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DarthDiggler wrote:
I might be wrong, but I think the Reapers average 3 hull points a turn against armor 14. 9 shots twin-linked and rerolling armor pens. That would mean 4 sixes would just be a little above average, but not much.

When the riptide nova charges the ion gun, doesn't it become str 9 and ordnance? That would give it two rolls for armor pen and take the highest. Not the worst thing to use against Land Raiders.

Elite armies always suffer from dice swings and the more games you play the higher the chance you will suffer from a dice swing.

On that first turn of shooting against the Dark Reapers, did he make 5/6 saves? The dice in the picture show 5 saves out of 6 dice. If that was the case his dice would not have been hot. He beat the average by only one.

No, those dice didn't represent his saves. That was because each LR fired separately and the saves were taken separately. First the Prometheus with 6 TL-shots and 6 TL-snap-shots, the the thunderfire cannon via PotMS, and then the Whirlwind and 4 TL-lascannons (against 4+ cover for the lascannons).

I killed 1 DR on Turn 1 so that means only 9 guys firing back. Twin-linked BS4 means that 8 hits. Re-roll armor pen = 2.4 glances.

Riptide was shooting like crazy. 2 S9 shots resulting in 2 immobilized land raiders? All I've got to say to that is: Wow! Nice shooting!

2 str 9 shots?

He shot his ion accelerator large blast str 9 ordnance, twice in one turn?

Or are you just saying through 2 turns he immobilized 2 raiders. If so. Disregard my above statement.

 Clauss wrote:
2 str 9 shots?

He shot his ion accelerator large blast str 9 ordnance, twice in one turn?

No, in 2 turns. Each turn he immobilized a LR.

A quick question if I may? In your game against the Necron, you used Jaws to take out the Necron Warlord, but from the picture it doesn't look like you had LoS.

Has Jaws lost the requirement of LoS to an enemy model?

Cheers

Andrew

PS I may be remembering an earlier edition rules here.

 AndrewC wrote:
A quick question if I may? In your game against the Necron, you used Jaws to take out the Necron Warlord, but from the picture it doesn't look like you had LoS.

Has Jaws lost the requirement of LoS to an enemy model?

Cheers

Andrew

PS I may be remembering an earlier edition rules here.

I had LOS. I checked carefully and was able to see his head because he was a somewhat tall model on his base.

Great reports again, Jim. I like the list. Great gamble for a small event. Game 3, however, really demonstrated the risk of putting all your eggs in one(4) basket(s).

Kudos to Jason. Going in knowing he had a tough matchup, he was able to formulate a plan and stick to it, never faltering along the way. It shows that with a good plan any matchup can be won with a little luck.

Okay, I wasn't doubting the result, just my knowledge/rememberance of the rules....

Cheers

Andrew

Jim's force had me worried, I felt pretty confident that I could take out two LR by the games end, but I really needed to stall him on the advance. I won the roll off and forced him to go first so that he would be forced to deploy centrally or to one flank, then I tried to steal the initiative so that I could hopefully drop the ION ordinance down on his huddled LRs, (even though it was in my advantage to take the last turn due to objectives), although I managed to do the same thing essentially by going second. The way his LRs ended up behind the wreck hampered LOS from some of his guns to my Fire Base, allowing me to continue firing (seeing the top of his raiders), but minimized what was shot back in the same direction.

I had to stall him away from my lines because my force was designed to crumble to HTH (so that targets could be immediately shot at on my turn), but if he got too close with the protection of the LRs with his Puppies, or if I lasted through his turn in HTH he would quickly kill off my armor platted goldfish and faerie vulcans on my turn and be lined up for the next kill. It worked out for the best when the Nightwing came in and shot up the black LR on turn two (destroying it) and the Riptide immobilized the last one, behind his lead tank which was now a wreck. That securely forced him away from my lines with no chance of making it across that gap unscathed.

So each Dark Reaper gets a S8 shot? That's kind of insane if its true.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
So each Dark Reaper gets a S8 shot? That's kind of insane if its true.

Their T3 Devestator Marines with Missile Launchers.

That is insane and kind of broken. They have Slow and Purposeful... They are like mini me Oblits !

Yeah, but that 9 man unit is something like 350pts.

Worth it with S&P!

For the Tournament they were easily my MVP each and every game, wiping out pretty much whatever they were pointed at.

Either 9 Str8 TL/TankHunters or 18 Str5AP3 TL MEQ death

each time ignoring cover, it was gross. The unit is expensive (342 pts) plus the commander for another 137, then add the Spirit Seer for 70 more, and BAM you are sitting on a 500+ unit, but wow what a tough nut to crack it is.

Put it on your back line and then only their heavy weapons are going to threaten it and even then you are probably getting a 2+ save, and if your farseer gets fortune, they are never going to kill it.

My first two opponents were the BAO winner in the first game with the Slanneshi Rush army, and the second game was against the IG dual blob with 4 flyers.

Each one of my opponents were outstanding players, with great tactics and tough armies. Top that off with fun to play against, and the wins really became secondary for me in terms of what I walked away with after that tournament.

Thanks Jy2 for a great report/game and if you two are reading, Liz and Bill for those first games as well.

Well done, Z3n1st!

While I like the quad raider list i feel there are other armies that would be a better choice such CSM. So many points were sunk into the land raiders that the squads inside were basically nothing more than place holders for objective grabbing with JAWS thrown in for good measure. On top of that JAWS will struggle versus high initiative armies such as eldar. I think cutting back to two to three land raiders and investing the spare points into stronger units would have been a lot better approach for this type of list. Dark Angels probably also would have been a better choice for the parent list.

Did I miss it in an earlier page and Kevin's chaos list was posted? If not does anyone know what it was to post? I would be interest to see it.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
While I like the quad raider list i feel there are other armies that would be a better choice such CSM. So many points were sunk into the land raiders that the squads inside were basically nothing more than place holders for objective grabbing with JAWS thrown in for good measure. On top of that JAWS will struggle versus high initiative armies such as eldar. I think cutting back to two to three land raiders and investing the spare points into stronger units would have been a lot better approach for this type of list. Dark Angels probably also would have been a better choice for the parent list.

I think Jy2 wanted the psychic nullification that comes with the rune priest.

DarthDiggler wrote:
I might be wrong, but I think the Reapers average 3 hull points a turn against armor 14. 9 shots twin-linked and rerolling armor pens. That would mean 4 sixes would just be a little above average, but not much.

When the riptide nova charges the ion gun, doesn't it become str 9 and ordnance? That would give it two rolls for armor pen and take the highest. Not the worst thing to use against Land Raiders.

Elite armies always suffer from dice swings and the more games you play the higher the chance you will suffer from a dice swing.

On that first turn of shooting against the Dark Reapers, did he make 5/6 saves? The dice in the picture show 5 saves out of 6 dice. If that was the case his dice would not have been hot. He beat the average by only one.

Indeed, people underestimate Reapers/Tau Commander and I think the Eldar army had the tools for sure. That is why if I ever see that combo across from me, I will cringe (and plan on using it myself as often as possible). The Nightwing can get what, 2 Brightlances or something crazy like that? So ultimately, between the Reapers/Riptide/Nightwing, Eldar with tau fodder (I'm sure Tau are merely tools to the Eldar) had a very good chance to destroy 1-2 Land Raiders a turn IMO. All in all, I would have tried to get within 24" asap of his Reapers to try to block some of those powers and maybe try to engage them in combat but it seemed like the dice were just not helping JY2 any lol! Poor Achilies =(. At least it did better than the movie Troy!?

Wow I didn't expect those Eldar to wipe the floor with the Land Raiders that swiftly. The more batreps I see of new Eldar the more they scare me actually.. Every single time I see what faces them and think, that should be close... And somehow the Eldar always do better than I expected from seeing the lists.

I chuckled as I kept looking at Jim’s opponent in round 2 and 3 as I apparently was the stepping stone to play him. Round one against Will and his Necron Grey Knights, and then round two against Jason with his Eldar and Tau. Great tournament and I do look forward to another one down the line and continuing reading up on Jim exploits.

@z3n1st

Thanks for the game and congrats on your finish. That is quite an impressive feat you pulled off, offing 2 GT winners in a single tournament. Lol.

I will use your comments as your Post-game.

 hippesthippo wrote:
Great reports again, Jim. I like the list. Great gamble for a small event. Game 3, however, really demonstrated the risk of putting all your eggs in one(4) basket(s).

Kudos to Jason. Going in knowing he had a tough matchup, he was able to formulate a plan and stick to it, never faltering along the way. It shows that with a good plan any matchup can be won with a little luck.

Thanks. Yeah, I took something that no one was expecting and almost pulled it off. Alas, it just wasn't meant to be.

Congrats to Kevin and Jason both for going 3-0 and 1st/2nd.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
So each Dark Reaper gets a S8 shot? That's kind of insane if its true.

It's an upgrade that costs +8 pts per so it's not entirely cheap, but they are still a good unit (though I wouldn't go so far as to call them great).

Their big downside, however, is that they are actually easier to kill than standard marines due to T3.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
That is insane and kind of broken. They have Slow and Purposeful... They are like mini me Oblits !

Not really. They are actually quite easy to kill and will die to volume-of-fire just like any other marines, only worse due to their T3. The combination my opponent used cost about 700-pts and fortunately for his unit, they were just making their saves.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
While I like the quad raider list i feel there are other armies that would be a better choice such CSM. So many points were sunk into the land raiders that the squads inside were basically nothing more than place holders for objective grabbing with JAWS thrown in for good measure. On top of that JAWS will struggle versus high initiative armies such as eldar. I think cutting back to two to three land raiders and investing the spare points into stronger units would have been a lot better approach for this type of list. Dark Angels probably also would have been a better choice for the parent list.

Unfortunately, that is one of the inherent weaknesses of a LR-spam list....it's got somewhat fragile troops. It's just something you have to learn to deal with when running such a build.

I was actually thinking of running CSM LR-spam but felt it was a little too cheesy. This is what my Chaos LR list would have looked like:

Abaddon

5x Chosen
10x Cultists
10x Cultists

Land Raider - Dirge Caster, Dozers
Land Raider
Land Raider

Heldrake
Heldrake
Heldrake


Rune Priests are great utility characters. Not only can they use Jaws, but I take them for:

1) Psychic defense.

2) Flexibility - Murderous Hurricane for hordes, Living Lightning for AT

3) Defense - Stormcaller for cover for all my LR's

4) If I really needed to, I could swap them out for Divination or Telepathy powers and try to go for powers such as Misfortune, Terrify, Puppet Master, etc.


Dark Angels got nerfed when their Power Field got FAQ'd. I was actually contemplating taking DA allies for the Power Field, that is, until I read their FAQ's.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

aManBearPig wrote:
Did I miss it in an earlier page and Kevin's chaos list was posted? If not does anyone know what it was to post? I would be interest to see it.

No, his list was not posted, but I can tell you approximately what it was (I've played against variations of his lists several times already).


Fateweaver
Tzeentch Herald - Psyker, Grimoire, Locus of Conjuration
Slaanesh Herald - Psyker, Locus of Grace, Lesser Gift (Etherblade)
Chaos Sorcerer - Lvl 3?

6x Fiends of Slaanesh

Large block of Daemonettes
10x Daemonettes
Large block of Pink Horrors
10x Cultists

20x Seekers of Slaanesh
Heldrake


I think that is about it.

BTW, congrats to Janthkin for taking this RTT tournament as well as for winning Animecon with his Chaos as well!

 mortetvie wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:
I might be wrong, but I think the Reapers average 3 hull points a turn against armor 14. 9 shots twin-linked and rerolling armor pens. That would mean 4 sixes would just be a little above average, but not much.

When the riptide nova charges the ion gun, doesn't it become str 9 and ordnance? That would give it two rolls for armor pen and take the highest. Not the worst thing to use against Land Raiders.

Elite armies always suffer from dice swings and the more games you play the higher the chance you will suffer from a dice swing.

On that first turn of shooting against the Dark Reapers, did he make 5/6 saves? The dice in the picture show 5 saves out of 6 dice. If that was the case his dice would not have been hot. He beat the average by only one.

Indeed, people underestimate Reapers/Tau Commander and I think the Eldar army had the tools for sure. That is why if I ever see that combo across from me, I will cringe (and plan on using it myself as often as possible). The Nightwing can get what, 2 Brightlances or something crazy like that? So ultimately, between the Reapers/Riptide/Nightwing, Eldar with tau fodder (I'm sure Tau are merely tools to the Eldar) had a very good chance to destroy 1-2 Land Raiders a turn IMO. All in all, I would have tried to get within 24" asap of his Reapers to try to block some of those powers and maybe try to engage them in combat but it seemed like the dice were just not helping JY2 any lol! Poor Achilies =(. At least it did better than the movie Troy!?

It's a good combo for sure. I only thing I don't like about it is that it is quite fragile for its costs.

Also, in this game, I was in somewhat of a catch-22 situation. Here I've got 3 objectives (2 Crusade and my Emperor's Will) on my side and only 2 on his side. To go towards him would be to leave behind my objectives. As for my opponent, he had 4 squads of jetbikes as well as outflanking kroots to get to objectives anywhere. He also had a farseer on jetbike ready to contest if necessary.

Baktru wrote:
Wow I didn't expect those Eldar to wipe the floor with the Land Raiders that swiftly. The more batreps I see of new Eldar the more they scare me actually.. Every single time I see what faces them and think, that should be close... And somehow the Eldar always do better than I expected from seeing the lists.

They can be really good. All the newer codices - Tau, Eldar and Daemons - are top-notch. Eldar reminds me of necrons when they came out. On first glance, they appeared to be just ok....nothing to overly powerful. But once you get down to it, the synergies in those 2 codices were amazing as well as very deceptive. If you under-estimate them, you are going to lose big time.

Taudar, err.... "eldau" is truly a brutal combination. There is so much synergy between the codices that they might as well be one.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
Taudar, err.... "eldau" is truly a brutal combination. There is so much synergy between the codices that they might as well be one.

Really? I was thinking (theory only) that an Eldar primary is helped out more by their Dark allies than Tau. However, I could see Tau primary gaining a lot from Eldar.

 Panzer1944 wrote:
I chuckled as I kept looking at Jim’s opponent in round 2 and 3 as I apparently was the stepping stone to play him. Round one against Will and his Necron Grey Knights, and then round two against Jason with his Eldar and Tau. Great tournament and I do look forward to another one down the line and continuing reading up on Jim exploits.

That is quite a very unusual "honor" indeed.

Honestly, your army looked quite daunting. My LR list does not have great anti-air firepower.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
Taudar, err.... "eldau" is truly a brutal combination. There is so much synergy between the codices that they might as well be one.

Yeah, and it's just so unfair. The 2 newest codices - Tau and Eldar - are both top-notch codices. And to top it off, they can ALLY with each other as BATTLE BROTHERS!!! How messed up is that?!?

 jifel wrote:

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
Taudar, err.... "eldau" is truly a brutal combination. There is so much synergy between the codices that they might as well be one.

Really? I was thinking (theory only) that an Eldar primary is helped out more by their Dark allies than Tau. However, I could see Tau primary gaining a lot from Eldar.

I agree. I think the combinations of Eldar + Dark Eldar and Tau + Eldar are 2 of the strongest combinations currently. There are just so much shenanigans those armies can team-up to accomplish.

Oh, and Daemons + CSM is no slouch also.

ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
Taudar, err.... "eldau" is truly a brutal combination. There is so much synergy between the codices that they might as well be one.

Yeah, and it's just so unfair. The 2 newest codices - Tau and Eldar - are both top-notch codices. And to top it off, they can ALLY with each other as BATTLE BROTHERS!!! How messed up is that?!?

Still keeps me puzzling what idiot messed up the ally chart and killed TRAITOR GUARD

I was actually thinking of running CSM LR-spam but felt it was a little too cheesy. This is what my Chaos LR list would have looked like:

Abaddon

5x Chosen
10x Cultists
10x Cultists

Land Raider - Dirge Caster, Dozers
Land Raider
Land Raider

Heldrake
Heldrake
Heldrake

This is a much better list IMO.

 Dozer Blades wrote:

I was actually thinking of running CSM LR-spam but felt it was a little too cheesy. This is what my Chaos LR list would have looked like:

Abaddon

5x Chosen
10x Cultists
10x Cultists

Land Raider - Dirge Caster, Dozers
Land Raider
Land Raider

Heldrake
Heldrake
Heldrake

This is a much better list IMO.

It felt a little too cheesy for me so I decided not to go with it.

Good thing too. I didn't finish my 3rd heldrake in time so was going to borrow Reece's heldrake. Reece then couldn't make it on the day of the tournament so I would have been playing with a 1580 list.

Or you could have borrowed my second drake....

 Janthkin wrote:
Or you could have borrowed my second drake....

I could've, but for several reasons:

1) Wasn't sure you were coming.

2) Wasn't sure you would be bringing Chaos.

3) Wasn't planning to run triple-heldrake Chaos.