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I know that the BRB states that zooming flyers cannot tank shock or ram or be tank shocked or rammed but an interesting scenario came up in a recent game.

My nightscythe suffered a weapon destroyed result, so it lost its 1 available weapon. I still used it to transport troops around the battle field so it didn't lose all of its abilities. But the question was raised as why can't I kamikaze into an opposing vehicle?

I know the rules state i can't, but would other players allow this or want to try this?

a 30" to 36" ram attack would result in a strength 10 hit on both vehicles, it would be likely the flyer would be penetrated but higher Av value targets could survive.

Would people use it as a tactic if you could do it?

I think its a good idea, although I think that the flier should just be auto killed, since it is crashing into a ground target.

If you include that I think it would be a pretty nice idea since it would be trading your flier for a pretty good chance of taking out someone else really heavy vehicle.

The target should still get any cover saves they might have so it will be less tempting to use the flier as an easy way to knock out a vehicle in cover.

dude.... check up death from the skies.

The only Flyer which can perform any kind of Ram is the Caestus. Apart from that you might have some luck looking through Death From the Skies.

 Valkyrie wrote:
The only Flyer which can perform any kind of Ram is the Caestus. Apart from that you might have some luck looking through Death From the Skies.

The ork flyers can choose to ramm but its only for the flyer scenario.

Mmh...

Maybe something that when your flyer does'nt have any weapons left and is down to 1 PC, you can Kamakize ram it into something.

To be honest though, I really can't see any fluff justification behind it. Your Flyer's out of ammo, why bother crashing it when you can just fly back, re-arm and then cause much more damage?

 Valkyrie wrote:
To be honest though, I really can't see any fluff justification behind it. Your Flyer's out of ammo, why bother crashing it when you can just fly back, re-arm and then cause much more damage?

Because your engine's on fire, your legs are shot off and you're going to go down soon anyway?

 Valkyrie wrote:
To be honest though, I really can't see any fluff justification behind it. Your Flyer's out of ammo, why bother crashing it when you can just fly back, re-arm and then cause much more damage?

Cuz yuu be a ork and yuu like smashin' thengs!

It seems that some here have not heard of Japanese Kamikaze planes or Germany's leonidas squadron.

Those are both speicific examples that would have specific rules though, rather than being a general rule.

The kamikaze planes were specially packed with high explosives, and were mostly older planes. It was pretty rare for a zero to be used for a kamikaze attack, for example.

Pfft, S10?

My Trukk does S4 when it rams something at full speed. If I can't do S10 with my trukk then you can't do S10 with your flier.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Pfft, S10?

My Trukk does S4 when it rams something at full speed. If I can't do S10 with my trukk then you can't do S10 with your flier.

A plane is going much faster than a Trukk would. And you can get much better strength with the ram, although that will probably make your Trukk fold up like an accordion.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Pfft, S10?

My Trukk does S4 when it rams something at full speed. If I can't do S10 with my trukk then you can't do S10 with your flier.

There's a difference. A trukk is a ramshackle wagon of bits of metal barely held together moving at 80mph at very best. A Dakkajet is a much larger, better designed vehicle moving at upwards of 400mph.

The speed ratio alone would mean the jet is three times more dangerous when ramming, moving from Str 4 to 12, which becomes 10. And that's a lightly armoured plane. A heavier arkoured Scythe, Valkery or Stormraven would do so much more damage.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
Pfft, S10?

My Trukk does S4 when it rams something at full speed. If I can't do S10 with my trukk then you can't do S10 with your flier.

There's a difference. A trukk is a ramshackle wagon of bits of metal barely held together moving at 80mph at very best. A Dakkajet is a much larger, better designed vehicle moving at upwards of 400mph.

The speed ratio alone would mean the jet is three times more dangerous when ramming, moving from Str 4 to 12, which becomes 10. And that's a lightly armoured plane. A heavier arkoured Scythe, Valkery or Stormraven would do so much more damage.

400 mph? I think you're undershooting there by a lot.

Also you fail F=MV^2 forever.

Note the squared.

 Kain wrote:
Also you fail F=MV^2 forever.

But you fail too.
The equation is E=1/2*m*v^2 (that's for energy). F=ma is the equation for force.

 greyknight12 wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Also you fail F=MV^2 forever.

But you fail too.
The equation is E=1/2*m*v^2 (that's for energy). F=ma is the equation for force.

A 20 kilojoule bullet still hurts vastly more than a 1 kilojoule bullet.

As already mentioned, the kamikaze planes were rigged with high explosives for a reason. A vehicle capable of sustained flight isn't as rugged or durable as an armored shell crawling along the ground. If anything I'm against it because I don't think it should be a S10 hit to the vehicle.

It also gives bonuses to too many things that don't need bonuses. If I get a weapon destroyed on Nightscythe or a Heldrake, it shouldn't be able to turn around and blow up my landraider as it's reward.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
As already mentioned, the kamikaze planes were rigged with high explosives for a reason. A vehicle capable of sustained flight isn't as rugged or durable as an armored shell crawling along the ground. If anything I'm against it because I don't think it should be a S10 hit to the vehicle.

It also gives bonuses to too many things that don't need bonuses. If I get a weapon destroyed on Nightscythe or a Heldrake, it shouldn't be able to turn around and blow up my landraider as it's reward.

I'm struggling to understand why you think ploughing an expensive point sink that may not even do anything on a one shot, off chance that it can destroy/damage your vehicle is a reward?

It's just a stronger but obscenely more expensive hunter killer missile and no one in their right mind would do it unless their flier became useless due to weapon destroyed results.

There should be a leadership test of sorts though, I'm sure some pilots would have the idea but bottle it.

As already stated, a Nightscythe has plenty of things it can do.
After it's done moving units around, if it's main weapon is destroyed it can still plow into an enemy tank and have a decent chance to pen, and a chance to finish it off or make it explode since it's late game anyways.

It's something it couldn't do before, something that it gets for free that can only be used to it's owners benefit, and it was already good as it was. It gives up nothing to get an extra S10 attack against a vehicle. Why do you think that isn't a reward?

 Kain wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
Pfft, S10?

My Trukk does S4 when it rams something at full speed. If I can't do S10 with my trukk then you can't do S10 with your flier.

There's a difference. A trukk is a ramshackle wagon of bits of metal barely held together moving at 80mph at very best. A Dakkajet is a much larger, better designed vehicle moving at upwards of 400mph.

The speed ratio alone would mean the jet is three times more dangerous when ramming, moving from Str 4 to 12, which becomes 10. And that's a lightly armoured plane. A heavier arkoured Scythe, Valkery or Stormraven would do so much more damage.

400 mph? I think you're undershooting there by a lot.

Also you fail F=MV^2 forever.

Note the squared.

Yes, I was underestimating. I don't actually know what the exact speed, maybe closer to 600? And with orks its variable, particularly with RPJ.

And yes, I know Kinetic energy=M/2 x (VxV)