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Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote: That is quite the fluff I have to say. Couple of things though;
How did the Flayed Ones develop seen as I doubt they would be sanctioned by Crons and were (according to v1.0 fluff) made by a destroyed Ctan cursing them)?
What became of Szareh and the Triarch? Do they serve the Ctan or are they independent of them?
Flayed Ones I'm thinking would be more like the Oldcron Flayed Ones which, imo, are so much better than the current rendition (simply put, driven insane to be of the living again rather than curse of the robot zombies)
I think that it'd be amusing for the Triarch to have split up and each of the three to now lead one of the three distinctive factions that have developed.
Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote: The reason is there are some units that, quite simply, suck. And the only units that work work when spammed (NS, Wraiths, Scarabs/Spyders, AB etcetcetc). So what we want to do is balance out the book to stop the army becoming predictable and spammy, as well as sort out GW's nightmare pricings (AB is way too cheap and Destroyers too much, to name just a few). There are bits that need to change, so we just want to have a go. If you want to judge it Eiluj, stop us going OTT on it do so seen as you feel crons don't really need it you can keep us on a leash, feel free.
Its a pity a few of your units "suck". Guess it's the only codex with a wasted FOC slot...
Seriously?
Frankly, I believe that all the units within all codices should be viable and balanced. This is just an attempt on Crons.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/08 15:28:13
Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.
"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB
RULES
Undying Servitude - if HQ present in unit, that unit may reroll failed RP and LoS rolls.
Phaeron – The rule no longer grants Relentless. Instead, the Warlord may pick his Warlord trait.
WARGEAR
Heat Blaster - lower strength version of the Heat Ray. 12" S7 AP2 Heavy 1 Melta/Template S5 AP4 Heavy 1.
Gravity Stabilizers - Grants Relentless.
Gauntlet of Flame - R: Template S:4 AP:5 Type: Assault 1, Torrent
Mindshackle Scarabs - increase price (20 points). LD test on only 2D6, but reroll successful passes.
Staff of Light – This is uses the following profiles:
R:18" S:5 AP:3 Type: Assault 3
R:- S:User AP:3 Type: Melee, Two Handed
WARLORD TRAITS
Favored of the Triarch – Triarch Praetorians are scoring. Triarch Stalkers may be taken as both Elite and Heavy Support options.
Unyeilding Command – The Warlord and any unit within 12” gains the Stubborn rule.
Conqueror of Old – The Warlord and any unit within 12” gains the Crusader rule
Ancient Hatred – The army may not have any C’tan Shards. A single non-vehicle Elite unit may be as a Troop.
A Use for the Conquered – The army may take C’tan Shards as both Elite and Heavy Support options.
Always a Plan in Motion – You may re-roll any reserve roll. In addition, all models that can outflank gain the Acute Senses rule.
HQ
Spoiler:
Imotekh the Stormlord
Price: 225
Stats: WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W3 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv 2+
Equip: Remove Bloodswarm Nano-Scarabs (why, of all HQ, did HE have them?), Staff of the Destroyer is also an AP1 Power Axe
Rules: Same
Other:
Nemesor Zahndrekh
Price: Same
Stats: Same
Equip: Same
Rules: Same
Other: Take out Hit and Run on the list of rules he can give to friendly units and replace it with Crusader and add Interceptor to the list.
Vargard Obyron
Price: same
Stats: same
Equip: same
Rules: same
Other: same
Illuminor Szeras
Price: Same
Stats: Same
Equip: Same
Rules: Warrior/Immortal upgrades chosen, rather than randomly decided.
Other: Same
Orikan the Diviner
Price: 170
Stats: same
Equip: include Chronometron how is it the greatest Chronomancer in the universe doesn’t carry a Chronometron?) – this may be to prevent insane Empowered shenanigans
Rules: same
Other: how is it the greatest Chronomancer in the universe doesn’t carry a Chronometron?) – this may be to prevent insane Empowered shenanigans, cost is adjusted to include those shenanigans
Anrakyr the Traveler
Price: same
Stats: same
Equip: same
Rules: Mind in the Machine may be used from any open-topped vehicle.
Other: Phyrrian Eternals – No longer Counter-Attack and Furious Charge, instead grants Fearless and Crusader.
Trazyn the Infinite
Price: Same
Stats: Same
Equip: Tesseract Labyrinth (... you would think he would already carry one, really)
Rules: Same
Other: Empathic Obliterator is AP3
Sahtah the Enfleshed (Flayer Overlord)
Price: 140
Stats: WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W3 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv 3+
Equip: Bloodswarm Nano-scarabs (Change so that marked unit is chosen by player, not randomly assigned).
Rules: Rending, Shred, Fearless, Fear
Other: Flayed Ones he joins Gain the Crusader rule. No Crypteks can be in Royal Court if Sahtah is your Warlord, only Lords (Lords can join units of Flayed Ones).
Executioner Ezandrakh (Destroyer Overlord)
Price: 190
Stats: WS4 BS4 S5 T6 W4 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv 2+
Equip: Red Harvester (Warscythe with Fleshbane instead of Armorbane). Gaze of Flame, Sempiternal Weave
Rules: Preferred Enemy (EVERYTHING!), Hatred (Infantry), Rage
Other: Destroyers as troops. Option to include up to two Destroyers as Bodyguards. These are normal destroyers and can choose between two Hyperphase Swords or a Warscythe, but do not take up any FOC slot.
Szarekh, the Silent King (he’s a pacifist Overlord)
Price: 200
Stats: WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W4 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv 2+
Equip: The Silence (CCW/flame template shooting weapon. models hit (not just wounded) must pass a LD test or suffer from reduced stats (same effect as Chrono-tek’s staff). When Szarekh’s unit is assaulted, assaulting unit must take LD test with +D3 to score. If LD test failed, assault auto fails), Crown of Command (units he joins get +1 to rolls made with Undying Servitude),
Rules: Grants “Undying Servitude” to units he joins. “Order Above All Else” (the only Harbingers allowed in Szarekh’s Royal Court are Harbinger of Order. Generic Crypteks and Lords are fine, too). “The Final Word” (when Szarekh loses his final wound and fails to Resurrect, place a large blast template over his Reanimation marker. All models under the template must take a strength test. Models who fail the strength test are removed as a casualty, with no saves of any kind allowed).
Other: Praetorians as troops.
Generic Overlord
Price: 80
Stats: Same
Equip: Same
Rules: Same
Other: May be upgraded to Lord of the Triarch for 20 points – in addition to making Triarch Praetorians troops, the Overlord gains a Rod of Convent and his unit type becomes Jump Infantry.
Destroyer Lord
Price: 120
Stats: Same
Equip: Same
Rules: Same
Other: Same
ROYAL COURT
Spoiler:
Lord
Price: 35
Stats: WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W2 I2 A2 Ld10 Sv 3+
Equip: Same
Rules: Same
Other: Same
Generic Cryptek
Price: 25
Stats: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I2 A1 Ld10 Sv 3+
Equip: Same
Rules: Same
Other: Same
Harbinger of Destruction
Price:
Stats:
Equip:
Rules:
Other:
Harbinger of Transmogrification
Price:
Stats:
Equip:
Rules:
Other:
Harbinger of the Storm
Price:
Stats:
Equip:
Rules:
Other:
Harbinger of Eternity
Price:
Stats:
Equip: Staff should be shooting weapon as well as CCW .
Rules:
Other:
Harbinger of Despair
Price:
Stats:
Equip:
Rules:
Other:
Harbinger of Order
Price: +15 to Cryptek
Stats: See Cryptek
Equip: Gloom Prism. Rod of Absolution (shooting weapon with Exile Ray flame template). Beacon of Precision (units aiming to deep strike within 6” of Order-tek do not scatter).
Rules: None
Other: None
TRANSPORT
Spoiler:
Catacomb Command Barge
Price: 75
Stats: Same
Equip: Same
Rules: Same
Other: Same
Ghost Ark
Price: Decrease (100 points)
Stats: Increase carrying capacity to 12.
Equip: Remove Repair Barge ability as standard. Include Repair Barge as purchasable equipment upgrade (would then re-restrict occupants to only Warriors and HQ).
Rules:N/A
Other: Remove “Warriors & HQ only” occupant restriction (allowing other units to take it would give ‘Crons access to a secondary transport option, thus reducing reliance on Nightscythes. Because it is option topped, that would also mean models can assault from it, meaning Lychguard might become useful)
Night Scythe
Price: Increase (125 points)
Stats: Same
Equip: Same
Rules: Same – Still the best transport in the game. No reason to add arbitrary restrictions.
Other: Same
TROOPS
Spoiler:
No changes needed for Warriors or Immortals
Flayed Ones
Price: 15 points
Stats: Same
Equip: None
Rules: Fear, Shred, Fearless, Infiltrate, Reanimation Protocols, Blood Strike – Flayed Ones have the Deep Strike rule and may assault the same turn they come in from Reserves, but it is a disordered charge.
Other: Same
ELITES
Spoiler:
Deathmarks
Price: N/A
Stats: N/A
Equip: N/A
Rules: Ethereal Interception to grant Interceptor rule as well (duh).
Other: N/A
Lychguard
Price: Increase (45 points)
Stats: WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W1 I2 A2 Ld10 Sv 3+
Equip: Add the following to the list of upgrades
May replace Warscythe with up to two of the following. The unit may take any combination:
Hyperphase Sword - Free
Hyperphase Axe (Power Axe) - Free
Dispersion Shield – 10 points
May take Sempiternal Weave for 10 points
Rules: give “Undying Servitude” and Unswerving Loyalty – If the Warlord is in a unit of Lychguard, they automatically pass Look Out Sir! rolls.
Other: Able to mix and match wargear instead of being restricted to entire unit being equipped with exact same weapons. Include ability to equip two CCWs.
Triarch Praetorians
Price: Same
Stats: WS5 BS4 S5 T5 W1 I2 A2 Ld10 Sv 3+
Equip: Rod of covenant loses Unwieldy
Rules: Interdiction - Triarch Praetorians lie in wait, hovering above a battle until the time is right. Triarch Praetorians always start the game in reserve, unless the Praetorians are part of the Warlord's unit. They may come in from Reserves on turn one.
Other: They didn't sleep during the eons, earning them WS5, and their cost justifies removing unwieldy and adding another attack.
C'tan Shards
Price: Decrease (160 points)
Stats: N/A (see below)
Equip: Change to powers are as follows. A C’tan Shard must pick at least one power and may have up to three:
Entropic Touch – Close combat attacks have the Rending and Entropic Touch rules.
Gaze of Death – Same
Grand Illusion – Same
Lord of Fire – Increase range to 18”
Moulder of Worlds – Complete change – The C’tan reshapes the world as it sees fit, lowering hills and moving reality to disorient its foes. Once per game, the C’tan may roll a D3. It may then move that many pieces of terrain up to 3” in any direction. If any models are in the way, move them; they are not killed, simply shaken as they earth moves under their feet.
Pyreshards – Uses the following profile: R:18” S:4 AP:- Type: Assault 10
Sentient Singularity – Any model that attempts to Deep Strike within 6” of the C’tan automatically mishaps. Any enemy vehicle that attempts to move at all within 6” of the C’tan takes a Dangerous Terrain test. Any enemy non-vehicle models that attempt to move within 6” of the C’tan must take a Toughness test or be removed from play with no armor saves allowed.
Swarm of Spirit Dust – The C’tan gains Assault and Defensive Grenades as well as the Shrouded rule. At the beginning of each Fight sub-phase, each unit in combat with the C’tan Shard must take a Blind test.
Time’s Arrow – Same
Transdimensional Thunderbolt – R:24” S:7 AP:- Type: Assault 4, Tesla, Arc
Eternal Form – 50 points - The C’tan gains a 2+ Armor save and 3+ Invulnerable save.
Phaseblade – 25 points – This is a close combat weapon that uses the following profile: R:- S:User AP:1 Type: Melee, Instant Death. Any successful invulnerable saves taken against wounds caused by this weapon must be re-rolled.
Rules: Poisoned weapons or weapons that wound on a flat D6 roll (such as snipers) only wound on a 6.
Other: Must choose one of the following:
Living Adamantine – C’tan Shard becomes S8, T8, and I3
Living Quicksilver – C’tan Shard becomes T6 and I5 and becomes a Jump Monstrous Creature
Triarch Stalker
Price: 140
Stats: Same
Equip: Hyperphase Blades – These are two Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons.
Rules:
Other: Remove the rider on the top of physical model and replace with guns, instead of having them underneath.
FAST ATTACK
Spoiler:
Canoptek Wraiths
Price: 30
Stats: N/A
Equip: On the Option list, replace Particle Caster with Hyperphase Sword and Transdimensional Beamer with Phase Shifter.
Rules: N/A
Other: N/A
Tomb Blades
Price: N/A
Stats: N/A
Equip: One Tomb Blade may take a Heat Blaster for 10 points
Up to three Tomb Blades may take a Transdimensional Beamer for 10 points
Rules: N/A
Other: N/A
Destroyers
Price: Decrease (35pts)
Stats: Destroyer is the same
Heavy Destroyer: WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W1 I2 A2 Ld10 Sv 3+
Equip: Add the following to the Option list:
A Destroyer may replace its Gauss Cannon with
Tesla Cannon – Free
Hyperphase Sword – Free
Warscythe – 10 points
OR
Heavy Destroyer upgrade is 10 points. Any Heavy Destroyer may take one of the following:
Two Hyperphase Swords – 5 points
Heavy Gauss cannon – 10 points
Warscythe – 10 points
Tesla Destructor – 15 points
Gravity Stabilizers – 10 points
Any combination of the above option may be used in a single unit. A unit may have both Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers in it.
Rules: N/A
Other: N/A
HEAVY SUPPORT
Spoiler:
Annihilation Barge
Price: N/A (you’ll see why no decrease in a second)
Stats: N/A
Equip: Remove Tesla Destructors as standard, replace with twin linked Gauss Cannons. Can be swapped for twin linked Tesla Cannons, or upgraded to twin linked Tesla Destructors or twin linked Heavy Gauss Cannons.
Rules: N/A
Other: N/A
Doomsday Ark
Price: Decrease (160)
Stats: N/A
Equip: A Shadowloom as purchased for 10 points
Rules: N/A
Other: N/A
Doom Scythe
Price: Decrease (150 points)
Stats: N/A
Equip: Remove Tesla Destructors as standard, replace with twin linked Gauss Cannons. Can swap for twin linked Tesla Cannons for free or upgrade to twin linked Tesla Destructors for +15 points
Rules: N/A
Other: N/A
Monolith
Price: Decrease (180 points)
Stats: N/A
Equip: N/A
Rules: Massive – The Monolith never rolls on the mishap table. Instead, if the Monolith scatters onto an enemy unit or terrain, reduce the scatter by the shortest amount possible to prevent it from doing so.
Other: N/A
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/09 01:56:43
Now, I suppose we can use the warp void effect on the Cryptek of Order (TM CthuluIsSpy)
Nullification Sphere 10pts - DtW tests for all units within 18" of the bearer may be rerolled. In addition, models with the demonic special rule must also reroll their invulnerable saves.
Mind Breaker: 25pts - This wargear is used in the shooting phase. A unit with the daemonic special rule or one that is capable of psychic powers within 24" is targeted. It must immediately take a leadership test on 3D6. For every point it fails by, it takes a wound with no saves of any kind allowed. Vehicles are treated as having LD10
Rod of the Void - A psyker who is hit is forced to take a leadership test. If failed, he takes perils.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/08 19:48:13
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
As far as fixing some of the already broken units.
I think we should start at the basic weapons, as the Warscythe is just such a no brainer.
Staff of Light- Increase Range to 18' Counts as a regular Close combat weapon. Weapon purchases do not replace the Staff of light, unless you choose too. This will allow Lords/Overlords to wield two weapons.
Void Blade-Rends on a to wound roll of 5 or 6. Specialist Weapon.
Paired Voidblades- Grants Shred.
Gauntlet of Flame- Give the flamer the Torrent profile.
Paired GOF- Overwatch D6+1.
Hyperphase Sword- Free Upgrade.
Paired- grants +2 bonus attacks, instead of the normal +1
Warscythe-Stays the same, but is two handed and replaces all other weapon choices. So you can't have it, and a staff of light, etc etc.
Tesla Weapons- Change the 6 to hit, to only add one additional hit. Grant a special "Overload" rule. When this is used, the Tesla weapon may be fired as a Template, and may be used in overwatch as a flamer. If used this way, the weapon does not benefit from the Tesla special rule during the next shooting phase.
Lychguard-Decrease points cost by 5 points. Giving these guys a 2+ is too much, as T5+RP+2+ is just way to durable. Decreasing their points is a good start, and increasing their WS+1. That would make them excellent at CC. I'd also make the Hyperphase Sword/Shield combo a free upgrade, and have the ability to swap out on a per model basis.
Triarch Praetorians- With the better weapon upgrades, all these guys need is +1 Base attack.
Triarch Stalker- Major points decrease, probably 50 points. All weapon upgrades free.
C'tan- 2+ armor save. Invul stays the same. T stays the same. Will post new powers later.
Flayed Ones-Give them Fear, and the ability to purchase an upgrade for the unit, that grants Shred on the first round of combat. May be taken as troops.
Warriors-Fine as is
Immortals-Fine
Night Scythe- Points increase to 135
Ghost Ark-decreased to 100 points.
CCB-Decreased to 70 points.
Scarabs-Fine as is
Wraiths-+5 PPM.
Tomb Blades- 3+ armor save standard. +2 points increase
Destroyers- Heavy Destroyer upgrade decreased by 10 points. May replace all destroyers with Heavy Destroyers.
Monolith- Particle Whip Strength 9 AP 1, Ordnance. Flux Arcs may always fire at full BS, and each one may fire at a different target than any other weapon on the Monolith. Deepstrike Protection. The most you can benefit is +1 on the vehicle damage chart(IE AP1 will always be downgraded to +1 instead of +2 on the chart) +35 points base.
Spyders- Fine as is
Doom Scythe-Fine
Annihilation Barge-+35 point increase.
Doomsday Ark- Can move and fire the Strength 9 AP1 Large blast. If Stationary, the weapon becomes Strength 10 AP 1 Large blast, Ordinance.
McNinja wrote: Sasori have you checked my post above out yet? I'm going to add some of your ideas to that post.
Yeah, Help yourself.
C'tan Statline- Same as now, except it has a 2+ save, and it's base cost increased to 190.
May take the following upgrade, in addition to up to 3 powers.
Fragment of a God- Grants Fleet, Rampage, and Rage. 40 points.
Powers:
Void Dragon Powers
Entropic Strike- Grants entropic Strike to both the melee, and ranged weapons of the C'tan 5 points
Infernal Machines- All Canoptek and Vehicle units within 6' of the C'tan gain IWND. 15 points
Nightbringer
Gaze of Death-35 points
Reapers Blade- Successful Invulnerable saves must be rerolled, in close combat against a C'tan with this upgrade. 50 points
Outsider
Aura of Insanity- All enemy models within 12 have -1 LD. In addition, they use the lowest leadership in their unit, instead of the highest. 25 points
Madness- Fired as a shooting attack. If it hits, the Unit is stripped of the following special rules: ATSNKF, Fearless. In addition ,they do not benefit from any rules that would allow them to auto-pass any type of leadership test. 40 points
Deciver-
Grand Illusion- Same
Juxtapose- in any assault phase (Including the enemies) A C'tan wielding this power, may choose to immediately leave combat.It must pass a LD test. If it does so It may then move 2D6. It is allowed to make a charge, with this movement, but not on the same unit it just left combat with. 35 points
The Shaper
Writhing Worldscape- Roll a D6. on a 4+ the entire board counts as dangerous terrain for the enemy, until the following turn. 40 points
Sentient Singularity- Units may fire normal BS at any flyer, that is within 12' of a C'tan with this upgrade. 15 points
The Burning One
Shield of Flames- All models (Friend or Foe) In base contact with a C'tan with this upgrade, take an Automatic Strength 6 AP3 Hit, during each round of close combat. 15 points
Pyreshards- 36 range, Strength 6, AP4, Assault 6, Soul Blaze- 15
McNinja imo some of those traits can't work, seen as 1 forces you to remove Ctan if they are in your list. Making certain units troops may also be a dud point. I'd make Favoured of the Triarch something like; The Triarch have given their support to the Warlord, suggesting that he is fated to succeed. The Warlord may re-roll one dice per phase per turn to represent this. Ancient Hatred could be, well, Hatred, but maybe also PE (only applies to him not his unit) Use for the Conquered; The Warlord has unlocked a small portion of power from a caged Ctan. He has +1WS, BS or I (roll a D3 to decide). However, this power was not taken with consent of the Ctan, and so at the end of each game turn after the first roll a D6. On a 1, the power fades and the Warlord returns to normal.
Also I think Szareh is underpriced, and Flayed Ones should be upgraded to have fear. We also need to assign Traits to the named HQs
Automatically Appended Next Post: Sasori I like your thinking on wargear but what about pricing? Surely with all the buffs the weapons will become more expensive. I also like what you've done with Tesla. However, I think the Stalker should be about 100pts not 50 (or have I read that wrong?) and that the Monolith was overpriced for v1.0 so minor buffs and a price rocket worries me
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/06/09 08:33:00
"The galaxy knelt before us once, and it will do so again" "'Anton, you could not outsmart that rock'
'I'm still smarter than the Imperial Guard'"
Some of these things are looking pretty good, but just a reminder:
We're not just balancing the codex in a vacuum, we've gotta keep the balance with the other codecies in mind.
Certain units need to be nerfed because they are TOO good as they are, especially when compared to things available to other races. We can't just have the entire book full of nothing but the greatest stuff ever.
So maybe, in addition to, "does changing this make it better?", we need to also ask, "does changing this make it better than something equivalent from another codex?"
If the answer is yes, maybe we should rethink some of the changes.
Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote: McNinja imo some of those traits can't work, seen as 1 forces you to remove Ctan if they are in your list. Making certain units troops may also be a dud point. I'd make Favoured of the Triarch something like; The Triarch have given their support to the Warlord, suggesting that he is fated to succeed. The Warlord may re-roll one dice per phase per turn to represent this.
Ancient Hatred could be, well, Hatred, but maybe also PE (only applies to him not his unit)
Use for the Conquered; The Warlord has unlocked a small portion of power from a caged Ctan. He has +1WS, BS or I (roll a D3 to decide). However, this power was not taken with consent of the Ctan, and so at the end of each game turn after the first roll a D6. On a 1, the power fades and the Warlord returns to normal.
Also I think Szareh is underpriced, and Flayed Ones should be upgraded to have fear. We also need to assign Traits to the named HQs
Automatically Appended Next Post: Sasori I like your thinking on wargear but what about pricing? Surely with all the buffs the weapons will become more expensive. I also like what you've done with Tesla. However, I think the Stalker should be about 100pts not 50 (or have I read that wrong?) and that the Monolith was overpriced for v1.0 so minor buffs and a price rocket worries me
The Stalker only took a 50 point decrease, so it would be 110 points
Well, the Phaeron in the post I made fixes the assigning traits problem for those HQs with Phaeron.
RULES Undying Servitude - if HQ present in unit, that unit may reroll failed RP and LoS rolls. Phaeron – The rule no longer grants Relentless. Instead, the Warlord may pick his Warlord trait.
WARGEAR Heat Blaster - lower strength version of the Heat Ray. 12" S7 AP1 Heavy 1 Melta/Template S5 AP4 Heavy 1. Gravity Stabilizers - Grants Relentless. Gauntlet of Flame - R: Template S:4 AP:5 Type: Assault 1, Torrent Mindshackle Scarabs - increase price (20 points). LD test on only 2D6, but reroll successful passes. Staff of Light – This is uses the following profiles: R:18" S:5 AP:3 Type: Assault 3 R:- S:User AP:3 Type: Melee, Two Handed Void Blade-Rends on a to wound roll of 5 or 6. Specialist Weapon. Paired Voidblades- Grants Shred. Gauntlet of Flame- Give the flamer the Torrent profile. Paired GOF- Overwatch D6+1. Hyperphase Sword- Free Upgrade. Paired- grants +2 bonus attacks, instead of the normal +1
WARLORD TRAITS Favored of the Triarch – Triarch Praetorians are scoring. Unyeilding Command – The Warlord and any unit within 12” gains the Stubborn rule. Conqueror of Old – The Warlord and any unit within 12” gains the Crusader rule Eternal Guardians – If the Warlord joins a unit of Lychguard, they gain +1 to any Reanimation Protocol rolls. This does not stack with the bonus from Resurrection Orbs. A Use for the Conquered – The Warlord has found a better use for the C’tan Shards –siphoning their power. Once, at the start of the game, roll a D3. The Warlord adds that much to his WS, I, and A. At the beginning of every game turn, roll a D6; on a roll of 1, the powers fade and cannot be regained. Always a Plan in Motion – You may re-roll any reserve roll. In addition, all models that can outflank gain the Acute Senses rule.
HQ
Spoiler:
Imotekh the Stormlord Price: 225 Stats: WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W3 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv 2+ Equip: Remove Bloodswarm Nano-Scarabs (why, of all HQ, did HE have them?), Staff of the Destroyer is also an AP1 Power Axe Rules: Same Other: Nemesor Zahndrekh Price: Same Stats: Same Equip: Same Rules: Same Other: Take out Hit and Run on the list of rules he can give to friendly units and replace it with Crusader and add Interceptor to the list. Vargard Obyron Price: same Stats: same Equip: same Rules: same Other: same
Illuminor Szeras Price: Same Stats: Same Equip: Same Rules: Warrior/Immortal upgrades chosen, rather than randomly decided. Other: Same
Orikan the Diviner Price: 170 Stats: same Equip: include Chronometron how is it the greatest Chronomancer in the universe doesn’t carry a Chronometron?) – this may be to prevent insane Empowered shenanigans Rules: same Other: how is it the greatest Chronomancer in the universe doesn’t carry a Chronometron?) – this may be to prevent insane Empowered shenanigans, cost is adjusted to include those shenanigans
Anrakyr the Traveler Price: same Stats: same Equip: same Rules: Mind in the Machine may be used from any open-topped vehicle. Other: Phyrrian Eternals – No longer Counter-Attack and Furious Charge, instead grants Fearless and Crusader.
Trazyn the Infinite Price: Same Stats: Same Equip: Tesseract Labyrinth (... you would think he would already carry one, really) Rules: Same Other: Empathic Obliterator is AP3
Sahtah the Enfleshed (Flayer Overlord) Price: 140 Stats: WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W3 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv 3+ Equip: Bloodswarm Nano-scarabs (Change so that marked unit is chosen by player, not randomly assigned). Rules: Rending, Shred, Fearless, Fear Other: Flayed Ones he joins Gain the Crusader rule. No Crypteks can be in Royal Court if Sahtah is your Warlord, only Lords (Lords can join units of Flayed Ones).
Executioner Ezandrakh (Destroyer Overlord) Price: 190 Stats: WS4 BS4 S5 T6 W4 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv 2+ Equip: Red Harvester (Warscythe with Fleshbane instead of Armorbane). Gaze of Flame, Sempiternal Weave Rules: Preferred Enemy (EVERYTHING!), Hatred (Infantry), Rage Other: Destroyers as troops. Option to include up to two Destroyers as Bodyguards. These are normal destroyers and can choose between two Hyperphase Swords or a Warscythe, but do not take up any FOC slot.
Szarekh, the Silent King (he’s a pacifist Overlord) Price: 200 Stats: WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W4 I2 A3 Ld10 Sv 2+ Equip: The Silence (CCW/flame template shooting weapon. models hit (not just wounded) must pass a LD test or suffer from reduced stats (same effect as Chrono-tek’s staff). When Szarekh’s unit is assaulted, assaulting unit must take LD test with +D3 to score. If LD test failed, assault auto fails), Crown of Command (units he joins get +1 to rolls made with Undying Servitude), Rules: Grants “Undying Servitude” to units he joins. “Order Above All Else” (the only Harbingers allowed in Szarekh’s Royal Court are Harbinger of Order. Generic Crypteks and Lords are fine, too). “The Final Word” (when Szarekh loses his final wound and fails to Resurrect, place a large blast template over his Reanimation marker. All models under the template must take a strength test. Models who fail the strength test are removed as a casualty, with no saves of any kind allowed). Other: Praetorians as troops.
Generic Overlord Price: 80 Stats: Same Equip:May be upgraded to Phaeron for 20 points May replace the Staff of Light with up to two of the following: Hyperphase Sword – Free Voidblade – 5 points Or may replace it with a Warscythe for 15 points Rules: Same Other: May be upgraded to Lord of the Triarch for 20 points – in addition to making Triarch Praetorians troops, the Overlord gains a Rod of Convent and his unit type becomes Jump Infantry.
Destroyer Lord Price: 120 Stats: Same Equip: Same Rules: Same Other: Same
ROYAL COURT
Spoiler:
Lord Price: 35 Stats: WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W2 I2 A2 Ld10 Sv 3+ Equip: Same Rules: Same Other: Same
Generic Cryptek Price: 25 Stats: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I2 A1 Ld10 Sv 3+ Equip: Same Rules: Same Other: Same
Harbinger of Destruction Price: Stats: Equip: Rules: Other:
Harbinger of Transmogrification Price: Stats: Equip: Rules: Other:
Harbinger of the Storm Price: Stats: Equip: Rules: Other:
Harbinger of Eternity Price: Stats: Equip: Staff should be shooting weapon as well as CCW . Rules: Other:
Harbinger of Despair Price: Stats: Equip: Rules: Other:
Harbinger of Order Price: +15 to Cryptek Stats: See Cryptek Equip: Gloom Prism. Rod of Absolution (shooting weapon with Exile Ray flame template). Beacon of Precision (units aiming to deep strike within 6” of Order-tek do not scatter). Rules: None Other: None
TRANSPORT
Spoiler:
Catacomb Command Barge Price: 75 Stats: Same Equip: Same Rules: Same Other: Same
Ghost Ark Price: Decrease (100 points) Stats: Increase carrying capacity to 12. Equip: Remove Repair Barge ability as standard. Include Repair Barge as purchasable equipment upgrade (would then re-restrict occupants to only Warriors and HQ). Rules:N/A Other: Remove “Warriors & HQ only” occupant restriction (allowing other units to take it would give ‘Crons access to a secondary transport option, thus reducing reliance on Nightscythes. Because it is option topped, that would also mean models can assault from it, meaning Lychguard might become useful)
Night Scythe Price: 125 points Stats: Same Equip: Same Rules: Same – Still the best transport in the game. No reason to add arbitrary restrictions. Other: Same
TROOPS
Spoiler:
No changes needed for Warriors or Immortals
Flayed Ones Price: 15 points Stats: Same Equip: None Rules: Fear, Shred, Fearless, Infiltrate, Reanimation Protocols, Blood Strike – Flayed Ones have the Deep Strike rule and may assault the same turn they come in from Reserves, but it is a disordered charge. Other: Same
ELITES
Spoiler:
Deathmarks Price: N/A Stats: N/A Equip: N/A Rules: Ethereal Interception to grant Interceptor rule as well (duh). Other: N/A
Lychguard Price: 45 Stats: WS5 BS4 S5 T5 W1 I2 A2 Ld10 Sv 3+ Equip: Add the following to the list of upgrades May replace Warscythe with up to two of the following. The unit may take any combination: - Hyperphase Sword - Free - Hyperphase Axe (Power Axe) - Free - Dispersion Shield – 10 points - May take Sempiternal Weave for 10 points Rules: Undying Servitude, Unswerving Loyalty – If the Warlord is in a unit of Lychguard, they automatically pass Look Out Sir! rolls; and Killing Blow - A Lychguard can opt to make a single attack instead of its normal attacks. If it does so, the attack also has the Instant Death rule. Other: Able to mix and match wargear instead of being restricted to entire unit being equipped with exact same weapons. Include ability to equip two CCWs.
Triarch Praetorians Price: Same Stats: WS5 BS4 S5 T5 W1 I2 A2 Ld10 Sv 3+ Equip: Rod of covenant loses Unwieldy Rules: Interdiction - Triarch Praetorians lie in wait, hovering above a battle until the time is right. Triarch Praetorians always start the game in reserve, unless the Praetorians are part of the Warlord's unit. They may come in from Reserves on turn one. Other: They didn't sleep during the eons, earning them WS5, and their cost justifies removing unwieldy and adding another attack.
C'tan Shards Price: 160 points Stats: Same Equip: Change to powers are as follows. A C’tan Shard must pick at least one power and may have up to three: - Entropic Touch – Close combat attacks have the Rending and Entropic Touch rules. - Gaze of Death – Same - Grand Illusion – Same - Lord of Fire – Increase range to 18” - Moulder of Worlds – Complete change – The C’tan reshapes the world as it sees fit, lowering hills and moving reality to disorient its foes. Once per game, the C’tan may roll a D3. It may then move that many pieces of terrain up to 3” in any direction. If any models are in the way, move them; they are not killed, simply shaken as they earth moves under their feet. - Pyreshards – Uses the following profile: R:18” S:4 AP:- Type: Assault 10 - Sentient Singularity – Any model that attempts to Deep Strike within 6” of the C’tan automatically mishaps. Any enemy vehicle that attempts to move at all within 6” of the C’tan takes a Dangerous Terrain test. Any enemy non-vehicle models that attempt to move within 6” of the C’tan must take a Toughness test or be removed from play with no armor saves allowed. - Swarm of Spirit Dust – The C’tan gains Assault and Defensive Grenades as well as the Shrouded rule. At the beginning of each Fight sub-phase, each unit in combat with the C’tan Shard must take a Blind test. - Time’s Arrow – Same - Transdimensional Thunderbolt – R:24” S:7 AP:- Type: Assault 4, Tesla, Arc - Eternal Form – 50 points - The C’tan gains a 2+ Armor save and 3+ Invulnerable save. - Phaseblade – 25 points – This is a close combat weapon that uses the following profile: R:- S:User AP:1 Type: Melee, Instant Death. Any successful invulnerable saves taken against wounds caused by this weapon must be re-rolled. C'tan Statline- Same as now, except it has a 2+ save, and it's base cost increased to 190.
Fragment of a God- Grants Fleet, Rampage, and Rage. 40 points.
Powers: Void Dragon Powers Entropic Strike- Grants entropic Strike to both the melee, and ranged weapons of the C'tan 5 points Infernal Machines- All Canoptek and Vehicle units within 6' of the C'tan gain IWND. 15 points
Nightbringer Gaze of Death-35 points Reapers Blade- Successful Invulnerable saves must be rerolled, in close combat against a C'tan with this upgrade. 50 points
Outsider Aura of Insanity- All enemy models within 12 have -1 LD. In addition, they use the lowest leadership in their unit, instead of the highest. 25 points Madness- Fired as a shooting attack. If it hits, the Unit is stripped of the following special rules: ATSNKF, Fearless. In addition ,they do not benefit from any rules that would allow them to auto-pass any type of leadership test. 40 points
Deciver- Grand Illusion- Same Juxtapose- in any assault phase (Including the enemies) A C'tan wielding this power, may choose to immediately leave combat.It must pass a LD test. If it does so It may then move 2D6. It is allowed to make a charge, with this movement, but not on the same unit it just left combat with. 35 points
The Shaper Writhing Worldscape- Roll a D6. on a 4+ the entire board counts as dangerous terrain for the enemy, until the following turn. 40 points Sentient Singularity- Units may fire normal BS at any flyer, that is within 12' of a C'tan with this upgrade. 15 points
The Burning One Shield of Flames- All models (Friend or Foe) In base contact with a C'tan with this upgrade, take an Automatic Strength 6 AP3 Hit, during each round of close combat. 15 points Pyreshards- 36 range, Strength 6, AP4, Assault 6, Soul Blaze- 15
Endless Swarm Swarm of Spirit Dust- Grants defensive, offensive grenades. Stealth, and shrouding. 15 points Devouring Swarm- Strength 6 AP2 Torrent-35 points. Rules: Poisoned weapons or weapons that wound on a flat D6 roll (such as snipers) only wound on a 6. Other: May choose one of the following: Living Adamantine – C’tan Shard becomes S8, T8, and I3 Living Quicksilver – C’tan Shard becomes T6 and I5 and becomes a Jump Monstrous Creature
Triarch Stalker Price: 140 Stats: Same Equip: - Hyperphase Blades – These are two Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons. - Heat Ray is twin-linked. - Particle Shredder is twin-linked - All weapon options are free upgrades. Rules: Same Other: Remove the rider on the top of physical model and replace with guns, instead of having them underneath.
Tomb Blades Price: N/A Stats: N/A Equip: One Tomb Blade may take a Heat Blaster for 10 points Up to three Tomb Blades may take a Transdimensional Beamer for 10 points Rules: N/A Other: N/A
Destroyers Price: Decrease (35pts) Stats: Destroyer is the same Heavy Destroyer: WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W1 I2 A2 Ld10 Sv 3+ Equip: Add the following to the Option list: A Destroyer may replace its Gauss Cannon with Tesla Cannon – Free Hyperphase Sword – Free Warscythe – 10 points OR Heavy Destroyer upgrade is 10 points. Any Heavy Destroyer may take one of the following: Two Hyperphase Swords – 5 points Heavy Gauss cannon – 10 points Warscythe – 10 points Tesla Destructor – 15 points Gravity Stabilizers – 10 points
Any combination of the above option may be used in a single unit. A unit may have both Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers in it. Rules: N/A Other: N/A
HEAVY SUPPORT
Spoiler:
Annihilation Barge Price: N/A (you’ll see why no decrease in a second) Stats: N/A Equip: One Twin-linked Gauss Cannon on top, one Gauss Cannon underneath. The Annihilation Barge may: Swap the Twin-linked Gauss Cannon for a Twin-linked Tesla Cannon for free. OR Replace the Twin-linked Gauss Cannon with either a twin-linked Tesla Destructor, Twin-linked Particle Shredder, or Twin-linked Heavy Gauss Cannon for +20 points.
The Gauss Cannon underneath may be swapped with a Tesla Cannon for free. Rules: N/A Other: N/A
Doomsday Ark Price: 160 Stats: N/A Equip: A Shadowloom as purchased for 10 points Rules: The Doomsday Ark uses the following profiles. The first profile is used if the Ark moved, the second is used if the Ark did not move. : R:48” S:9 AP:1 Type: Heavy 1, Blast R:72” S:10 AP:1 Type: Ordnance 1, Large Blast
Monolith Price: Decrease (180 points) Stats: N/A Equip: N/A Rules: Massive – The Monolith never rolls on the mishap table. Instead, if the Monolith scatters onto an enemy unit or terrain, reduce the scatter by the shortest amount possible to prevent it from doing so. Other: N/A
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/09 14:48:07
McNinja wrote: The Stalker only took a 50 point decrease, so it would be 110 points
Well, the Phaeron in the post I made fixes the assigning traits problem for those HQs with Phaeron.
Stalker would be 100pts if its a 50pt drop And what about characters like Szeras, Orikan, Obyron? They aren't Phaerons so they need a trait, as do your FOOL and the Destroyer OL, and Szareh cos he's kind of a high Phaeron/Triarch Lord.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
skoffs wrote: Some of these things are looking pretty good, but just a reminder:
We're not just balancing the codex in a vacuum, we've gotta keep the balance with the other codecies in mind.
Certain units need to be nerfed because they are TOO good as they are, especially when compared to things available to other races. We can't just have the entire book full of nothing but the greatest stuff ever.
So maybe, in addition to, "does changing this make it better?", we need to also ask, "does changing this make it better than something equivalent from another codex?"
If the answer is yes, maybe we should rethink some of the changes.
Thanks skoffs but you're right. Do you have any particular things in mind that need a tone down from the thread?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/09 14:26:57
"The galaxy knelt before us once, and it will do so again" "'Anton, you could not outsmart that rock'
'I'm still smarter than the Imperial Guard'"
McNinja wrote: The Stalker only took a 50 point decrease, so it would be 110 points
Well, the Phaeron in the post I made fixes the assigning traits problem for those HQs with Phaeron.
Stalker would be 100pts if its a 50pt drop And what about characters like Szeras, Orikan, Obyron? They aren't Phaerons so they need a trait, as do your FOOL and the Destroyer OL, and Szareh cos he's kind of a high Phaeron/Triarch Lord.
They do... I would assume that a normal Overlord would either take Phaeron and pick it or roll. Szareh's profile needs Phaeron added to it.
I reckon Zahndrekh should have 'Always a Plan in Motion', Szeras 'A Use for the Conquered', Anrakyr 'Conqueror of Old', Orikan 'Plan in Motion', Ezandrakh (Destroyer) 'Conqueror' or 'Unyielding Command' same with Obyron, and Sahtah (FOOL) either 'unyielding command' or 'Ancient Hatred'. Still think Favoured of the Triarch is iffy cos it half forces Pratorians on those who don't want a Phaeron.
"The galaxy knelt before us once, and it will do so again" "'Anton, you could not outsmart that rock'
'I'm still smarter than the Imperial Guard'"
Quick question: will this thread also have an entire new profile sheet for every unit, like what I have with my Tyranid thread, or will the form Skoffs made suffice?
RULES
Undying Servitude - if HQ present in unit, that unit may reroll failed RP and LoS rolls. Reroll for LoS seems to fit perfectly, nice simple but effective rule that would fit their fluff... but on further consideration, the RP reroll seems a bit OP, as someone pointed out before.
Phaeron – The rule no longer grants Relentless. Instead, the Warlord may pick his Warlord trait. This would be WAY too good. Perhaps, instead, this is where the "can reroll RP" rule should go (would fit well with the fluff, too. "Only the most powerful Overlords would be worthy of this gift of true eternal life", etc.)
WARGEAR
Heat Blaster - lower strength version of the Heat Ray. 12" S7 AP1 Heavy 1 Melta/Template S5 AP4 Heavy 1. seems like AP1 might make it too good. We want it to threaten vehicles, not be a guaranteed tank killer
Gravity Stabilizers - Grants Relentless. actually, the only thing this seems like it would benefit would be Destroyers, so maybe just give it exclusively to them as an upgrade option instead of an army wide wargear option
Gauntlet of Flame - R: Template S:4 AP:5 Type: Assault 1, Torrent Okay
Mindshackle Scarabs - increase price (20 points). LD test on only 2D6, but reroll successful passes. I think this version works pretty well, but may need additional input from other non-necron players to see if they would consider it balanced
Staff of Light – This is uses the following profiles:
R:18" S:5 AP:3 Type: Assault 3
R:- S:User AP:3 Type: Melee, Two Handed Yep
Void Blade-Rends on a to wound roll of 5 or 6. Specialist Weapon. cool!
Paired Voidblades- Grants Shred. Super cool! (suddenly Praetorians might be worth considering)
Gauntlet of Flame- Give the flamer the Torrent profile. on here twice
Paired GOF- Overwatch D6+1. I assume you meant "D3+1"?
Hyperphase Sword- Free Upgrade. yup
Paired- grants +2 bonus attacks, instead of the normal +1 assuming this won't be free, correct?
WARLORD TRAITS
Favored of the Triarch – Triarch Praetorians are scoring. nah, too specific/useless without Praets. We shoukd just give that ability to the HQ instead, and come up with something else for this rule
Unyeilding Command – The Warlord and any unit within 12” gains the Stubborn rule. good
Conqueror of Old – The Warlord and any unit within 12” gains the Crusader rule also good
Ancient Hatred – The Warlord and his ... unit gain Hatred?
A Use for the Conquered – The Warlord has found a better use for the C’tan Shards –siphoning their power. Once, at the start of the game, roll a D3. The Warlord adds that much to his WS, I, and A. At the beginning of every game turn, roll a D6; on a roll of 1, the powers fade and cannot be regained. interesting. could work.
Always a Plan in Motion – You may re-roll any reserve roll. In addition, all models that can outflank gain the Acute Senses rule. looks sweet. actually, maybe it might be too good to be able to reroll EVERY reserve roll (if you could, the Comms Relay would be useless). maybe just "can reroll one reserve roll per turn"?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
McNinja wrote: Quick question: will this thread also have an entire new profile sheet for every unit, like what I have with my Tyranid thread, or will the form Skoffs made suffice?
Nah, the form I made was just for initial evaluations (just to address what might need to be changed).
Once everything's been sorted out, we're probably going to need a legit write up/entire new profile sheet for each unit.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/06/09 16:04:14
Ok so we now need a new trait, to assign traits to all named characters, to reduce the AP of the Heat Blaster (AP3? or 2?) and maybe tweak MSS depending on other people's views. In terms of the new WT.... I suggested something earlier for Favoured of the Triarch (1 re-roll per phase to represent the fact that he is fated by the Triarch for success) but how about this;
Flayer Infection; The Warlord has begun to show signs of succumbing to the Flayer Virus, and has modified his wargear to spill as much blood in combat. His cc attacks have the Fleshbane rule
"The galaxy knelt before us once, and it will do so again" "'Anton, you could not outsmart that rock'
'I'm still smarter than the Imperial Guard'"
Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote: Ok so we now need a new trait, I like what you posted below
to assign traits to all named characters, we'll get to that
to reduce the AP of the Heat Blaster (AP3? or 2?) well, it still has to THREATEN vehicles, so AP3 might be too high. AP2 should be fine, shouldn't it?
and maybe tweak MSS depending on other people's views. hopefully a non-necron player can chime in
In terms of the new WT.... I suggested something earlier for Favoured of the Triarch (1 re-roll per phase to represent the fact that he is fated by the Triarch for success) oh yeah, that one. that sounds pretty decent.
but how about this;
Flayer Infection; The Warlord has begun to show signs of succumbing to the Flayer Virus, and has modified his wargear to spill as much blood in combat. His cc attacks have the Fleshbane rule oooooh, very nice! super fluffy, yet still viably sound
I meant we'll get to the discussing of those things, but if anyone else wants to jump in and start the discussion, by all means!
(it's 1am, here, so I'm out. got work in the morning).
skoffs wrote: Okay, let's discuss this one section at a time.
RULES
Undying Servitude - if HQ present in unit, that unit may reroll failed RP and LoS rolls. Reroll for LoS seems to fit perfectly, nice simple but effective rule that would fit their fluff... but on further consideration, the RP reroll seems a bit OP, as someone pointed out before. I agree.
Phaeron – The rule no longer grants Relentless. Instead, the Warlord may pick his Warlord trait. This would be WAY too good. Perhaps, instead, this is where the "can reroll RP" rule should go (would fit well with the fluff, too. "Only the most powerful Overlords would be worthy of this gift of true eternal life", etc.) Well, it is a 20 point upgrade, and considering that I pick my warlord traits anyway (because really, who actually likes the random traits?), its not bad for me. Making the Warlord Traits themselves balanced would be the only way to prevent this from being OP. The CSM codex warlord traits are all pretty much garbage except for 1, which is the infiltrate one, and that's why Huron is generally the Warlord. If you don't want to pay the 20 points, they can roll. I would imagine that the necrons, after not changing for 60 million years, would know what they're doing.
WARGEAR
Heat Blaster - lower strength version of the Heat Ray. 12" S7 AP1 Heavy 1 Melta/Template S5 AP4 Heavy 1. seems like AP1 might make it too good. We want it to threaten vehicles, not be a guaranteed tank killerI always figured the heat Ray to be a better Multi-melta, so I thought of this as more like a meltagun.
Gravity Stabilizers - Grants Relentless. actually, the only thing this seems like it would benefit would be Destroyers, so maybe just give it exclusively to them as an upgrade option instead of an army wide wargear option True.
Gauntlet of Flame - R: Template S:4 AP:5 Type: Assault 1, Torrent Okay
Mindshackle Scarabs - increase price (20 points). LD test on only 2D6, but reroll successful passes. I think this version works pretty well, but may need additional input from other non-necron players to see if they would consider it balanced
Staff of Light – This is uses the following profiles:
R:18" S:5 AP:3 Type: Assault 3
R:- S:User AP:3 Type: Melee, Two Handed Yep
Void Blade-Rends on a to wound roll of 5 or 6. Specialist Weapon. cool!
Paired Voidblades- Grants Shred. Super cool! (suddenly Praetorians might be worth considering)Agreed. Also, WS5.
Gauntlet of Flame- Give the flamer the Torrent profile. on here twice
Paired GOF- Overwatch D6+1. I assume you meant "D3+1"? I think a different bonus might be in order. Perhaps some sort of AP bonus? When an undead robots fists become green fire, I would imagine they become a bit more powerful.
Hyperphase Sword- Free Upgrade. yup
Paired- grants +2 bonus attacks, instead of the normal +1 assuming this won't be free, correct?I would think +10 points?
WARLORD TRAITS
Favored of the Triarch – Triarch Praetorians are scoring. nah, too specific/useless without Praets. We shoukd just give that ability to the HQ instead, and come up with something else for this rule This originally went hand in hand with Phaeron, though the Lord of the Triarch option for Overlords would technically negate this, so I'm not sure what I was thinking.
Unyeilding Command – The Warlord and any unit within 12” gains the Stubborn rule. good
Conqueror of Old – The Warlord and any unit within 12” gains the Crusader rule also good
Ancient Hatred – The Warlord and his ... unit gain Hatred?Sorry, wasn't able to think of anything but yes. Hatred.
A Use for the Conquered – The Warlord has found a better use for the C’tan Shards –siphoning their power. Once, at the start of the game, roll a D3. The Warlord adds that much to his WS, I, and A. At the beginning of every game turn, roll a D6; on a roll of 1, the powers fade and cannot be regained. interesting. could work. I also think this could be added to depending on how many C'tan you have on the board?
Always a Plan in Motion – You may re-roll any reserve roll. In addition, all models that can outflank gain the Acute Senses rule. looks sweet. actually, maybe it might be too good to be able to reroll EVERY reserve roll (if you could, the Comms Relay would be useless). maybe just "can reroll one reserve roll per turn"?
I don't know of many people who take the Comms Relay in the first place.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
McNinja wrote: Quick question: will this thread also have an entire new profile sheet for every unit, like what I have with my Tyranid thread, or will the form Skoffs made suffice?
Nah, the form I made was just for initial evaluations (just to address what might need to be changed).
Once everything's been sorted out, we're probably going to need a legit write up/entire new profile sheet for each unit.
Sweet. I'm actually about to write all of this down in a notebook so I can start to use it in games!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote: Ok so we now need a new trait, to assign traits to all named characters, to reduce the AP of the Heat Blaster (AP3? or 2?) and maybe tweak MSS depending on other people's views. In terms of the new WT.... I suggested something earlier for Favoured of the Triarch (1 re-roll per phase to represent the fact that he is fated by the Triarch for success) but how about this;
Flayer Infection; The Warlord has begun to show signs of succumbing to the Flayer Virus, and has modified his wargear to spill as much blood in combat. His cc attacks have the Fleshbane rule
So much win. The Flayer one is definitely going in.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/09 16:36:14
Thanks on the WT, but I'm with skoffs on Phaeron, because a) Picking traits is a tad OP, b) you aren't supposed to pick whether you like it or not, and c) if we put the Flayer one in I somehow doubt Imotekh is succumbing to the Flayer virus even if he is now kick-ass melee, and it makes warscythes double the troube. Re-rolling RP is more fluffy imho, and less OP. I also think AP2 is better for the blaster then its more like a plasma than a melta, which crons lack.
The other things are the GofF, which I think D3+1 AP4 instead of 5, Plan in Motion Trait, maybe D3-1 rolls to meet in the middle, and the Ctan Power Trait shouldn't get boosted he's only nicked it off one Ctan!
"The galaxy knelt before us once, and it will do so again" "'Anton, you could not outsmart that rock'
'I'm still smarter than the Imperial Guard'"
Also, the Tachyon Arrow sucks. Hows about Range 60" S6 AP1 Assault 1 Armorbane? For 30 points on only a couple models, I tihnk that's fine. Considering the fluff for the weapon has it as basically a super-powered railgun, I figured that's be a good way to take it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote: Thanks on the WT, but I'm with skoffs on Phaeron, because a) Picking traits is a tad OP, b) you aren't supposed to pick whether you like it or not, and c) if we put the Flayer one in I somehow doubt Imotekh is succumbing to the Flayer virus even if he is now kick-ass melee, and it makes warscythes double the troube. Re-rolling RP is more fluffy imho, and less OP. I also think AP2 is better for the blaster then its more like a plasma than a melta, which crons lack.
The other things are the GofF, which I think D3+1 AP4 instead of 5, Plan in Motion Trait, maybe D3-1 rolls to meet in the middle, and the Ctan Power Trait shouldn't get boosted he's only nicked it off one Ctan!
Yeah, I'm smelling what you're cooking. I'm writing some stuff up to print out, and I threw out the pick WT and put in the re-roll RP. For 20 points, I like it.
AP2 is fine with me.
For the Gauntlet, what about two giving it Torrent and in cc making successful saves be re-rolled? 5 points for one 15 for two. S5 AP4 or S4 AP4?
AaPiM trait, maybe just one reserve re-roll per turn?
C'tan trait, it's not just one, but many. The plural of Shards and their indicates that many are being drained of power.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/09 18:16:21
Staff of Light – This is uses the following profiles:
R:18" S:5 AP:3 Type: Assault 3
R:- S:User AP:3 Type: Melee, Two Handed Yep
I think the Staff of Light should just be a regular one handed CC weapon, with no AP. It does too much as a base weapon, with AP3.
Void Blade-Rends on a to wound roll of 5 or 6. Specialist Weapon. cool!
Glad you like it, I think the Void blades needed a bit of a buff.
Paired Voidblades- Grants Shred. Super cool! (suddenly Praetorians might be worth considering)Agreed. Also, WS5.
Yeah, lots of rending attacks
Paired GOF- Overwatch D6+1. I assume you meant "D3+1"? I think a different bonus might be in order. Perhaps some sort of AP bonus? When an undead robots fists become green fire, I would imagine they become a bit more powerful.
Well, it's already a powerful flamer on it's own, and rerolls failed to hit and wounds. This item is more of an Anti-horde measure. D6+1 Flamer hits will make people think twice, and it adds +1 attack for paired weapons.
Hyperphase Sword- Free Upgrade. yup
Paired- grants +2 bonus attacks, instead of the normal +1 assuming this won't be free, correct?I would think +10 points?
I would say +5 points to replace the staff of light with it, since you'd be giving up your shooting.
My Idea for points costs for Weapons would be like this:
Base, staff of light
The Overlord/Lord may purchase an additonal close combat weapon from the following list
-Hyperphase Sword-Free
-GOF-5 Points
-Voidblade-10
May Replace all Close Combat weapons, with a Warscythe- 25
The Overlord may also replace his Staff of light with the following
-Hyperphase Sword-5
GOF- 5
Voidblade-5
I like the costing Sasori, fits well. So... that's wargear and Warlords just about done and dusted methinks. Where next? We can fine-tune the fluff, we could edit Elites, tweak Troops and Transports, fiddle with FA or haggle over HS (see what I did there.... No? Ah well made me laugh).
Seriously though what's next on the to-do list do we think?
"The galaxy knelt before us once, and it will do so again" "'Anton, you could not outsmart that rock'
'I'm still smarter than the Imperial Guard'"
Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote: I like the costing Sasori, fits well. So... that's wargear and Warlords just about done and dusted methinks. Where next? We can fine-tune the fluff, we could edit Elites, tweak Troops and Transports, fiddle with FA or haggle over HS (see what I did there.... No? Ah well made me laugh).
Seriously though what's next on the to-do list do we think?
I see what you did there
Troops are fine, I think.
Elites it is. Let us begin the editing.
Lychguard. WS5. Ability to take two hyperphase swords.
Outfight an OL? No chance. 2 swords.... Maybe, but I'd rather have axe and shield as a second combo, for free of course.
Stalker, price drop is fine, start with a heat blaster that can become a ray
Ctan I don't have a clue.
FO are in Troops
TP need another attack, the voidblade buff does the rest
Deathmarks get Interceptor if they intercept (TM skoffs I think) and maybe AP4 weapons
"The galaxy knelt before us once, and it will do so again" "'Anton, you could not outsmart that rock'
'I'm still smarter than the Imperial Guard'"
Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote: Outfight an OL? No chance. 2 swords.... Maybe, but I'd rather have axe and shield as a second combo, for free of course.
Stalker, price drop is fine, start with a heat blaster that can become a ray
Ctan I don't have a clue.
FO are in Troops
TP need another attack, the voidblade buff does the rest
Deathmarks get Interceptor if they intercept (TM skoffs I think) and maybe AP4 weapons
Well, I posted my thoughts on the C"tan, with new powers. Really, they just need a better base save. There is no reason they shoulden't have at the very least a 3+, but for it's price a 2+ is very fair.
Stalker should still start with it's Heatray. You could give it the ability to purchase "Smash" which would make it AP2 in CC, and could trample over other vehicles in CC.
~4100
~1660
4000+
Thousand Sons 4000+
