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 minigun762 wrote:

Other option could be adding a DA. .

If you're ever inclined to use a Dark Apostle, try and find the points for literally anything else with Fearless. It will always be better.

 minigun762 wrote:
Is it worth spending the points on a power weapon for the champion?

possibly, if by power weapon you mean lightning claw.

I have always wanted to run CSM Blob units as troops.

The main question is Bolter vs. CCW/Pistol.
-They always need fearless from some sort of upgrade (icon or HQ).
- Keep the pretty cheap, no more than 320 points I'd say.

Anyone every consider parking 2 20 man CSM units in the center of the table holding 2 objectives and have the rest of your army bring chaos to the enemy, while their are around 40 bolters shooting each turn, even more if targets get close.

I think its a good options for CSM troops other than PM, blob CSM units are the next choice for my army.

Also, saving a little points in larger games by have 2 troop units, allow for better points spent with other units or even allied forces. I can fit the BT I have always wanted to cause chaos with!

Any thoughts on 2 blob units. or it one enough?

The 20 strong gigantoblob works just fine. Gives you a reason to take fabius honestly, because having 20 S5 marines with 3 attacks on the charge, as well as fearless w/o a banner, is great! If you're feeling extra special you can give them MoK and an icon of wrath. Hello potential 120 S6 attacks on the charge!

CannedKhorne wrote:
I have always wanted to run CSM Blob units as troops.

The main question is Bolter vs. CCW/Pistol.
-They always need fearless from some sort of upgrade (icon or HQ).
- Keep the pretty cheap, no more than 320 points I'd say.

Anyone every consider parking 2 20 man CSM units in the center of the table holding 2 objectives and have the rest of your army bring chaos to the enemy, while their are around 40 bolters shooting each turn, even more if targets get close.

I think its a good options for CSM troops other than PM, blob CSM units are the next choice for my army.

Also, saving a little points in larger games by have 2 troop units, allow for better points spent with other units or even allied forces. I can fit the BT I have always wanted to cause chaos with!

Any thoughts on 2 blob units. or it one enough?

The biggest competition for CSM blob squad is the fact you can add cheap cultists or daemons to do something similar.
For example, 600 points buys you 40 Fearless CSMs. For the same 600 points you could have 20 Fearless CSMs in Rhinos and 20 Plaguebearers, who are basically MEQs in cover.

Tough choice. Might depend on if you're infantry heavy or armor heavy army.

CannedKhorne wrote:
I have always wanted to run CSM Blob units as troops.

The main question is Bolter vs. CCW/Pistol.
-They always need fearless from some sort of upgrade (icon or HQ).
- Keep the pretty cheap, no more than 320 points I'd say.

Anyone every consider parking 2 20 man CSM units in the center of the table holding 2 objectives and have the rest of your army bring chaos to the enemy, while their are around 40 bolters shooting each turn, even more if targets get close.

I think its a good options for CSM troops other than PM, blob CSM units are the next choice for my army.

Also, saving a little points in larger games by have 2 troop units, allow for better points spent with other units or even allied forces. I can fit the BT I have always wanted to cause chaos with!

Any thoughts on 2 blob units. or it one enough?

You can mix the squad with some bolters...I would do 5/ 20 with bolters...

It's only 300 with MoS...but you are taking fabius if that's the case...465 or 1/4 of your 1850...

That's why I run the slaanesh lord as well...outflank with acute senses...

I typically take a 1st/2nd rd beating, but when they show up, the oh hell moment arises...any surviving models on my gun line typically live the rest of the game

It's very interesting to see how many are for running huge squads of Chaos Space Marines. Would you consider running them in a Spartan Land Raider?

It's more expensive than a normal one but its' cost should be compared to two Rhinos or more likely to two Land Raiders. One of the downsides is also that it takes up a Heavy support choice and then there's the question, do you even want them in a Spartan Land Raider when they could be outside soaking up damage?

 minigun762 wrote:

For example, 600 points buys you 40 Fearless CSMs. For the same 600 points you could have 20 Fearless CSMs in Rhinos and 20 Plaguebearers, who are basically MEQs in cover.

This math doesn't work out. You can't just have Plaguebearers without including some superfluous HQ choice somewhere, and those aren't free.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:

For example, 600 points buys you 40 Fearless CSMs. For the same 600 points you could have 20 Fearless CSMs in Rhinos and 20 Plaguebearers, who are basically MEQs in cover.

This math doesn't work out. You can't just have Plaguebearers without including some superfluous HQ choice somewhere, and those aren't free.

Yes and no. If you include CSM HQ options like Bile, it adds a similar cost as adding a cheap Herald, so they are close enough to compare.

But you're right, it's not a perfect comparison.

I don't mean to belabor the point since you saw what I was getting at, but CSM can be Fearless without any outside interference by way of an Icon.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
I don't mean to belabor the point since you saw what I was getting at, but CSM can be Fearless without any outside interference by way of an Icon.

You're absolutely right.

And I don't want to go off into a tangent discussion so I'll just say that daemon troops give us some equivalent options to CSM blobs, so they are worth considering as well.

 minigun762 wrote:
I'm flirting with the idea of a large squad of BP&CCW marines in with IoV who march up the board. Since you can't assault from Rhinos, why not just footslog it.
Probably give them flamer for overwatch or melta for tanks. Champ will have some kind of power weapon, I'm not sure.

FauxZerkers with 2 melta guns, IoW, Champ with a claw and combimelta and Kharn have done solid work for me. I didn't have enough dice to roll all of their attacks in one go (first time I've ever had "Ork Levels of dice". I see the appeal.)

That's really the way to look at CSMs, Orks in power armor.

Yep, that's what Chaos Space Marines are degraded to. GW apparently aren't fond of the image that Chaos Space Marines have kept their martial pride and that they still earn respect. Now they're reduced to how Abnett shows them in his books and in Ultramarines the movie. So sad and boring.

How about that Spartan Land Raider?

 Trevak Dal wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:
I'm flirting with the idea of a large squad of BP&CCW marines in with IoV who march up the board. Since you can't assault from Rhinos, why not just footslog it.
Probably give them flamer for overwatch or melta for tanks. Champ will have some kind of power weapon, I'm not sure.

FauxZerkers with 2 melta guns, IoW, Champ with a claw and combimelta and Kharn have done solid work for me. I didn't have enough dice to roll all of their attacks in one go (first time I've ever had "Ork Levels of dice". I see the appeal.)

That's really the way to look at CSMs, Orks in power armor.

Do you run your CSM with Kharn in a landraider or blob squad?

minigun762 wrote:MoS is only worth it as a method to get IoE but we already have IoV.

Was about to comment on this, until...

Exergy wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:
I'm flirting with the idea of a large squad of BP&CCW marines in with IoV who march up the board. Since you can't assault from Rhinos, why not just footslog it.
Probably give them flamer for overwatch or melta for tanks. Champ will have some kind of power weapon, I'm not sure.

why is Fabulous Bill not in the conversation? He makes 1 blob fearless and gives them the option to take MoS and IoE. Str5 init 5, 60 attacks on the charge
he can then sit in a different blob and give them fearless.

This guy...

jifel wrote:Why not 20 Fabius marines with Mark of Nurgle? Good luck killing that.

And this guy...

buddha wrote:Add Huron (for infiltrate) and a lvl3 unmarked sorc who rolls on telepathy. That sorc has a better than average change of getting invisibility which will turn that blob from scary to OMFG! I can't hurt it.

Don't mark the unit though as it is just a waste overall.

And finally this guy (sort of)...

The best three HQs to choose from for blob armies in my experience are Fabius, Huron, and the Telepathy Sorcerer. You'll have to pick which two suit you best (I've enjoyed Fabius and Huron together more because I seem to always hit Perils), but they really have great potential for force multiplying that only gets better with two large CSM squads. Huron and Fabius together can actually strength 3 squads if you find a way to do that.

Expensive? Of course it is. But we have very cheap/point-effective units in Cultists, Havocs and Helldrakes to make up for it, so it doesn't bother me one bit.

Considering the success people seem to be having with CSM blobs I don't understand why Rhino rush isn't working. It should be basically the same kind of tactics accept for 35 points you get 18" more real estate turn one + an additional target to shoot at.

I mean, blobs aren't assaulting before turn 3 either right? It's always seemed to me that 6 Rhinos loaded with dudes, all Turbo Boosting turn one, then what ever is still moving move+disembark turn 2, and start threatening assault turn 3 would be a pretty solid tactic. Of course, you would need to mix in some Spawn, or Bikes, or FMCs, or hounds or cavalry from Demons to make it work, give you something threaten assault turn 2 to take the heat off of your turn 3 wave...

Anyway, the potential seems to be there. I've never seen a CSM player commit to it though, so curious why that doesn't seem to work (or at least nobody is using it), by blobs hoofing all the way across the board does?

ShadarLogoth wrote:
Considering the success people seem to be having with CSM blobs I don't understand why Rhino rush isn't working. It should be basically the same kind of tactics accept for 35 points you get 18" more real estate turn one + an additional target to shoot at.

I mean, blobs aren't assaulting before turn 3 either right? It's always seemed to me that 6 Rhinos loaded with dudes, all Turbo Boosting turn one, then what ever is still moving move+disembark turn 2, and start threatening assault turn 3 would be a pretty solid tactic. Of course, you would need to mix in some Spawn, or Bikes, or FMCs, or hounds or cavalry from Demons to make it work, give you something threaten assault turn 2 to take the heat off of your turn 3 wave...

Anyway, the potential seems to be there. I've never seen a CSM player commit to it though, so curious why that doesn't seem to work (or at least nobody is using it), by blobs hoofing all the way across the board does?

It's that Rhinos are pretty easy to kill. You as a Necron horde player should know how easy it is to strip a Rhino of it's hull points and leave those ten chaos space marines standing around like KOWARDZ AND FEWLZ once the safety of their METUL BAWKSES has been TAKEN AWAY.

ShadarLogoth wrote:
Considering the success people seem to be having with CSM blobs I don't understand why Rhino rush isn't working. It should be basically the same kind of tactics accept for 35 points you get 18" more real estate turn one + an additional target to shoot at.

Two words -- first blood.

That mechanic means that you can easily lose the game by bringing a vehicle that's easy to kill.

*double post

I'm not so worried about first blood with rhinos as I am about the other effects. Popping a rhino can create a piece of terrain that can slow down an assault unit much worse than not being in a rhino. And just about everytime I see a rhino popped there is a template wielding unit just waiting for those poor passengers. I'm good with no rhinos, especially when I can buy more guys with those points.

On the 20 man mega-blob, I think it would make some real strides for assault. I can also see banners as being more bang for you buck with more guys, but you'll pay for it in marks before that. I could see both bolters and cc units having benefits. I would keep them all one, and just keep the unit focused to task.

I think 40 marines all with bolters sitting at mid-field is a strong defensive tactic, all shoot units hold mid-field and have fast assault units progress forward.

Huron or Fabius for HQ? I don't fabius is a good choice, Huron for infiltrate is nice.

Thoughts on 36 bolters, 2 PG, and 2 Autocannons shooting at mid-field? I think it is a good amount of fire power for troops...

I apologize for not reading every post leading up to the last and then commenting with opinion, but I have done it. It works well if you have Huron as HQ and he infiltrates the squad as close as you can get them. If you get 2 units you can throw him in or a chaplain (csm version). I'd prefer him because he has the heavy flamer for large units, and he is anti tank too, so throw some plasma or meltas in the squad and infiltrate them as close as can be and march them to the closest unit you can get too.

I play night lords, so i like the idea of being able to get a big squad (or maybe even two) as close as can be, and rushing them in. The trick is to have other targets the are juicy too, so he isn't focusing everything on the big unit right on his door step.

All this talk of Fabulous Bill is making me want to take him along with Huron. Infiltrating a big bad blob of enhanced marines could be very tasty. I'd still be losing out on Sorcerer utility.

 gpfunk wrote:
All this talk of Fabulous Bill is making me want to take him along with Huron. Infiltrating a big bad blob of enhanced marines could be very tasty. I'd still be losing out on Sorcerer utility.

Yep, it sounds very fun to play and could be competitive for some army builds.

I think Huron infiltrate is a solid tactic to use hold mid-field and dish out some serious support fire along with oblitz and helldrake.

It sounds like its worth trying out with Huron.
I would probably do 3 squads with Huron though.

Fabius makes squad 1 fearless by joining them (Fearless confers)
Fabius makes squad 2 fearless with his special ability.
Huron makes squad 3 fearless by joining them

You think 3 big blobs of CSM is too much, or are you saying for smaller squads?

Thoughts on Bolters or CCW?

 CannedKhorne wrote:
You think 3 big blobs of CSM is too much, or are you saying for smaller squads?

Thoughts on Bolters or CCW?

I think 3 is fine as long as you remember that a significant amount of your anti-infantry and anti-tank/TEQ (depending on the weapon) will be coming from your troops. That bothers people for some reason, that their troops actually provide significant firepower. Not I. Hard to do at 1K and under, but very flexible in 1.5K and up games.

I generally run two squads and I keep BOTH the CCW AND the Bolter. It's a bit more expensive, but I'm getting my money's worth every turn, especially if I get a good infiltrate roll. If I was to throw in a third Fabulous Bill squad I'd probably roll with two CSM squads with just bolters locking down midfield and then give the Bill Squad only the CCW, as they want to be making as much use of their enhancements as possible.

In a game that favors shooting, on the whole I would take Bolters + CCW for the additional points cost. The idea is you're adding melee effectiveness to a very shooty squad instead of removing shooting efficiency and cheapening them.

 gpfunk wrote:

 CannedKhorne wrote:
You think 3 big blobs of CSM is too much, or are you saying for smaller squads?

Thoughts on Bolters or CCW?

I think 3 is fine as long as you remember that a significant amount of your anti-infantry and anti-tank/TEQ (depending on the weapon) will be coming from your troops. That bothers people for some reason, that their troops actually provide significant firepower. Not I. Hard to do at 1K and under, but very flexible in 1.5K and up games.

I generally run two squads and I keep BOTH the CCW AND the Bolter. It's a bit more expensive, but I'm getting my money's worth every turn, especially if I get a good infiltrate roll. If I was to throw in a third Fabulous Bill squad I'd probably roll with two CSM squads with just bolters locking down midfield and then give the Bill Squad only the CCW, as they want to be making as much use of their enhancements as possible.

In a game that favors shooting, on the whole I would take Bolters + CCW for the additional points cost. The idea is you're adding melee effectiveness to a very shooty squad instead of removing shooting efficiency and cheapening them.

Makes perfect scene. How many points do your squads come to?

Noise marines can work in blobs, I think. I've never tried the full 20, but it shouldn't be worse than 15...

Infiltrating a blob of NM within 18" gives them an impressive opening volley to knock out infantry on foot. I play against someone who's fond of sticking pathfinders behind an aegis. One turn of NM shooting and the pathfinders evaporate. That's a big win for the rest of the army.

It's the only situation I've ever found sonic blasters to be worth the investment.

I don't like having to invest 300+ points in your HQ selection. That's my concern.