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If you are playing chaos, a daemon prince will mess them up.

So will most MCs and FMCs actually...

Like I said, our FLGS doesn't have much in the way of blocking terrain. Even with area terrain and cover save concealment, it doesn't do much when his Pathfinders can remove cover.

The broadsides aren't missilesides, they're railgun sides, so they still pose a threat to light vehicle spam. I'll go ahead and try Chaos though, thanks! Really good point about how putting wounds on the Riptide doesn't decrease incoming fire towards me.

My plan now is to put enough units in his backfield that he can't risk firing so many blast templates in my direction lest he hit his own guys.

Question to the OP: Have you tried a DK with jump pack, or Interceptors? I run both in my GK list and let me tell you a 30" shunt then 12 inch movement and 7" average assault with instant death capability is hard to get away from and should have no problem dropping that Riptide if you use one to deal with bubble wrap and the other to smash the Riptide.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/517337.page

scroll down a bit to the Elites section in orange. I have quite a bit on using and countering and counter the counters on riptide

I have recently been pondering the possibilities of taking down a Riptide (or indeed, Wraithknight) with Force weapons. All you need is one good hit, which is already coming from a weapon with a decent AP value, and a passed Psychic test. Voila, one-hit-kill.

The trouble is finding a psyker that can reliably hit and wound one of these things in a single round before getting squished themselves. Mephiston could do it... though he's just as expensive... a normal Blood Angels Librarian could also do it if they took the Codex power that gives them S10. I couldn't really come up with much else.

However, the train of thought did make me realise that if Grey Knights can get into combat with it, it's all but guaranteed to fall over.

I think the list for you is this buddy:

Abaddon
Typhus

3 Squads of Plague Marines in 3 Land Raiders

That's 1850ish right there. You can add a cultist zombie blob to go up to 2k to babysit home objectives or bog him down.

Make sure he rolls to see if the reactor overheats on those riptides. Seems to me he could easily 'forget' that step when he's launching his pie plates at your units.

 sudojoe wrote:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/517337.page

scroll down a bit to the Elites section in orange. I have quite a bit on using and countering and counter the counters on riptide

Your guides are the best, thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also just had this realization that if you fire the Nova-charged Ion Accelerator, you can't fire anything else because it's an ordnance weapon, and that Shielded Missile Drones fire at BS2... I feel so cheated.

First of all, how many points are you playing?

Was the Dark Eldar guy using Nightshields and Flickerfields on his vehicles? If he was, then they would have been relatively (for DE) survivable against Riptides and Broadsides. A flickerfield save can't be removed by Pathfinders, so one always gets at least the equivalent of a 5+ jink save. Furthermore, most effective Tau weapons have only a 36" range or less. Missilesides are 36", The H. Burst Cannon is 36", SMS is 30", Pulse Rifles are 30". Nightshields would have given the DE player a slight range advantage, as Missilesides would have had to move and BS1 shoot a large portion of their missiles, and all that nasty S5 shooting (well, nasty for AV10) could easily be outranged. Against Railsides and Ion Riptides, well, Flickerfield saves will do something.

If the DE player didn't have those upgrades, then yeah, if Tau gets first turn then DE are pretty boned.

Missile drones for the riptide? The hell are they using those for? thats 50pts of almost uselessness due to the range and tend to force leaderships. If they had the 2+ armor or were 2wounds i'd justify the cost (2wound might be overboard though) but to hell with 25pts for a couple 36" S7 Ap4 shot at BS2. And personally, 4+ invul isnt that great when its all you got. Shield drones in the old dex were nasty because they got 2+ armor if they were with the broadsides, now theyre garbage and thats all the shielded missile drones are doing.

Sadly as you have probably noticed, shooting it to death isnt easy. Without mass AP2 weapons with a decent range (Lascannons being ideal) you arent going to reliably hurt them. Even if you bring mass AP2, unless the riptide in question has a Heavy Burst Cannon he'll just take the 3++ save if he passes his nova charge. Personally i see no point in novacharging the IA unless you have little/nothing else to deal with AV13/14.

I like the Land Raider idea. The only thing he is going to have is fusion crisis suits (if he has bodyguards or only 2 riptides) that can hurt the damn things, and once you deliver a pack of marines and some termies to that gunline hes going to shat bricks. Also lascannons on the landraiders are perfect for sniping missilesides or wounding riptides as you run across the board. Unless he gets insanely lucky, all he will do is glance once maybe twice a turn.

That is, of course, unless he guesses it and brings fusions out the ass to counter it lol.

Another idea is a bit on the comical side but it works when youre not against a horde. My friends in the military call it the 21 Lascannon Salute where every single thing in your army has a lascannon if you can get it including the Icarus Lascannon and an ADL, and you just camp out firing 21+ depending on points lascannons across the table. Yea, he can strip cover, but hes spending 2 marks per 5man unit to do that instead of improving his BS. Remember, if hes not BS6+ and he rolls a 1 on the Gets Hot! he does NOT get to fire that weapon and can NOT reroll the gets hot result (w/o the buffcommander giving twinlinked)

The missile drones would still shoot at full BS because they are seperate models. Remember about the LD checks though, force enough and you might just see the riptides go cruising off his board edge.

Also, the pathfinders should be your priority target. Without markerlights the riptides wont be cutting gouges through your army and you have a bit more time. If you can use something like a whirlwind/colossus/thunderfire, hide it behind a building, and ignore cover on the pathfinders you should be able to wipe them out easy, then turn that gun on his objective troops. They got bumped down to a 5+ save so they really rely on cover.

We're playing 2000 points.

I just realized how much he had been cheesing/cheating. I didn't realize until Vineheart01's post that shield drones no longer get the 2+ for an attach.

 Enigwolf wrote:

lynxstrife wrote:
Dark elder poisoned weapons eat riptides.

Our Dark Eldar player never got in range. =/ He didn't survive Turn 1 shooting, to boot. Although this might be because we were playing short table edges.

you need to add more cover to the board. There needs to be BLOS terrain, being able to annilate an army over 36" away is not how the game was meant to be played.

You probably should ask to check his army list too. or he basically has no troops. But you should considered mass land raider spam (av14). He should not be able to stop it.

Gargoyles with toxin sacs

Exergy wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:

lynxstrife wrote:
Dark elder poisoned weapons eat riptides.

Our Dark Eldar player never got in range. =/ He didn't survive Turn 1 shooting, to boot. Although this might be because we were playing short table edges.

you need to add more cover to the board. There needs to be BLOS terrain, being able to annilate an army over 36" away is not how the game was meant to be played.

I completely agree. I'm in the process of building new terrain pieces for my FLGS now, because I realized we have absolutely no BLOS terrain.

Desubot wrote:You probably should ask to check his army list too. or he basically has no troops. But you should considered mass land raider spam (av14). He should not be able to stop it.

He had 3 8-man Firewarrior squads. But yeah, something's off with those points cost...

Yep, drones don't take majority toughness/armor save anymore. Really sad...

Also I'm doing a little points breakdown right now,

assuming he fits his riptides like a smart person (ion, interceptor, skyfire) and takes two drones on each riptide (their shielded missile drones are toughness 6, but they still only have a 4+ save) that's 780 points on riptides.

9 broadsides with 2 shield drones a squad (he might add more, they're 12 points each), assuming he gave them interceptor which again is what a smart person would do, 672 points on broadsides.

3 squads of 8 fire warriors, assuming he bought a sergeant but nothing else, is 246 points on troops.

you mentioned crisis suit commanders. I have no clue what he fit on them, but just 2 commanders before even buying weapons is 170 points (and each one is going to run you at least 30 more points if you really want to kit them out)

also pathfidners. No idea what he's running there, but I'll throw in 2 squads of 6 pathfinders because that's what I use. That's 132 points.

The list I described above is (funnily enough because I was throwing it together with no forethought) exactly 2000 points. but that is before buying any weapons or wargear for the commanders.

 dementedwombat wrote:
Yep, drones don't take majority toughness/armor save anymore. Really sad...

Also I'm doing a little points breakdown right now,

assuming he fits his riptides like a smart person (ion, interceptor, skyfire) and takes two drones on each riptide (their shielded missile drones are toughness 6, but they still only have a 4+ save) that's 780 points on riptides.

9 broadsides with 2 shield drones a squad (he might add more, they're 12 points each), assuming he gave them interceptor which again is what a smart person would do, 672 points on broadsides.

3 squads of 8 fire warriors, assuming he bought a sergeant but nothing else, is 246 points on troops.

you mentioned crisis suit commanders. I have no clue what he fit on them, but just 2 commanders before even buying weapons is 170 points (and each one is going to run you at least 30 more points if you really want to kit them out)

also pathfidners. No idea what he's running there, but I'll throw in 2 squads of 6 pathfinders because that's what I use. That's 132 points.

The list I described above is (funnily enough because I was throwing it together with no forethought) exactly 2000 points. but that is before buying any weapons or wargear for the commanders.

No interceptors on anything, only Skyfire. But that's about the list, I'm guessing his points for Skyfire went to drones, weapons, and wargear for the commanders, which each had a 2-man bodyguard.

Well the interceptor upgrade costs 5 points and the skyfire costs 20 points. I think you might have got confused about what things he had when you were writing your post

If he really did have no interceptor and skyfire like the first part of your post says, then assuming he put that on all his broadsides he's so far over the points limit it's not even funny.

Just throwing 4 boduguard suits on top of what I had already he's at 2128 points and I haven't even bought the suits equipment yet.

Sky fire would of costed more then. + body guards would of put him over easily.

But back to the original tactic, you should be able to scare almost everything off the board at range with some las cannons, or even use some missiles to take out his HQ squad.

Things Tau still have trouble with:
AV14
Unreliable Ld
T4 in general

sure there CC sucks but getting into CC is a major problem so i generally don't tell people to do that.

 dementedwombat wrote:
Well the interceptor upgrade costs 5 points and the skyfire costs 20 points. I think you might have got confused about what things he had when you were writing your post

If he really did have no interceptor and skyfire like the first part of your post says, then assuming he put that on all his broadsides he's so far over the points limit it's not even funny.

Just throwing 4 boduguard suits on top of what I had already he's at 2128 points and I haven't even bought the suits equipment yet.

.

Okay, I think it's fair to say that this game was so horribly one-sided by my opponent that I should not have had this much difficulty with them. False scenario created by a dishonest player.

Drones losing toughness/leadership of the group theyre with is bad in almost every aspect. Im assuming they justify it because drones are so much cheaper now but who cares? i'd gladly keep paying 15pts for a shield drone with 2+ armor lol. Marker drones were the one that was ridiculous and too expensive, rest were fine.

Actually its bad on all accounts since the only time its good that they have base stats it doesnt matter because theyre 1w models (T4 vs T3 on firewarriors for instapaste results. Meh, still majority toughness)

And he has been making his shield drones 2+ armor? Yea, thats a dirty cheat. All drones are 4+ armor or 4+ invul (exception: Shadowsun shield drones are 3+ invul) and all are T4 except shielded missile drones, which are T6.

If a riptide has 2 drones with it, will it have a toughness value of 3 because if the majority toughness rule?

Riptide drones are T6.

Oh I see. Thank you.

 Enigwolf wrote:

NinjaStars wrote:I find that rip tides actually don't do that much damage, they're mainly a distraction while the broadsides and suits take you apart. I've had luck ignoring them and taking out the broadsides and pathfinders.

Both of them do their fair share of destruction. Broadsides shred any vehicles, ground or flyer, while the Riptides annihilate infantry.

They can annihilate infantry, but you know how it goes with blasts. If you spread out, he can only hit 3-5 guys a turn. I guess its more of a problem with marines. And if he brings the burst cannon, he'll probably kill himself as fast as he kills you.

As you will see with my other thread in here I'm going to be trying out a Typhus-Plague zombies list and I'm pretty confident that a riptide wouldn't be too much of a threat against them.

 dementedwombat wrote:
a guy who runs 3 riptides... he's obviously compensating for something

Hahaha Good one, I agree!

From an Ork point of view, but without any experience yet as I did not play vs my Tau friend since he received his new codex, I would:
1) Ignore it as long as markers, broadsides and other tanks are still on the table
2) dakkaspam it with Lootas
3) in a BW-rush army, I will disembark close enough to assaut the Ritptide with at least 1 PK.

 RedizDead wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:
a guy who runs 3 riptides... he's obviously compensating for something

Hahaha Good one, I agree!

From an Ork point of view, but without any experience yet as I did not play vs my Tau friend since he received his new codex, I would:
1) Ignore it as long as markers, broadsides and other tanks are still on the table
2) dakkaspam it with Lootas
3) in a BW-rush army, I will disembark close enough to assaut the Ritptide with at least 1 PK.

or just nob biker it...