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6th and 7th editions are considered by some to have been the best time to be playing Warhammer and since 8th edition many people have dropped out of the game.

If Games Workshop were to release in Living Rulebook format (free to download with yearly/quarterly tweaks) the complete rules for Warhammer 7th edition (this would include all army lists), would you start playing the game again?

With family life taking up most of my time haven't been able to play wargames much if at all the last few years, but I'm actively trying to get back to the table in some form. Malifaux and Infinity are the games that have my attention right now in large part due to their rules being available for free on-line. Part of me would like to give Warhammer or 40k a shot, but with $75 rulebooks (not even sure if that's right) and $50 armybooks/codeci I am priced out of those games for now.

If, however, GW were to release those rules in that way, I would seriously be tempted to get to the table again and could probably wrangle up some players too.

I know I could just get the old rules and try to get a group together, but if GW were to make it easy for people to get models to the table I'd be more inclined to try and even buy some figures from them.

I'd think that maintaining a living rules set would be less intensive/costly for them than regularly re-writing and re-publishing the rulebooks. They could keep up with their current editions and revisions, but if they created a "Living" edition, it might be a good way to keep veteran players interested in the game and buying models from them.

Total wishlisting, I know, but I just lament not caring about Warhammer anymore.

I'd prefer 6th edition if we could balance out the few things that were wrong with it.

8th edition isn't terrible, but it's not as good as previous editions.

I dont think you can objectively call 8th as better or worse than 7th. They are different. Charging rules in 8th edition are considered to be a huge improvement by everyone I know that has played a few games.

The real issue with seventh edition was the army books were horribly out of balance and unfortunately we are heading that way in 8th.

8th has its big problem with certain spells that people just spam 6 dice to get IF and I am not a fan that steadfast cannot be disrupted. The step up rule in 8th is a huge improvement to the game. I honestly think if you evaluate the two editions objectively you will find some flaws and benefits to both editions. You dont really gain anything by playing 7th edition except some possible awkward rule conflicts with new army books. If you are going to use 7th edition army books then you will be playing with a system many people characterize as far worse than 8th on account of the demons, skaven and dark elves.

Despite all your polling options what really drives the decision to play a particular rule set is what your local opponents are willing to adopt.

By the way I just did a quick "Island blood warhammer" search on ebay and found the 9th edition rules at a buy it now price of 24 dollars, likewise you could probably find 40k minirule books for a similar price. I feel your pain on the 50 dollar codex/armybook price. I used to buy practically every codex/army book, now I dont even buy them for all my armies, if I am not actively playing the army in the tournament scene.

Hell no, no way do I want to face a VC army that rocks up with 30 power dice at 1500 points, never again.

I do not play Fantasy - but I have quite a few friends that did/do. Many of them left when 8th came out, but I have seen quite a few of them trickling back into it as they get over the changes. Many of them have said it is really quite fun once they let go of their preconceptions.

I wouldn't actually mind trying it - I just don't have time for multiple game systems.

Yes, single models frequently destroying entire armies of their own was incredibly fun to play.

/irony

To be honest, I've had more fun playing 8th. Does it have issues? Yup. So did 7th. Tweak things to tone down large unts and magical nukes, and its a goo edition.

8th is better.


The end

I never played 7th ed.
I played 3rd ed before I played 8th.

Yes, just a small gap there. I had no army (my 3rd Ed Wood elf army had been stolen and I didn't see replacing it as cost-effective when I had my 40k stuff as well to play with).

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
To be honest, I've had more fun playing 8th. Does it have issues? Yup. So did 7th. Tweak things to tone down large unts and magical nukes, and its a goo edition.

Yep, pretty much.

I prefer 8th. It wasn't worse, just different. Once you get past the learning curve of differences, it a fine game.

No different from the rabble from the changes between 5th & 6th.

I prefer 7th. 6th was good but I hated models lapping around (it's too messy and somebody---usually me----usually screws it up).

The army books kept getting so crazy later on that I finally gave up, though.

privateer4hire wrote:
I prefer 7th. 6th was good but I hated models lapping around (it's too messy and somebody---usually me----usually screws it up).

The army books kept getting so crazy later on that I finally gave up, though.

I actually liked the lapping around rule, but I can see why some people would have trouble with it.

I think I am in the minority here... but I preferred 5th!

Around the time 6th edition WHFB and 3rd edition 40k came out I felt a bit disillusioned with both systems (it felt to me like the 'soul' of the games had gone), and I stopped playing both for maybe 6-7 years. I like the more recent editions, but 5th WHFB/2nd 40k are still my favourite.

People left WHFB because of 8th. People spoke with their wallets.

Regardless of having the return of 7th ED, GW will not be able to reclaim the customers that they have lost.

They deserve all that they get.

 chromedog wrote:
I never played 7th ed.
I played 3rd ed before I played 8th.

Yes, just a small gap there. I had no army (my 3rd Ed Wood elf army had been stolen and I didn't see replacing it as cost-effective when I had my 40k stuff as well to play with).

I still enjoy 3rd. My poor, battered hardcover has seen better days, and, oh, how I wish that I still had MacDeath....

The balance was horrible, but the game was so much fun.

The Auld Grump

I know there were issues with 7th where some things were broken or overpowered, but if they went with the Living Rulebook idea and revised things on a yearly basis they'd be able to iron out those issues over time.

It would be like a running open playtest.

With Blood Bowl they even had a few levels of rules and some were considered experimental until they became offical.

It feels like that would be a good way to promote interest and encourage people to play the game and discuss it.

 Adam LongWalker wrote:
People left WHFB because of 8th. People spoke with their wallets.

Regardless of having the return of 7th ED, GW will not be able to reclaim the customers that they have lost.

They deserve all that they get.

And plenty of people started or re-started with 8th. They voted with their wallets too. Certainly where I live 8th is more popular.

7th seemed to suffer with a few OP armybooks, 8th seems to suffer with overemphasis on giant infantry units and magic being to potent.

So, some halfway house between them?

 Adam LongWalker wrote:
People left WHFB because of 8th. People spoke with their wallets.

Regardless of having the return of 7th ED, GW will not be able to reclaim the customers that they have lost.

They deserve all that they get.

People leave every edition and some people leave when their army book is updated. However, many new gamers are born every year and there is a new cohort of every age group as well. There was a much greater loss when 6th came out because of the whole army book issue and many people did not want to play with the ravening hordes get you by lists.

Some customers will be reclaimed and have been but no doubt others have moved on to other games or other hobbies. If 9th edition is a really good game it will draw in new blood, if not then whfb will probably continue to decline. A lot of people that left 8th edition just over reacted to some new ideas and if they enjoyed whfb in 7th it is a shame they left.

WHFB is a game enjoyed all over the world by a lot of people and it is kind of selfish for you to hope that it fails.

6th was a great improvement and I liked 7th and thought with a few tweaks that would have been just about right. Loathe 8th. Infact, it shouldn't be called 8th, it should be called Warhammer V2 1st Ed, because it is totally a different game and the rules were designed to sell more models at the cost of game play.

Loathe it to the point that I have virtually sold all my models. I am down to the last bits. To me it lost all its flavor and nuanced tactics. It annoyed right from the start with that overly thick rule book and went downhill from there.

 fullheadofhair wrote:
because it is totally a different game and the rules were designed to sell more models at the cost of game play.

A lot of people said the same thing about 6th when it was announced and discovered we had to buy new Army Books and points costs were on average half what they were in 5th.

Most of those people ended up enjoying the hell out of 6th once they got over the changes.

Incidentally, I've found that most people that said that about 8th have changed their mind once they started playing it regularly, too.

Once of the best ways to get folk back into the game would be to (try and) make the games smaller

The points values of the armies played has kept creeping upwards (they same happens in 40K), so making it harder and harder for new players to get into the game , or older players who no longer have the models to return

Suggesting a smaller basic game (maybe 70-80% of the current standard) with (potentially) a larger apocalypse style split off for those who want 100s of models on the table might be the way to go

 Platuan4th wrote:

 fullheadofhair wrote:
because it is totally a different game and the rules were designed to sell more models at the cost of game play.

A lot of people said the same thing about 6th when it was announced and discovered we had to buy new Army Books and points costs were on average half what they were in 5th.

Most of those people ended up enjoying the hell out of 6th once they got over the changes.

Incidentally, I've found that most people that said that about 8th have changed their mind once they started playing it regularly, too.

I appreciated 6 and 7 from the get go - 5th definitely had its annoyances and issues where there was no answer - very frustrating. I like the move to more units and the fact that more variety of units started appearing on the table. I like the way the FOC worked and the fact that sometimes you were torn between which rare unit you wanted to take because they were so limited.

With 8th, the fourth time of facing a 75+ man unit was enough for me. Rolling that many dice and just getting bogged down was boring. The magic system changes were interesting and I quite liked that and could even see the benefit of losing all those dispel scrolls. But the basic game play was just too boring IMHO and encourage these huge units that were often unkillable or took a huge amount of your army and time to kill them that killing th eunit became boring.

Now I don't own a single GW army and this year, with the changes to BL meaning I havent bought any books, I find that my interest in GW worlds has diminished to the point I haven't actually bought a single GW model.

The massive blocks thing is a problem with the players, not the system per se. We've been playing 8th here with MSU/MMU lists and it's frankly been more fun than 7th was.

I guess it depends on how your meta sees how list building "should be". They tried the massive blocks with a couple support units before I got here and hated that, so they switched to smaller units with more of them and it changed a lot of minds about how good the system is. We keep to the 2400/2500 standard, we've just shifted how we build the list. Orlando's idea of smaller games is good, too.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 fullheadofhair wrote:
because it is totally a different game and the rules were designed to sell more models at the cost of game play.

A lot of people said the same thing about 6th when it was announced and discovered we had to buy new Army Books and points costs were on average half what they were in 5th.

Most of those people ended up enjoying the hell out of 6th once they got over the changes.

Because 6th edition was a genuinely good edition that rewarded varied armies and in depth tactical game play.

8th edition on the other hand should be called "advanced yatsee edition" because all you really do is roll dice and afterwards roll some more dice and whoever rolls the best dice wins!

 Adam LongWalker wrote:
People left WHFB because of 8th. People spoke with their wallets.

Regardless of having the return of 7th ED, GW will not be able to reclaim the customers that they have lost.

They deserve all that they get.

And my point is that people seem to be trickling back to it. Especially in the Northern California/Bay Area scene. They had dismissed it quickly - but now seem to be coming back.

pgmason wrote:

 Adam LongWalker wrote:
People left WHFB because of 8th. People spoke with their wallets.

Regardless of having the return of 7th ED, GW will not be able to reclaim the customers that they have lost.

They deserve all that they get.

And plenty of people started or re-started with 8th. They voted with their wallets too. Certainly where I live 8th is more popular.

I have to agree with this. During 6th and 7th, there was literally no WHFB presence in north metro Atlanta. I remember a tournament I went to that had six people show up, and that was pretty typical, even though WHFB tournaments might happen once a year.

Now, our FLGS has typically 10-11 WHFB tournaments each year. Usually, the only month there isn't a tournament is December. Typical turnout is 20+ We're even trying a Swedish Comp style tournament for the first time on the 23rd, and we already have 14 people signed up (and people hate comp around here). You can find one or more groups of people playing WHFB on just about every day of the week, while during 6th and 7th, you could go literally months without seeing a single pickup game.

From a personal experience, I started playing in 3rd edition in the late 1980's. I didn't play much during the 1990's due to being in college and having no money. I started playing again in 2002. From a game mechanic system, I prefer 8th out of all of the editions I've played, though I really loved the freedom allowed by 3rd. I also miss Dwarf Wizards from 3rd. In all honesty, "step up" fixed the single biggest complaint I had about WHFB since I started playing 25 years ago.

I agree with others that 8th has a few issues. I think the biggest is equating Miscast with IF. Now, there's little disincentive to throwing six dice at an important spell. If it went back to 6-6 being irresistable force and 1-1 being miscast, with miscast trumping IF, then you'd see a lot less of this issue.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
7th seemed to suffer with a few OP armybooks, 8th seems to suffer with overemphasis on giant infantry units and magic being to potent.

So, some halfway house between them?

I'd never go back to 7th due to army book imbalance. But the core rules in 8th need an update. I'm getting back in with chaos dwarfs, but greatly looking forward to 9th edition in 2015 (or, by a miracle, 2014).

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
To be honest, I've had more fun playing 8th. Does it have issues? Yup. So did 7th. Tweak things to tone down large unts and magical nukes, and its a goo edition.

Yep, pretty much.

100% agree, I enjoy 8th more than any of the previous editions I have played (started with 5th)

I enjoy the extra combat flavor, hordes, supporting attacks, and super powerful magic is always fun.