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I was thinking the bossest of boss combos that the new Eldar codex allows for is Karandras Infiltrating a unit of 10 Wraithblades with an attatched Warlock with Conceal. Yes, that is a 4+ cover save in the open (Stealth + Shrouded) and one of the toughest units and best fighters in the galaxy infiltrating into a clear turn 2 charge position.
The only downside is that such a unit would cost 600 points, but whatever I think it may be worth it?
So does anyone see this as even a slightly viable option lol?

Don't have my BRB on me, but for Infiltrate, do you need one model or all models to have the rule?

I think only 1 model needs it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think only 1 model needs it.

I think this works better with a D-scythe unit, as they can walk out and start roasting gun lines and Aegis Defense lines right away.

You could even start them in cover for a 2+ cover save first turn if needed.

Add in Nightspear and a unit of pathfinders and you can neuter much of the return fire.

I really don't get where people keep getting the notion an IC can grant infiltrate to a unit.

It just does NOT work this way.
See, the IC can join a unit by deploying next to them (so during the act of deployment of that unit), so once the time has come to infiltrate, whatever unit you wanted to "tag along" already had to deploy, or be announced as reserves.

The order of operations forbids it, there is no need for special ruling for it, its just too late.

Plus, I'm not sure that Warlocks can actually join Wraithguard/blades

 jifel wrote:
Plus, I'm not sure that Warlocks can actually join Wraithguard/blades

They can't. Only guardian-type units (foot, jetbikes and artillery)

Warlock vcannot join but you could use Iyanden codex and take a spiritseer, Karandras which would be okay. Still that is a heck of a lot of points 700+

 BoomWolf wrote:
I really don't get where people keep getting the notion an IC can grant infiltrate to a unit.

It just does NOT work this way.
See, the IC can join a unit by deploying next to them (so during the act of deployment of that unit), so once the time has come to infiltrate, whatever unit you wanted to "tag along" already had to deploy, or be announced as reserves.

The order of operations forbids it, there is no need for special ruling for it, its just too late.

What's your take on Shrike-the FAQ for him certainly sounds like characters can join units "before deployment". Do you think that's an ability he gets from See, But Remain Unseen?

Ordznik wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
I really don't get where people keep getting the notion an IC can grant infiltrate to a unit.

It just does NOT work this way.
See, the IC can join a unit by deploying next to them (so during the act of deployment of that unit), so once the time has come to infiltrate, whatever unit you wanted to "tag along" already had to deploy, or be announced as reserves.

The order of operations forbids it, there is no need for special ruling for it, its just too late.

What's your take on Shrike-the FAQ for him certainly sounds like characters can join units "before deployment". Do you think that's an ability he gets from See, But Remain Unseen?

It's an exception for Shrike, and Shrike alone. Until they FAQ any other similar choice, those choices can't do it.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Ordznik wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
I really don't get where people keep getting the notion an IC can grant infiltrate to a unit.

It just does NOT work this way.
See, the IC can join a unit by deploying next to them (so during the act of deployment of that unit), so once the time has come to infiltrate, whatever unit you wanted to "tag along" already had to deploy, or be announced as reserves.

The order of operations forbids it, there is no need for special ruling for it, its just too late.

What's your take on Shrike-the FAQ for him certainly sounds like characters can join units "before deployment". Do you think that's an ability he gets from See, But Remain Unseen?

It's an exception for Shrike, and Shrike alone. Until they FAQ any other similar choice, those choices can't do it.

I'm not entirely convinced shrike can infiltrate with a unit. it states that when he joins a unit before deployment he can blah blah blah...... now the only time you can join a unit before it is deployed is when you keep it in reserve, it does not say "shrike may join a unit before it is deployed and then infiltrate". maybe I'm just reading it different to how everyone else is but for me the wording is not as clear as it initially appears.

For the record ... back in 5th after about a year it was FAQ that a unit could be joined by IC before placing them. At the same time shrike got his FAQ stating they could be placed together. It is now nearly a year after 6th began ... all we have is shrikes left over FAQ but without permission for a unit to be joined before placing them. As such it doesn't work.

Does this work the same the other way around?

i.e. Could a Spiritseer join a Striking Scorpions squad and infiltrate in with them somewhere?

-Dinkins

We're not seriously going back to the "See But Remain Unseen" doesn't work argument, are we?

Takes me back to early days of 5th. Somebody page Gwar!


***EDIT***
The rulebook specifically prohibits Independent Characters from getting Infiltrate from units, Wraithlord.

This is so debatable ... I believe that Karandas can outflank with wraithguard. This is a subject for the rules forum though.

 felixcat wrote:
This is so debatable ... I believe that Karandas can outflank with wraithguard. This is a subject for the rules forum though.

it is but this the failing point ... for an IC to join a unit that unit must be on the board. Any unit without infiltrate will already be in the deployment zone and IC with infiltrate joining them doesn't change that.

We've already made a thread for this in YMDC.

Ordznik wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
I really don't get where people keep getting the notion an IC can grant infiltrate to a unit.

It just does NOT work this way.
See, the IC can join a unit by deploying next to them (so during the act of deployment of that unit), so once the time has come to infiltrate, whatever unit you wanted to "tag along" already had to deploy, or be announced as reserves.

The order of operations forbids it, there is no need for special ruling for it, its just too late.

What's your take on Shrike-the FAQ for him certainly sounds like characters can join units "before deployment". Do you think that's an ability he gets from See, But Remain Unseen?

Does Shrike has "infiltrator"? no. he does not.
He has "Seen but Remain Unseen", his own, uniquely named ability, designated PRECISELY for that.

If that is how regular infiltrator rules work, why oh why would he need his own unique entry?

If any, shrike proves the fact that normally infiltrator does NOT work that way, and that it's a unique ability.

In 5th shrike did not work and infiltrating did not work when an IC had it. However, they FAQ'd it to work for both situations. Then 6th came around, and the FAQ for the BRB was entirely rewritten, leaving out that ruling. However, shrike retained his FAQ. RAW, no, it does not confer. However, from the exact same wording from last edition and the inclusion of the FAQ back then, im pretty sure its safe to say it was RAI to work. However, until GW specifically says yes, the RAW crowd will argue against it with good merit.

Yep.. it just won't work buddy. Doesn't work for Karandas & doesn't work for Shrike unless you do RAI and house rule.

Rule Book 6th Edition

DEDICATED TRANSPORTS
pg 78

The only limitation of a Dedicated Transport is that when it is
deployed, it can only carry the unit it was selected with (plus
any Independent Characters that have joined it).

DEPLOYING TRANSPORT VEHICLES
pg 121

Units can be deployed in Transport vehicles if you wish -
simply declare to your opponent which units are embarked
where as part of your deployment. However, i-f a unit is a
Dedicated Transport, only the unit it was selected with (plus
any Independent Characters that have joined the unit) can
deploy within it. After the game begins, other units can embark
and disembark as normal.


I know that these references are irrelevant to the subject but
they give a new perspective to the answer.

The union of the Independent Character with the unit is done before the deployment.
So at the Deployment Step, the Independent Character (aka. Karandras) is already
in unit coherency with the Harlequins or the Wraithguards (even if they are in
the Wave Serpent) and they can infiltrate all together.

Can we ever have a tactics discussion concerning ICs and infiltrate without people arguing the rule? Seriously most if not all major tournaments have ruled that ICs can confer infiltrate get on with your lives.

He can only grant outflank because you cannot put the IC into the unit before it infiltrates.

There are arguments for and against ICs granting infiltrate to units, a lot of which sprang up with Cypher dataslate.

The only thing that can be said for certain is that an infiltrating unit cannot take an IC for the ride (etc. Unit has Infiltrate, IC does not). A quick search of forum archives can give you the meat and potatoes if you so choose.

How is Shrike still an argument? It's very clear that Shrike infiltrates with a unit that has jump packs. I've never even played against anyone whose ever questioned that. He doesn't have Infiltrate as a rule, he has "See but remain unseen" which grants him the ability to infiltrate with said unit. He does not have Infiltrate in the classic sense.

How do you argue against that?

Go to YMDC. They will find a way.

Okay I understand there are tons of arguments but this issue really needs to be put to bed.

Here are the FAQs for 2 of the largest (if not the largest) tournaments.

http://www.adepticon.org/14rules/40KAddendumv2014.pdf

http://www.frontlinegaming.org/community/40k-faq/

They BOTH rule that you can have an IC infiltrate a unit.

I don't care what people think because this is an argument that can be argued forever. Just look at these rulings and move on with your lives.

^This

Was going to say the same thing.

Find out how your local group has decided upon this and go that way.

Every 2 months I swear. Some neckbeard thinks they just figured out the rules. Does this "Huh uh! see?! SEE?!" dance. Gets refered to the same threads.

The call has been made by players everywhere. Give squads infiltrate is the point of the freaking rule. That's why everyone allows it despite GW's shodding editing. Same thing happened with Abaddon joining marked units, pre FAQ.

Just listen carefully and you can almost here the heavy gutteral breathing of offended nerd lawyers. "That's not what the book says! No!! The order of operations is clear given that the ...."

Be still my heart. Their rage embiggens us all.