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I hope that update is soon, and contains something motivational!

^yeah I noticed that, hope it picks up again.

I'm a little worried that this project may wind up being too front-loaded with pledges for its own good.

It will, overtyrant. Don't panic (yet)!
The campaign seems to be a bit front-loaded and the RH kickstarter main page is not as organized as it could be. I expect the number to go up slightly over the coming days.

Tommy Blaze about 3 hours ago

@LnR I understand that you are running a business and business better has carefully laid plans. So you can't act like the reckless wild bunch of hobbyists (us) you are dealing with. On the other hand as a business you want to sell your (great!) goods. Wouldn't it be good to hear what customers want most and then sell a lot of that? Well, guess I'm cracking wise. Just keep in mind - people pledge on kewl stuff they see. But on silhouettes? I won't. :-)

Creator Loud'n Raging about 3 hours ago

@Tommy: Thanks for your wise comments. And please know that we're listening, and that's a promise. We're actually well-known for asking and adapting to feedback, so that won't change. But with 29 days to go, that does leave time to unveil the hidden ladies. Contrary to some other Kickstarters, we chose to show (through silhouettes, it's true) most of the minis making up the 3 armies right off the bat, rather than trickling them out 2 stretch goals at a time. So this way, people get to see how they COULD spend their pledge, even if everything is not yet unlocked. Somehow, methinks we wouldn't have been off to such a strong launch if we had started off with only a quarter of what's on the page rather, and no silhouettes...

We're about 4 hours removed from the first hint of an update - this was about the same stretch of time between announcement of update and actual update yesterday, so we should see something soon.

Indeed, about four hours since they popped back up on KS. Though that doesn't mean we're overly close to them posting anything, given the wildly differing times between them saying they're working on an update and it appearing.

Other than that it's been a quiet day. Only a few hundred dollars this afternoon. Not enough to say it's stalled, but it does look a little disconcerting at this stage.

Current funds: $308,894

I'd like to know exactly what they are talking about with regards to spincast resin and which firm they will be working with for this

I'm guessing that its the equivalent of GW finecast or Trollforge's trollcast ? (so using rubber moulds)

although I wonder if it's a translation issue and it's actually something closer to PP or Sedition Wars restic (so using metal moulds)...

(which might explain some of the apparently high stretches if the heroines stretches also contributed to the more expensive box set costs)

if any of the heralds could try and clarify this i's appreciate it

 Kroothawk wrote:
I am not sure if any other non-US-UK company succeeded in meeting all kickstarter requirements, but it is a hell of an effort that takes its time and is not totally predictable.

First one that comes to mind is the Maki Games terrain KS that's been ticking along quite nicely since it kicked off.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Barzam wrote:
Well, this project hasn't pulled a Thon yet, that's good. It seems like there's been an awful lot of criticism towards how this one's being run since pretty much day one.

Yeah, that's probably why it got funded in 30 seconds, made 120,000 $ in less than an hour and more than 300,000 $ in just three days, because noone likes this project and it is buried in criticism

Some people seem to blame Raging Heroes, that unlike GW, they announced this project more than a week in advance, as if that is a bad thing. I am not sure if any other non-US-UK company succeeded in meeting all kickstarter requirements, but it is a hell of an effort that takes its time and is not totally predictable.

Also I want to repeat that RH is confident that all designed models will be unlocked during this kickstarter, so no need to panic the first three days.

In the long run and most probably after the kickstarter, it is possible that RH will do vehicles fitting the motorbikes and Mechas released by then.

Whoah, whoah, hold up there Kroot. I'm not against this Kickstarter at all. It just seemed to me that a lot of people have been criticisizing it and the way it's been handled so far. I've seen a lot of people talking about lowering their pledges, too. Remember, Thon had funded fairly quickly too. It even hit its first stretch goal. Sure, it wasn't nearly as fast as this one was nor as heavily funded, but it did fund and did have a fair bit of initial support. And I wasn't being sarcastic when I said it's good that this hasn't turned into another Thon. I'm glad it's still going strong.

Kroothawk seems overly invested in this one for some reason - it is almost as if he's lost the ability to discuss it rationally.

But THON is a good example to bring up here, even though I don't think this one will implode at all, there is some concern over a stall and/or backslide that could prevent everything from 'unlocking', and if that happens, nearer to the end this one could experience quite the roll back.

Still, we're due an update today, and hopefully that one will allay everyone's concerns.

 Alpharius wrote:
Kroothawk seems overly invested in this one for some reason - it is almost as if he's lost the ability to discuss it rationally.

Give the storm of derision that hit these forums on day one, I think his defensiveness can be forgiven.

 Breotan wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Kroothawk seems overly invested in this one for some reason - it is almost as if he's lost the ability to discuss it rationally.

Give the storm of derision that hit these forums on day one, I think his defensiveness can be forgiven.

Sorry. I rolled Storm of Derision on the Forums table and just had to use it.

 Breotan wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Kroothawk seems overly invested in this one for some reason - it is almost as if he's lost the ability to discuss it rationally.

Give the storm of derision that hit these forums on day one, I think his defensiveness can be forgiven.

That's an interesting viewpoint.

Using that logic, the opposite should also be 'forgiven' or at the very least, viewed tolerantly.

I think what's concerning people is that RH has the quality and pedigree to do fantastic like Kingdom Death and thus far are doing "merely" very well. My personal opinion is that it is far too early in the process to be worried; we're not even through the first week. Are there things to be aware of? Sure, like there's a risk of early backers dropping out if the value proposition doesn't change and that until the timer reads all zeroes, none of that money is guaranteed. Are these things that are going to cause a huge issue? Doubtful.

I think most people who are criticizing RH are doing so because they see potential far in excess of actual performance and are trying to show areas that RH could make adjustments to get those two things closer together. They are offering constructive criticism on things that could be improved, and that's a good thing. They aren't saying "Those snobby French bastiches just want to take your money and don't care about the product nor consumer" or any other attacks, they are merely saying "many other companies have found greater success with this or that tack."

RH is within their rights to do things their way, because each company and situation is unique. To ignore ideas on improvement, which should be noted is different from discounting after deeming it unfeasible, is folly from any company and I doubt RH is doing that (who knows for sure though?). To get upset at someone offering said critiques intended to improve things is likewise folly for a consumer. If nothing happens, then you were happy with how things were anyway, right? If they make things better, then you benefit as well. Let people have their polite and constructive say and let the company decide what is in their best interest.

I'm not sure of the need to defend any company really, except from a baseless attack such as "RH is just a GW knock-off" or similar nonsense.

Again, I don't think the biggest 'issue' is the lack of freebies - it is the lack of options being unlocked and the, to date, slow pace of said unlocks.

Again, maybe they'll address this, change this, ignore this, etc.

And you're right - we'll see!

I think a big issue with this KS is that it isn't a boardgame (Kingdom Death, Sedition Wars) or it isn't a prepackaged deal (Deadzone, Bones), and too many people may have been expecting something like that. It's closer to Bombshell Babes, Damsels of Darkmyre, or Dreamforge Games in that you essentially pledge a certain amount of money and select a certain number of miniatures to fulfill that pledge. You get some freebies as goals are unlocked, as well as many more additional options.

Perhaps the problem Raging Heroes faces is that they basically showed us all of the potential options at the beginning. I think they should have kept up to half of the models a secret, revealing them only as stretch goals as the days go by. That way, everybody's initial pledge is according to what they see at the beginning, and each new unlock allows them to increase pledges. As it stands now, you can set your pledge at the very beginning to cover all the models you could possibly want, and unless a surprise comes along, there's little need to up your pledge (since the unlocks can be chosen as part of your pledge, instead of as an addition to it).

Perhaps another issue is the expectations we now have for gaming Kickstarter projects. We expect lots of stretch goals. We expect lots of extra options to appear after the start of the project. We expect freebies. We expect all of that in abundance. What we don't expect is for gaming Kickstarters to be like the majority of the nongaming Kickstarters where pretty much all you get is what you pledged for at the beginning, with maybe a bonus option or freebie or two, and that is what this project is looking like.

A few times now, RH has stated that they were following KS's suggestions in how to run things (less frequent updates, etc.), so these suggestions from KS may have guided the entire creation of this project. We, as gamers, know that this style is not as effective for games (we've all been through many of them: Sedition Wars, Zombicide, Bones, Deadzone, etc.), but Raging Heroes may not have had this experience to draw on. That has hurt them (how much, we can't be certain, as the Kicktraq charts that are posted so far look pretty much like all the other projects we've been a part of). But, RH do seem to be learning from it.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Perhaps the problem Raging Heroes faces is that they basically showed us all of the potential options at the beginning. I think they should have kept up to half of the models a secret, revealing them only as stretch goals as the days go by. That way, everybody's initial pledge is according to what they see at the beginning, and each new unlock allows them to increase pledges. As it stands now, you can set your pledge at the very beginning to cover all the models you could possibly want, and unless a surprise comes along, there's little need to up your pledge (since the unlocks can be chosen as part of your pledge, instead of as an addition to it).

Honestly, this is what I liked most about this KS. I know what I'm getting upfront. I think that if they had gotten me to pledge for a couple of minis, and then trickled out surprise unlocks in order to string me along and empty out more cash on the table, I would feel less like I was dealing with an artist and more like I was dealing with either a con man or a crack dealer. That seems very underhanded and manipulative to me.

My take on it is that RH has implied that due to the huge initial success, they already plan to unlock everything. The reason for the larger intervals and the adjusted schedule of unlocked extras is because they want to pace it out, so that we don't wind up with everything unlocked in the first two days. And I'm fine with that. I've got a pretty good idea of the things that are coming (even the ones which aren't unlocked), which ones I want, and I've pledged accordingly. There's no reason for them to have to spin me around like a street huckster to get more cash out of me. I actually appreciate the rather straightforward approach they've taken in that regard.

I think you're right in that they could have made more money with a more manipulative, less ethical approach, but on the whole I find this a refreshing change. That is, of course, just my opinion, and it could be totally wrong.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
I think a big issue with this KS is that it isn't a boardgame (Kingdom Death, Sedition Wars) or it isn't a prepackaged deal (Deadzone, Bones), and too many people may have been expecting something like that. It's closer to Bombshell Babes, Damsels of Darkmyre, or Dreamforge Games in that you essentially pledge a certain amount of money and select a certain number of miniatures to fulfill that pledge. You get some freebies as goals are unlocked, as well as many more additional options.

Perhaps the problem Raging Heroes faces is that they basically showed us all of the potential options at the beginning. I think they should have kept up to half of the models a secret, revealing them only as stretch goals as the days go by. That way, everybody's initial pledge is according to what they see at the beginning, and each new unlock allows them to increase pledges. As it stands now, you can set your pledge at the very beginning to cover all the models you could possibly want, and unless a surprise comes along, there's little need to up your pledge (since the unlocks can be chosen as part of your pledge, instead of as an addition to it).

Perhaps another issue is the expectations we now have for gaming Kickstarter projects. We expect lots of stretch goals. We expect lots of extra options to appear after the start of the project. We expect freebies. We expect all of that in abundance. What we don't expect is for gaming Kickstarters to be like the majority of the nongaming Kickstarters where pretty much all you get is what you pledged for at the beginning, with maybe a bonus option or freebie or two, and that is what this project is looking like.

A few times now, RH has stated that they were following KS's suggestions in how to run things (less frequent updates, etc.), so these suggestions from KS may have guided the entire creation of this project. We, as gamers, know that this style is not as effective for games (we've all been through many of them: Sedition Wars, Zombicide, Bones, Deadzone, etc.), but Raging Heroes may not have had this experience to draw on. That has hurt them (how much, we can't be certain, as the Kicktraq charts that are posted so far look pretty much like all the other projects we've been a part of). But, RH do seem to be learning from it.

Very well put together post, and probably the most level-headed analysis I've seen of past projects compared to the RH project in this thread so far. I'm content to wait and see at this point.

~iPaint

In addition, the one mention of injected plastics on the Kickstarter main page is, I think, being misinterpreted. My read on it was that the plans for injected plastics were in the future. (As in: if this project shows that there is a higher demand for our type of work, we will look into making a line of plastic minis as well.) I do not think it was intended to be read as an intent to turn these minis into plastics.

I'm kind of torn at the minute. I realise that it's early days, but I just checked how much UK pounds I have pledged for what is currently looking like around 30-35 (admittedly stunning) minis. £120

For not that much more, I can pick up a Warmachine starter box, a Dust tactics starter, and an Infinity Aleph starter. (about £150) I've been drooling over all three systems for a while. That bags me 51 minis, including two walkers and four warjacks, along with rules, dice, tokens etc etc to actually play two of the three systems.

Some may argue that TGG minis are nicer, but I'm not sure they are so much nicer that I'm willing to hold off on those purchases to get some models in a year or so's time. Thinking I might bomb on this one, and just pick stuff up retail once I see the final product.

I'll see how things are in a month...

 Alpharius wrote:
Kroothawk seems overly invested in this one for some reason - it is almost as if he's lost the ability to discuss it rationally.

Well, I have yet to find a rational criticism to this kickstarter. I met your claim of no RH updates with a quoted update found in this thread, how unrational of me. I met the criticism of too few unlocks with presenting the graph of all unlocks and counting the 90 high quality miniatures already unlocked, most of them multi-pose. I met the criticism of an unsuccessful start with numbers and facts. I met the criticism of how long the preparation time took with stating the difficulties of non US-UK companies to take part in kickstarters. If US citizens have to wait for an update until dawn in Europe, I asked for patience and common sense. If dakka members chatting online all day criticize RH for not chatting all day but doing furhter work on this monster project, I asked for patience and common sense. If all this is unrational, then so be it.

Well, the only real complaint I've got is that there isn't a low level pledge just for troops.

$310,000 reached. New unlock.

And we just hit the $310,000 unlock level.


And beaten to the post...



Putting the updated image up, as the previous one is now broken.

We have reached $310,000 =)

 Kroothawk wrote:
Well, I have yet to find a rational criticism to this kickstarter. I met your claim of no RH updates with a quoted update found in this thread, how unrational of me.

Don't you know, making an accusation of bias is a classic attempt to discredit someone's opinion? They're unable to speak rationally, because of emotional investment, and thus their opinion should be ignored. I, however, find your comments to be some of the most rational in this thread. I feel Dakka's expectations for a Kickstarter drive have become irrational. The forum has come to expect the equivalent of one minute (one month?) in the Cash Grab Booth.



Making any sort of prediction on the success or failure of this Kickstarter at such an early point in it's life may be unreasonable. We have three days of activity to gauge the whole of the process by. I'm not calling for an end to speculation, please speculate! That's what this forum is for. I'm just pointing out that those who feel such speculation is premature are not, by default, irrational.

I have happily pledged at the Lieutenant level and patiently await updates. Of course, I eagerly anticipate the next update! As most of us are. I think that's the real issue. We are all excited for this Kickstarter, to the point of frothing at the mouth. There is scent of freshly roasted meat and we are all eager to sate our ravenous appetites. Any barking this forum does before we're served is simply that, barking.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Kroothawk seems overly invested in this one for some reason - it is almost as if he's lost the ability to discuss it rationally.

Well, I have yet to find a rational criticism to this kickstarter. ... If dakka members chatting online all day criticize RH for not chatting all day but doing furhter work on this monster project, I asked for patience and common sense. If all this is unrational, then so be it.

Hmmmmmmm...

 Barzam wrote:
Well, the only real complaint I've got is that there isn't a low level pledge just for troops.

If i understood correctly RH are in the process of creating new pledge levels for both more heroines, like the painter level, or more troop-centric offers. Perhaps the heralds know more about this or could ask (again).

 Kroothawk wrote:
Well, I have yet to find a rational criticism to this kickstarter.

I think that there are several reasonable critiques. I think it might be best to try and assemble them into a coherent list, and maybe we can check them off as they are addressed, or keep them in mind if they are not addressed at the end of the project if you remain on the fence about it.

-------------

1.) What are the plans for plastic injection molding?

We split the casting between two foundries: One in metal and one in resin, so that neither gets overwhelmed with volume should this KS exceed expectations. And if this Kickstarter was to go extremely well, we also have back-up plans for injected plastics

Several people have said ITT that they mean the material known as "plestic", which is spin-cast. This is clearly not what they have said. I think most people would agree it's going "extremely well", yes? So perhaps an update on that front.

2.) Will there be more frequent updates?

(I personally don't buy into this one too much - 4 updates in 3 days seems acceptable. But Buzzsaw et al have explained cogently why they disagree, and others sure seem to want them, so it's a concern).

3.) Will the spacing between the unlocks contract as the project slows down?

(I personally think this was asked and answered, but it's a repeat concern.)

4.) Will you add some pledges for troops only, without heroines?


So.. what's 5 plus, exactly?

They've mentioned more heroine only levels, but no troop only levels. I haven't got that much I can spend, so as I've said before, something like the Private level except with a box of troops instead of a heroine would be great.