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 Peregrine wrote:

TyranidPainter wrote:
Ah I see. Well like I said I want to sell my items cheap to give poorer people access to quality mercandise. Besides, it should also increase the portential market x x

You need to decide whether you're running a business or a charity. Insisting on low prices so poorer people can buy them is just absurd, someone who is really poor can't afford commission painting at all (especially when that commission painting isn't any better than what they could do themselves). So all you're really doing is making sure that your profit will be pretty much nonexistent. If you really want to help poorer people get into the hobby you'd be better off donating some time and money to buy basic starter sets and teach kids how to play.

Absolutely agree with this. If you're doing it as a charity, then provide the labor for free. If nothing else, it will give you tons of figures to practice painting on ... for free. Doing the work at a loss or for very little is just a bad idea.

Man, winterdyne's words have simultaneously encouraged and squashed my own delusions of "grandeur" with commission painting .

Fantastic info in this thread, but I realize I have lots of painting skills and a steady hand to get going before I could even paint for friends and attempt at charging money

I never charge or do commissions for friends.

I occasionally do freebies, but I find friendships and business are not good bedfellows. 'Mates' rates' are a surefire way to sour either your enthusiasm for the business or encourage a friend to demand more than you are willing to give. Working on stuff for free, there's no preconception on either side.

I know I sound harsh sometimes, but the truth of it is that commission painting is a hard, hard business. The money / margins are extremely small, the effort required is huge, and the general appreciation of skill or time involved by the general masses (even amoung gamers) is limited.

There's no magic involved, and the skills (more precisely 'tricks', once you have the fine motor control down) involved (unless you're being particularly 'arty') can be learned by anyone with patience and determination. By all means push yourself to it, but it's not a good idea to 'go pro' until you're ready both for harsh criticism and constructive feedback.

winterdyne wrote:
Blah, blah blah. Look, you are simply not up to the point where you stand a reasonable chance of making profit. I've said this before, but perhaps wasn't clear enough.

You. Need. To. Practice. Paint and photography.

You won't get paid for it, it will cost you in models, materials and time. To save cash, get metal models for practice. These can be cleanly stripped in cellulose thinner.

Right now, as your recent eBay experiment showed, you're simply not producing the required quality, attempting to sell or perform commissions right now will only serve to harm your finances and/or reputation. You could even end up in small claims court if a client is particularly unhappy.

A lot of the start-up 'commission' services you see are actually just doing things for their friends or on a very local basis. As soon as you're touting yourself as an actual professional, what people expect of you changes massively.

With ANY business, you need to know your stuff, before you launch the ship, so to speak. I wouldn't become a hairdresser; although I know how to use comb, scissors and clippers I am in no way skilled in coiffure. Even for mates. The chance of me ballsing it up is simply too high.

I echo, if you need cash now, another job is what you need. Get to the job centre - its their job to help you find something you can do, and if you're genuine about it, as opposed to the usual sullen dosser, they're much more helpful.

You are indeed wise and were I a smarter man I'd listen to you....but I'm not so I'll take your words into consideration but until my little business goes tit's up I'm not going to be put off by mere words. I have just completed my first commission so it is clear that some people are interested in my skills. Thank you for all your advice though. You have been very helpful and your advice has certainly stood out on this thread .


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well I've just completed my first commission, a magnetized Necron Destroyer, and here it is:

You should post your work to the dakka gallery so people that have photobucket workblocked can see your progress and improvements.

Not trying to be rude but any one can paint Necrons.....Your paint looks super thick. Your line work looks very thick as well. The necron emblem in the middel needs to be touched up. Its ok for a tabletop standerd for some one who just plays and wants a ok to good looking model from a distance. Ive lurked this thread and i can tell a change in your painting. Ive been painting for about six months and been offered to do some work for people. But i have turned them down, I do not feel i am ready to paint for people i do not know. And have them show off something i know isnt great to only look bad in the long run as a bad painter. Im not trying to bash on your work its ok,would i pay for it no would i recommend you no, but i would follow your work. Ive attached some of my work well only what i have pics of on my work computer. Have a look i didnt feel it was right to say anything and not show an of my work for you to judge.

SheSpits wrote:
Not trying to be rude but any one can paint Necrons....

And then you proceed to be rude. Classy.

Anyways, the Destroyer is a huge improvement! The paint is a tad thick, however. If you want to really get models looking good, you need to err on the side of thinner paint and more layers instead of one detail-killing, brush-mark ridden layer.

Also, here's something to consider: just try getting your basecoating and washing down cold and then paint models doing just that. I know a guy that runs a studio in Texas that does tons of commissions at just a basecoat/wash leve, and other higher than that. Here's their site for you to check out > http://www.lazuli-miniatures.com/
~Tim?

ok, all these clowns that are dripping with condescension over how you wouldn't pay for what you see here.... this is the grade of work that forms the basis of Level 2 and Level 3 paint jobs from BTP. Given that BTP continues to do a lot of business and has grown to have a large body of employees such that Shaun is no longer able to have regular updates with everyone is a pretty bloody good indicator to me that people will pay for and are content with that kind of paint job. With the painting fee at ~$2.50-$7.00 per paintjob per model, it's a decent price for a decent job. I've come across models so badly painted that the thickness of paint counts as extra armor for WYSIWYG.......

if i'm going to be playing the game, i'm content with the models only looking good at 24 or 36" distance away, since I'm probably a little occupied with playing the game, not so much appreciating how much better my models look as compared to my opponent. I'd also rather not cringe each time my models tip, and have to handle them like my grandfather's time piece for fear of chipping the paint work...... T_T

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:

SheSpits wrote:
Not trying to be rude but any one can paint Necrons....

And then you proceed to be rude. Classy.

Necrons are maybe one of the most simple models to paint. Even if you just dry brush the whole thing they look great. I really can not see how any one can screw them up, if following the norm colors. I also did mention that he has made some improvements as well. If i came off rude im sorry OP didnt mean to piss on your party. How ever one thing i am not is Classy


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 poda_t wrote:
ok, all these clowns that are dripping with condescension over how you wouldn't pay for what you see.

Since i stated i wouldnt pay for his work am i now considerd a clown?

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:

SheSpits wrote:
Not trying to be rude but any one can paint Necrons....

And then you proceed to be rude. Classy.

Anyways, the Destroyer is a huge improvement! The paint is a tad thick, however. If you want to really get models looking good, you need to err on the side of thinner paint and more layers instead of one detail-killing, brush-mark ridden layer.

Also, here's something to consider: just try getting your basecoating and washing down cold and then paint models doing just that. I know a guy that runs a studio in Texas that does tons of commissions at just a basecoat/wash leve, and other higher than that. Here's their site for you to check out > http://www.lazuli-miniatures.com/
~Tim?

Ah well thank you. I appriciate your advice however are you surgesting that I just skip the highlighting and layering? Should I at least drybrush after? I don't think that's going to help me in the long run and if I'm going to do that then I mayaswell just dip them don't you think? But I will try it and post the pics. Oh errm, how am I supposed to water down metalic paints without seperating the pigments?

 TyranidPainter wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:

SheSpits wrote:
Not trying to be rude but any one can paint Necrons....

And then you proceed to be rude. Classy.

Anyways, the Destroyer is a huge improvement! The paint is a tad thick, however. If you want to really get models looking good, you need to err on the side of thinner paint and more layers instead of one detail-killing, brush-mark ridden layer.

Also, here's something to consider: just try getting your basecoating and washing down cold and then paint models doing just that. I know a guy that runs a studio in Texas that does tons of commissions at just a basecoat/wash leve, and other higher than that. Here's their site for you to check out > http://www.lazuli-miniatures.com/
~Tim?

Ah well thank you. I appriciate your advice however are you surgesting that I just skip the highlighting and layering? Should I at least drybrush after? I don't think that's going to help me in the long run and if I'm going to do that then I mayaswell just dip them don't you think? But I will try it and post the pics. Oh errm, how am I supposed to water down metalic paints without seperating the pigments?

all he's saying is pick one, at most two things, at a time, and do just those till you have those down pat. Trying to do every technique on one model isn't exactly a recipe for a good looking model. Some people paint models by only using inks and washes: they paint the model white, and use grey and black to do the shadows and lighting. Then they go in with inks and washes. The models can look pretty good, but you need to know how to use washes, inks, and you need to know how to do your lighting. It's a neat way to paint, but leave this as a project to try sometime in October once you've developed a thorough understanding of lighting, as this technique can be unforgiving.

I just water down metallic paint like anything else, if its well shaken before I don't find the pigments separating - unless that happens with some not others in which case I haven't come across them...

Also that Necron is an improvement to before.

 poda_t wrote:
ok, all these clowns that are dripping with condescension over how you wouldn't pay for what you see here.... this is the grade of work that forms the basis of Level 2 and Level 3 paint jobs from BTP. Given that BTP continues to do a lot of business and has grown to have a large body of employees such that Shaun is no longer able to have regular updates with everyone is a pretty bloody good indicator to me that people will pay for and are content with that kind of paint job. With the painting fee at ~$2.50-$7.00 per paintjob per model, it's a decent price for a decent job. I've come across models so badly painted that the thickness of paint counts as extra armor for WYSIWYG.......

if i'm going to be playing the game, i'm content with the models only looking good at 24 or 36" distance away, since I'm probably a little occupied with playing the game, not so much appreciating how much better my models look as compared to my opponent. I'd also rather not cringe each time my models tip, and have to handle them like my grandfather's time piece for fear of chipping the paint work...... T_T

Thank you so much, this is probably the most complementary post on here. Thank you, but he has a point. Necrons are quite simple to paint. However they all take time to get to a decent quality.

The metallic paints are water based, just like the rest. I.e. the pigments are suspended in water. Watering them down just means less pigment is suspended in more water. Shake the tub properly, and give it two thin coats instead of one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I highly recommend a wet palette. It does the work for you, and you can achieve a much smoother, crisp finish.

OP, the Necron does indeed look better, the paint thickness has improved but has a bit more to go.

If your getting full coverage in one pass its too thick. Wet pallets are wonderful and I use one made of cheap sponges and parchment paper.

Also I would honestly recommend not buying and painting models on eBay, Its a money sink. As you are in the UK, I would get to know the local Game Clubs, If there is a FLGS (not a GW) I would make friends with the owners. My FLGS has a fully painted GK army that I painted for him in the display case. Its good for his business and If I happen to get passed some off hand stuff that i want to work on I do it, and the store owner gets a cut as I charge in store credit....that's honestly as far as I will go. My willingness to paint to a table top standard for people pays for my plastic crack addiction.

Get to a point where you can at least achieve a high level table top standard across multiple types of models (not just GW, as WM/H players as a whole tend not to want to paint for some reason). Once you are there than I would look to expand and make it a "profession". I am by no means shooting down your dream, I honestly want to see you succeed, and that means taking the steps necessary for you to be consistent in quality, timeliness and professionalism. You need to know things like "How long will it take me to paint these 2500pts of SM, to a table top standard" "How many commissions will I reasonably be able to accept and still have them out on time" "How can I constantly drive business so I don't have 3 month with nothing to paint and no money coming in?"

To be a "Professional Painter" first and foremost means being a professional. As in any profession be it baker, banker, footballer, you have to know it inside and out. Until you are there and learned the hard lessons, do it on the side. See if you haven't burned out in 6 months of just nights and weekends....

All in all good luck. I hope you take the steps that are needed so that you can succeed down the road.

SheSpits wrote:
Necrons are maybe one of the most simple models to paint. Even if you just dry brush the whole thing they look great. I really can not see how any one can screw them up, if following the norm colors. I also did mention that he has made some improvements as well. If i came off rude im sorry OP didnt mean to piss on your party. How ever one thing i am not is Classy

It's fine, I'm not offended, I understand and, to some degree, agree with what you're saying. You did put it rather bluntly though. Saying 'anyone can do it' is underminding my work :(. It's fine though, thanks for your critisizm .


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 darefsky wrote:
OP, the Necron does indeed look better, the paint thickness has improved but has a bit more to go.

If your getting full coverage in one pass its too thick. Wet pallets are wonderful and I use one made of cheap sponges and parchment paper.

Also I would honestly recommend not buying and painting models on eBay, Its a money sink. As you are in the UK, I would get to know the local Game Clubs, If there is a FLGS (not a GW) I would make friends with the owners. My FLGS has a fully painted GK army that I painted for him in the display case. Its good for his business and If I happen to get passed some off hand stuff that i want to work on I do it, and the store owner gets a cut as I charge in store credit....that's honestly as far as I will go. My willingness to paint to a table top standard for people pays for my plastic crack addiction.

Get to a point where you can at least achieve a high level table top standard across multiple types of models (not just GW, as WM/H players as a whole tend not to want to paint for some reason). Once you are there than I would look to expand and make it a "profession". I am by no means shooting down your dream, I honestly want to see you succeed, and that means taking the steps necessary for you to be consistent in quality, timeliness and professionalism. You need to know things like "How long will it take me to paint these 2500pts of SM, to a table top standard" "How many commissions will I reasonably be able to accept and still have them out on time" "How can I constantly drive business so I don't have 3 month with nothing to paint and no money coming in?"

To be a "Professional Painter" first and foremost means being a professional. As in any profession be it baker, banker, footballer, you have to know it inside and out. Until you are there and learned the hard lessons, do it on the side. See if you haven't burned out in 6 months of just nights and weekends....

All in all good luck. I hope you take the steps that are needed so that you can succeed down the road.

Thank you. I do own a wet pallet and am geuing used to useing it, however I'm a little anxious about watering down metalic paint.
Also thank you for your advice. I had anticipated that my little buisness may take time to lift off and I had considerd getting my name out around the local gaming clubs however I think it'd be wise to build up a bit of evidence of my work so that they're less likely to laugh and turn me away. Fourtunatly there's not alot of compertition in my area.

A wet pallet shouldn't have much of an effect on metallic paints unless you let them sit there for a few days. The biggest issue I had come across in that regard are paints that don't use liquid pigments (looking at you GW). The Vallejo and army painter metallics haven't let me down in that regard. Also for the best golds/bronzes I cant say enough about the Tamiya alcohol based acrylics, they just blow me away in how rich and amazing they look.

Simple or not, the destroyer looks significantly better than some of the first figures you posted.

Another tip, instead of thinning with water, thin with matte medium. Vallejo also makes metallic medium.

 Ifurita wrote:
Simple or not, the destroyer looks significantly better than some of the first figures you posted.

Another tip, instead of thinning with water, thin with matte medium. Vallejo also makes metallic medium.

wouldn't just one drop of water do some good though? the medium's I've got appear to have sat on the store shelves since... mm... I'm going to guess last christmas.

Guess it depends on how long you'll be using it. Water will eventually result in the pigment separating from the suspension. Medium thins the paint without the separation.

 Ifurita wrote:
Guess it depends on how long you'll be using it. Water will eventually result in the pigment separating from the suspension. Medium thins the paint without the separation.

Acrylic medium is great for increasing transparency when blending and for making glazes, but for your everyday thinning needs, a drop or two of water never goes wrong, and plus, it's way cheaper than buying bottles of medium.

~Tim?

Fair enough. I use water as well to thin.

I haven't yet thought to comment here, but have been silently reading it.

Tim has pointed out one of the best examples of fast and successful painting. I myself have worked with Lazuli and have watched him grow over the last several years.
His clients like his style of painting and rave about the product he produces.
Not to mention Tim himself is an excellent painter!

Winterdyne is also the god of commission advice. I can not think of anyone better to listen to.

I know years ago when I began to do commission work locally, I read his threads and his various advice for others, and it helps a lot.

Onto your painting. Your latest work is a big improvement on your past pieces! Necrons are an army that despite being so easy to paint, people do NOT want to paint!
As already said, you need to thin your paints more, but your on the right track!

Personally I wouldn't magnetize models unless the client requests the service. It is just a time consuming project that at this time is money you are not going to recuperate.

Here is a great blog to check out and will hopefully help you in your en devours!
http://www.fromthewarp.blogspot.com/

For about £20, you can also join Miniature Mentor, a great site with helpful tutorial videos that range from basic technique to advanced sculpting and painting.
The work features world renowned painters and Slayer Sword winners.
http://miniaturementor.com/index.html

Well I've tried watering down my paints but I can't avoid the paint rubbing of the final product :(. Will mediums prevent that?

Generally not. What are you doing to rub paint off? Is it going to primer or bare plastic? What are you priming with?

Lastly, always seal the job when done with a good varnish.

Your photography is getting better, but it still needs some work. The Necron model is too dark and out of focus in some of the pictures. For the focus problems you probably need a tripod and careful attention to making sure everything is properly in focus. For the brightness problems I bet you're using automatic exposure settings, and the bright white background is fooling the camera. The automatic system sees that the average brightness is pretty high (pure white), but what you really care about is the darkest elements of the image. Use manual settings for exposure time and adjust it until you get a clear shot of the model, and just let the background get brighter than it "should" be in real life.

 TyranidPainter wrote:
Saying 'anyone can do it' is undermining my work :(

Sorry, but that's the truth. So far you haven't really moved beyond the basics that anyone willing to invest a little time and effort can do. This is especially true in the case of Necrons, since a clean base coat and wash/drybrush is enough to get decent looking metal and the models don't usually have very many complex and demanding features.

Of course "anyone can do it" doesn't necessarily mean you can't make money. Sure, some high-end commissions are for stuff that the buyer would never be able to do themselves, but a lot of the industry is just doing basic gaming-standard work for people who could paint their own army but don't want to. Well-executed basic techniques are enough for some people as long as you can do it fast and efficiently.

Well I've just orderd some primer paints and a quickshade darktone from....I can't quite remember :S, AC Miniatures I think it was XD. How thick am I lol. Anyway I'm going to attempt to create loads of gaunts using the quickshade method and try selling them on ebay which should pay for my commission tools and models.

Wait... were you not priming your models?

 ExiledMiniatures wrote:
I haven't yet thought to comment here, but have been silently reading it.

For about £20, you can also join Miniature Mentor, a great site with helpful tutorial videos that range from basic technique to advanced sculpting and painting.
The work features world renowned painters and Slayer Sword winners.
http://miniaturementor.com/index.html

Very interested in this. You rate it? Looks to be good value!

 Kr00gZ wrote:

 ExiledMiniatures wrote:
I haven't yet thought to comment here, but have been silently reading it.

For about £20, you can also join Miniature Mentor, a great site with helpful tutorial videos that range from basic technique to advanced sculpting and painting.
The work features world renowned painters and Slayer Sword winners.
http://miniaturementor.com/index.html

Very interested in this. You rate it? Looks to be good value!

I'd give it 5/5 for each video. The basic session is the one for £20 (33 AUS), but for £55 (90 AUS) you can join their subscription program ($7.99 USD/ £6/10AUS per month) and get all videos for .01 quid. (.01 AUS - minimum paypal payment per transaction.)
They send out a newsletter every few months with the release schedules of what videos are coming out as well!

*All prices are estimated based on current exchange rates from the USD prices.