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Is there any reason why I couldn't take a riptide for my kill team? Someone mentioned it at my local club and I just don't see where you could go wrong with that. I guess I'll see this weekend when my local GW store runs their first kill team event since the new Tau codex came out.

..Let me know how it goes
I see no reason why not

aside from some cries of cheese, idk.

is it a H/S

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
aside from some cries of cheese, idk.

is it a H/S

He's an elite...

I was thinking about taking necron heavy destroyers but now...hhhmmmmm.....guess I better finish painting my riptide...

It depends upon the rules for the game really.

I seem to vaguely recall there being a limitation with regards to 2+ saves in some games of this.. but that might have been event specific.

The 2+ was event specific.

I have taken my riptide to 2 separate kill teams and is amazing. Not many armies can deal 2+5++, 5w, t6 model.

Could be the death of kill team tournaments unless you want to have a special "no riptides" allowed rule...or we'll start to see a lot of rock-em-sock-em robot tournaments...

Could also see people starting to tailor their lists to kill the Riptide, never mind the objectives.

Tarpits seem to be the counter, here, and some CC specialists. Get the tarpit unit tied up with the Riptide, then send in your hammer swingers.

I thought you couldn't have more than 2 wounds for KillTeams? But that may have been the older rules.

Not that it means anything really, but GW have amended the rules for their official 'Kill Team' events so that you must have a minimum of 3 models in your list. This was after the event closest to the Tau release, where 6 different Riptide players turned up. Go figure.

 AG. wrote:
Not that it means anything really, but GW have amended the rules for their official 'Kill Team' events so that you must have a minimum of 3 models in your list. This was after the event closest to the Tau release, where 6 different Riptide players turned up. Go figure.

Haha nice, the harpy team never seemed to bother people as much, and that was great fun.

 AG. wrote:
Not that it means anything really, but GW have amended the rules for their official 'Kill Team' events so that you must have a minimum of 3 models in your list. This was after the event closest to the Tau release, where 6 different Riptide players turned up. Go figure.

Do you have the link for that? Obviously that would change everything.

Edit: Never mind - just found it at http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3170054a_Kill_Team_Update_April_2013.pdf

But I don't think that applies to the official kill team rules as it looks like it's specific to a GW event.

I did a search for "40k Kill Team". One of the links was a PDF for the 2013 rules.

Happy hunting!

Yeah, I guess that's what I just found.

I can't actually see it performing that well against any kind of mission other than kill points. That Riptide is likely to be one model out of...what, 10 maybe? At most? Given kill teams' smaller points values. The handful of other models gets focused on, killed in short order, and you're stuck killing one model a turn. Less if you get it stuck in combat.

Theres an amendment to the Kill Team rules of no model with more than 3 Wounds. Ill try to find the link

I would not want to do that.

I am just picturing the smile on the opponents face that gave a sniper of theirs the Instant Death rule.

Yup, on a 4+ a 20 point model just killed a 200 point model.

Not really that hard to deal with. A lascannon with the instant death special rule could one shot it. Provided you're using the specialist rules. plasma always works well. The draw back for the rip tide is, unless it has the split fire or similar rule, it's only killing one model a turn. And if it's not fearless and has another model with it, kill the other model and it has to roll leadership tests every turn. Really when you get down to it a riptide isn't a good choice for killteams.

The only problem is per the 2013 Event Pack, Instant Death is not an option for Specialist.

If this link is the official FAQ then permission has been granted to take any special rule found in the special rule section of the Basic rule Book:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2600141a_Kill_Team_FAQ.pdf

This does create all sort of weird things, as it grants permission for weapon specific special rules to be applied as well. Ever wanted to fire a heavy burst cannon using large blast markers, because that now seems to be legal in kill teams. Want to make the fluff cry by taking a fire-warrior psyker, now is your chance! Stick Jinx onto a stealth suit and you have 2+ while moving through open terrain. The broken possibilities are endless!

If it is the official FAQ on this regard, because honestly it looks way too nice compared to the other FAQ's, it really has created a headache. At least Kill teams are not official rules, so friendly games can out right ban any over-the-top combinations. Tournament organizers would be well aware of the possibility of broken combinations and models as well so it is not likely to be a problem. It still can give us a little bit of a chuckle at least as it can become a game of finding whom has the most broken combination of models/weapons and special rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I did find another, more up to date, FAQ.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3170054a_Kill_Team_Update_April_2013.pdf

It doesn't really have much within it, though again they make their FAQ's for kill teams look so much better then the ones for the rule book. So by those original questions being omitted within this second more up to date FAQ we are forced to go back to the combinations found in the original PDF. This is not a bad thing given the rush of ideas for broken combinations I could come up with in under twenty seconds. It does mean that you can not take instant death on any of your weapons, so while you don't have to fear large blast marker heavy burst cannons you have lost the ability to one shot a riptide.

Though, by this event pack FAQ which might or might not be valid for all kill team games, you don't have to fear riptides at all as it has too many wounds and is a sole model in kill team games.

The problem with a single model in kill teams is that even with upgrades you are only targeting one maybe two of our opponents models with straight shots. With blasts you can get more but good placement limits the effect. With multiple units targeting a single model you have some very stacked odds. Take for instance deathmarks and scarabs vs the Riptide. You are going to have to make every save vs the Scarabs or loose the armour save and deathmarks have rending.... The amount of firepower diminishes greatly when you realize that the Scarabs can charge on the second turn at the latest.

Gravmyr wrote:
The problem with a single model in kill teams is that even with upgrades you are only targeting one maybe two of our opponents models with straight shots. With blasts you can get more but good placement limits the effect. With multiple units targeting a single model you have some very stacked odds. Take for instance deathmarks and scarabs vs the Riptide. You are going to have to make every save vs the Scarabs or loose the armour save and deathmarks have rending.... The amount of firepower diminishes greatly when you realize that the Scarabs can charge on the second turn at the latest.

I agree that scarabs are scary. However, if they do get in melee with the riptide, they are just as squishy as guardsmen to the riptide. The scarabs are a good choice, but from my experience, they are not a silver bullet.

If you are willing to risk it, it can use the Nova Reactor to either make your JSJ 4D6 and kite everything, or up the invulnerable to 3++ so the loss of armour isn't that painful.

I think that matchup falls to the player who's skill is higher.

 AG. wrote:
Not that it means anything really, but GW have amended the rules for their official 'Kill Team' events so that you must have a minimum of 3 models in your list. This was after the event closest to the Tau release, where 6 different Riptide players turned up. Go figure.

If theres a way to abuse a set of rules, you'll always find people willing and able to do so...

I'm sure that the fact that so many of these people play Tau is totally coincidental

I don't see how 2+/5++ is any better than a squad of termies with 2+/5++. Is it better because Tau doesn't have the option to take decent armor/invulns?

As stated above, the heavy firepower seems somewhat wasted in kill teams. I would rather have 5 models with 5 storm bolters that can shoot 5 targets, even with my godawful rolls.

The Tau do not have all that many models which can be considered terminator equivalent, and outside of the riptide only one other unit comes close. Sadly that unit is not available for kill team matches, on the grounds that it is categorized as heavy. The only runners up they have left would be a crisis team decked out for defense, but even those would trade a armor for invulnerability so they are not exactly terminator equivalents. Like wise, I do not think it is possible for them to be outfitted in both defensive equipment as well as suitable offensive equipment without breaching the 200 point limit you have on kill team matches. Those shield generators are expensive little toys....

Still, I think it is the allure of the massive number of wounds this model has, added with the capability of taking a 'terminator popping' weapon. If the situation is right, they are even capable of wiping out a whole unit of terminators in a single shot. However, in kill teams, that power is greatly decreased and you would need to be going up against someone who does something silly like positioning their men in a 'deep strike' formation for that to even occur.

So, I too would rather have multiple models as they are more flexible and have greater killing potential in this situation but the riptide is a beast in normal games for sure.

necron99 wrote:Is there any reason why I couldn't take a riptide for my kill team? Someone mentioned it at my local club and I just don't see where you could go wrong with that. I guess I'll see this weekend when my local GW store runs their first kill team event since the new Tau codex came out.

No, in straight Kill Team, there is nothing prohibiting it.
You can find the full 6th edition rules for kill team here.
It's a little cheesy, but not much worse than terminators, and it'll still die.

Though as has been stated, a fairly common one is a 3 model minimum. You can still take a Triarch Stalker and 2 Tomb Blades / Wraiths, or a Battlewagon + Nobz though...

Bausk wrote:Not really that hard to deal with. A lascannon with the instant death special rule could one shot it. Provided you're using the specialist rules. plasma always works well. The draw back for the rip tide is, unless it has the split fire or similar rule, it's only killing one model a turn. And if it's not fearless and has another model with it, kill the other model and it has to roll leadership tests every turn. Really when you get down to it a riptide isn't a good choice for killteams.

In Kill Team all models have a sort of... super Split Fire, where each shot can be made against a different model, because every model is a separate unit, so the Riptide could shoot up to 16 different models with an overcharged Heavy Burst Cannon. though more likely you'd be going 3-4 with 2/2 SMS and the Ion gun.
And yes, ultimately, and single model option isn't that good. I know a guy who likes to take a tank... I forget which, somehow it was legal to take... maybe an Armoured Company list? (I remember it checked out at the time).
It was hard as nails, and was not fun to try and kill, but it did die in the end.
Another one, was the Triarch Stalker as mentioned above, which was horrible as all my anti-tank basically fell over and died turn one, but once I killed the 2 Wraiths, he eventually failed his Strategic Withdrawl test and I won.

Happyjew wrote:The only problem is per the 2013 Event Pack, Instant Death is not an option for Specialist.

HA, that's the only problem you have with it.
It's overall terribly written, with tons of spelling mistakes which they haven't bothered fixing in the last 2-3 years since they initially released that document, even when they updated it to 6th ed, they just added more.... again, you can find the full 6th edition rules for kill team here.

I think I missed the part in the rules about splitting shooting. Either way I'm not sure who posted the rules you have put forth Ovion. There is no mark from GW, nor is the formatting consistent with other current GW rules. If we are going to use kill teams we should be using the most current version as published by GW or we have to use the original rules from battle mission which don't work well with 6th. The most current set of rules put forth by GW are Here. In the end I think most people are using these as they are from the most recent GW event.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also forgot, been a while since I played KT, that they can split their attacks between multiple targets. It takes some of the sting out but with a 14-24 range, with scarabs, each turn even trying to kite is gonna be hard. The shots from the Deathmarks will also wound on a 2+, so there is a lot of wounds each turn to save against while the DM's have a chance to stand up as well.... Not a perfect solution just one of the most effective.

Gravmyr wrote:
I think I missed the part in the rules about splitting shooting. Either way I'm not sure who posted the rules you have put forth Ovion. There is no mark from GW, nor is the formatting consistent with other current GW rules. If we are going to use kill teams we should be using the most current version as published by GW or we have to use the original rules from battle mission which don't work well with 6th. The most current set of rules put forth by GW are Here. In the end I think most people are using these as they are from the most recent GW event.

I posted them, which is why there is no mark from GW.
And it's the official full Kill Team rules, as found in the Battle Missions book, updated with the FAQs released for it to bring it to 6th edition. (You can check it against those sources, you won't find anything out of place).

The Kill Team Event Pack is primarily made for GW ran events at Warhammer and includes a Campaign for the days set of games (this often costs £30+ to enter too...) and is a modified Kill Team ruleset 'inspired' by the rules found in the Battle Missions book.

The only issue I have with it is this:

Game Workshop has released a second FAQ related to this. Now one could debate if this is meant to be be compiled with the original FAQ or if it is mean to replace it completely, the only thing it tells us is it is an update to the official mission pack. I do not have an answer for that one, but given how over-powered the last FAQ was I would not be so quick to state it was designed to compile with the existing FAQ. Still it is kill teams and you already are in 'expansion' territory, so as long as both sides are happy then there is no problem.

Good catch on the split fire rule though as that is actually in the initial mission pack and seems a lot of people have over looked it, including myself. For those looking for this rule it can be found within the every man for themselves section, on page 5 of the PDF. Last sentence highlights that you are allowed to split your attacks between eligible targets. Now what the 'eligible targets' means is debatable....

Can I have a link for the updates just wanna see what GW is considering an update/faq for this.