Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

As I said, it doesn't have Blind, it has Blinded
different rules

 Kain wrote:
What kind of dreadnought are you using that can only be glanced by S7 strikes?

Either a Furioso (Blood Angels) or the one from C: Space Marines that is also AV13 on the front. Ironclad I think.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Charge him with a Dreadnought.

It's surprising how often "killer" characters/units can't deal with that.

What is "melta bombs" for 5 points or "melta weapons" for 10 pts, Alex.

Melta-bombs are not the end all be all. you get maybe 1 pen, but less than 66% of the time.

Of that one pen 1/2 the time it does not even wreck the Dread.

And the Dread gets to try to eat you before your Unwieldy Meltabomb can even try to be used...

Also, an axe of blind fury makes that khorne lord S6. That's a hull point knocked off per 6 hits, which isn't that difficult to achieve when you've got all those attacks + demon weapon attacks + the guys nearby rooting for you.

Plus, the lord can always take a combi-melta (and can easily be in a squad with melta weapons), which means they could always just shoot the dreadnought instead.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Melta-bombs are not the end all be all. you get maybe 1 pen, but less than 66% of the time.

Of that one pen 1/2 the time it does not even wreck the Dread.

And the Dread gets to try to eat you before your Unwieldy Meltabomb can even try to be used...

Oh no! What ever will I do against a 2 attack model that is ws4?

And having to wreck it doesn't even need to be the primary goal, even with meltabbs. You can destroy its close combat weapons . Furthermore, melta weapons often do the trick.

Personally, I'm planning on using it on a Khorne DP. S9 on the charge with constant S8 afterwards means I'm wounding everything that isn't a Wraith MC or GUO on 2's without resorting to smash. Instant killing T4 is a nice bonus, as is getting Rage.

I even save 10 points from using the Black Mace.

And hey, combine with a sorcerer using invisiblity and enjoy being WS1 in CC or dealing with a 2+ cover save...

A Dreadnought I would think would do the trick one-on-one - even if you do miss your attacks and manage to get your weapon destroyed, you're still not going anywhere and that oh-so-killy Khorne Lord is not doing his job. I'd rather have him take a good couple of turns to wear down a Dread than have him chew through every other unit I have.

The problem is getting him alone in the first place. I've not seen one taken without a Juggernaut for the extra speed or a large unit of Berzerkers to mop up and take wounds, and they have lots of krak grenades to bring along...

One thing to bear in mind is that as a character, he must make and accept any challenges. A Berzerker unit will usually have a Champion to allow the Lord to carry on with his usual killyness, but you don't get that option with a Jugger lord with Spawn. If you can throw someone like Lysander, Draigo or Arjac in there you should be golden. Otherwise, bear it in mind if you can throw a sacrificial Sergeant or something to keep the rest of the unit alive long enough to stay on an objective - normally you WANT the Lord to kill or break everything on the charge so at least you get to fire at him in your own turn.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Melta-bombs are not the end all be all. you get maybe 1 pen, but less than 66% of the time.

Of that one pen 1/2 the time it does not even wreck the Dread.

And the Dread gets to try to eat you before your Unwieldy Meltabomb can even try to be used...

Oh no! What ever will I do against a 2 attack model that is ws4?

And having to wreck it doesn't even need to be the primary goal, even with meltabbs. You can destroy its close combat weapons . Furthermore, melta weapons often do the trick.

Methinks you have not run into many furioso Dreadnoughts.

WS6 4 attacks rerolls to wound and more attacks for every unsaved wound. It eats pretty much any Meq unit really nicely...

But in that case it won't ID him anyway, which is what we're discussing.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Melta-bombs are not the end all be all. you get maybe 1 pen, but less than 66% of the time.

Of that one pen 1/2 the time it does not even wreck the Dread.

And the Dread gets to try to eat you before your Unwieldy Meltabomb can even try to be used...

Oh no! What ever will I do against a 2 attack model that is ws4?

And having to wreck it doesn't even need to be the primary goal, even with meltabbs. You can destroy its close combat weapons . Furthermore, melta weapons often do the trick.

Methinks you have not run into many furioso Dreadnoughts.

WS6 4 attacks rerolls to wound and more attacks for every unsaved wound. It eats pretty much any Meq unit really nicely...

I dont think there will be many furiosos on 500p game. And on larger games, I dont think there is any reason to run into them, they move 6", meanwhile Juggerlord moves atleast 12", so there is pretty fat chance you will catch him. And in bigger games dreadnoughts seem to be nothing but a first blood for opponent. GL playing furiosos against oblits, how many turns you think they last?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
But in that case it won't ID him anyway, which is what we're discussing.

It just might ''ID'' him by sheer number of chained attacks tho

 Bobthehero wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
But in that case it won't ID him anyway, which is what we're discussing.

It just might ''ID'' him by sheer number of chained attacks tho

Exactly.

My Furioso's have put out 8 wounds on a Squad of Thousand sons, One HQ would be cake for him to kill.

and a furioso in a 500 point game is totally viable plus he is near the whole army so you have to get close to him to do any damage at all. AV13 is not easy to crack in a 500 Pt game.

Though I generally play by Adepticon's Combat Patrol rules if I am playing 500 points or less as the rules are really wonky below 1000 points.

I run DC Dreads with the standard Dread weapons instead of claws (I know, heresy!). Furiosos can be armed in the same way - as such they have WS6, 4 attacks *AND* will cause ID - they just don't get the repeating attacks. Either way, caught in a one-on-one that Lord is screwed without some lucky glances.

 Super Ready wrote:
I run DC Dreads with the standard Dread weapons instead of claws (I know, heresy!). Furiosos can be armed in the same way - as such they have WS6, 4 attacks *AND* will cause ID - they just don't get the repeating attacks. Either way, caught in a one-on-one that Lord is screwed without some lucky glances.

And then we get to question, why would lord go alone? With chaos codex there are multiple cheap taxi's for lord to get combat safely; Spawns, bikes and even cultists.

He has to challange ,so feed him your sgts . He will be killing 1 model per turn .

He only has to challenge (or accept) if he is locked before I10. Not trivial to engineer, but entirely possible, that first round he will not be in locked adn tehrefore (after 3" move) free to slaughter.

It can also be taken by a Daemon Prince and can be even more destructive. It drops his WS from 9 to 8 so he still hits most things on a 3+, gives him Str 8, Rage and DPs start with 5 attacks and Int 8. Meaning in worst case scenario for your opponent, you will bearing him down with a WS 8, Str 9, Int 8 Monstrous Creature with Str 6 HoW, and 13 attacks.

Oops

 Deadshot wrote:
It can also be taken by a Daemon Prince and can be even more destructive. It drops his WS from 9 to 8 so he still hits most things on a 3+, gives him Str 8, Rage and DPs start with 5 attacks and Int 8. Meaning in worst case scenario for your opponent, you will bearing him down with a WS 8, Str 9, Int 8 Monstrous Creature with Str 6 HoW, and 13 attacks.

You are a bad person for suggesting such a thing...

Actually that is fairly bad - the 1 point drop in WS means MEQ hit on 4s, not 5s. I woudl rather pay 10 points for always wounding on 2+ (whcih given Iron Arm Tyrants is a good thing (TM)), pseudo instant death (bypasses EW, but requires a failed T test) *and* the ability to hurt huge blob squads simply by them being near me.

You get nearly the same number of attacks (up to 12 on the charge, plus HoW) AND kill on average half the IG blob within 3" of you, *and* any unit not in comba tthat isnt that close. It means the challenge "trick" with Blob sarges doesnt really help them stay alive

Getting him into combat with something that causes instant death is one thing, using ID causers to harry him away from squishy targets is something else entirely. I played against him last saturday with my nurgle daemons/tau list and I just ran after him with my soul grinder, front armour 13 means he's striking after me and glancing me on 6's if I get the charge. Just plopping one of these guys (a venerable dreadnought could be used to the same effect but they are not as competitive) infront of him can drastically weaken his effect on the game, and while he is avoiding you, your CC units mop up his army while your more squishy shooty units have plenty of time to bring him down as a contingency

How about both.

750pts list here. Fails at anything but sheer beatstick and rofling from the destruction.

Khorne Prince with AoBF, Wings and Power Armour 255
Nurgle or Tzeentch Prince with Black Mace, Mastery Level 3, Wings, PA 340

Chaos Space Marine Squad 100
Power Weapon, Meltagun

Chaos Cultist Squad 50

I'm not that worried by the WS9 to WS8 drop. Most of the time you're only getting hit by Krak grenades so there isn't that much damage either way.

For TH/SS, you just want to be sure you can nearly wipe them on the charge. Don't get in a tarpit.

 shamikebab wrote:
Just had a small 500pt game against a guy that took this on a Chaos Lord on bike. I haven't faced this weapon before.

This weapon seems to give +D6 S6 AP2 attacks with the drawback of -1WS (which as he's WS6 doesn't matter against most things)

so on a 1, he takes a wound.....but still does 4 S6 AP2 attacks (although hits on a 5), and if he gets a 6 he does 9 S6 AP2 attacks?!? The guy killed three thunder wolves in one turn then promptly slaughtered his way through the rest of my army.

Coupled with Rage and he can do 12 S6 AP2 attacks on the charge at initiative, for a 35 point weapon it seems insanely powerful! Is there something I'm missing? For a character that only costs 155pts it seems like he'd kill characters costed way above that with ease.

What he is missing is defense. Loyalist marines ICs can rock 2+/3++ saves very easily. The best chaos can get without TDA is 3+/4++. Also the Chaos character MUST challenge, so it is easy to get him locked into combat with a chump sergeant. Also that 1 point of WS comes back to bite you when going against other melee beasts as they are hitting you on 3+ now.

Now in a 500 point game, these things arent so glaring. The game can break down at 500 points.

3+/3++ if you're rocking the Mark of Tzeentch, but that obviously doesn't apply to a Juggerlord. The thing is, though, those who can generally tend to stock up on Librarians, who aren't exactly powerhouses in CC.

 Exergy wrote:

 shamikebab wrote:
Just had a small 500pt game against a guy that took this on a Chaos Lord on bike. I haven't faced this weapon before.

This weapon seems to give +D6 S6 AP2 attacks with the drawback of -1WS (which as he's WS6 doesn't matter against most things)

so on a 1, he takes a wound.....but still does 4 S6 AP2 attacks (although hits on a 5), and if he gets a 6 he does 9 S6 AP2 attacks?!? The guy killed three thunder wolves in one turn then promptly slaughtered his way through the rest of my army.

Coupled with Rage and he can do 12 S6 AP2 attacks on the charge at initiative, for a 35 point weapon it seems insanely powerful! Is there something I'm missing? For a character that only costs 155pts it seems like he'd kill characters costed way above that with ease.

What he is missing is defense. Loyalist marines ICs can rock 2+/3++ saves very easily. The best chaos can get without TDA is 3+/4++. Also the Chaos character MUST challenge, so it is easy to get him locked into combat with a chump sergeant. Also that 1 point of WS comes back to bite you when going against other melee beasts as they are hitting you on 3+ now.

Now in a 500 point game, these things arent so glaring. The game can break down at 500 points.

Flipside is the Chaos HQ will have T5 and 4W to help weather the assault.

Only 4 W w/ Jugger, this one was on a bike

Yeah, still 3 wounds Toughness 5 with 3+/4++ is quite hard to kill at 500 pts, especially when he's striking first with as many attacks as some squads

The only one that could stand up to him was my Lone Wolf (Storm Shield and FNP), he managed to do one wound (he lost another from the daemon weapon)