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My FLGS is throwing a 600 point tournament in early August so I'm thinking that's as good an excuse as any to jump start my creation of a new army (well possibly armies as I'm thinking about trying to model some of my new choices to work as crossovers).

I just checked in and the details of the tournament are still in flux (meaning that the owners haven't decided on 'em yet) but for now, I'm assuming standard force org requirements and no special characters.

As I said, I don't have any models yet, so I have a fair amount of flexibility for modifications to the list, and all feedback is welcome.

HQ -- 165 -- Librarian
TDA, Nemesis Force Sword
Storm Bolter, 2x Servo Skulls
Codex Psychic Power (Summoning)

Troop -- 120 -- Strike Squad
Psycannon
Nemesis Hammer & SB
3x Force Sword & SB (including Justicar)

Troop -- 165 -- Strike Squad
Justicar with SB & Falchions
Incinerator
Hammer & SB
Halberd & SB
Sword & SB x2

Heavy -- 145 -- Dreadnought
Assault Cannon
DCCW w/ Heavy Flamer
Psybolt Ammo
Warp Stabilization Field

The general plan is to start with the Psycannon SS and Dread on the board (SS camped on any backfield objective) w/ librarian & Incinerator SS in reserve for DS ... drop them in near one of the Servos then use Summoning (the following turn) to bring the Dread forward to get those S7 rending shots from the assault cannon close in to the enemy

Some of the changes I'm contemplating are giving the Librarian a halberd instead of the sword (probably by dropping the SS halberd) but I like that his sword gives him a 4++ in cc.

I'd also like to get some more TDA models on the field, but I can't see a way to do that w/o dropping the Dread (one option for the same points would be 2 paladins, 1 w/ MC psycannon other with incinerator & falchions -- but my instincts tell me they'd be a lot less survivable than the dread).

Let me know what you think


Automatically Appended Next Post:
FWIW, I am busily putting the idea in the ear of the TOs that a standard force org chart might be a bit restrictive for a 600 point match, so, if that takes hold, any suggestions as to what I might do if I could drop one of the SSs (and which one) would be greatly appreciated...

Have you thought about Coteaz? He gets two rulebook powers which might be V helpful at this points level (Divination).

I just picked up GK as well (because of the DK really) but I'm finding that pure GK lists (ie no henchmen) at lower points levels have very few options.

At this point level, you might want to consider Coteaz plus some henchmen (warrior acolytes) to objective sit.

For your squads, I would suggest Psycannon plus 1 hammer in each. If you have points left over, get a warding stave, because that makes it far less likely the whole squad will get wiped. (not what the interweb will suggest, but then again at 600pts, you can't really afford to lose any of your troops!).

For the dreadnought, is there a reason why you didn't go for the 2 TL Assault cannons? Better anti flyer.

Tbh, you may get more mileage from an ADL+quad cannon.

If you aren't going with FOC I'd drop the Dread and one GKSS and go with a squad of interceptors and a purgation squad instead. This way you'll get an additional scoring unit if you get scouring or big guns. Also, you may be lucky and make your warlord scoring.

MarkCron wrote:
Have you thought about Coteaz? He gets two rulebook powers which might be V helpful at this points level (Divination) ... At this point level, you might want to consider Coteaz plus some henchmen (warrior acolytes) to objective sit.

I'm not sure what the conventions are these days (or what they will be for this particular tournament), but in the past most tournaments have banned special characters, so I've been planning around not being able to take Coteaz.

I'd consider using an inquisitor to save points on the HQ, but the other inquisitors' warbands don't count as troops, right? That would seem to limit their usefulness...

For your squads, I would suggest Psycannon plus 1 hammer in each. If you have points left over, get a warding stave, because that makes it far less likely the whole squad will get wiped. (not what the interweb will suggest, but then again at 600pts, you can't really afford to lose any of your troops!).

I'm generally not a huge fan of cookie cutter squads, so I thought the incinerator + hammer and possibly a few other weapon upgrades (halberd or two, falchions on the sgt) and an extra body might be handy for my more mobile troop choice. Pretty hesitant to take the nemesis staff though -- that's a lot of points for a ++ save that only works in CC. But I might drop at least 1 of those upgrades for an extra psy power for the Librarian.

For the dreadnought, is there a reason why you didn't go for the 2 TL Assault cannons? Better anti flyer.

Tbh, you may get more mileage from an ADL+quad cannon.

I'm not terribly worried about flyers in a 600 point game (though the local DE player definitely takes flyers in 1K games, so there's a chance I could be guessing wrong on that). But if someone's bringing a flyer at 600 points, I'm probably going to focus on trying to table him for victory 'cause he can't have brought a lot of other stuff.

I initially didn't go with the 2x TL AC because I thought I might need/want the extra flamer (w/ psyflame) to deal with hordes and/or I might want to keep the DCCW for S10 attacks. But instead I think I'm going to switch up the dread for Assault Cannon & TL Autocannon (+psybolt) -- to match the pattern I'm planning for a different army (saving $ and modeling time).

If you aren't going with FOC I'd drop the Dread and one GKSS and go with a squad of interceptors and a purgation squad instead. This way you'll get an additional scoring unit if you get scouring or big guns. Also, you may be lucky and make your warlord scoring.

Cool, thx -- I definitely like the idea of taking an interceptor squad ... a bit concerned that if I drop the dread I lose a lot of striking power & range... but that question will probably have to wait on the TO.

As a note, Paladins can only take special guns (psycannons, incinerators) if their units total 5 or more, so taking 2 paladins with psycannon and incinerator are a no-go.
Assault Cannon+TL Autocannon isn't a very good choice for dreadnoughts because you're either not using 24" of range, or you've spent all those points on an assault cannon you're not using. It's best if you can bring all your weapons to bear at once.
Special melee weapons are a major waste of point on Strike Squads. Taking 1 hammer/5 and giving the Justicar a halberd for challenges is generally as far as you want to go.

I understand that you may dislike cookiecutter squads, but if you're going competitive (and even, in my experience, for friendly games) you NEED to min-max your knights. As a small, elite army you need to spend points optimally or else you're just going to die.
You also NEED to take a psycannon in every available slot (except for on Interceptors, where taking incinerators can be the best choice, and Dreadknights, where heavy incinerators beat heavy psycannons by a TON). Psycannons are the work horse of the army. If you don't have psycannons, you have space marines with fancy swords and spears that die before they get to use them.

Grey Knights just do not forgive many mistakes, so you need to build lists to waste as few points and bring as many of their decent toys as possible.

For this points the best Hq choice(if you can't add Coteaz) for me is Ordo Malleus Inq with termie armor + TH + psycannon + lvl mastery 1 (divination-prescience) comming at 110 points

Then you should add 2x troop choices right ? Henchmen are best for these low points games but if you want to go with GK you can't afford termies (or else you would play an 11x termies army go with Draigowing better if that's what you would like to play) so you ought to go with 2x GKSS maths maths maths you are at 110+100+100= 310 points ..you can't leave home without at least a psycannon (I'd say 2 as they are cheaper in GKSS than the incinerator) and one incinerator so you are actually at 340 points .. You want that Dreadnought with 2x TL autocannons and psybolts for Anti-vehicle protection or else you have to get more THs and endanger your troops----> I' ll just say.....Naaaahh!!
so you have already reach 475 points ...

With only 125 points left I don't see a lot of options .. maybe an Interceptor Squad with psycannon (140) + a servo skull on Inq (3) + 1 searchlight (1) or a Purgation Squad with 4x Incinerators (100) in a rhino (40) + a servo skull on Inq (3) + 1 searchlight (1) if you drop your Incinerator from GKSS (20) leaving it bare and focusing it in camping a strategic point

That's all I can think of in such a few points for a GK list...Hope that helped good luck

When your Libby drops in, he won't be able to cast Summoning, since psykers can't cast start-of-turn powers on the turn they arrive from Reserve. This means that you'll have to weather a full turn of shooting (and potential assaults) before your other units can move up.
That's T3 at the earliest that you can summon, and if you fail both reserve rolls that's T5.

Rihgu wrote:
Assault Cannon+TL Autocannon isn't a very good choice for dreadnoughts because you're either not using 24" of range, or you've spent all those points on an assault cannon you're not using. It's best if you can bring all your weapons to bear at once.

Maybe I'm coming at this from a different way, but I tend to see the Assault Cannon as the primary wep on the dread -- S7 rending shots gives me a chance to glance & even pen anything, even AV14 (7 + 6(rolling lucky) +1 (min for the extra roll) = 14) ... I'm not expecting to see any Land Raiders, but I might see a Tau Hammerhead (av 13 front). And the rending also makes the assault cannon a threat to MEQs or TEQs too. It's a lot of versatility, which I think will be really helpful in a list this small.

And given that I can't take 2 assault cannons, the question becomes what else do I use to supplement the dread's firepower or deal with the weakness of the assault cannon? The answer to that seems to be the TL - Autocannon as it gets the extra range to prevent the dread from being a non-factor with only short ranged weapons, gets a boost from the points I've already spent on the psybolt, and against enemies w/in 24" 4 S7 rending + 2 TL S8 shots seems like a good combination.

I'm betting this question is only going to be answered to my satisfaction by some playtesting, but given the price is the same for the assault vs. the 2nd TL autocannon, hopefully I can model myself some flexibility with choices.

You also NEED to take a psycannon in every available slot (except for on Interceptors, where taking incinerators can be the best choice, and Dreadknights, where heavy incinerators beat heavy psycannons by a TON). Psycannons are the work horse of the army. If you don't have psycannons, you have space marines with fancy swords and spears that die before they get to use them.

I see your point here, but doesn't the ability to DS one of the Strike Squads (near a servo skull for less scatter) and thus bring the incinerator into play make the incinerator a bit more of a viable option for a SS rather than interceptor?

Grey Knights just do not forgive many mistakes, so you need to build lists to waste as few points and bring as many of their decent toys as possible.

Yeah, this tourney is going to be a bit of a trial by fire for me, as I haven't played a single game with GK to this point (not even proxied, though I'm hoping to get some test games in over the coming weeks)... the proof will be in the pudding I guess


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
When your Libby drops in, he won't be able to cast Summoning, since psykers can't cast start-of-turn powers on the turn they arrive from Reserve. This means that you'll have to weather a full turn of shooting (and potential assaults) before your other units can move up.
That's T3 at the earliest that you can summon, and if you fail both reserve rolls that's T5.

Yeah, I am aware of that restriction... and I've got a couple of ideas of how to use Summoning to my advantage with the Librarian starting the game on the board, but they're a bit reliant on surprise to work (the kinda thing that probably works at most once per opponent ... and probably also best used on an enemy with no psykers/deny the witch ability).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Spectral wrote:
For this points the best Hq choice(if you can't add Coteaz) for me is Ordo Malleus Inq with termie armor + TH + psycannon + lvl mastery 1 (divination-prescience) comming at 110 points

Ok, so with a general Inq & warband, they're HQ/Elites (but single FOC) choices and not necessarily scoring units... that means to me, that the OrdMalInq & Warband's big advantage to me would be to put 2 units on the board during deployment, letting me reserve/DS up to 3 other units.

I'll admit I haven't thought much about Inqui-Warbands and what might work, but I'm thinking some Crusaders (for the Storm Shield saves), but I'd want to keep this batch cheap (and possibly expendable) so as to get some cool/fun/other GK units onto the board (interceptors, for example).

How do you run your warbands and what point levels do they come in at?

Been doing a bit more thinking about what I'd take to a 600pt game as a Cron player. Just quickly, I came up with:



The problem I see is that pure GK don't seem to like low points levels, particularly if you can't get henchmen as troops. Also, long range weaponry isn't really affordable (the Psyfleman is ok, but only has 3 hull points). So, I'd play something like this:

OM Inquisitor - Psyker (Prescience), 3xServo skulls
1 x GKSS, Psycannon
1 x GKSS, Psycannon, Hammer
1 x Interceptor (Incinerator, Hammer)
1 x Purgation Squad (3xPsycannon, 1 Incinerator, Teleport homer) - OMI goes here.

The OMI is basically there to give Prescience. I think it would be better to have Terminator armour, but then I had to drop too much stuff off the other squads.

I'd play this by using the servo skulls to try to force the opponent into a corner, then place the Purgation squad in cover somewhere near the centre of the board. Start the Interceptors on the table (may not be best use of shunt move, could always DS near a skull) and keep 1 (or 2, if you are feeling lucky) of the GKSS in reserve.

The Purgation squad with Prescience gives you 12 TL Psycannon shots which should be pretty useful. You'll get mobility (Interceptors, DS near skulls - or just DS) of sorts. But anything with AV14 and you'll be stuffed. Why can't GKSS take Melta bombs? . If you get Scouring or Big guns you'll get an additional scoring unit.

I think this would go quite well against my Cron list (even if I swap out for fliers).

If I calculated right there are 5 points spare.

If you are in the ear of the TO, a no flyer, no AV 14 rule would be useful!

hth