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The Iyanden book finally gave us an idea of what we can expect of the legion/chapter/tribe/craftworld supplements, for good or ill: More pictures and fluff, some reorganization of existing units, additions to wargear and psychic powers. We can expect it to expand a bit upon that, but for now it seems to be the blueprint.

Knowing that, what would you suggest as the core of new factions? A few examples:

Thousand Sons Supplement:
-Unique rules for MoT terminators (inferno bolts, possibly 2 wounds)
-Up to two sorcerers per HQ slot
-Unique Psychinc discipline
-Some new USR's added via unique wargear

Salamanders Supplement:
-No access to Land Speeders
-Ability to have two meltaguns, flamers, multimeltas and heavy flamers in regular Tac squads
-Tu'shan statline as HQ
-Unique psy-discipline, based om Pyromancy, but with powers that don't blow so utterly.

Black Legion Supplement:
-Increased access to different cult troops as scoring in the same list
-Unique Warlord Traits table
-New wargear for chaos lord to represent them being Abaddon's elite

Word Bringers
-New wargear for Dark Apostles
-Greater ability to ally with the Daemons book (0-2 HQ and 2-3 troop limit?)
-Modified Rewards of Chaos table

Speed Freaks Ork Supplement:
-Units of bikes count as scoring
-Unique Warlord table focusing on ignoring terrain, improving turbo-boosts and Hammer of Wrath
-Unique wargear in the form of special bikes and bling for your biker Warboss.
-Different Waaaagh! ability.

The Black Sun Speed Freaks Supplement
Doesn't need to happen. The only thing it would do is give Orks an Allied Regiment so and so only an extra HQ.

IA 8 Dread Mob list already grants this if you can add the cost in, because you can only take so many warbikes. a Warboss and Big Mek already have this upgrade option.

Of everything the Orks don't have going for them, Their biggest Strength right now is their Speed Freaks

Orks should get a Wildboyz or Freebooter Suppliment

Some ideas for the Imperial Guard

Steel Legion: Overall a very mobile ground force to represent the steel legion and other mech heavy regiments
-Lose vendettas
-Chimeras can take turret autocannons for 5 points
-Any infantry unit (including HWS and SWS) can take a chimera as a dedicated transport
-Can take grenadiers as troops (storm troopers without the special operations)
-Any vehicle can be upgraded to a veteran crew giving it BS 4
-New warlord chart focusing on vehicle mobility (eg. any heavy vehicles can move 6+D3" instead of just 6")

Catachans: Represent Catachans and other Guard forces relying on mobility and light infantry
-Lose storm troopers
-Veterans can take poison autoguns (str x lasgun) or close combat weapons
-Veterans can take an upgrade allowing them to infiltrate
-Infantry squads cannot blob
-Veterans, guard squads, special weapon squads, heavy weapon squads, and command squads can take an upgrade giving them move through cover
-Ordinance weapons can be upgraded with prometheum shells (6 str, 4 AP, ignores cover, same range as regular shells from the same vehicle)
-New warlord chart focusing on abilities such as infiltrate, scouts, and move through cover

Traitor Guard: Represents all manner of professional traitor guard, men and women trained by the Imperium who turned their back on it
-All units except vehicles can take marks of Chaos
-Replace Lord Commissar with Champion of Chaos with similar abilities and equipment options
-Replace priests with Apostate Preachers
-Replace Commissars with Chaos enforcers
-New elites choice, Daemonhost
-New psychic powers chart
-New command chart focusing more on aspects of chaos that might cause one to fall (eg. berserker, the warlord's unit gains the furious charge special rule)

Planetary Defence Force: Represents relatively poorly trained and equipped PDFs
-Lose access to plasma guns and lascannons
-Lose Storm Troopers
-Conscripts can be taken as independent troop choices
-New unit, Biker gangs (swarms of guardsmen on bikes with autoguns, stub pistols, and shotguns)
-New unit, Court Assassin (pretty much an assassin hired by nobles to kill other nobles, a cheap vindicare for the most part)
-New HQ choice, planetary governor (huge stubborn bubble, top of the line upgrade equipment, including power armour)
-Special elite guards for a planetary governor (pretty much WS/BS 4 warrior acolytes as far as equipment options go)
-New Heavy weapon choice, heavy stubber

Mordian Iron Guard:

Special rule - Volley Fire! : When an enemy makes a cover or armour save against a shooting attack from a squad with this rule, subtract one from the dice roll.

Special rule - Wall of Iron: Units with this special rule have the Counter-Attack USR.

Jauran Dragoons:

May not take platoons (recruited exclusively from the nobility)
Veteran sergeants have +1WS and may take:

Antique Pistol - 10pts (S6 AP5, +1 to pinning tests)
Antique Armour - 5pts (+1 armour save in challenges)
Power Rapier - 15pts (S 4 AP 4, +1 attack in challenges)

Company Command Squad has the Nobility special rule.

Nobility - at the start of turn 1, roll a D6. Consult the chart below to see the effects on the company commander

1 - Inbred. -1 Ld
2-3 - Military family +1 WS
4-5 - Huntsman - +1 BS
6 - Man of the people +1ld

In additon, the Company Commander may take a Poacher regimental advisor for 30 points. The poacher has the same statline as the Astropath, and makes the company command squad's shooting attacks twin-linked against infantry models whilst alive.

Honestly a power rapier should be 10 points like other IG power weapons and is fairly weak, +1 strength, AP 4, and +1 attack in a duel is probably inferior to say a power maul (+2 strength AP 4) or a power lance (+1 str AP 3 on the charge). If you want it to be 15 points at least make it AP 3 if not AP 2, because it is the same price as a power fist. Also, the Nobility rule should probably be replaced with a warlord chart.

The Catachan and PDF ideas are really cool, Buttons.

 Sephyr wrote:
The Catachan and PDF ideas are really cool, Buttons.

Thanks. Got any other ideas? Shame this thread isn't getting more attention, the idea of sub-factions is certainly an interesting concept.

I'll post what I have so far for a geno-guard squad, though it is part of a fandex I am working on.

WOrld Eaters supplement;

- World eaters Surgeon; Apotichary type character that gives FnP and Rampage rules to models with the Mark of Khorne or the Deamon of Khorne rule in 6".
is a HQ choice, but it doesn't take an HQ slot.

-Extendend Wargear;
- Collars of Khorne; Deny the witch on 3+, can't be killed by FWs.
- Axe of Khorne, Ap2 melee Weapon with additional attacks for each 6's to Hit obtained.
-Talisman of Burning Blood, gives +1" to the assault distance.
- Banner of Rage, the unit gains Rampage special rule, once per game units( friends and Foe) in a 8" radius gets +1 A for this combat phase.

Specific World Eaters Warlord trait chart.

1 Biker squadron of the army can exchange their bikes with Juggernauts for +20pts per models.

Deamon Engines and Dreadnoughts, can be dedicated to Khorne for +10pts, they Gain the Rampage and Counter-Attack rules.
A Helldrake dedicated to Khorne, can rethrow his Vector strike dice, but must accept the second result.

Very decent, Slayer. I'd try another tack for a WE book, though:

-Unable to selected Chaos Sorcerers or Dark Apostles as HQ.

-Unique Land Raider variant Land Raider Ngrakal: AV 14/14/13, armed wit three heavy bolters, transport capacity 16. Dedicated transport for Khorne Berserkers, Khorne-marked Chosen and Khorne-marked terminators. Includes a dozer blade.

-World Eater Warlord traits:
1-Lord of the Gore storm: One use only. All Khorne-marked units withing 12" if the Warlord gain the Fleet USR for a turn.
2-Fell Duellist: In a challenge, the Warlord gains the Rampage USR and the Feel n Pain (5+) special rule.
3-Mechanized Assault: The warlord and his unit treat any transport as having the Assault Vehicle USR.
4- Bane of Psykers: Every time an enemy psyker has a power blocked by Deny the With, they also suffer an S5, Ap- hit.
5- Against All Foes: The Warlord and hit unit gaint the Rending USR on all close combat attacks.
6-No Battle Too Far: One use only. This trait must be declared before rolling any reserves for that turn. Once used, all units arriving from reserve can assault after arriving.

-Khorne berserker units can have two additional models purchase items from the chaos melee rewards list.

-Berserker champions replaced by Skull Champions, who can access a different wargear list.

-Devourers: Khorne-marked Terminators with the Hammer of wrath and Furious Charge USRs for +5 points per model.

New Wargear:
-Istvann Banner: Once per game, the unit can re-roll all failed to-wound rolls with shooting or melees attacks. Against loyalist marines, the unit can also re-roll to-hit rolls in that same turn.
-Collar or Khorne: Grants a static 4+ Deny the witch roll the the model/unit.
-Butcher Cannons become available for Khorne-marked Havocs for 20 points.
-Destroyer bandolier: The character gains Radiation grenades (-1 Toughness)
-Warhound Rhino: Vehicle upgrade. At the cost of one Hull point, the rhino can serve as an assault vehicle for that turn. All charges made out of such vehicles count as passing through difficult terrain.


Artefacts of the 12th:
-Unending Spite: A power sword with the Rend and Rampage USRs. If the character wielding it loses all wounds but is engaged in close combat at the time, he remain is play for one turn longer (and cannot receive any extra wounds). During that turn, he gain 1d6 extra attacks and re-rolls all failed to-hit rolls.
-De'Shea Skull: One use only. Once per game, the skull can be unleashed to destroy any Game Objective within 3". It ceases to have any Mysterious Objective abilities and is worth no victory points.
-HammerBlow: A unique chaos warbike that grants +1S, +1T and +1 Wound, as well as the Skilled Rider USR. All Overwatch rolls of 1 made against the it and its unit cause the shot to hit the firing unit instead.

 Sephyr wrote:

Very decent, Slayer. I'd try another tack for a WE book, though:

-Unable to selected Chaos Sorcerers or Dark Apostles as HQ.

-Unique Land Raider variant Land Raider Ngrakal: AV 14/14/13, armed wit three heavy bolters, transport capacity 16. Dedicated transport for Khorne Berserkers, Khorne-marked Chosen and Khorne-marked terminators. Includes a dozer blade.

-World Eater Warlord traits:
1-Lord of the Gore storm: One use only. All Khorne-marked units withing 12" if the Warlord gain the Fleet USR for a turn.
2-Fell Duellist: In a challenge, the Warlord gains the Rampage USR and the Feel n Pain (5+) special rule.
3-Mechanized Assault: The warlord and his unit treat any transport as having the Assault Vehicle USR.
4- Bane of Psykers: Every time an enemy psyker has a power blocked by Deny the With, they also suffer an S5, Ap- hit.
5- Against All Foes: The Warlord and hit unit gaint the Rending USR on all close combat attacks.
6-No Battle Too Far: One use only. This trait must be declared before rolling any reserves for that turn. Once used, all units arriving from reserve can assault after arriving.

-Khorne berserker units can have two additional models purchase items from the chaos melee rewards list.

-Berserker champions replaced by Skull Champions, who can access a different wargear list.

-Devourers: Khorne-marked Terminators with the Hammer of wrath and Furious Charge USRs for +5 points per model.

New Wargear:
-Istvann Banner: Once per game, the unit can re-roll all failed to-wound rolls with shooting or melees attacks. Against loyalist marines, the unit can also re-roll to-hit rolls in that same turn.
-Collar or Khorne: Grants a static 4+ Deny the witch roll the the model/unit.
-Butcher Cannons become available for Khorne-marked Havocs for 20 points.
-Destroyer bandolier: The character gains Radiation grenades (-1 Toughness)
-Warhound Rhino: Vehicle upgrade. At the cost of one Hull point, the rhino can serve as an assault vehicle for that turn. All charges made out of such vehicles count as passing through difficult terrain.


Artefacts of the 12th:
-Unending Spite: A power sword with the Rend and Rampage USRs. If the character wielding it loses all wounds but is engaged in close combat at the time, he remain is play for one turn longer (and cannot receive any extra wounds). During that turn, he gain 1d6 extra attacks and re-rolls all failed to-hit rolls.
-De'Shea Skull: One use only. Once per game, the skull can be unleashed to destroy any Game Objective within 3". It ceases to have any Mysterious Objective abilities and is worth no victory points.
-HammerBlow: A unique chaos warbike that grants +1S, +1T and +1 Wound, as well as the Skilled Rider USR. All Overwatch rolls of 1 made against the it and its unit cause the shot to hit the firing unit instead.

Looks solid! I'd also suggest a special unit for the World Eaters to make up for their loss of Psykers: The Teeth of Khorne

They would be an upgrade to Devastators and grant the "Preferred Enemy: All" special ability.

I also wrote a few Artefacts for World Eaters as well:

Corrupted Butcher's Nails [25 points]
This model adds 1 to its Weapon Skill, Ballistic Skill, Strength and Attack characteristics. At the end of any turn in which this model did not kill an enemy model, one friendly model within 2" of the champion takes a an automatic hit from one of this model's Close Combat Weapons (your choice). If there are no friendly models within range, this model deals one hit to itself from one of its Close Combat Weapons (your choice).

-Slaughtertome: Daemon/Mark of Khorne only. Keep track of the number of models killed by units with Daemon/Mark of Khorne. Consult the following chart; these effects are cumulative and affect units with Daemon/Mark of Khorne within 12". [45 points]

0-7- Unworthy: No effect.

8-15- Slayers: Roll an additional D6 for charge range and discard the lowest of all dice rolled.

16-23- Bloodthirsty: Gain +1 Attack.

24+- Seas of Blood: Ignore Armor saves.

Gauntlet of the Slayer [25 points]
During a challenge, if this model deals more wounds to the enemy model than the enemy model has wounds, any excess wounds are dealt as automatic hits enemy unit within 2" using the Strength and AP of the Champion, and with the Ignores Cover special rule

Curiously enough, I recently did some brainstorming on a Codex: Legions which would be a sub-faction book for CSM

Legion Rules
All units must take the Veterans of the Long War special rule if it is available.
---
Alpha Legion: All models with VOTLW and Infantry who are in Power Armor gain Infiltrate for +1 point per model.

Special Unit: Special Cultists that have Infiltrate, Stealth, and Sniper Rifles

Downsides: Daemons are now Allies of Convenience.
---
Iron Warriors: All models with VOTLW gain Tank Hunter

Special Unit: Destroyers (basically the unit from Horus Heresy: Betrayal)

Downsides: Daemons are now Allies of Convenience
---
Thousand Sons: Can’t take anything except Thousand Sons and units with the Mark of Tzeentch. All Aspiring Sorcerers and Sorcerers gain an extra Psychic Mastery Level and may take Divination Powers.

Sacred Number: A unit with a unit composition of 9 or 18 entitles one model in the unit with the Champion of Chaos to a free Gift of Mutation.

Special Unit: Cult Thousand Son Terminators

Downsides: May only take models with the Mark of Tzeentch
---
Night Lords: All models with VOTLW gain Night Vision
Raptors become a Troop Choice
Units and models without Terminator Armor or Bikes may take Stealth for +2 points per model

Special Unit: n/a, but Warp Talons are now Scoring

Downsides: Only have 2 Heavy support Slots, becomes 4 if playing 2000 pts or higher
---
World Eaters: All models with VOTLW and a close combat weapon may exchange it for a Khornate Chainaxe at no additional cost as long as it is represented on the model.
(Khornate Chainaxe is R: Melee Str: User AP:5 Special Rules: Shred)

Sacred Number: Any unit with a unit composition of 8 or 16 entitles one model in the unit with the Champion of Chaos to a free Gift of Mutation.

Special Unit: Cult Khorne Berserker Terminators

Downsides: No Psykers. May only take models with the Mark of Khorne.
---
Death Guard: All models with VOTLW may count their bolters as a CCW when in combat.

Sacred Number: Any unit with a unit composition of 7 or 14 entitles one model in the unit with the Champion of Chaos to a free Gift of Mutation.

Special Unit: Cult Plague Terminators

Downsides: May only take models with the Mark of Nurgle. Only two units of troops may take Rhinos, all other troop units in Rhinos count as Fast Attack choices
---
Emperor’s Children:
All models with VOTLW and a bolter may replace it with a Sonic Blaster for 2 points per model. Heavy Bolters may be replaced with a Blastmaster for 10 points.

Special Unit: Cult Noise Terminators

Downsides: May only take models with the Mark of Slaanesh

I really like the Teeth ability, Vlad. The latest CD codex seems to have remembered that Khorne is the god of war and combat, not just punching, and has given better BS and some guns to khornates. It's a fun challenge to try and think of shooty abilities for Khorne that are still in character. I'd also extend the Teeth ability to Khorne Chosen as well.

The artefacts, on the other hand, are a bit wonky. Nice ideas but all of them either requires book-keeping that can slow the game or are way too strong (particularly the Slaughtertome).

The Gauntlet of the Slayer is a grand idea, but way too expensive! In most situation it will mean 1-2 extra wound bleeding to the nit, and that's not quite worth an entire power fist. Ten to fifteen sounds about right.

I think the slaughtertome would be a fun idea if its tally and reward was limited to a single model. Give it to a Juggernaut Lord, Daemon Prince or other heavy hitter and risk it in lots of combats to see how far you can boost him before he dies in a blaze of glory.

 Sephyr wrote:
I really like the Teeth ability, Vlad. The latest CD codex seems to have remembered that Khorne is the god of war and combat, not just punching, and has given better BS and some guns to khornates. It's a fun challenge to try and think of shooty abilities for Khorne that are still in character. I'd also extend the Teeth ability to Khorne Chosen as well.

The artefacts, on the other hand, are a bit wonky. Nice ideas but all of them either requires book-keeping that can slow the game or are way too strong (particularly the Slaughtertome).

The Gauntlet of the Slayer is a grand idea, but way too expensive! In most situation it will mean 1-2 extra wound bleeding to the nit, and that's not quite worth an entire power fist. Ten to fifteen sounds about right.

I think the slaughtertome would be a fun idea if its tally and reward was limited to a single model. Give it to a Juggernaut Lord, Daemon Prince or other heavy hitter and risk it in lots of combats to see how far you can boost him before he dies in a blaze of glory.

Thanks for the comments and also the constructive feedback! Yeah I wrote those a while ago but I do agree that they need some balancing. '

We should get a group of Dakkanauts together to write a Codex: Legion supplement for the CSM book. Especially those who feel they have been, how shall I say, "disenfranchised"?
It would be a good opportunity to take the weekly "boo Chaos is dumb" threads and turn it into something constructive.