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In the fluff the entire population of Cadia is destined for military life, so where are all the women in the shock troop squads?

In the reproduction chambers, making more Cadians for the frontline.

Lol, I suppose.

 DeffDred wrote:
In the reproduction chambers, making more Cadians for the frontline.

Seems legit.

The miniatures do not accurately reflect the army's background in this detail. It really is as simple and as sad as that.

Some people have done some amazing conversions, though, and I think at various points in time you could even buy conversion packs, until GW shot that down. Here is an example.

The miniatures aren't representative of the fluff. This should be obvious, consixering that, for example, there's several times more Marine miniatures on the planet than there are actually in the lore.

The women of Cadia are raging heroes

 DeffDred wrote:
In the reproduction chambers, making more Cadians for the frontline.

Probably.

Given the casualty rates and manpower requirement, one would assume, barring some kind of Kriegesque kind of technology, they'd be fairly busy going all Duggar family.

I guess Cadian women of childbearing age are more commonly assigned to support units. Which by no means are all that much safer on a planet that is a giant frontline by itself, but perhaps marginally so.

I would love some women for my Tallarn army. One of these days I'll commission BTP to do something along those lines.

Spetulhu wrote:I guess Cadian women of childbearing age are more commonly assigned to support units. Which by no means are all that much safer on a planet that is a giant frontline by itself, but perhaps marginally so.

"Childbearing age" covers a fairly broad range - just about the entire time of a military career. Rather, I assume there is a sort of early "cut-off" date at which Cadian rank-and-file are released into semi-civilian life, becoming factory workers, administrators, or ... well, get to raise a family. Cadia's military is fairly unique in that its regiments actually do return home every few years, being rotated in and out of the Interior Guard in order to reinforce home defense with units that have actual combat experience. In contrast to standard Munitorum procedure, this means that veterans actually get to retire on their own homeworld rather than settling down on some newly conquered planet, and I think it is these people that make up the 28.5% of Cadia's population that are not under arms.

Of Cadian youngsters, each and every one is recruited into the Youth Army. After they have completed this tour of duty, 1 in 10 gets to join the permanent formations of the Interior Guard, regardless of ability or achievements, whilst the rest makes up the Shock Troop regiments that are sent off-world to fight the Imperium's wars.
There may also be a veritable influx of "non-native Cadians" fathered by troopers whilst on deployment, who end up accompanying the regiment until they are eventually absorbed by it, fighting side by side with their fathers or mothers, until some day getting shipped to Cadia with the rest of the surviving soldiers.

At least that's how the studio fluff has described it. Codex: Eye of Terror fortunately goes a little bit into detail concerning life on Cadia.

On a sidenote, I don't think the concept of "support units" as they are used in most modern militaries exists for the Imperial Guard in 40k. Each regiment is a self-contained entity and needs to be able to operate as such, cut-off from any support network other than what Segmentum Command and the Adeptus Munitorum assign to them for each and every individual campaign, as well as possibly having to integrate with non-Cadian regiments for mixed Army Groups made up of multiple elements, each of whom follows a different specialisation.
Indeed, most things that modern real world support units are doing is probably regarded as unnecessary luxury, or simply done by either the regiment's civilian wagon train (see the children mentioned above, who have been said to be assigned to "menial duties" until old enough to become soldiers too) or the average troopers themselves.

Logistics duties, not represented by actual miniatures, and/or hopped up on enough testosterone that they aren't easily distinguishable from the men at 28mm scale. Contrary to what Hollywood would have you believe women in military settings usually don't actually look like actresses.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Contrary to what Hollywood would have you believe women in military settings usually don't actually look like actresses.

On that subject... just replace "marine" with "guardsman".

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Logistics duties, not represented by actual miniatures, and/or hopped up on enough testosterone that they aren't easily distinguishable from the men at 28mm scale. Contrary to what Hollywood would have you believe women in military settings usually don't actually look like actresses.

Though they can. Female soldiers look like... women, just like you would find them out on the town. Some are plain, some are pretty, some are tall, some short. It's... just like being in the civilian world, really. They run the range of appearances, just like their male counterparts, with the obvious exceptions (again on both sides) of those who would be unfit for military service are not found in uniform (so the obese or those who have dwarfism or are midgets are not found).

And no Cadian would have those features, either because they died early on or because they've been in military training their entire life.

There were some female Cadians, I think, as a limited run. Those might have been (or there might be) Forgeworld ones. If you're looking for female soldiers and don't mind third party, then these ones that Kroot alluded to are pretty amazing.

Doesn't Cadia throw children into the firing line as Whiteshields? Yeah I'm pretty sure women get the draft card too.

The recruitment rate on Cadia is the same as its birth rate. So yes, its women see military service and combat.

 Jimsolo wrote:
There were some female Cadians, I think, as a limited run. Those might have been (or there might be) Forgeworld ones. If you're looking for female soldiers and don't mind third party, then these ones that Kroot alluded to are pretty amazing.

Most of those models are silly cheesecake models and aren't worthy of the Imperial Guard name. Even if you can put up with the "supermodels in fake uniforms" look of the range, of that entire range shown thus far, only two models might possibly be considered potential Cadian models (Heavy Gunner Aaqila Noyakin and Sniper Karmina Noxx), which is nowhere near enough for a full range.

Also, in a battlefield where the average enemy is A. Hopped up on chaos and bugnut crazy. B. A quarter ton wall of green muscle that can pop your skull like a grape with his finger grip. C. A dog sized bug dinosaur that can outrun many vehicles and has scythes for hands or shoots acidic beetles that eat you alive. D. A virtually unkillable undead robot who can strip you down to your atoms with their basic gun or tear off your arms with a tug. E. A hapless Eldar civilian given a gun that can puree you before you can blink and armor at least equal to yours on a body much faster than you or F. A psychotic version of said Eldar with a gun so poisonous it can corrode metal the differences between the male and female physiology really don't mean much.

Because who cares if a man has 30-50% more upper body strength? An Ork has like ten times more and will happily twist your arms out and beat you to death with them if upper body strength ever becomes important in a fight between you and him.

No reason not to double the amount of cannon fodder you can shove into the enemy's guns until they clog.

 Melissia wrote:
The recruitment rate on Cadia is the same as its birth rate. So yes, its women see military service and combat.

 Jimsolo wrote:
There were some female Cadians, I think, as a limited run. Those might have been (or there might be) Forgeworld ones. If you're looking for female soldiers and don't mind third party, then these ones that Kroot alluded to are pretty amazing.

Most of those models are silly cheesecake models and aren't worthy of the Imperial Guard name. Even if you can put up with the "supermodels in fake uniforms" look of the range, of that entire range shown thus far, only two models might possibly be considered potential Cadian models (Heavy Gunner Aaqila Noyakin and Sniper Karmina Noxx), which is nowhere near enough for a full range.

Lol, you've said. I think the Kurganova line as a whole is reasonable, and am mystified at people who think the Iron Empire is cheesecake. While the Jailbirds are indeed quite sexified, I think that fits the 90's girl-power cyberpunk aesthetic they were trying to go for.

I understand that you dislike the majority of the range, but as to the idea that the whole Raging Heroes thing is "silly cheesecake and aren't worthy of the Imperial Guard name," I think that many hundreds of people would disagree. (To the tune of over four hundred G's, so far.)

I certainly don't find them any sillier in a feminine way than the Catachans are in a masculine one. (Notice how no one ever complains about that? ) The Sisters of Battle are even more sexualized than 2/3 of the Raging Heroes line, and that seems to be okay. Pretty much EVERY scifi wargaming army is silly in some way or another. (In a 'overpowered mutant machismo' way, a 'ridiculous elves in space' way, a 'we totally aren't ripping off Starship Troopers bugs' kind of way, or a 'Space Nazis without swastikas so the buyers can pretend like they AREN'T buying Space Nazis' way.)

Personally, I didn't see a difference between the Kurganova troopers and the Cadian troopers.


And while sure, they aren't absolutely perfect, I've never seen female Guard-substitutes that are any better. (Incidentally, if you'd like to continue this conversation via PM so as to avoid dragging this thread off-topic, I'd be happy to do so.)

Pardon me for waxing philosophic for a bit, but you have to keep in mind that our culture encourages women (and men to a lesser extent) to be lazy and live sedentary lifetyles. A Cadian woman is stripping, cleaning, and reassembling her lasgun before she can walk. She's doing two hundred pushups a day before most men in modern times can do twenty. She's doing combat drills before most men modern times even think of joining the military.

She's killed enemies, fire her weapon in anger, and saw her friends torn apart beside her before most men in modern times ever touch a gun.

It's an extremely different culture and, as a result, Cadian women would actually be physically superior to modern men, save for the very finest specimens.

 Melissia wrote:
Pardon me for waxing philosophic for a bit, but you have to keep in mind that our culture encourages women (and men to a lesser extent) to be lazy and live sedentary lifetyles. A Cadian woman is stripping, cleaning, and reassembling her lasgun before she can walk. She's doing two hundred pushups a day before most men in modern times can do twenty. She's doing combat drills before most men modern times even think of joining the military.

She's killed enemies, fire her weapon in anger, and saw her friends torn apart beside her before most men in modern times ever touch a gun.

It's an extremely different culture and, as a result, Cadian women would actually be physically superior to modern men, save for the very finest specimens.

And given their usual luck, she and her childhood male friends will probably be shipped out to fight...at age 13.

Because Children make for shorter targets for the enemy.

Oh man I'm terrible.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard/Cadian_Shock_Troops/CADIAN_HOSTILE_ENVIRONMENT_TROOPS_CONVERSION_SET.html

1 squad of Cadian women coming right up

 Jimsolo wrote:
I understand that you dislike the majority of the range, but as to the idea that the whole Raging Heroes thing is "silly cheesecake and aren't worthy of the Imperial Guard name," I think that many hundreds of people would disagree. (To the tune of over four hundred G's, so far.)

I certainly don't find them any sillier in a feminine way than the Catachans are in a masculine one. (Notice how no one ever complains about that? ) The Sisters of Battle are even more sexualized than 2/3 of the Raging Heroes line, and that seems to be okay. Pretty much EVERY scifi wargaming army is silly in some way or another. (In a 'overpowered mutant machismo' way, a 'ridiculous elves in space' way, a 'we totally aren't ripping off Starship Troopers bugs' kind of way, or a 'Space Nazis without swastikas so the buyers can pretend like they AREN'T buying Space Nazis' way.)

Personally, I didn't see a difference between the Kurganova troopers and the Cadian troopers.

And while sure, they aren't absolutely perfect, I've never seen female Guard-substitutes that are any better. (Incidentally, if you'd like to continue this conversation via PM so as to avoid dragging this thread off-topic, I'd be happy to do so.)

Actually, we do complain about the Catachans being silly in a masculine manner. At least, Melissia does. I don't give a monkey's gak about Catachans either way because I think they're horrible sculpts and want no part of them (but if men in any way interested me, I'd probably be complaining about it).

The Sisters models are... not actually sexualised all that much. They're gothic styled from foot to helm, but sexualised? Not really. They wear full body armour and are posed either firing their guns or pausing in firing their guns to throw grenades. Their armour has corset-like decoration on it, but that's got nothing to do with what's inside the armour, it's just the gothic style - which, by the way, generally involves covering up rather than showing off. Now, I may find ankle-length skirts sexy, but I am very much aware that I'm in the minority on that front, and I seriously doubt they sculpted the Sisters models just to titillate me personally (although the timing is suspicious - we did both start mainline 40k in '96/97. Hmm...). Oh, and their faces are all very... manly. :p

I use female guard substitutes that I think are just as good, design wise, without being sexed up, in the form of Shadowforge Miniature's Politburo Worker's Batallion. I also use sexed-up Shadowforge "Spec. Ops Marines", who dress like Catachans and suffer slightly for being supermodel-tall but are otherwise not that tarted up, considering they wear tank tops and combat trousers/boots and not much else.

Personally, I think Catachans are fine as they get to use the "cheesy B-movie" card to deal with any accusations of masculine sexualisation. People who don't notice the differences between the female Catachan flamer girl and the Raging Heroes line should have a check-up on their eyes, tho.

It may also be worth pointing out that masculine sexualisation is done to appeal to male players, whereas female sexualisation is done to appeal to ... male players. I thought it logical that the former is more condoned because it actually works for their gender rather than against it, but I suppose that hinges upon whether you realise the difference between something being shown as strong and heroic or something being displayed as eyecandy.

Jimsolo wrote: The Sisters of Battle are even more sexualized than 2/3 of the Raging Heroes line, and that seems to be okay.

The Repentia are really the only models that are overtly sexualized.

Now, artists who have no concept of anatomy and of how the human body would fit inside of powered armor (or apparently how power armor works) while maintaining the kind of typical muscle mass that an elite level soldier would possess...

Well yeah, the Sisters are typically drawn... awful, to say the least.

The models themselves aren't really that bad aside from the boob plate that makes it easy to distinguish them as girls.


That said, almost everything Raging Heroes does is silly. There are a handful of figs that look like they might fit the IGuard aesthetic, but for the most part, those models fit solely into the "I want an army of sexy girls" demographic. We need to wait to see a lot of the actual figs, but if they look anything like the concept art, it's just a bunch of supermodels wearing skintight "armor". Basically, the cheesecake cosplay equivalent of soldiers. You know, figures for the people who believe these girls are actually in the military.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Jimsolo wrote: The Sisters of Battle are even more sexualized than 2/3 of the Raging Heroes line, and that seems to be okay.

The Repentia are really the only models that are overtly sexualized.

Now, artists who have no concept of anatomy and of how the human body would fit inside of powered armor (or apparently how power armor works) while maintaining the kind of typical muscle mass that an elite level soldier would possess...

Well yeah, the Sisters are typically drawn... awful, to say the lease.

The models themselves aren't really that bad aside from the boob plate that makes it easy to distinguish them as girls.


That said, almost everything Raging Heroes does is silly. There are a handful of figs that look like they might fit the IGuard aesthetic, but for the most part, those models fit solely into the "I want an army of sexy girls" demographic. We need to wait to see a lot of the actual figs, but if they look anything like the concept art, it's just a bunch of supermodels wearing skintight "armor". Basically, the cheesecake cosplay equivalent of soldiers. You know, figures for the people who believe this girl is actually in the Chinese army.

The sisters are handed out on loan these days?

I've not spent a lot of time (any, actually) around Chinese soldiers... but I did spend years in the US Army. You know what? We did have some incredibly hot women soldiers around. We also had some that weren't. By the same token, some of the guys were extremely homely. Some of them would not be out of place in one of those fire-fighter beefcake calendars.

Why do people find it so hard to wrap their heads around the concept that there are attractive people in the military?

 Psienesis wrote:
I've not spent a lot of time (any, actually) around Chinese soldiers... but I did spend years in the US Army. You know what? We did have some incredibly hot women soldiers around. We also had some that weren't. By the same token, some of the guys were extremely homely. Some of them would not be out of place in one of those fire-fighter beefcake calendars.

Why do people find it so hard to wrap their heads around the concept that there are attractive people in the military?

Because some people think that warriors deserve only ugliness?

Because they either are in the military and are ugly so refuse to believe that anyone could be more attractive than them, or are pretty and not in the military because it's beneath them. :p