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nkelsch wrote:
http://martwhim.tumblr.com/post/40061546009/why-do-you-hate-the-shape-of-breasts-in-plate-armor-so

Perfect article... It not only shows why the "bewb armor" is impractical and ineffective but would actually hurt or kill the person wearing it.

Cheesecake is just that, and many people see it as pointless trash. Don't confuse the market for female models with that for cheesecake models.

The current GW IG and SMs are beefcake. If people like that exaggerated male form they may also relish the exaggerated female form.

Or not.

Yes, there probably is the opportunity to do "realistic" female soldiers, but they also need to be recognisably not male soldiers, or what is the point? I don't think that can be achieved just be making them a bit shorter. There has to be something done with the body form to make it female without being cheesecake.

 Taarnak wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
So every male model who wears a cup needs a giant, exterior, over exaggerated, penis-shaped massive piece to make the model look male?

Please don't put words in my mouth. You sited that article as the be-all-end-all argument as to why those types of armor don't exist. I asked (and still haven't heard) what the author's qualifications were to write it. Then posited a reason that it might not be the be-all-end-all that you thought.

Yeah I think most people that frequent the forum realized a long time ago that almost every time a sentence starts with "So every..." it winds up being a strawman.

 mattyrm wrote:
Now, you and I both know that they are different in reality, because girls have different body armor in the military and you served in the USMC and I STRADDLE THE BATTLEFIELD LIKE A MIGHTY COLOSSUS, but if we are just discussing how it is represented on the tabletop, then the differences actually are negligible aren't they?

We're just getting around to this on this side of the pond, actually. Females have been wearing the 'male' plate carriers/vests since the start of the late unpleasantness, and we're finally issuing a 'female' version. The issue, of course, ain't the bewbage, but the fact that they're designed for the longer male torso and thus tend to either dig into the female's hips or jut up into the chin when mounted up.

Has the company that made Infinity ever said much about it?

I was looking through their website a couple of weeks ago and they're one of the few miniature companies that seem to have (in my mind) a sensible ratio of male to female minis. It might be only 1 in every 4-6, but you definitely notice the presence.

Admittedly, they do tend to suffer from the Hawkeye problem...

Alternatively, I'm wondering about the popularity of the Dreadball Void Sirens team, compared to the other season teams.

Truth be told, the Raging Heroes models seem a bit too stripperific to me.

... I don't get the hawkeye problem, trying to pose a male in a female sexy pose looks stupid because the bodies are different so is what is regarded as "sexy", I feel it fails to convey what they wanted to convey.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
... I don't get the hawkeye problem, trying to pose a male in a female sexy pose looks stupid because the bodies are different so is what is regarded as "sexy", I feel it fails to convey what they wanted to convey.

It's a feminist blog on tumblr, they typically miss the mark on a lot of things. Nothing new to see in that case.

I looked around for a bit and I kinda liked these. Can't help but think Wonder Woman would look better with red pants though.

I didn't like it to be honest, I understand the exercise but keeping the original costume is too problematic, they should try fully clothed and keeping the spirit and not the form of the original design.

Nobody wants to see a meh hero. She better be stacked, she better show leg and be in shape.

http://fattyamerican.com/fat-cosplay-girls/

Interesting that I'd just read this thread earlier, then, while going through a bunch of stuff that a friend gave me when he moved and had gotten out of the hobby, I found something I'd not even known I had. A nice, pristine, female Commissar.

Score!

shade1313 wrote:
Interesting that I'd just read this thread earlier, then, while going through a bunch of stuff that a friend gave me when he moved and had gotten out of the hobby, I found something I'd not even known I had. A nice, pristine, female Commissar.

Score!

What.

I am not persuaded the cheesecake raging heroes are going to resonate with a lot of female gamers. Women I have talked to like the wood elfs sculpts because they are pretty and feminine, over the top stuff that appeals to teenage boys is not all that appealing to them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grot 6 wrote:
Nobody wants to see a meh hero. She better be stacked, she better show leg and be in shape.

http://fattyamerican.com/fat-cosplay-girls/

So then, you linked to a picture of two over weight cos play women because you think their weight problem is entertaining in some way. You do realize this is a wargaming forum, right. Have you ever been to a tournament or in a hobby shop full of 40K gamers? What percentage of 40k players would you say are over weight? Obese even?

JWhex wrote:
I am not persuaded the cheesecake raging heroes are going to resonate with a lot of female gamers. Women I have talked to like the wood elfs sculpts because they are pretty and feminine, over the top stuff that appeals to teenage boys is not all that appealing to them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grot 6 wrote:
Nobody wants to see a meh hero. She better be stacked, she better show leg and be in shape.

http://fattyamerican.com/fat-cosplay-girls/

So then, you linked to a picture of two over weight cos play women because you think their weight problem is entertaining in some way. You do realize this is a wargaming forum, right. Have you ever been to a tournament or in a hobby shop full of 40K gamers? What percentage of 40k players would you say are over weight? Obese even?

So I made these two examples up now? They aren't real? Entertaining as in- Argue about semantics, or Entertain because art doesn't imitate life?

Percentages of what sells is what you really need to cry me a river over. Cheesecake= $$$$. THAT is the point. No one is going to buy miniatures of my two stellar examples, so don't take this in any other direction and cry foul like you have an issue. YOU being clever made my point about the look of real people as opposed to figures, exactly.

 Enigwolf wrote:

shade1313 wrote:
Interesting that I'd just read this thread earlier, then, while going through a bunch of stuff that a friend gave me when he moved and had gotten out of the hobby, I found something I'd not even known I had. A nice, pristine, female Commissar.

Score!

What.

I'm just not sure which IG army to paint her up for. I don't want to alter her to fit into the Renegade/Chaos IG army, she lacks the gasmask for DKoK, and as it stands, she'd be the sole Commissar in my Elysians.

 Grot 6 wrote:


Percentages of what sells is what you really need to cry me a river over. Cheesecake= $$$$. THAT is the point.

Cheesecake may = $$$$, but that doesn't mean GW or PP should alter their business model to sell cheesecake, especially since their audience includes kids. PP has very reasonable female models, and outside GW's daemonetts (which I have seen banned in stores due to complaints) the female models GW makes are also basic.

People claim anyone not making female rank and file is leaving money on the table, but I do not think Hasslefree miniatures will sell 400k of their realistic rank and file. People apparently want T&A with absurd stripper poses and that is best monopolized on by fringe specialty mini makers, not companies trying to produce a core line of miniatures for customers which include kids.

JWhex wrote:

So then, you linked to a picture of two over weight cos play women because you think their weight problem is entertaining in some way. You do realize this is a wargaming forum, right. Have you ever been to a tournament or in a hobby shop full of 40K gamers? What percentage of 40k players would you say are over weight? Obese even?

The particular shops I go to with 40k gamers have very few obese people. Though that of course does not preclude them from ridicule as well. Obesity in general is a bad thing but fun to make jokes about.

nkelsch wrote:

 Grot 6 wrote:


Percentages of what sells is what you really need to cry me a river over. Cheesecake= $$$$. THAT is the point.

Cheesecake may = $$$$, but that doesn't mean GW or PP should alter their business model to sell cheesecake, especially since their audience includes kids. PP has very reasonable female models, and outside GW's daemonetts (which I have seen banned in stores due to complaints) the female models GW makes are also basic.

People claim anyone not making female rank and file is leaving money on the table, but I do not think Hasslefree miniatures will sell 400k of their realistic rank and file. People apparently want T&A with absurd stripper poses and that is best monopolized on by fringe specialty mini makers, not companies trying to produce a core line of miniatures for customers which include kids.

Yes, but this is where the conversation is going to leave the realms of gaming and go into the heady realm of philosophy. I mean, I think that the current GW models are fine, but who are you, or militant feminists to decide exactly what should and shouldn't be sold in stores?

I mean, I don't buy cheesy baps out models, I only play SM, and I don't like the look of the slutty models, I'm so fond of the fluff, I like the soldiers to look like proper gritty, grimy, fighting women. Such as Mira in SM, although, she was a veteran, Id have made her a bit uglier and added a few scars personally, but hey.. each to their own surely?

On this topic, and innumerable other ones, I absolutely hate the holier than thou attitude of many people in society. Be it militant feminists, gay rights campaigners, or anything else. I certainly believe that women should be more empowered, and that we should probably go for a middle ground between ridiculous dress like a post box militant Islam and ridiculous FHM boobs out all over the place Western society, but I don't think that its a black and white issue, or that blokes who like to read FHM (I would rather read a toothpaste tube frankly) are "wrong" or should be purged from the earth.

Different strokes for different folks, I certainly don't want a commissar in suspenders, but Jesus, its hardly pronography is it? Nobody is talking about Brother Vinnis truly ridiculous "Ukrainian slave girl" here, its just, sexy birds in knickers and unzipped jackets and that isn't it?

I'm curious, do you agree with this lass?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22678149

 mattyrm wrote:

I'm curious, do you agree with this lass?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22678149

I personally think she's a nutcase. I also don't personally believe that I, or anyone else, has the right to interfere with someone saying something that I may find offensive or objectionable. I'm not fond of the notion that people have a right to be protected from things that offend them.

 mattyrm wrote:

Yes, but this is where the conversation is going to leave the realms of gaming and go into the heady realm of philosophy. I mean, I think that the current GW models are fine, but who are you, or militant feminists to decide exactly what should and shouldn't be sold in stores?

I don't have a problem with them existing, but I do not think it is 'wise' for companies making mainstream models for an audience which includes kids to expand their universe to 'cheesecake' or 'pornographic' models simply because money can be possibly made there. It isn't smart business. Of all GW's models, the bare-chested human-looking daemonettes with nipples crossed a line in our area which made stores take action. The newer ones are less human, less realistic, void of exposed nipples and have a more abstract daemonic look which is more reasonable for a model line who includes kids and teens. GW got real feedback about it, and I think it is interesting as it was referred to as GW's *ONLY* sexy model they have ever made... That is kinda the point. GW doesn't make sexy models. And consumers give retailers feedback who give companies feedback.

I think that it is fine if people want to make and buy models, I just disagree that it should be forced into mainstream model lines or manufacturers. I think a large number of the Raging heroes models are absurd for no reason. Their newest unlock is an amazingly cool tank-hunter, armor clad female in a reasonable pose with awesome weapons... And a pointlessly absurd 'bewbplate' for no reason. If that was just a featureless armor plate, the model would still be feminine and cool, but the need for bewbplate ruins the model.

Some people like it, more power to them. I just don't agree that GW or PP need to learn a lesson from this KS and instantly release a line of cheesecake female models to please a select group of adults who can simply go elsewhere to get what they want.

nkelsch wrote:
and I think it is interesting as it was referred to as GW's *ONLY* sexy model they have ever made...

The slave girls from the 3rd edition Asdrubael Vect model beg to differ.

As for the lady suing about magazines... I don't know the laws in the UK, if she has legal ground, it is up for her to make a case in court.

In the US, those magazines already have to come bagged with a black cover to hide the cover and block access to the interior. So the law already requires pornographic materials to be censored if displayed or sold in stores. People get what they want, people who don't want to be exposed to it, are not, the world keeps spinning.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

shade1313 wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
and I think it is interesting as it was referred to as GW's *ONLY* sexy model they have ever made...

The slave girls from the 3rd edition Asdrubael Vect model beg to differ.

Just repeating what someone in the thread stated and it happens to be the model which retailers declined to stock and didn't allow in stores and have since been re-sculpted into a less provocative design.

nkelsch wrote:
As for the lady suing about magazines... I don't know the laws in the UK, if she has legal ground, it is up for her to make a case in court.

In the US, those magazines already have to come bagged with a black cover to hide the cover and block access to the interior. So the law already requires pornographic materials to be censored if displayed or sold in stores. People get what they want, people who don't want to be exposed to it, are not, the world keeps spinning.

Yeah you're getting lads mags confused with porn mate, en easy mistake though obviously.

In Britain, a "lads mag" is like FHM or Maxim or something, its nothing like porn, its just birds in bikinis and fashion and sport and gak. The porn is already sold the same way in the UK as it is in the US.

Its why I take issue with her, its fine to say that about porn, but not women in bikinis. How is showing a really attractive woman in a bikini making "women" sex objects? Its just showing sexy people as sex objects.. which they are!

If you are very sexy, then you are surely by definition a sex object to people that find your sex attractive? I mean, you are loads of other things as well.. a father, a mother, a butcher, a baker, a good or bad driver, but you are an object of lust to people that find you attractive, it just seems a really silly thing to say, and I don't think womens mags with blokes with six packs on the cover makes me feel like "men" are all sex objects either.

There's female Eldar guardians without over-exaggerated features (and because I have many of the old Guardian+metal bits Dire Avengers, many of my Dire Avengers are female too). And Howling Banshees... they don't have high heels or exposed T&A.

Anyone here posting in this thread a woman?

Widdershinz wrote:
Anyone here posting in this thread a woman?

Are you asking if there are women posting in this thread, or whether there are people pretending to be women?

 Monster Rain wrote:

Widdershinz wrote:
Anyone here posting in this thread a woman?

Are you asking if there are women posting in this thread, or whether there are people pretending to be women?

Wait... there are women using the internet?!!!

I am not putting in for this Kickstarter, but I know two female gamers that are, so... I dunno.

As long as they don't have high heels then I am okay with it. I hate freakin' high heels on combat minis....

The Auld Grump

Editing first part for the Chillax. Second part stays.

Is this really what get's you guys up in arms? Cheesecake?

First world problems...

 Breotan wrote:
I want to punch this entire discussion thread in the face. Is this really what get's you guys up in arms? Cheesecake?

First world problems...

First world problems? First world problems are agonizing over losing weight meanwhile wondering which large value meal from McDonald's you want next right after you boycott Walmart for uncompetitive wages while wearing made in third world nation clothes.

 Breotan wrote:
I want to punch this entire discussion thread in the face. Is this really what get's you guys up in arms? Cheesecake?

First world problems...

So there is no point in discussions pretty much anything because there is genocide in Africa? As long as there is kids dying in the street from Aids somewhere in the world there is no reason to discuss miniatures or opinions on them?

Yakface should know this info so he can shut down dakkadakka immediately and donate every penny used to run this server to solve real problems.

WarOne, I'm pretty sure arguing sexism in regards to tiny toy soldiers qualifies as First World Problems.