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Had a look and can't really find much up to date Blood Angels stuff, was looking for a large 6th ed tactics thread like most other armies have, can't seem to find one. Sorry if there is one somewhere obvious and i've missed it.

Anyway, Blood Angels. I'm planning on a new 40k project and will probably go Marines (do various stuff, allies and what not just to have a nice variety) and want to start with Blood Angels mainly because of Death Company.

Firstly, i'm not looking to be ultra competitive or anything, but would like an army that isn't an auto-lose in a large percentage of games. So what do Blood Angels do best at the moment considering the recent codex releases.

Death Company. Ideally i'd like to have a squad in a Storm Raven, because that'd be cool. How would it be best to utilise this at 1750 points? I'd be open to just using them as allies in another Marine army if that was better.

Anything tactics wise BA, Death Company or BA allied or as allies with other Marine codexes would be great!

I'm inclined to go with the 11th company guys and staple Tau onto BA to plug holes in the codex. Of course, I'm not sure why you wouldn't just use pure Tau, but that's another story.

I play against a pretty good BA player regularly, and he's toyed around with various delivery methods for Death Company. I have to say, the most annoying to face is just a good old fashioned drop pod full of DC right in my face turn 1. It pretty much forces me to deal with them immediately, which is annoying.

I'm against Stormravens as transports anyway, as I think they are far better as gunships. On top of that, I would want to have my DC on the board threatening units immediately, and the potential for bad reserve rolls could keep two killer units (Raven and DC) off the board for 3 turns.

The drop pod method has some flaws, especially with Eldar AP 2 flamers. The main problem I have is that my BA lists can easily deal with a single squad of DC dropped off, or even a Fragnought plus DC. It's okay to ignore the rest of the BA to deal with those units, because of the rest of the list usually isn't that good or scary.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It doesn't help that even naked DC in a drop pod are 250+ points. And you are dropping them into rapid fire range, flamer range, etc. I'm basically all LR all the time for DC now. It's far, far from perfect. I'm not contending that. But I want all my DC to be able to hit. Not just send them in as a 250 pt distraction for a turn.

Hadn't thought about a Land Raider to be honest, even though I like them. Would a Crusader or Redeemer be better to allow for some up close support fire? Don't really need anti tank LCs right up close....

Land Raider Crusader, can fit 16 in it, so 15DC plus a character if required. Lots of bolter fire, plus TL Assault Cannons and a multi-melta for good measure. Great fun to be had.

Uh, 15 DC + Chaplain + LRC is around 650 points minimum.. Pass.

Main problem with DC is that they don't score for some inane reason since other "blood thirsty" unit score such as Berserkers. If they were a scoring unit you'd have some actual troop options without having to clog up your FOC with Sang priests.

Alas.. not for another 5 years.

If they take 5 years to put out a BA codex, I'll be out of this hobby for sure. There's this thing called Starcraft where the devs *do* care about game balance.

It will be out before Christmas in 2014, I'd guess. After C:SM, Orks, and Nids are off the table (the rumored next three), only the Sisters and BT would be before us in line to get a new book. Even throwing in 5 or 6 mini-dexes (since it doesn't appear that those will occupy a months release all by themselves), I think we should get a release inside of 18 months at the current rate.

Forgot Space Wolves. And Dark Eldar.

No I didn't. Honestly, why would they go first? We clearly need it more, and at least DE are much newer (not sure of SW).

I have a feeling they will be first. I've seen the date Q1/Q2 2015 a couple places on the internets. GW doesn't give a crap how bad we need it.

I've taken to running a 6 man DC squad with 3 axes in a godhammer LR. But I use my LR and my stormraven for anti tank. Honestly I'd be happy if someone drop podded DC right next to me they should kill them first anyways. And while they can be effective from a Raven the potential for death added to a turn 3 charge at the earliest make it tough to do very well with.

The DC get 15 str 5 ap- attacks and 15 Str 6 ap2 attacks on the charge, which is pretty good to muderize most things. With no chaplin you save points and IC cannot be pseudo saved by a challenge. much more than that is over kill on the first charge. however more DC will give some staying power for the second or if you are luck third charge.

I put a talon DC dread in the Raven to drop off somewhere tactical. If the raven gets shot down its an auto pen on it but 50% it does only a hull point due to ignoring stunned and shaken. (it gets shot down way less than you would think)

As far as allies go, I've used codex marines, IG and Tau.

C:SM just allow some decent ICs, Null zone and Gate.
IG gives cheap vendettas, super cheap large amounts of scoring units, and the ability to stick a BA libby in a blob squad. I enjoy running leman russes as well but a few fast vindicators kill better but are less survivable. A 65 point Marbo is decent too.
Tau is what I'm playing with now, but I run them differently than I would with full tau army, you just don't have the points even at 1850 or 2000 to fit the BA goodies that you want and run a gunline style Tau element, Right now I run 20 kroot outflanking with a hound, And an Iridium commander with 10 gun drones. I'm planning on finding points(and dollars) for a riptide next. So far it has really worked out well.

First0f0ne wrote:
I've taken to running a 6 man DC squad with 3 axes in a godhammer LR. But I use my LR and my stormraven for anti tank. Honestly I'd be happy if someone drop podded DC right next to me they should kill them first anyways. And while they can be effective from a Raven the potential for death added to a turn 3 charge at the earliest make it tough to do very well with.

The DC get 15 str 5 ap- attacks and 15 Str 6 ap2 attacks on the charge, which is pretty good to muderize most things. With no chaplin you save points and IC cannot be pseudo saved by a challenge. much more than that is over kill on the first charge. however more DC will give some staying power for the second or if you are luck third charge.

This I can see, but I might swap an axe for a fist, and one for a power sword. Fist for vehicles and high toughness daemons, and sword for other CC units that have decent armor. Another benefit of not have the chaplain in this case is that when they assault, they are more likely to get stuck in combat so they can't be shot at, and still have enough power to finish things off in the second round.

So some content rather than cry cry want new codex.

BA's still have a few spoiler lists they can run based on current meta that will upset quite a few opposing armies.

Let's look at what's passable for the points first.

-Basic Death Company are still reasonable at 20ppm, 6 attacks per model. Do they blend? Yes.
-Frag-a-naughts.
-Discount Assault Squads
-Dedicated Landraiders
-Attack Bikes
-Meltabomb Vanguard
-Divination Librarians
-Sternguard with FNP
-Bikes with FNP

Probably the #1 current spoiler list they can run is Land Raider heavy, which runs directly counter to the current lean towards the glut of Strength 7 and Plasma>Melta. Min assault squads provide the discount for 215 point standard Land Raiders, TWin Linked Lascannons for rerolls on Fliers. 3 scoring units and 3 Raiders for <1000 points, annoying for a lot of armies, and leaves points to play with. I like Bike Libby+Bike Priest+2 units of MM Attack Bikes to round out for 535 points, and you're still sub 1500.

Another option is Drop-Pod rush, where the key is to order your pods so that you front load as much as possible, probably the preferred reserve options are 100 point Parachute squads of assault marines (free pod) to claim an objective, and/or dakkanaughts for 155 that pop down to anti-flier. Good firstwave opitions are tri-melta Assault squads (sarge w/2 infernus, meltagun, drop-pod for 140 points) to can-open, with Sternguard+Corbulo, Frag-a-naughts, Bolter DC, etc to shred the non-cans.

Best ally option is probably still Coteaz with a small henchmen squad to score, for his abilities to help with Alpha striking. Lets you add in a Str8 Dakkanaught or a Jump Knight for an alpha list as well.

eg Alpha list

Librarian
Corbulo
Frag-a-Naught, pod
8 Sternguard, some combis, pod
10 Death Company, pod
10 Assault Marines, Sarge 2xinferus, Melta, Flamer, pod
10 Assault Marines, Sarge 2xinferus, Melta, Flamer, pod
5 Assault Marines, pod
5 Assault Marines, pod
Dakka-naught, pod
Dakka-naught, pod

1750 pts:
Reclusiarch = 130 pts
2 LR with 5 man Basic assault squads = 630
1 LRR with 5 man Basic assault squads = 305
1 LRC with 5 man Basic assault squads = 315
1 LRR with 5 man DC w/2 Power Axes = 370

Without expecting it in their list, most armies likely wouldn't have enough fire power for 5 LR's...Necrons with lots of Gauss maybe (although seems most like Tesla). Everything else, just be sure to focus on killing the few units with the firepower to hurt LR. Else, just sit there and light up the enemy, jump out last turn onto objectives.

 invisiblade wrote:
1750 pts:
Reclusiarch = 130 pts
2 LR with 5 man Basic assault squads = 630
1 LRR with 5 man Basic assault squads = 305
1 LRC with 5 man Basic assault squads = 315
1 LRR with 5 man DC w/2 Power Axes = 370

Without expecting it in their list, most armies likely wouldn't have enough fire power for 5 LR's...Necrons with lots of Gauss maybe (although seems most like Tesla). Everything else, just be sure to focus on killing the few units with the firepower to hurt LR. Else, just sit there and light up the enemy, jump out last turn onto objectives.

While *VERY* effective, it's also very cheesy and not likely to make you any friends... not to mention it's not really using the DC. If you keep the scoring units inside the tanks, that poor DC unit will get picked on and die in short order. If you keep them in too - why take them at all?!

To the OP - have you considered a full on Astorath list? Big units of basic DC, combination of combat and bolters with a fist/hammer and an infernus pistol or two in each. Throw in some DC dreadnoughts for good measure if you like. This of course means no scoring units, so you have to concentrate on full-on assault instead - which only makes it more fun. It's also actually pretty effective, since most people aren't prepared for it either. And you don't have to worry about taking Priests!

It has some very hard counters, like Heldrakes, and you don't really have anything for flyers, but most of the time you can safely ignore them as you're looking to be in combat as much as possible.

1750 should get you (haven't worked out *exact* costs):
Astorath
2x Chaplain
15x DC (close combat), 1 hammer, 2 infernus pistols
15x DC (close combat), 1 hammer, 2 infernus pistols
15x DC (bolters), 1 hammer
2x DC Dread with meltagun and magna grapple

Man I'd love to run 5 land raiders I do seriously doubt many lists in my meta could handle them. Would they put out enough damage though?

D

Furthermore, who owns 5 land raiders? I don't think the list is good enough to justify the real world money it costs.

 evildrcheese wrote:
Man I'd love to run 5 land raiders I do seriously doubt many lists in my meta could handle them. Would they put out enough damage though?

D

This is the real problem, in my opinion. Who cares if the list is cheesy; nobody should complain about a 6th edition BA list. It would be like whining about Necrons in the days of their old codex or Sisters now.

You're also going to have trouble with scoring. Bailing out on an objective is a great plan, but it runs against the problem that 5, 6 and 7 turn games are all equally likely. The new Eldar codex presents a particular problem, as small units of Jetbikes are now both really, really cost effective and also pack pretty decent firepower for the points. Against a 5 Land Raider list as Eldar, I'd place all my objectives in the open. Good luck holding them with 5 Marines against the new pseudo-rending Shuriken Catapults.

All that said, this probably one of the better BA list ideas I've heard in a while. Man, I miss the days when I could use my six Predators to deny objectives. That more than anything else has shelved my BA.

One final thought: If you want to spam Land Raiders, at least LRCs, Dark Angels is the way to go. Doubling the firepower of Hurricane Bolters goes a decent way towards fixing the firepower issue, and DA Tac Squad + LRC is only 5 points more than BA Assault Squad + LRC, and the Tac Squad's Bolters benefit from the Standard of Devastation too.

I'll stick with the BA. I don't even own a single Land Raider never mind 5! The only reason the 5LR list appeals is because it's so off the wall from anything I've ever run It does look super fun though.

Same BA problems, fun but uncompetitive lists.

D

Thanks everyone for the replies!!

5 Land Raiders sounds funny, but don't imagine i'll be buying 4 more Land Raiders to make it a reality And against armies with a high model count its going to be a really boring game, moving 5 tanks around for a bit, then getting a squad or two out while the opponent moves his 100 infantry or shoots with 15 different units.

@ Super Ready
I had thought about an Astorath list, going full on Death Company is something really appealing as it just is cool. 45 Death Company a couple of Dreads and Astorath would be really nice on the table as well. Well worth considering for me. We're not particularly flyer heavy at my club, more Chaos flying MCs than anything else, as far as I know only 1 person has a helldrake. The necron player with most flyers doesn't use much anymore because of how good they are, and then a few vendettas kicking about. so I wouldn't be too worried about flyers anyway.

@ Halfpast_Yellow
Nice summary there, drop podding is another very tempting option, haven't used a drop pod myself in years but its always nasty dropping things right in front of the enemy.

@first0f0ne
Sounds good, I think its far too tempting to go for bigger Death Company squads, especially when like me, you want to take them because they are cool not because they are necessarily the most ideal thing to be taking. But I can see a small squad in a Land Raider being pretty effective, you have the anti-tank and anti-infantry type stuff all in one there, both elements very powerful and should be able to do there job.

As to 15 in a LRC being too expensive, maybe, but is sure is effective. I often run it in my local, and it causes most opponents to have kittens.

DC may not be scoring in all games (they are in some) but they are denial units.

Full on Astorath list would be great fun I think.

I have done a 2 LR (LRC & LRR) with a DC & Reclusiarch bomb in one, and an assault squad in the other at 1000 points. My opponent didn't like it at all.

Blood angels do a good AV13 wall with all the predator's and baal predators they can take. However, you can't take all those, if you waste points on death company. Death company eat your points up monstrously, both in their upgrades, and in method's to get them to your enemy. Stormraven makes a pretty bad transport for them, as you have to wait till at least turn 2 to get the raven on, and at least turn 3 or 4 to get the death company actually into assault. Which is a waste of the huge amount of points you pay for them, when you only get to actually use them for half the game or less. And they don't score, which is the biggest problem with them.

Here's what I would do. Create your own BA chapter, with the
colour scheme of the death company. Paint assault marines to look like death company. Paint vehicles black with red X's. You get the same flavour, just without the whole "My troops can't score" syndrome.

Hmmm, that 5 LR list looks awesome. If have to do it as BT though. Still doable, as I believe it's the only other marine book that can take LRs as DTs for any unit.

The AV 13 predators don't score either. Just saying.

 Endriu Death Coy wrote:
DC may not be scoring in all games (they are in some) but they are denial units.

This is either a house rule, or something from a supplement I'm not familiar with. Planetstrike or Cities of Death? But in any case - you'll want to check the Codex again. Bestiary entry for DC, under "Black Rage" - it's stated that they are never scoring.

Nope, look at the battle supplements book, some scenarios state all infantry models are scoring, even if they are not usually able to.

If I remember it correctly, the codex overrules that scenario thing.

I agree, as far as I'm aware codex always trumps other rulebooks and missions etc.

D