will still get reanimation on a 6+

Is a foot slog with many boys viable against necron if I can disable the 72" cannon? Or is fast attack the way to smash him hard and fast?

Yeah I hate those pesky reanimation protocols!

Footsloggin and loota backup tend to work with me, else Battlewagon rush ^^ Can fitt 3 battlewagons w/ deffrollas filled with boyz in a 1k game.

Don't have any battlewagons so footsloggin maybe the way with some fast attack and large templates with a suicide squad of stormboyz to pop his av14 and large blast templates maybe a looted wagon or big trakk supa kannon and or grot bombs.

Either that or many bikes!

Could I bring wazdakka in with a minimal squad of kommandos and snikrot to pop tanks? Minimum turn two I suppose I won't save me boyz from the large blast template

Cheers for the tips all

Kommandos dont work as intended(prev eddition) They lost their spark when they couldnt assault after appearing from Reserver :/ as for the bikes i dont see wazzdakka worth it at 1k p i'd rather take a warboss on bike and a few nob bikers. then trukk rush the rest for the points.

RP is 5+ normal so it's even trickier to keep the crons down particularly if there's a resurrection orb around for 4+. The Ark is TOUGH, 4 HP and AV 13 is annoying as anything, so disabling it before your boyz are dust is.... Difficult to say the least.Snikrot got a huge nerf this edition now that he can't assault from reserve, so if you want a suicide squad Zagstruk would be better.
Wazdakka Gutsmek.... Oh the fun you can have with him. He has a nasty gun that will shred cron warriors and a PK to boot. But he's expensive and has no inv. save, so avoid warscythes at all costs.

I play orks too and my favorite thing to use against long range, especially scatter ordinance, is a bunch of truks with at at least one nob and a power claw. then you put them as far apart as possible and rush them. Once you get close enough the wont be able to use the ordinance, in case it scatters on themselves. that with abunch of basic cheap death koppas with rokkit launchas. and ground troops to follow and they wont get to much of a chance to hit u.

Mmmm so many choices ill let you know when I have narrowed my list down as currently I have so many ideas and you gta have given me so great advice to go on.

Stormboyz and deffkoptas sound viable with trukks.

Wazdakka sounds awesome but his saves let him down - maybe he could daisy chain with deffkoptas for safe escort?

Just throwing some ideas out there thanks for the help.

Ill do some rosters and see how the points add up

Keep the advice coming as I'm always learning being a beginner


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah I kept saying that necron get av14 its 13 sorry my bad

Well what i like about wazzdakka is this.

1) when first using him maximize the use of warbikers as troops! (expensive money wise but fun)

2) He can still use his bigASS dakkacannon even when flat outing.

3) he can repair battlewagons / trukks for luls.


Stormboyz with bosszagstruk one of the things that worked for me when playing against gunline armies. Deepstrike and loose D3 stormboyz,luckily iv'e only lost one each game so far Then charging the same turn with a I3 powerklaw? I LUV IT! Helped me mostly against Tau and IG, I'm sure it will be as effective against necrons. A suitable size for them is 10-15 stormboyz as we are only talking about 1k.

Deffkoptas Outflanking 1 and 1 unless you have more than one group of 3 that is. Both TL rokkits and the TL big shootas have prooven well to me. The big shootas have bigger chanse at glancing back armor of 10 due the amount of hits but then again the rokkits when they first hit they mostly pen it


As for armor 13, lootas they still take it no matter how many shots you put into it you are darnd better get some green sixes!

Damn, I had no idea Waz could boost and shoot. Figures he can't boost and assault as well, fuckin GW. Still wouldn't take him unless your also running a Biker army (which is awesome but I'm not certain how 'good' it is)

Lootas average a glance per 18 shots on AV 13. That may seem like jack all, but 15 Lootas firing three shots is gonna half kill it.

BS Deffkoptas > Rokkits for anti armour 10 and anti light troops, but rokkits for 11+ and for 4+ or better. In this case, go rokkits or go home. Take them in solos as Phatonic said, outflank them and put them *right* in front of the doomsday cannon. Since LoS is measured from the gun you might be able to block it entirely! This all depends on the height of the two models. If you can't block it entirely, you can still block huge swaths of the field by moving back a bit. Just remember that since they can individually target and resolve shooting from their units (unlike assault, which is all at once and far more realistic and tactical) they could shoot it down and then their cannon has a free hand.

10-15 Stormboys are just going to be 9-14 more casualties if the attack on the Doomsday ark fails (and therefore making his previously wasted shot a damn good deal) and will also probably just eat bullets and die if you do kill it, or die in the explosion, or mishap more easily because the unit is so big... all in exchange for exactly 0% boost to Doomsday ark killing ability.Yeah, I strongly recommend against it, the best thing thats gonna happen is your going to lose a 200-250 point unit to kill one thats like 180 points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, as Phatonic said Warboss on a Bike could be great here. Start most of your army (not the boss) in reserve to escape that pie plate and with a tough unit (conga line of grots in cover?) to keep you in the game until they arrive> Turbo him up the board and he'll hit it with like 2-3 attacks that practically auto pen and which get +1 on the damage table. If he kills that thing and then goes down in a hail of gunfire he's done his job. If he fails then it's unlikely to kill him with its side batteries and cannot use its cannon without moving, though since it's hovering off the ground he might just get shot out by other 'crons

Starting at 12" away from your table edge, he can reliably be in position to assault turn two. And as just one model he can easily be hidden on any but the barest, most soulless maps. Alternatively, outflank him with a single deffkopta and hope for the right board edge.

Once again some great tips dakka I will attempt to make a roster based on all the advice above.

The stormboyz sound like a plan IF they work but I'd rather not rely on deepstrike as if it fails its ruined my plans and that cannon is still blasting away.

Koptaz seem to be the answer with their speed and rokkits and wazdakka sounds like a plan. And I have plenty of them.

Like the plan of keeping things in reserve a nice tactic to save things being nuked turn one. So if he get to go first ill reserve my boyz and if he goes second ill get my trukks, bukes and koptaz bombing forward unless I outflank of course - or would you still keep some in reserve?

Thanks for the great tactics and advice really helpful

If he is going second, reserve trukks if a) he has some super INT seizing bastard in his list or b) the sole purpose of the unit is to hold a homefield objective or something. Otherwise go all out.

The koptas probably aren't gonna cut it, but they are the easiest if not the most reliable, way to threaten that cannon, so give them a go.

Crons have no way of boosting initiative seize against Orks (Imotekh is the only one who can but not against the greenies). I'm in agreement with Phatonic, boss on bike is better than wazdakka itc and cheaper, plus can have a 5++ invulnerable. I'd chance the koptas because they're a safer (if you can call BS2 shooting safe) bet than stormboyz and if they get a second go buzzsaws are basically PKs. But as well as the ark almost every necron infantry gun is gauss and AP5 so trukks are at risk, reserve rush is good here. Although any units deployed (boyz particularly) will die as easily as to an MEQ.

Thanks again I have a list to post taking into account your comments I will post on my lunch break

Ta


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Right here it goes with my altered list - basically I’ve ditched the warbikes although I’m not sure if that was a good move or not but there is room to adjust this list as I’m not playing till the weekend.

Please give constructive criticism as you have above guys it’s a great help for a beginner.

Big Mek (113pts)
'Eavy armour
Ammo runt
Cybork body
Shokk attack gun

Lootas (165pts)
11x Loota

10x Gretchin (30pts) Runtherd (10pts)

Ork Boyz (132pts)
11x Shoota Boyz
Nob - Big choppa, Bosspole
Trukk - Big shoota, Red paint job

Ork Boyz (132pts)
11x Shoota Boyz
Nob - Big choppa, Bosspole
Trukk - Big shoota, Red paint job

Ork Boyz (147pts)
11x Boy
Nob - Bosspole, Power klaw
Trukk- Big shoota,

Deffkoptas (60pts) - Bigbomm, Twin-linked rokkit launcha

Deffkoptas (45pts) - Twin-linked rokkit launcha

Deffkoptas (45pts) - Twin-linked rokkit launcha

Supa Kannon Half Trakk (FW) (120pts)
Supakannon

Mek and Supa Kannon to sit at the back with Lootaz raining fire from cover where possible and going to ground when those templates come over head.
Using their large templates to counter the templates of my enemy (and because I’m looking forward to using large temps for the first time!)

Shoota boyz bombing forward in trukks maybe from reserves to save their bacon if I don’t get first turn.
With two big choppa trukks protecting the powerclaw trukk to get into melee asap. With red paint job using my left over points to gain that extra inch.

Is 36 boys enough that is my only concern... doesn’t seem it for 1000 points. But i want to try to avoid footslogging unless we roll short table width as hes bring the large blast template im sure of it!

2x Koptas are for taking down the enemies AV13 backline and the third is for dropping a big bomb on to the scarabs which I know will be coming.
Not sure if to bring one maybe two in from reserves though to try and ensure that rear hit but risking missing a turn or two?

Grots are for surrounding the SAG Mek & Lootas to prevent any deep striking units nuking them – OBRYON!!!!

My friend and I have just rolled to play the single objective each scenario (5 – can’t remember the name) so we have a bit of time to construct a relevant list (as we are beginners - I know it’s not normal but we have limited knowledge and models). Imagine he will just deepstrike Obryon on the last turn to contest and prevent me from scoring though :S

This may change my list a bit but I think that the grots could hold the objective and hopefully cover the long range support at the same time? Maybe wishful thinking.

Please feel free to criticise my list and thoughts

Thanks

Couple of things as a Cron player.

a) The Doomsday Ark is a skimmer, but isn't fast. Also, it has two firing modes and has to sit still to shoot the large blast thing.

b) There is no way I would take a Doomsday ark at 1000 pts. It is a lot of points which would be better spent on Annihilation barges.

If I was tailoring a list against a horde, I would load up on Annihilation barges, put my troops in flyers, take Zandhrek (who gets to remove a USR from one of your units (Furious charge, hit and run, plus give one to one of mine) plus scarabs (because Scarabs with FC are nasty).

So, before you finish tailoring , let us know what models he has access too.

Obryon
Zandrek/lord
Annihilation or command barge
Scarabs
20 warriors
5-10 immortals
3 heavy destroyers
Maybe wraiths and lychguard proxys
Doomsday ark
Unfortunately any other proxys too :s

This is pretty much what he owns or has talked about proxying in the past though.

After a defeat against my foot slogging orks vs his eldar at 500 points I think he will go for blast templates as I swamped him with boys in that game so it would be good to come with something to surprise him

Cheers


Automatically Appended Next Post:
He maybe just proxy a couple of annihilation barges though I can't be sure but I'm sure he will use that 72" cannon if he can afford it although I maybe putting my eggs is one basket assuming that???? Only time will tell!

Ok, with that list of models, I definitely wouldn't take the doomsday (which is the blast template).

I would proxy Annihiliation barges for the tesla destructor cannons and I would take the scarabs to screen plus immortal and warriors.

I'd use the Doomsday as a ghost ark to regenerate a blob of warriors and definitely would take Zandhrek.

So, you may be up against a load of Tesla, which gives 2 additional hits for every '6' rolled plus there is an arc which might hit any unit within 6" (need to roll for this).

The Necron vehicles are AV 13 front and sides until they get penetrated - then they drop back to 11.

Wraiths would also be good here, but fall to volume of fire attacks (note they are S6 but T4).

If he doesn't have any flyers, note that most of the weaponry is only 24", so make sure you have longer range than that (if you can - sorry I know zip about orks) so that he has to come to you. Focus on getting rid of Anni Barges / wraiths first.

hth


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and watch out for Trazyn. He's pretty expensive, so may not appear, but his Empathic obliterator attack will hurt, badly.

Cheers for that Mcron interesting to see what tips are given from the other side of the fence

I think he will take a long range kannon for fun if nothing else ( as we are both beginners who haven't yet used large templates and flyers!) if he can afford it due to his last experience with orks.

I will concentrate on destroying barges or cannons of any kind before I worry about anything else whilst shooting the wraiths with boys where possible. Saving a big Bomm for the scarabs which he will probably send after my vehicles.

Cheers for you tips and info ill see if I can use them to my advantage unless of course my friend reads this post then I'm screwed!

Can trukks turbo boost and then boyz shoot? I assume not but thought I'd ask incase I'm missing a trick.

Thanks


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dakkamite wrote:


The koptas probably aren't gonna cut it, but they are the easiest if not the most reliable, way to threaten that cannon, so give them a go.

What is a more reliable method out of interest as I'm willing to try anything?!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmmm reading those posts above again I'm tempted with an ork boss biker list too now crikey so many awesome models to try out! I'm liking the sound if the hiding and blasting up the table in turn two!

That's a great second list neo, I don't use FW stuff but it looks pretty nasty. MarkCron is right about Trazyn he is a scoring unit and his cc weapon would be a nightmare for you. Personally I wouldn't split the koptas like that in kill point missions your opponent will have fun killing them for easy points.
As already mentioned beware of tesla!!! The AB and immortal will give your army nightmares.