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2013/06/27 04:25:15
Subject: Re:Raging Heroes [official] - Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter is live!
I'd just like to make a post here thanking the Heralds for their effort in go-betweening the communication between us on Dakka and RH, while also remaining objective and even-handed when the campaign makes both positive moves and mis-steps.
I'd also like to thank Kroot (via MajorTom) for keeping the OP updated, since from the moment they posted it was clear that RH wouldn't be able to do it while simultaneously trying to run a KS.
New Update! And I am officially in love with the shock trooper heavies.
Update #29 Before anything else, PLEASE keep in mind that this sculpt is still a work in progress, and that we did this 3D-print in order to better assess some of this Kurganova Heavy Trooper proportions and make the right changes where needed.
Here are some of our conclusions on this print.
First of all, one of the main concerns was that this trooper might be a bit too squat. As explained in our previous update on the One-Shot Blondie print, the 3D renders always appear more squat than the actual print itself.
And just as we thought, the 3D print is actually not too squat at all.
However, as some of you have already noted, the breasts do not work well the way they are. As we also mentioned in the same previous update, that is the reason we always let the sculpts rest for a while before coming back to rework the last details, because when you work for quite some time on a sculpt, your eye becomes accustomed to it and you miss some imperfections that, later on, will just jump at you. Such was the case here. However, we sent it to 3D-printing before the final revisions because we wanted to show you a prototype before the end of the Kickstarter. So, we will make the breasts smaller.
We will also give her a slightly wider chest and shoulders because we feel that we could accentuate a bit the “Heavy Troops” aspect in her silhouette.
Overall, you can see that when this miniature stands on the tabletop side-by-side with other Raging Heroes minis as well as nest to minis from other companies, this Trooper already blends quite nicely just the way it is now.
So, this means that with the additional touch-ups we have currently planned, we should achieve an even better integration and, at the same time, keep the Raging Heroes feel that you are telling us you want (yeah!!!).
In the images below, you'll see comparisons of the Kurganova Heavy Trooper 3D print next to minis from various companies.
You will also see an animated GIF that shows how the 3D-print came out and what changes we have planned.
Hell yes.
Edit: HAH! Finally got an update in! Victory! :p
and thanks Az, we appreciate it, we're happy to help, and to street team for RH, but I'm just as aggravated/cautious about my cash as the rest of you!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/27 04:31:24
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
Alyanumbers wrote: I don't want to drag the thread back into the argument over proportions, but... is it me or are Mortaria Noctis' legs way too long?
somewheresomehow wrote: I can see it, but I think it comes from the uniform more than actual body proportions.
Plug/Gimp/Body suits of that style can visually affect height and weight perceptions of individuals.
So not really you, but kinda you. That face also does horrible things to the perspective as well.
It's also RH's house art style. Generally they use "supermodel" proportions for legs, with heroic scale breasts. It's generally something you either like or dislike.
Now that they've dropped the pretense of "we might not unlock everything", I wonder if the Heralds could ask them again for wave shipping information, please?
I must say that I am very close to completely satisfied with the look of things so far (bearing in mind I'm actually going for IE units, but still). Whatever qualms I have about the manner of running the campaign, the do appear to have an artist's pride in their work, which is an invaluable quality in such a project.
I'm still of the opinion that there's too much leg and not enough torso, especially for such an upright pose. Closer to 1/3/3 should be the near-ideal proportions with relation to head, torso, and legs.
The prints are closer to 1/2/3, which makes the model seem like it has no lower abdomen, just a (rather large still) chest. At 1/2/3, the hips are basically right below the lower ribs, cutting out the equivalent of about 4-6 inches (in scale) of musculature that makes up the lower abdomen. I don't think the solution is a wider chest, but rather a taller torso and slightly shorter legs.
I think if RH can achieve the above proportions, the models will fit in with the current Blood Vestals, the TGG Heroines, and all the while adhering to a more realistic human body proportion than the rather stunty GW models. They'll also seem less leggy, which I think would help a bit.
~iPaint
iPaint's Workbench - a blog for all of my painting endeavors
Currently painting: 20mm WW2, 28mm Zombicide
In the pipeline: 28mm Reaper Bones, Dwarven Forge Game Tiles
2013/06/27 07:59:22
Subject: Re:Raging Heroes [official] - Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter is live!
I just want to highlight that over on the Kickstarter comments section a lot of backers are saying they preferred the taller version, this makes we wonder what will happen now will they be altering the render again ?
Also nothing is finalised I know they have mentioned bulking out the shoulder armour, but my concern is they might revert back to the taller miniature due to feedback.
To be honest I wish they would just make a final decision.
2013/06/27 08:06:30
Subject: Raging Heroes [official] - Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter is live!
rayphoton wrote: I like the taller too....girls have longer legs...in my world at least
Well thats fair enough but myself I want something that will at least blend with the rest of my miniatures, however I wish they would make a final decision as to the proportions so I know whether to keep my backing or withdraw.
2013/06/27 08:11:06
Subject: Re:Raging Heroes [official] - Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter is live!
I'm still of the opinion that there's too much leg and not enough torso, especially for such an upright pose. Closer to 1/3/3 should be the near-ideal proportions with relation to head, torso, and legs.
The prints are closer to 1/2/3, which makes the model seem like it has no lower abdomen, just a (rather large still) chest. At 1/2/3, the hips are basically right below the lower ribs, cutting out the equivalent of about 4-6 inches (in scale) of musculature that makes up the lower abdomen. I don't think the solution is a wider chest, but rather a taller torso and slightly shorter legs.
I think if RH can achieve the above proportions, the models will fit in with the current Blood Vestals, the TGG Heroines, and all the while adhering to a more realistic human body proportion than the rather stunty GW models. They'll also seem less leggy, which I think would help a bit.
~iPaint
Yep, not a fan of the current proportions of the troops. On the plus side, now I won't have to increase my pledge in order to include any troops, and only need to pay for a few heroes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/27 08:11:31
2013/06/27 08:14:06
Subject: Raging Heroes [official] - Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter is live!
I plan to use these models as IG veterans personally, and really like the shorter new versions. If they go back to leggy giants that tower over cadians or elysians, then I have plenty of other things I want to spend money on. I'm hoping the normal Kuro troops are scaled down to match the heavies.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/27 08:15:41
2013/06/27 08:14:50
Subject: Re:Raging Heroes [official] - Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter is live!
lone dirty dog wrote: I just want to highlight that over on the Kickstarter comments section a lot of backers are saying they preferred the taller version, this makes we wonder what will happen now will they be altering the render again ?
Well, if they go with the taller version, I have no use for these.
I on the other hand am more interested in the troops and a few heroes so I am quite worried on how these will turn out....
Why they insist gimping themselves in been compatible with GW, by definition they will never be and it only makes their product look inconsistent and of lower quality.....
I say keep her at the same level as the vestal, keep the same proportions the heroes do and do widen the torso and shrink the breasts.
2013/06/27 08:23:41
Subject: Re:Raging Heroes [official] - Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter is live!
lone dirty dog wrote: I just want to highlight that over on the Kickstarter comments section a lot of backers are saying they preferred the taller version, this makes we wonder what will happen now will they be altering the render again ?
Well, if they go with the taller version, I have no use for these.
Totally agree with you I know it is all down to personal preference.
2013/06/27 08:26:47
Subject: Raging Heroes [official] - Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter is live!
Really, we'll only stop expecting Fisher Price scale once people stop trying to force themselves to fit the GW standard and start to actually move away from it.
With GW not even supporting tournament events anymore, it's not even like forcing yourself to fit with the GW aesthetic is required, anyway. And with GW's chokehold on the industry only shrinking, there is no need to stick with their outdated and ugly standards.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/27 08:30:32
2013/06/27 08:29:23
Subject: Raging Heroes [official] - Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter is live!
PsychoticStorm wrote: I on the other hand am more interested in the troops and a few heroes so I am quite worried on how these will turn out....
Why they insist gimping themselves in been compatible with GW, by definition they will never be and it only makes their product look inconsistent and of lower quality.....
I say keep her at the same level as the vestal, keep the same proportions the heroes do and do widen the torso and shrink the breasts.
Although we have different views as to the final look I do understand your concerns, I for one held of backing this kickstarter due to there previous releases not fitting my needs.
However once they released there early render with the intention of moving inline with other manufactures scales I jumped happily on board, however they seem to keep jumping from one scale to another with no real commitment.
They need to make a final decision and please some of the people but not all of them, I would rather know if I want to back or not be decisive or either way i will withdraw.
I think a lot of people are feeling the same way as to the scale issue, if they don't get it sorted soon I think people might withdraw due to concerns anyway.
2013/06/27 08:31:05
Subject: Raging Heroes [official] - Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter is live!
Fafnir wrote: Really, we'll only stop expecting Fisher Price scale once people stop trying to force themselves to fit the GW standard and start to actually move away from it.
With GW not even supporting tournament events anymore, it's not even like forcing yourself to fit with the GW aesthetic is required, anyway.
Some of us actually like that aesthetic. As I've said, slightly heroic proportions look better on actual models.
But this is a matter of preference, and RH is a difficult situation. What ever they do, many people will not like it.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I on the other hand am more interested in the troops and a few heroes so I am quite worried on how these will turn out....
Why they insist gimping themselves in been compatible with GW, by definition they will never be and it only makes their product look inconsistent and of lower quality.....
I say keep her at the same level as the vestal, keep the same proportions the heroes do and do widen the torso and shrink the breasts.
I'm less concerned with the proportions as with the height. The tall giant leggy females are just too big next to GW and FW models.
2013/06/27 08:34:01
Subject: Raging Heroes [official] - Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter is live!
Fafnir wrote: Really, we'll only stop expecting Fisher Price scale once people stop trying to force themselves to fit the GW standard and start to actually move away from it.
With GW not even supporting tournament events anymore, it's not even like forcing yourself to fit with the GW aesthetic is required, anyway.
Look you may like a particular style and look which is fine, but not everyone has the same taste therefore there is no right or wrong just demand.
GW are not the only ones to work in this scale and therefore I have a lot of miniatures in this scale.
On top of that I have no interest in gaming so is of no issue or concern, however I still have an understanding of other peoples needs.
So try looking at it as an overall issue rather than just one sided, you have a right to your opinion but it's not the only one.
All I am asking for is a final decision as to scale so people can make a realistic decision, if the miniatures are of no use fine but let me know.
2013/06/27 08:42:27
Subject: Raging Heroes [official] - Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter is live!
Agreed but, their entire line is a "realistic" proportioned line with idealized proportions and around 32mm tall iirc.
The first two days of people jumped in with this in mind, not with 28mm heroic proportioned models.
If they change their line to fit GW it will backfire to them badly, if they change their proportions to fit GW it will backfire to them badly, more than 75% of their backing at this moment comes from people who expect them to deliver the same they used to do and not a GW compatible product.
If they compromise with the hope to potentially attract the "GW crowd" it will damage their reputation and integrity, it also showed how small the "GW crowd" interested in their product been compatible with GW is.
They should have taken a note from CB which clearly illustrated beyond doubt that doing your own thing is not only viable, but also profitable and yes if you do gorgeous models most people will buy them and use them in any game they like compatible or not.
On an off topic note, why would people care about scales in GW range, they are inconsistent and all over the place anyway from the original manufacturer and any model been non heroic scaled looks out of line by definition.
2013/06/27 08:48:33
Subject: Raging Heroes [official] - Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter is live!
In the old thread they promised that these would be compatible with GW minis. It was one of the biggest concerns.
Also, I'd guess that majority of people plan to use these as IG. Whether they care about scale I cannot say. Personally I do; it will just look weird if female soldiers are head taller than male soldiers.
PsychoticStorm wrote: Agreed but, their entire line is a "realistic" proportioned line with idealized proportions and around 32mm tall iirc.
The first two days of people jumped in with this in mind, not with 28mm heroic proportioned models.
If they change their line to fit GW it will backfire to them badly, if they change their proportions to fit GW it will backfire to them badly, more than 75% of their backing at this moment comes from people who expect them to deliver the same they used to do and not a GW compatible product.
If they compromise with the hope to potentially attract the "GW crowd" it will damage their reputation and integrity, it also showed how small the "GW crowd" interested in their product been compatible with GW is.
They should have taken a note from CB which clearly illustrated beyond doubt that doing your own thing is not only viable, but also profitable and yes if you do gorgeous models most people will buy them and use them in any game they like compatible or not.
On an off topic note, why would people care about scales in GW range, they are inconsistent and all over the place anyway from the original manufacturer and any model been non heroic scaled looks out of line by definition.
Again, I personally don't care about the proportions nearly as much as the height of the models. The models look good, which is why I put money into my first kickstarter, but I am not going to buy them no matter how good they look if they tower over my Cadians and Elysians. I'm hoping RH goes with 28mm scale with the proportions they have now. The resized/smaller heavy trooper is why I am putting money into this, Not models that tower over even Marines.
2013/06/27 08:53:48
Subject: Raging Heroes [official] - Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter is live!
Crimson wrote: In the old thread they promised that these would be compatible with GW minis. It was one of the biggest concerns.
Also, I'd guess that majority of people plan to use these as IG. Whether they care about scale I cannot say. Personally I do; it will just look weird if female soldiers are head taller than male soldiers.
No one's saying the models have to be taller. Just make the proportions look human. Infinity models are, by and large, around the same height as GW minis, but have much better proportions that don't look like they came from a Fisher Price Playset catalogue.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/27 08:54:30
2013/06/27 08:56:10
Subject: Raging Heroes [official] - Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter is live!
Crimson wrote: In the old thread they promised that these would be compatible with GW minis. It was one of the biggest concerns.
Also, I'd guess that majority of people plan to use these as IG. Whether they care about scale I cannot say. Personally I do; it will just look weird if female soldiers are head taller than male soldiers.
Why? the guard are as tall as space marines are.
Besides if they are done realistic they will look different whatever their height.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/27 08:57:35
2013/06/27 08:56:25
Subject: Raging Heroes [official] - Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter is live!
I'm 50-50 on it myself, I think I'd use them no matter which scale, but I hope they make a decision soon.
It's not something they can make afterwards, I'd see folks pulling pledges rather than risk the wrong scale, but they now are in the odd position that no matter which way they go, odds are they will loose some people.
"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.
Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
2013/06/27 09:05:45
Subject: Raging Heroes [official] - Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter is live!
Crimson wrote: In the old thread they promised that these would be compatible with GW minis. It was one of the biggest concerns.
Also, I'd guess that majority of people plan to use these as IG. Whether they care about scale I cannot say. Personally I do; it will just look weird if female soldiers are head taller than male soldiers.
No one's saying the models have to be taller. Just make the proportions look human. Infinity models are, by and large, around the same height as GW minis, but have much better proportions that don't look like they came from a Fisher Price Playset catalogue.
Taller is an issue as a lot of the backers have said this in the comments section on the Kickstarter, RH make great looking minis that goes without saying but they need to clarify the scale issue ( height and width ).
GW does have a varying scale issue which to be honest I have steered from as much as possible, but a lot of other smaller companies are producing in a heroic scale no matter how you look at it not just GW.
Now I myself assumed RH would have followed there traditional style which is why I had no interest in backing, however after I saw some renders (the 28 mm scale) I thought great I can use these and they are going to look great so I backed.
As to realistic proportions there early work never reflected that either, I have not seen many woman at all with legs up to there armpits so the 28 mm render felt more realistic than them.
2013/06/27 09:13:43
Subject: Raging Heroes [official] - Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter is live!
I have faith that they'll get the proportions correct. They'll never be perfectly proportioned, but no miniatures are (nor are real people btw). Total faith in RH on this score. My only concern, as other share, is that they tower over space marines. That is my only concern. I plan to use these minis for a mixed imperial guard army, haven't yet decided which range will make up the male portion (still haven't fully decided between ie and k's), so they will line up next to my Space Marines at some point. I'm not hugely concerned with the height as I don't think RH will make them giants but I would be disappointed if they were taller. This is just my POV, I know many others have no intention of using them for 40k. I do think there is a happy medium to be found. Still excited, still pretty happy. But a decision before the end of KS would be nice.
Angels Amaranthine - growing slowly
Currently 200pts 
