Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Griever wrote:

Except that kickstarter does not compete with Warhammer or 40k. If somebody comes out with a larger scale sci/fi or near future tabletop wargame that can make miniatures that look okay let me know. Until then, there's no alternative.

Actually, WarPath, the parent game of DeadZone like 40k is the parent of Necromunda, is a larger scale sci-fi game and uses the same models as DeadZone (though DeadZone is skewed more towards elites than basic troops). You can even try out the rules for free and just use your 40k models.

I'd also keep an eye on Dreamforge Games. While they're probably more than a year out from even thinking about a ruleset, their models are already top-notch. The Crusader Leviathan compares quite well to the Wraithknight in terms of size, and blows it away on versatility. The Wraithknight does win on "weapons in the box" but that's really it. Eisenkern infantry look awesome and with their accessory kit can be customized in a number of ways. The upcoming APC that should (hopefully) see release by the end of the year is also shaping up to be amazing.

There's plenty of companies that are beginning to compete on even footing with GW, and that's the danger of GW pushing these prices up higher because they can. GW is the top dog today, and by a goodly margin, but acting like that is an immutable truth so they can do as they please is going to see them knocked off that top spot.

Wow. Has it been a year already?

Last year's price hike was the best thing that has ever happened to me in the hobby. I sold all of my GW stuff (GK and Eldar) and got heavily involved in WM/H. I have 200pts of Khador and 150pts of Mercs and I think I might have come out of pocket about $100 after all my earnings selling off my stuff.

Couldn't be happier either. So thanks GW for showing me the way.

 Vermillion wrote:

 Krinsath wrote:


As someone said, GW is just doing what the market will bear. However, pushing the market to the limit will generally end badly when your competitors have tons of room to play in because you pushed your prices so high.

Exactly, and with raging heroes about to do a female guard kickstarter, Mantic having just finished their deadzone starter (only mantic thing which has got me interested in looking at it now) for example they don;t have the exclusive rights to tabletop stuff they think they do. Personally I think they know the bubble has burst and the second those sales drop below a set level the shares they all have, they're up for sale under obfuscated figures.

Regiment boxes at the 12 - 20 models level at £15 for warhammer and the squads for 40k having 10-20 models for around £15 was about right and still think thats roughly what they're all worth personally.

This

The miniature wargames industry is not a "blue ocean" anymore, and GW is failing to acknowledge that.

So the price of models untouched yet how many here just had a spit over the models getting price rises? or DOUBLE rises cos you know they are more expensive with the release then again with the price rise? There was no model price rise, it was their paints... not a major concern.... the only really bunky price joke is the DA box sets.. thats a legitimate complaint.

now lets look at GW listening? was tehre an outcry that the digital codex's went too high up to $80? did they just become $60... it seems that someone in there is listening... was there some repackaging that actually got better? yarp there was. ( and no comparing it to a box set 5 years ago isnt really a fair comparison)

From the CHS lawsuit, we know that about an equal amount of their sales are from new releases and the rest are largely core units and battleforce boxes, mostly of the Space Marine variety.

So they may have hit the point where they can simply adjust prices on new products (as it makes them half their money) and do the occasional by the product adjustment rather than doing across the board price changes.

It could be that we've hit the point where there won't be anymore sweeping price increases and they will simply increase prices by releasing new product and doing the occasional adjustment and repackaging.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
If they wanted to provoke a bit less ire from their fanbase, they should have done it this way, honestly, from the beginning.

Realy? Dire avengers going up 2 pounds and Coming in half the amount as they did before will work better to not provoke the ire of its customers?.

I haven't read the whole thread but it occured to me that by having a lightning release schedule they could make their price rises constant drips and drabs by simply bringing out new models constantly at slightly bigger prices. No one can complain about the price of a figure that has not had a price before. I suspect they do listen, they just lack the management to work out where the problems lie. Perhaps the CEO was removed for a reason, maybe Kirwin didn't like the idea of shrinking volume sales and went for a change of strategy?

But it was Kirby's strategy, not Wells'. We will never know the real reason Wells left GW.

Price increases can indeed switch to a "drips and draps" approach, but if the average price per figure still goes up as rapidly, then it likely won't impact sales volume in any positive way.

xxvaderxx wrote:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
If they wanted to provoke a bit less ire from their fanbase, they should have done it this way, honestly, from the beginning.

Realy? Dire avengers going up 2 pounds and Coming in half the amount as they did before will work better to not provoke the ire of its customers?.

He has a point - GW have listened and learned, it would seem. Hiking prices en masse every year always provokes howls of outrage on message boards and forums alike. Doing it this way is less of a massive poo sandwich for everyone to take a bite from - some people won't even notice it. Of course, that doesn't mean that it will all fly under the radar - the Dire Avenger being one example - but raising prices and reboxing squads means that the annual price rise can be drip fed on the sly.

Isengard wrote:
I haven't read the whole thread but it occured to me that by having a lightning release schedule they could make their price rises constant drips and drabs by simply bringing out new models constantly at slightly bigger prices. No one can complain about the price of a figure that has not had a price before. I suspect they do listen, they just lack the management to work out where the problems lie. Perhaps the CEO was removed for a reason, maybe Kirwin didn't like the idea of shrinking volume sales and went for a change of strategy?

Hi, I see you're new to Dakka...

Seriously though, you legitimately can complain about something that didn't exist before. Suppose Space Marines come out with a new troop choice (I don't know... some sort of scouts in full power armor, say.) They're the best thing in the codex... same statline as a Space Marine except they don't have ATSKNF and are WS3/BS3 and cost 10 points each. They're sold in boxes of 5 for $65. People would be livid and, considering I tried to construct a fairly obvious money grab scenario, rightly so. In reality the situation would be more subtle, but this was an easy example to make.

 wowsmash wrote:
Yes, sadly I'm debating abandoning my orks and any ideas on another army. Seriously considering moving to another game. Its just to expensive to fast with no sign of slowing.

I went with Warmachine instead of building a Tau army...no regrets so far.

 Mad4Minis wrote:

 wowsmash wrote:
Yes, sadly I'm debating abandoning my orks and any ideas on another army. Seriously considering moving to another game. Its just to expensive to fast with no sign of slowing.

I went with Warmachine instead of building a Tau army...no regrets so far.

I bought a tactical squad and I also have no regrets. Let's just list things we don't regret eh.

So a legitimate response to finding a company's pricing to be unacceptable is to buy something they make in a different product line with the same price issues?

No wait, it's not. It's the actions of someone who doesn't have issues with the pricing... yet.

 Yonan wrote:

cadbren wrote:
While I get that price rises are likely to affect new people wanting to get into the game, why do they affect existing players who presumably have full armies already?

Do you have full armies of every race already? I assume not. If you choose to start one, you become as much affected as someone just starting. Sticking to just one army is boring imo.

Secondhand is good for fleshing out armies, you could swap armies, borrow, lend-lease whatever. Buying new is not the only option.

xxvaderxx wrote:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
If they wanted to provoke a bit less ire from their fanbase, they should have done it this way, honestly, from the beginning.

Realy? Dire avengers going up 2 pounds and Coming in half the amount as they did before will work better to not provoke the ire of its customers?.

I wouldnt agree with Mathieu on this one, doing stealth changes on new releases / repacks has a much better chance of flying under the radar then the bulk everything goes up 20%

Doubling prices is not exactly stealthy

I'd be willing to bet you good money some consumers would not have noticed the halving... even so far as "white-knighting" for GW when someone made such a "baseless accusation."

 Krinsath wrote:

Griever wrote:

Except that kickstarter does not compete with Warhammer or 40k. If somebody comes out with a larger scale sci/fi or near future tabletop wargame that can make miniatures that look okay let me know. Until then, there's no alternative.

Actually, WarPath, the parent game of DeadZone like 40k is the parent of Necromunda, is a larger scale sci-fi game and uses the same models as DeadZone (though DeadZone is skewed more towards elites than basic troops). You can even try out the rules for free and just use your 40k models.

I'd also keep an eye on Dreamforge Games. While they're probably more than a year out from even thinking about a ruleset, their models are already top-notch. The Crusader Leviathan compares quite well to the Wraithknight in terms of size, and blows it away on versatility. The Wraithknight does win on "weapons in the box" but that's really it. Eisenkern infantry look awesome and with their accessory kit can be customized in a number of ways. The upcoming APC that should (hopefully) see release by the end of the year is also shaping up to be amazing.

There's plenty of companies that are beginning to compete on even footing with GW, and that's the danger of GW pushing these prices up higher because they can. GW is the top dog today, and by a goodly margin, but acting like that is an immutable truth so they can do as they please is going to see them knocked off that top spot.

The Mantic Games models are just not on the same level, very unimpressed with their quality.

Then I highly suggest looking at DreamForge's Eisenkern until new DeadZone Enforcers get released at the end of the year to re-evaluate how Mantic's digital sculpting efforts pan out. While the aesthetic is obviously going to be subjective (if one doesn't like it, they don't like...same as some people not liking the oversize shoulder pads on Space Marines not matter how well-sculpted), from a technical standpoint those kits are at least on even footing with GW. They're not dramatically cheaper than GW like Mantic is, but they're excellent models in hard plastic.The Leviathan Crusader in particular is simply an amazing kit to put together.

Only downside is the lack of rules for Iron Core just yet, but nothing is stopping you from using 40k or WarPath rules.

Griever wrote:

 Krinsath wrote:

Griever wrote:

Except that kickstarter does not compete with Warhammer or 40k. If somebody comes out with a larger scale sci/fi or near future tabletop wargame that can make miniatures that look okay let me know. Until then, there's no alternative.

Actually, WarPath, the parent game of DeadZone like 40k is the parent of Necromunda, is a larger scale sci-fi game and uses the same models as DeadZone (though DeadZone is skewed more towards elites than basic troops). You can even try out the rules for free and just use your 40k models.

I'd also keep an eye on Dreamforge Games. While they're probably more than a year out from even thinking about a ruleset, their models are already top-notch. The Crusader Leviathan compares quite well to the Wraithknight in terms of size, and blows it away on versatility. The Wraithknight does win on "weapons in the box" but that's really it. Eisenkern infantry look awesome and with their accessory kit can be customized in a number of ways. The upcoming APC that should (hopefully) see release by the end of the year is also shaping up to be amazing.

There's plenty of companies that are beginning to compete on even footing with GW, and that's the danger of GW pushing these prices up higher because they can. GW is the top dog today, and by a goodly margin, but acting like that is an immutable truth so they can do as they please is going to see them knocked off that top spot.

The Mantic Games models are just not on the same level, very unimpressed with their quality.

Same level as what? Necromunda?

I haven't read the whole thread but it occured to me that by having a lightning release schedule they could make their price rises constant drips and drabs by simply bringing out new models constantly at slightly bigger prices.

They have indeed been doing that for the past year. Each new monthly release has brought higher price points on some models than older comparable models. Example, the Heldrake came out at $74 when the flyer models from the previous spring were only $45.50 US. The Forge Fiend was released at $66 when similar existing monster models, some much larger, were (and still are) priced at less than $60. Then the Dark Angels flyer weeks later was released at $75. And so on and so on. The Slaughterbrute was soon after released at $85, an entirely new high for a model of its size and type.

They've been creeping price points up here and there with each new release, but it's still a relief that they felt that was enough and didn't have an across the product line price increase this year as they've done in the recent past. Space Marine vehicles in particular had a huge price increase last year and will hopefully remain stable for a while longer.