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I'm okay with that.

There's pretty strict fluff in place preventing female Marines from being a thing. Chaos could get away with it with some Warp-handwaving and something something corruption and desperation and magic, but not Loyalists. They've said they're big fans of the setting and the fluff and I expect they know to stay away from that.

 Weltenwolf wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Minx wrote:
Would female (chaos) space marines solve that problem or is that too much of a retcon / deviation from the current background?

We've already had people spaz out over the idea in this thread. Probably would cause too many aneurysms and too much nerdrage if it was implemented.

I don't like Chaos Astartes in general, but even still, having the option to play as a female CSM would be better than not having it-- but I'm probably alone in holding that opinion in this thread.

No, you're not. WAR had male Dark Elf sorcerer, so why not female Marines in Eternal Crusade? A little bit of lore bending should be allowed. I would like to se Emperors Championess Siglinde giving the Emperors Peace to the poor aneurysm stricken fellows.

Female marines can not be reasonably described as "bending the lore a little bit". It would destroy the immersion for most people that know anything about the background. I really am just not buying the line that Tau plus Eldar at launch is some huge improvement because then you have two possible female races and thus it is soooooo much better then. The Tau are strange looking descendants of bovine appearing herbivores, this helps your roleplaying as a female how?

If you want to roleplay as a female marine, Melissa, just keep your helmet on all the time. Problem solved and you also solve the problem of an over sexualized avatar. You can hardly tell most women from men solely by the shape of their torso in contemporary flak armour. Fully encased in Astartes power armour it would be impossible to tell whether the woman inside had female breasts and buttocks anyway.

You say you want to roleplay, so well then just do it. Its a pretend character in a pretend universe, if you can go along with all the craziness that is 40k it is hardly a big step to pretend that the character in a sexless suit of armour is a female.

THE REAL PURPOSE OF FEMALE CHARACTERS IN THE PROPOSED GAME. . . .

. . . is for men that want to role play as a female character or to just have a female avatar to look at while playing the game rather than a male avatar. If you think a lot of women are going to be playing this game, think again. Female players will be rarer in frequency than they are in the tabletop game.

So then, there really is no need for several female races at launch and there is no need to break the background with female marines or female chaos marines. Most men at launch that want to play a female character would probably choose an eldar female avatar over a Tau female based on the kinds of things that men like to oogle over, hands down, its not a contest.

This brings us back to the likely number of players that have a very strong desire for a female avatar, that number is very small and one faction at launch is more than enough to satisfy the need.

JWhex wrote:
snip.

What the feth is this nonsense? The thing is with your space marine example other players aren't going to acknowledge that the Space Marine is a female as everyone knows it's really a dude under the suit and it's hard to imagine the Space marine being a female as it's going to be

voiced by male actors and not everyone is totally concerned about the looks of the female characters so female Tau having bovine qualities is not a concern. Also how do you know this game will have less women playing than the table top it hasn't even been released yet?

JWhex, don't take the baits. They might look delicious, but they aren't tasty.

 Sigvatr wrote:
JWhex, don't take the baits. They might look delicious, but they aren't tasty.

I didn't know trolling meant having a different opinion than you.

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
JWhex, don't take the baits. They might look delicious, but they aren't tasty.

I didn't know trolling meant having a different opinion than you.

Well then, you characterized my post as nonsense so I guess that makes you the troll doesnt it?

Also you are posting in a thread you havent read. I gave very good reasons based on published behavioral research why this game would have a vanishingly small number of female players.

If you want to evolve up from troll status maybe you should read that post and critique it with published literature references that contradict my own interpretations, till then you are blowing smoke out of your back pocket.

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
JWhex, don't take the baits. They might look delicious, but they aren't tasty.

I didn't know trolling meant having a different opinion than you.

I did not refer to you

JWhex wrote:
@Miguel
Here is an example of something I want: Alliances that are plausible within the framework of the background.

Chaos Marines allied with Space Marines is an IMMERSION KILLER for me.

He didn't really explain it as an alliance. More of a ceasefire wherein two factions temporarily put aside their differences to take out the other factions, before going and fighting each other all-out. In terms of table-top, maybe imagine it more like a "desperate allies" relationship rather than a "battle brothers" one?

Though granted, I share your feelings about it from a fluff perspective. It could result in some very lore-breaking combinations. I do, however, like the sound of a mechanic that allows politics like that, so I'm just about prepared to accept it, personally.

JWhex wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
JWhex, don't take the baits. They might look delicious, but they aren't tasty.

I didn't know trolling meant having a different opinion than you.

Well then, you characterized my post as nonsense so I guess that makes you the troll doesnt it?

OK I'll admit my language was inflammatory.

Also you are posting in a thread you haven't read. I gave very good reasons based on published behavioral research why this game would have a vanishingly small number of female players.

Yes, the game may not be a big hit with females but you said that "Female players will be rarer in frequency than they are in the tabletop game" but since the game hasn't been released yet you can't know for certain if this is true or not. Also prove it, that I haven't been reading this thread, I dare you.

If you want to evolve up from troll status maybe you should read that post and critique it with published literature references that contradict my own interpretations, till then you are blowing smoke out of your back pocket.

Why would I need literature references to explain that people usually perceive space marines as male and that not everyone is super concerned about the physical appearance of female characters? Those aren't hard to believe statements.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
JWhex, don't take the baits. They might look delicious, but they aren't tasty.

I didn't know trolling meant having a different opinion than you.

I did not refer to you

Alright, OK still many people are to quick to call troll when it could just a case of differing views or being a contrarian you need to prove that the intent was to primarily inflame.

I fully agree and both of us have been around long enough to see it happen quite often - no offense taken here, still like you :*

 Cheesecat wrote:

JWhex wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
JWhex, don't take the baits. They might look delicious, but they aren't tasty.

I didn't know trolling meant having a different opinion than you.

Well then, you characterized my post as nonsense so I guess that makes you the troll doesnt it?

OK I'll admit my language was inflammatory.

Also you are posting in a thread you haven't read. I gave very good reasons based on published behavioral research why this game would have a vanishingly small number of female players.

Yes, the game may not be a big hit with females but you said that "Female players will be rarer in frequency than they are in the tabletop game" but since the game hasn't been released yet you can't know for certain if this is true or not. Also prove it, that I haven't been reading this thread, I dare you.

If you want to evolve up from troll status maybe you should read that post and critique it with published literature references that contradict my own interpretations, till then you are blowing smoke out of your back pocket.

Why would I need literature references to explain that people usually perceive space marines as male and that not everyone is super concerned about the physical appearance of female characters? Those aren't hard to believe statements.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
JWhex, don't take the baits. They might look delicious, but they aren't tasty.

I didn't know trolling meant having a different opinion than you.

I did not refer to you

Alright, OK still many people are to quick to call troll when it could just a case of differing views or being a contrarian you need to prove that the intent was to primarily inflame.

OK I will take your dare because you proved for me you havent read the thread because my assertions about the likely frequency of female players has nothing to do with:

"Why would I need literature references to explain that people usually perceive space marines as male and that not everyone is super concerned about the physical appearance of female characters? Those aren't hard to believe statements."

If you had read the thread, including the post I am referring to you would not have made the statement quoted above unless you have recently inhaled a very large amount of smoke from burning the plant in your avatar.

When is the beta going to be available? And where will i be able to sign up? Will it be open or applicant-based?

Probably a long way to go seeing that the release is due in almost 2.5 years and we haven't seen anything of the actual game yet

I'd say ~2 years.

JWhex wrote:
OK I will take your dare because you proved for me you havent read the thread because my assertions about the likely frequency of female players has nothing to do with:

"Why would I need literature references to explain that people usually perceive space marines as male and that not everyone is super concerned about the physical appearance of female characters? Those aren't hard to believe statements."

If you had read the thread, including the post I am referring to you would not have made the statement quoted above unless you have recently inhaled a very large amount of smoke from burning the plant in your avatar.

But talking about whether or not this game will be popular with females wasn't the only thing you also said, you said Mel could pretend she is a female space marine to which I said doesn't work because one it be will voiced by male actors and and two others will see the

space marine as a male character not a female, in order pass as the role of a certain gender you must be able to convince others that you or your character is that gender and if you can't then you haven't done a good performance on that gender role. You said this as well "I really am just

not buying the line that Tau plus Eldar at launch is some huge improvement because then you have two possible female races and thus it is soooooo much better then. The Tau are strange looking descendants of bovine appearing herbivores, this helps your roleplaying as a female

how?" too which I replied that not everyone is concerned about female Tau having bovine features and yes it does help Mel with playing a female because it gives her more female choices. Also if you click the "filter thread" button on my name you'll see I have been responding in this

thread for awhile and have at least read some of it.

Female marines can not be reasonably described as "bending the lore a little bit".

That assumes that one considers Space Marines to be a central, core part of 40k (I don't), and that having a penis is a core part of what it means to be a Space Marine (which is silly and makes me giggle).

But let's not let this thread devolve in to people raging about female Space Marines again.

And Cheesecat is right. The Space Marine will have a masculine voice, and so it will be immersion-breaking to try to pretend to be the space marine. I can deal with it and still enjoy the game to an extent I am quite sure (seeing as the overwhelming majority of games, including the ones in my library of games, have male protagonists, this goes without saying-- although apparently I still have to say it no matter how obvious it is, people are dense on this topic, go figure), but I have no desire to do so when I can play better games instead.

Essentially, it's the same problem that CoD/Battlefield have. Why the feth would I want to play one of their games and have to force myself in to immersing as a dude when I could play a game like, say, Blacklight: Retribution, and NOT have to force myself in to immersing as a dude. They have failed go give a reason for me to give a feth so I'm not buying their most recent editions to their series. I have limited funds, and those funds must always go to games that have features I want instead of "features" I don't want, like "you get to play as generic mr. whitey mcblandypants who you don't give a damn about but the game wants you to pretend that you're him, IE 99% of all shooters today)..

 Melissia wrote:

Female marines can not be reasonably described as "bending the lore a little bit".

That assumes that one considers Space Marines to be a central, core part of 40k (I don't), and that having a penis is a core part of what it means to be a Space Marine (which is silly and makes me giggle).

But let's not let this thread devolve in to people raging about female Space Marines again.

It is atm, but it doesn't have to be.

There's really no argument to be had about bending lore or "imagining" female space marines. When I play SM, the character(s) I play are exact copies of the miniatures I own or would like to own because I have a stronger connection to them (Mel is therefore right about immersion). I suspect that those who invest a large amount of time in their game with ever higher amounts of customization do similar things. Its well established lore that SM's are male and forcing them not to be would simply shift this pendulum of an argument into the other field of opinion. (The boys are also right)

There are simpler solutions than trading this annoyance between our opinions of the Astartes. One chiefly being that it does not lie within the current path we tread....

Maybe we should think outside the box....

 Melissia wrote:

Female marines can not be reasonably described as "bending the lore a little bit".

That assumes that one considers Space Marines to be a central, core part of 40k (I don't), and that having a penis is a core part of what it means to be a Space Marine (which is silly and makes me giggle).

.

Melissa, I am more than sure you are very well educated and intelligent but comments like the one above really are discredit to you and make you look foolish.

Like it or Space Marines are a central and core part of 40k, to say otherwise is just asinine, and your case it is trolling because as I said you are obviously a smart person and know that they are central and core to the IP.

And no, having a penis is not core to what it means to be a space marine. Indeed this actually an extremely sexist remark to make and I am calling you on it not because it offends me but it is extremely hypocritical and sexist of you. It is no different than for a man to say, "a clitoris is a core part of what it means to be a woman (or Sister of Battle)". This is a perfect example where your purely contrarian approach to discussing 40k has led you to say something completely boneheaded.

Actually no one knows whether Space Marines have a functional penis and indeed the process of going from normal human to space marine could very well shrivel up their penis and testicles and make them giggleworthy. The absence of any attraction to human females has been a nearly constant feature of the background since the beginning and I am still waiting for someone such as yourself to invent something like the "Raging Eunuchs" chapter.

My son used to say a lot of outrageous things like you do, or something that was just contradictory for no other reason than to be contrary.

The problem is I cant take you seriously, and I am sure many others dont because you simply are being a contrarian.

The entire female Space Marine discussion is a joke and I did not even expect Melissia to come up with such complete nonsense. Not only do you deny the fact that SM are the core of 40k (....what.), you would also take completely breaking the game's lore into consideration just for your very own selfish needs?

Wow.

If anyone feels offended for not having a female option, that person is wrong to begin with as there ARE female characters, that person does not realize that females are FAR from being the target audience for the game and that person does not realize that the world doesn't turn around him- / herself.

Everyone has issues with the game, I am 100% sure on that. If those issues, however, should make you turn your back at the game...so be it. Not your type of game?

#dealwithit

In regards to the actual game, I'd be interested in the scope - will we have persistent maps? Will we have different maps that are somehow connected e.g. via portals or is there one persistent world where I could e.g. walk from one end to the other?

I'd prefer the latter but it'd be extremely hard to focus on certain parts of the world in order to have crowded battlefields. Guild Wars 2, imo, did a great job at it.

Space Marines aren't the core of 40k but they are probably the most iconic part of it...
It'd be nice to have male and female options in the factions where that applies... even though that's almost only guard...
It'd be better to have the various parts of the Imperium as classes and spec into certain roles rather than standalone factions.
E.g. I make a female Imperial. The classes availible to me are, Inquisitor, Guardsman, Sister of Battle and Mechanicus Adept. I choose Sister of Battle and can then spec into certain roles such as celestian or seraphim.
Not entirely sure how workable it would be for other factions though...
Maybe different bonuses for different clans/septs/craftworlds or a special class for different chaos warbands...

I think that this is both the most reasonable way to work it out and is the most likely thing to happen.

It might be reasonable but I have doubts as to whether it's the most likely course...

 Sigvatr wrote:
The entire female Space Marine discussion is a joke and I did not even expect Melissia to come up with such complete nonsense. Not only do you deny the fact that SM are the core of 40k (....what.), you would also take completely breaking the game's lore into consideration just for your very own selfish needs?

Wow.

If anyone feels offended for not having a female option, that person is wrong to begin with as there ARE female characters, that person does not realize that females are FAR from being the target audience for the game and that person does not realize that the world doesn't turn around him- / herself.

Everyone has issues with the game, I am 100% sure on that. If those issues, however, should make you turn your back at the game...so be it. Not your type of game?

#dealwithit

In regards to the actual game, I'd be interested in the scope - will we have persistent maps? Will we have different maps that are somehow connected e.g. via portals or is there one persistent world where I could e.g. walk from one end to the other?

I'd prefer the latter but it'd be extremely hard to focus on certain parts of the world in order to have crowded battlefields. Guild Wars 2, imo, did a great job at it.

There is an old saying, "Beyond the Pale". That is pretty much where Melissa has gone, and for no good reason.

 purplefood wrote:
Space Marines aren't the core of 40k but they are probably the most iconic part of it...

Technically, they are. The Imperium of Man, which the setting is based around, was formed after the Horus Heresy, wherein nearly half of the Space Marine Legions went traitor. That's a pretty big event for a faction that isn't core to 40k. Granted, they may not be the core, you could argue that claim goes to the IoM itself, but they certainly play a big role in the setting.

I mostly referred to SM being GW posterboys. The only logical conclusion therefor is to maintain that focus.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
Space Marines aren't the core of 40k but they are probably the most iconic part of it...

Technically, they are. The Imperium of Man, which the setting is based around, was formed after the Horus Heresy, wherein nearly half of the Space Marine Legions went traitor. That's a pretty big event for a faction that isn't core to 40k. Granted, they may not be the core, you could argue that claim goes to the IoM itself, but they certainly play a big role in the setting.

It was half the Space Marine Legions, half the mechanicus, half the titan legios, half the navy and half the imperial army...
It was not a Space Marine only event, the SM led the rebellion though which is fairly important but even so they aren't the core of 40k. They are certainly iconic or poster boys as Sig says but there isn't any 1 faction which is the core of 40k.
I don't think it's logical for them to keep focussing on SM when there is so much you can do aside from them...

 purplefood wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
Space Marines aren't the core of 40k but they are probably the most iconic part of it...

Technically, they are. The Imperium of Man, which the setting is based around, was formed after the Horus Heresy, wherein nearly half of the Space Marine Legions went traitor. That's a pretty big event for a faction that isn't core to 40k. Granted, they may not be the core, you could argue that claim goes to the IoM itself, but they certainly play a big role in the setting.

It was half the Space Marine Legions, half the mechanicus, half the titan legios, half the navy and half the imperial army...
It was not a Space Marine only event, the SM led the rebellion though which is fairly important but even so they aren't the core of 40k. They are certainly iconic or poster boys as Sig says but there isn't any 1 faction which is the core of 40k.
I don't think it's logical for them to keep focussing on SM when there is so much you can do aside from them...

Good point. Would the Horus Heresy have happened though without the Space Marines?
I agree though they need to focus on more factions other than the Space Marines. Adeptus Arbites would be interesting.

Arbites would be pretty cool but it would be an after thought...
I'd prefer they had all the factions get good starting classes etc before they added something like arbites...

 purplefood wrote:
Arbites would be pretty cool but it would be an after thought...
I'd prefer they had all the factions get good starting classes etc before they added something like arbites...

Arbites aren't an army per se anyway, they're basically like super-FBI or something.