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 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Not to mention he has IWND and might regen every turn. Does anyone else feel Swarmy is going to take a nerf bat to the groin when the next codex drops?

Doubt it, if anything he'll get buffed as he's the super sekrit special character.

Now Tervigons...Tervigons will be nerfed, marked my words.

I will kill every baby in the world if tervigons get nerfed. If t'nids can't have baby poopers, no one can.

They might get a change in utility like Broadsides instead of a true nerf though.

 Kain wrote:
Nevertheless, whenever a hulked out Swarmlord fights a Primarch, you definitely should have over the top epic video game boss music playing.

All other comments are invalid.

I really want to break out the Swarmlord vs Horus now. As soon as the Horus model comes out, its EPIC BOSS FIGHT time!

 ductvader wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Nevertheless, whenever a hulked out Swarmlord fights a Primarch, you definitely should have over the top epic video game boss music playing.

All other comments are invalid.

I find this to be quite suitable.

The hyperbole surrounding Horus makes my eyes hurt.

Of course an Iron-Armed Swarmlord is more than a match for Horus. IA Swarmy is probably the best fighter in the game.

Also, with 4 rolls on the Biomancy table, the Swarmlord has over an 85% chance to get Iron Arm meaning that it is far more likely than not going to get it.

Iranna.

I believe the Primarch rules also confer to them IWND rule also. Problem is Iron Arm Swarmlord can hurt him but its still about statistics. You need to get the power first, even with 4 rolls on biomancy your odds of getting it are not 85% because you roll one dice at a time. Than you have to get the power off which with leadership 10 odds are in your favor. But on the flipside your odds of rolling a 1-2 are exactly the same as rolling a 5-6. You need to luck to match up against Horus and Angron in combat, not saying its not possible cause its the same way with Mephiston if you get the right stuff, but your outcome of being able to even stay in combat with him is all dependent on luck. You dont get Iron Arm than your gonna be splattered.

UncleGlock wrote:
I believe the Primarch rules also confer to them IWND rule also. Problem is Iron Arm Swarmlord can hurt him but its still about statistics. You need to get the power first, even with 4 rolls on biomancy your odds of getting it are not 85% because you roll one dice at a time.

Rightio...so it goes down to a measly 80%

I will kill every baby in the world if tervigons get nerfed. If t'nids can't have baby poopers, no one can.

Your rage...it sustains me...

UncleGlock wrote:
I believe the Primarch rules also confer to them IWND rule also. Problem is Iron Arm Swarmlord can hurt him but its still about statistics. You need to get the power first, even with 4 rolls on biomancy your odds of getting it are not 85% because you roll one dice at a time. Than you have to get the power off which with leadership 10 odds are in your favor. But on the flipside your odds of rolling a 1-2 are exactly the same as rolling a 5-6. You need to luck to match up against Horus and Angron in combat, not saying its not possible cause its the same way with Mephiston if you get the right stuff, but your outcome of being able to even stay in combat with him is all dependent on luck. You dont get Iron Arm than your gonna be splattered.

You also get to reroll any result that lands you with a power you already rolled up, so figure that in too.

Personally i think the best bet for killing a Primarch and slaughtering the Swarmlord is Skarbrand. 7 attacks base, 9 attacks on the charge, init 10, ws 10, with Hatred. Has an ap2 axe at initiative with fleshbane so he wounds on +2 and he causes instant death.

A 100pt GK Champion on the charge might get a draw!

Is the champions dieing ability a psychic power? Or a piece of wargear/abiltiy? I cant remember.

UncleGlock wrote:
Is the champions dieing ability a psychic power? Or a piece of wargear/abiltiy? I cant remember.

Good point...psychic power. Hm, well Valeria's Hyperstone Maze then? There are many "odds and ends" ways of destroying almost anything in the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let's just bring on the Red Terror!

UncleGlock wrote:
Personally i think the best bet for killing a Primarch and slaughtering the Swarmlord is Skarbrand. 7 attacks base, 9 attacks on the charge, init 10, ws 10, with Hatred. Has an ap2 axe at initiative with fleshbane so he wounds on +2 and he causes instant death.

With Iron arm he isn't getting instant death, nor will he get instant death on Horus, who also wounds him on a 2+ and has a 3+ invulnerable save. Skarbrand will lose the first round and continue to lose as he's being forced to strike at I1 against Horus due to concussive. The Swarmlord also will rebuff his attacks with a 4++ invul save and IWND from endurance and strike him down with attacks that wound him on a 2 and force him to reroll his paltry invulnerable save.

I suspect Swarmy will get hit with a bit of a nerf bat; after all when he was originally designed he was never intended to have psychic powers that boost his toughness, strength, attacks, and give him EW and IWND.

I think SL using only Codex powers would probably lose pretty quick to Horus, or any of the Primarchs - as you'd expect given the difference in points cost.

Horus beat the buffed Swarmlord's face in as he should due to being one of the strongest primarchs. I don't know where everyone is getting the Swarmlord being able to win except by miracles but due to the 3+ invul Horus will always win and by a large margin. Horus being dealt 2 wounds and then healing 1 of them (Horus has 6) is what is statistically most likely to happen if they meet

Just to point out. To take a Primarch you need to use the Lord of War slot.

You can take Super-Heavies in the Lord of War slot.

Does that really count as Non-apocalyptic?

Dundas wrote:

I suspect Swarmy will get hit with a bit of a nerf bat; after all when he was originally designed he was never intended to have psychic powers that boost his toughness, strength, attacks, and give him EW and IWND.

I think SL using only Codex powers would probably lose pretty quick to Horus, or any of the Primarchs - as you'd expect given the difference in points cost.

I very much doubt Tyranids and Swarmy in particular will lose access to Biomancy or Telepathy.

Iron Arm, Biomancy being given to bugs, and most bug psykers being T6 is not something that is just "unintended"

I think Swarmlord will stay close to what he is. He is supposed to be the master of all tactics and combat...his weakness is being slow and easy to shoot.

 ductvader wrote:

Dundas wrote:

I suspect Swarmy will get hit with a bit of a nerf bat; after all when he was originally designed he was never intended to have psychic powers that boost his toughness, strength, attacks, and give him EW and IWND.

I think SL using only Codex powers would probably lose pretty quick to Horus, or any of the Primarchs - as you'd expect given the difference in points cost.

I very much doubt Tyranids and Swarmy in particular will lose access to Biomancy or Telepathy.

Iron Arm, Biomancy being given to bugs, and most bug psykers being T6 is not something that is just "unintended"

I think Swarmlord will stay close to what he is. He is supposed to be the master of all tactics and combat...his weakness is being slow and easy to shoot.

Don't say that, or else he might end up with wings, mastery level 3, and armored shell and everyone will give us dirty looks when we use him.

 Kain wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

Dundas wrote:

I suspect Swarmy will get hit with a bit of a nerf bat; after all when he was originally designed he was never intended to have psychic powers that boost his toughness, strength, attacks, and give him EW and IWND.

I think SL using only Codex powers would probably lose pretty quick to Horus, or any of the Primarchs - as you'd expect given the difference in points cost.

I very much doubt Tyranids and Swarmy in particular will lose access to Biomancy or Telepathy.

Iron Arm, Biomancy being given to bugs, and most bug psykers being T6 is not something that is just "unintended"

I think Swarmlord will stay close to what he is. He is supposed to be the master of all tactics and combat...his weakness is being slow and easy to shoot.

Don't say that, or else he might end up with wings, mastery level 3, and armored shell and everyone will give us dirty looks when we use him.

Swarmlord with Wings...

Who let Mat Ward into our codex?

Heck, if that was true I'd carry around a mirror to give myself dirty looks when I used him.

 ductvader wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

Dundas wrote:

I suspect Swarmy will get hit with a bit of a nerf bat; after all when he was originally designed he was never intended to have psychic powers that boost his toughness, strength, attacks, and give him EW and IWND.

I think SL using only Codex powers would probably lose pretty quick to Horus, or any of the Primarchs - as you'd expect given the difference in points cost.

I very much doubt Tyranids and Swarmy in particular will lose access to Biomancy or Telepathy.

Iron Arm, Biomancy being given to bugs, and most bug psykers being T6 is not something that is just "unintended"

I think Swarmlord will stay close to what he is. He is supposed to be the master of all tactics and combat...his weakness is being slow and easy to shoot.

Don't say that, or else he might end up with wings, mastery level 3, and armored shell and everyone will give us dirty looks when we use him.

Swarmlord with Wings...

Who let Mat Ward into our codex?

Heck, if that was true I'd carry around a mirror to give myself dirty looks when I used him.

To be fair, the Swarmlord Model would look rockingly badass with wings.

I'd have to do 2 sets of 2 slender wings to mirror the swords


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let's just start a Swarmlord worship thread

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:Not to mention he has IWND and might regen every turn. Does anyone else feel Swarmy is going to take a nerf bat to the groin when the next codex drops?

He's already over-costed, if they nerf him he'll end up being basically useless, and I don't really see them doing that after they made him an option in the Hive Tyrant kit.

 Kain wrote:

UncleGlock wrote:
Personally i think the best bet for killing a Primarch and slaughtering the Swarmlord is Skarbrand. 7 attacks base, 9 attacks on the charge, init 10, ws 10, with Hatred. Has an ap2 axe at initiative with fleshbane so he wounds on +2 and he causes instant death.

With Iron arm he isn't getting instant death, nor will he get instant death on Horus, who also wounds him on a 2+ and has a 3+ invulnerable save. Skarbrand will lose the first round and continue to lose as he's being forced to strike at I1 against Horus due to concussive. The Swarmlord also will rebuff his attacks with a 4++ invul save and IWND from endurance and strike him down with attacks that wound him on a 2 and force him to reroll his paltry invulnerable save.

Yet again you supposition for Swarm Lord is that your always gonna get Iron Arm and Eternal Warrior. Your logic all depends on luck. If you dont have Eternal Warrior than Skarbrand instant kills you. If you dont get +2 Stength or better than your wounding on +3. You have 4 attacks plus whatever else you might pick up from random psychic powers. +4 invul and it will not die wont save you from all wounds and you only get to roll once for it will not die a turn. Skarbrand hits you on +3s with reroll with instant death and 7-9 attacks wounding you no matter your toughness on 2s. Your entire argument hinges on you having Iron Arm and Endurance. What happens if you have Iron Arm and no Endurance? Instant death and your gone. What happens if you Endurance and no Iron Arm? Now your wounding me on +4 unless you halve your attacks and go strenghth 10 in which case im still T6 so what. you need +4 to hit me unless you buff your WS up to 10. Not saying Swarmlord isnt a beast but too much of what he can do is all dependent on luck whereas Primarchs and Skarbrand have everything built in.

UncleGlock wrote:

 Kain wrote:

UncleGlock wrote:
Personally i think the best bet for killing a Primarch and slaughtering the Swarmlord is Skarbrand. 7 attacks base, 9 attacks on the charge, init 10, ws 10, with Hatred. Has an ap2 axe at initiative with fleshbane so he wounds on +2 and he causes instant death.

With Iron arm he isn't getting instant death, nor will he get instant death on Horus, who also wounds him on a 2+ and has a 3+ invulnerable save. Skarbrand will lose the first round and continue to lose as he's being forced to strike at I1 against Horus due to concussive. The Swarmlord also will rebuff his attacks with a 4++ invul save and IWND from endurance and strike him down with attacks that wound him on a 2 and force him to reroll his paltry invulnerable save.

Yet again you supposition for Swarm Lord is that your always gonna get Iron Arm and Eternal Warrior. Your logic all depends on luck. If you dont have Eternal Warrior than Skarbrand instant kills you. If you dont get +2 Stength or better than your wounding on +3. You have 4 attacks plus whatever else you might pick up from random psychic powers. +4 invul and it will not die wont save you from all wounds and you only get to roll once for it will not die a turn. Skarbrand hits you on +3s with reroll with instant death and 7-9 attacks wounding you no matter your toughness on 2s. Your entire argument hinges on you having Iron Arm and Endurance. What happens if you have Iron Arm and no Endurance? Instant death and your gone. What happens if you Endurance and no Iron Arm? Now your wounding me on +4 unless you halve your attacks and go strenghth 10 in which case im still T6 so what. you need +4 to hit me unless you buff your WS up to 10. Not saying Swarmlord isnt a beast but too much of what he can do is all dependent on luck whereas Primarchs and Skarbrand have everything built in.

If he doesn't get IA, I won't allow you to get into assault with him and instead have him tarpitted by an endless swarm of cheap (quite often free) gants for the rest of forever. Meaning you've wasted all your points on the bloodthirster while I keep on trucking.

And concession accepted on Horus beating Skarbrand's face in.

Skarbrand is 225 points. Yet again you say you will tarpit me with your stuff and ill destroy your tarpit with my horde of cheap bloodletters. My hordes are cheap now, its the nice thing about demon troops now. Your counterpoint isnt very good. But goes to my point that your argument falls apart when luck isnt on your side. In a perfect world Mephiston and Swarmlord are awesome. But its not perfect and if your Swarmlord, not sure his cost, is now ducking me the whole game cause you didnt get one power than hes probably not as good as something that comes static awesome. I run Mephiston alot, one of my favorite characters, but even at lvl 3 dont always get what i want.

UncleGlock wrote:
Skarbrand is 225 points. Yet again you say you will tarpit me with your stuff ill destroy your tarpit with my horde of cheap bloodletters. Your counterpoint isnt very good.

Bloodletters are terrible and die like chumps to overwatch and cross field shooting by either Legion list or Tyranid shooting and then get stuck at hitting at initiative one and thus getting beaten to death by gants with toxin sacs or marines. Smart people buy Daemonettes instead. With the exception of Skarbrand, monokhorne in the Daemons book is exceedingly terrible.

I disagree with your thoughts bout bloodletters but do agree about daemonettes being nice but now we are totally off track. Your counter argument to "my Swarm Lord is awesome as long as luck is on my side but when it isnt was to throw chaff at you and run aways." Than hes not really that big a threat to a primarch or Skarbrand. Though i retract my previous thought on going toe to toe with Horus with Skarbrand. I forgot about the concussive part of his weapon.

UncleGlock wrote:

 Kain wrote:

UncleGlock wrote:
Personally i think the best bet for killing a Primarch and slaughtering the Swarmlord is Skarbrand. 7 attacks base, 9 attacks on the charge, init 10, ws 10, with Hatred. Has an ap2 axe at initiative with fleshbane so he wounds on +2 and he causes instant death.

With Iron arm he isn't getting instant death, nor will he get instant death on Horus, who also wounds him on a 2+ and has a 3+ invulnerable save. Skarbrand will lose the first round and continue to lose as he's being forced to strike at I1 against Horus due to concussive. The Swarmlord also will rebuff his attacks with a 4++ invul save and IWND from endurance and strike him down with attacks that wound him on a 2 and force him to reroll his paltry invulnerable save.

Yet again you supposition for Swarm Lord is that your always gonna get Iron Arm and Eternal Warrior. Your logic all depends on luck. If you dont have Eternal Warrior than Skarbrand instant kills you. If you dont get +2 Stength or better than your wounding on +3. You have 4 attacks plus whatever else you might pick up from random psychic powers. +4 invul and it will not die wont save you from all wounds and you only get to roll once for it will not die a turn. Skarbrand hits you on +3s with reroll with instant death and 7-9 attacks wounding you no matter your toughness on 2s. Your entire argument hinges on you having Iron Arm and Endurance. What happens if you have Iron Arm and no Endurance? Instant death and your gone. What happens if you Endurance and no Iron Arm? Now your wounding me on +4 unless you halve your attacks and go strenghth 10 in which case im still T6 so what. you need +4 to hit me unless you buff your WS up to 10. Not saying Swarmlord isnt a beast but too much of what he can do is all dependent on luck whereas Primarchs and Skarbrand have everything built in.

You're confused about what Iron Arm and Endurance do.

If he doesn't get IA (unlikely) he's very likely to get Enfeeble. Enfeeble + Smash == dead Skarbrand iirc (no Eternal Warrior, right?)

All these swarmlord arguments depend on him getting Iron Arm. Without it, he is biting the dust hard on turn 1. Can we really take such an important factor for granted?