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I have 25 chosen form the DV set.

where i converted the normal bolter holding chosens into plasma and meltas.

after forming up 2 x 10 men squad.

I have 4 lightning claw guy and 1 sergeant left.

So I was thinking to run them as they are(I hate proxying, and they look good too)

I went to the codex and a 4 MAN squad of chosen is 215POINTS? WHAT?

Someone, Anyone. Please tell me if this is viable.

I've thought the only way to run them is MoK and landraider. with abaddon.

Thoughts?

I would also say MoS, IoE, in LR with Abaddon, giving Abaddon Feal No Pain as well.

 Solomongrundy wrote:
I would also say MoS, IoE, in LR with Abaddon, giving Abaddon Feal No Pain as well.

But they are already so expensive. Giving them IoE would cost another 30 points.

Even terminators don't cost 50 pts per model. :( its just sad.

I've got several Chosen squads based off the loyalist first chapters, I love them some of my favorite models ever, too bad they are completely worthless.

I've heard some success running them as a special weapons squad, but for cc they just aren't worth it they die like regular marines and cost as much if not more than termies, maybe the new Black Legion supplement will give then a boost, one can hope

2x210 wrote:
I've got several Chosen squads based off the loyalist first chapters, I love them some of my favorite models ever, too bad they are completely worthless.

I've heard some success running them as a special weapons squad, but for cc they just aren't worth it they die like regular marines and cost as much if not more than termies, maybe the new Black Legion supplement will give then a boost, one can hope

BUT I AM WORD BEARERS. AND I STILL DON'T GET WHY WOULD THEY GIVE BLACK LEGION A SUPPLEMENT.(Okay this one aside).

Imo. With their base attack of 2. With MoK. That's 5 attacks on a charge. But 50 pts a pop is just too hard to swallow for me. And almost 250 pts for a 5man unit?
Man even terminators don't cost that much. Terminators with lighning claws is only slightly more expensive per unit I think. But the attack output isn't that much. (But come on. X2 str, ap3, who needs that extra attack?)

Yes I've had some good run with them with special weapon spam. But I just don't know what to do with the remaining 4 models with lightning claws.

Chosen are far too expensive to be awesome most of the time. The trick is to try and run them cheaply. Such as a five man squad with four plasmas. Stick them in a Rhino with a combi-plasma and spew glowing balls of hatred at your enemy.

But I too want my Word Bearers Supplement.

kissmymom wrote:
I have 25 chosen form the DV set.

where i converted the normal bolter holding chosens into plasma and meltas.

after forming up 2 x 10 men squad.

I have 4 lightning claw guy and 1 sergeant left.

So I was thinking to run them as they are(I hate proxying, and they look good too)

I went to the codex and a 4 MAN squad of chosen is 215POINTS? WHAT?

Someone, Anyone. Please tell me if this is viable.

I've thought the only way to run them is MoK and landraider. with abaddon.

Thoughts?

The DV chosen with CCW are pretty terrible. The dual lightning claw ones particularly so.
What you want to do it clip off one lightning claw and replace it with a bolter, combi plasma, or combi melta. Then you use these models and aspiring champions for your regular CSM.
There are a lot of unit you want to run a naked aspiring champion on, but if you do add wargear, a single lightning claw is usually best and a combi plasma isnt a huge waste.
The problem is you have 4 dual lightning claw guys, that is 8 claws, so 8 aspiring champions.

 Exergy wrote:

kissmymom wrote:
I have 25 chosen form the DV set.

where i converted the normal bolter holding chosens into plasma and meltas.

after forming up 2 x 10 men squad.

I have 4 lightning claw guy and 1 sergeant left.

So I was thinking to run them as they are(I hate proxying, and they look good too)

I went to the codex and a 4 MAN squad of chosen is 215POINTS? WHAT?

Someone, Anyone. Please tell me if this is viable.

I've thought the only way to run them is MoK and landraider. with abaddon.

Thoughts?

The DV chosen with CCW are pretty terrible. The dual lightning claw ones particularly so.
What you want to do it clip off one lightning claw and replace it with a bolter, combi plasma, or combi melta. Then you use these models and aspiring champions for your regular CSM.
There are a lot of unit you want to run a naked aspiring champion on, but if you do add wargear, a single lightning claw is usually best and a combi plasma isnt a huge waste.
The problem is you have 4 dual lightning claw guys, that is 8 claws, so 8 aspiring champions.

I've painted them all. I dont want to clip them. sigh. I've thought of clipping the arm and put it on terminators. But I think the arm size is different?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

welshhoppo wrote:
Chosen are far too expensive to be awesome most of the time. The trick is to try and run them cheaply. Such as a five man squad with four plasmas. Stick them in a Rhino with a combi-plasma and spew glowing balls of hatred at your enemy.

But I too want my Word Bearers Supplement.

Word Bearers Supplement would be awesome. But any other legion is fine. BUT BLACK LEGION? I cannot accept that. lol.

Yeah. Cheap is the key 250pts can get me a 10 man squad maxed out with plasma or melta. :(

I dont think an Iron Warriors one would be excellent after what happened in codex 3.5. Man, I do miss that over-powered list from hell.

welshhoppo wrote:
I dont think an Iron Warriors one would be excellent after what happened in codex 3.5. Man, I do miss that over-powered list from hell.

Easy enough to make an Iron warriors list these days, spam your heavy slot with either vehicles or oblits and take imperial guard allies for basilisks.

The trick with chosen is to NOT overload them with special weapons. Its really tempting to give every model you own a special weapon, but they get cost prohibitive when you do so.

You need those bodies to absorb shots.

 labmouse42 wrote:
The trick with chosen is to NOT overload them with special weapons. Its really tempting to give every model you own a special weapon, but they get cost prohibitive when you do so.

You need those bodies to absorb shots.

But 4 special weapons is about right? If I add bodies. It will come to near 300pts investment in 1 unit. damn.

At those points, might as well use Warp Talons....

I used to use 6 Chosen with 5 flamers and a powerfist on the AC. 158pts of multi-template rage. Works wonders against anything with armour save 5 or 6.

welshhoppo wrote:
I used to use 6 Chosen with 5 flamers and a powerfist on the AC. 158pts of multi-template rage. Works wonders against anything with armour save 5 or 6.

Take 1 less chosen and add an HQ with the burning brand!

You need 6 because champ can't take a flamer, only combi weapons. Unless you only want 4 flamers

Take 6 with a HQ with Burning Brand and Huron. Place them in a Land Raider and laugh at your opponent as you set the board on fire.

This is actually my plan, except instead of HQ with BBoS, adding in Abaddon for some CC awesome after flames are up.

Give me my fluffy Night Lords list back! Why BL ????
Hmmm, as you say I love chosen fluff + the new models from DV are cool.
Too bad they are incompetent and too bad the only build is shooting viable.
I love the DV power fist model! Sorry I think the bones hanging from he lightning claw guys belt ridiculous but that's just my opinion.

 avedominusnox wrote:
Give me my fluffy Night Lords list back! Why BL ????
Hmmm, as you say I love chosen fluff + the new models from DV are cool.
Too bad they are incompetent and too bad the only build is shooting viable.
I love the DV power fist model! Sorry I think the bones hanging from he lightning claw guys belt ridiculous but that's just my opinion.

Its stupid how they kit the DV chosen with cc weapons when in competitive game environment the only viable way to run them(as I also do) is to max out special weapons.

But yes. They are all awesome models. I am using the power fist and axe guy as a normal chosen. Those are treated as normal cc weapon(I have no budget to get so many of them, lol, I have 24 of them)

kissmymom wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

The DV chosen with CCW are pretty terrible. The dual lightning claw ones particularly so.
What you want to do it clip off one lightning claw and replace it with a bolter, combi plasma, or combi melta. Then you use these models and aspiring champions for your regular CSM.
There are a lot of unit you want to run a naked aspiring champion on, but if you do add wargear, a single lightning claw is usually best and a combi plasma isnt a huge waste.

I've painted them all. I dont want to clip them. sigh. I've thought of clipping the arm and put it on terminators. But I think the arm size is different?

I painted up one of my dual lightning claw dudes and now he just sits on my painting table mocking me.

It's a pretty easy conversion to make the LC dude actually useful. Just clip off the claws and add some bolt pistols.

If you want to run special weapon dudes, take those chosen and run them as special weapon havocs. Same thing, but cheaper.

I do agree that looking through the codex, it's tough to find a place for chosen. You could use them as lightning claw carriers, but warp talons do that for much cheaper (and much better). You could use them as a means of delivering plasma or meltaguns, but once again, havocs. You could give them a power weapon, but it's cheaper to take terminators, who also get a ++ and 2+, and deepstrike.

As best I can tell, the only terribly serious use for chosen is a cheap flamer unit. Unlike terminators, they can run in a rhino, while unlike warp talons they have guns, and unlike havocs, they don't waste a HS slot on a couple of flamers. Of course, the main problem wiht this is that you should have absolutely no need whatever for a unit like this in a CSM army, that already has anti-infantry oozing out every pore.

Otherwise, the best thing you can probably do with them is to use the models as aspiring champions in your other squads or to turn them into HQ choices.

 Ailaros wrote:
If you want to run special weapon dudes, take those chosen and run them as special weapon havocs. Same thing, but cheaper.

I do agree that looking through the codex, it's tough to find a place for chosen. You could use them as lightning claw carriers, but warp talons do that for much cheaper (and much better). You could use them as a means of delivering plasma or meltaguns, but once again, havocs. You could give them a power weapon, but it's cheaper to take terminators, who also get a ++ and 2+, and deepstrike.

As best I can tell, the only terribly serious use for chosen is a cheap flamer unit. Unlike terminators, they can run in a rhino, while unlike warp talons they have guns, and unlike havocs, they don't waste a HS slot on a couple of flamers. Of course, the main problem wiht this is that you should have absolutely no need whatever for a unit like this in a CSM army, that already has anti-infantry oozing out every pore.

Otherwise, the best thing you can probably do with them is to use the models as aspiring champions in your other squads or to turn them into HQ choices.

It really is all about slot competition. The HS slot is pretty crowded for CSM. Elites are not. Abby makes them troops, but that might not be all that useful, as you arent going to spam chosen and their (damage output) / surviability is pretty low, so they might not last long enough to score.

Play more apocalypse games. Then they're useful

Otherwise yeah....beautiful models but useless in the game. Curse you 6th edition with your overwatch and your slow vehicles and your assault vehicles and your 3d6-highest charging into cover and your forcing us to challenge!

 Exergy wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
If you want to run special weapon dudes, take those chosen and run them as special weapon havocs. Same thing, but cheaper.

I do agree that looking through the codex, it's tough to find a place for chosen. You could use them as lightning claw carriers, but warp talons do that for much cheaper (and much better). You could use them as a means of delivering plasma or meltaguns, but once again, havocs. You could give them a power weapon, but it's cheaper to take terminators, who also get a ++ and 2+, and deepstrike.

As best I can tell, the only terribly serious use for chosen is a cheap flamer unit. Unlike terminators, they can run in a rhino, while unlike warp talons they have guns, and unlike havocs, they don't waste a HS slot on a couple of flamers. Of course, the main problem wiht this is that you should have absolutely no need whatever for a unit like this in a CSM army, that already has anti-infantry oozing out every pore.

Otherwise, the best thing you can probably do with them is to use the models as aspiring champions in your other squads or to turn them into HQ choices.

It really is all about slot competition. The HS slot is pretty crowded for CSM. Elites are not. Abby makes them troops, but that might not be all that useful, as you arent going to spam chosen and their (damage output) / surviability is pretty low, so they might not last long enough to score.

I beg to differ. Yes they die regularly. But the damage output is significantly higher(in my experience) if you kit them out with 4 special weapons. and often become my opponent's target priority.

Survivability wise. yeah I agree. cost heaps more and die like regular marines. But hey. at least they are taking the heat off othere things.

ANYWAY. POINT IS. THE LIGHTNING CLAW IS STILL USELESS. with that kind of points I am better off with warp talons.

kissmymom wrote:


I have 4 lightning claw guy and 1 sergeant left.
.

Thoughts?

Put Jump packs on them and make them Warp Talons.

 FeindusMaximus wrote:

kissmymom wrote:


I have 4 lightning claw guy and 1 sergeant left.
.

Thoughts?

Put Jump packs on them and make them Warp Talons.

Good idea. But i already have 10 of them and I almost never field them. AT ALL. done it once. They died horribly.

 FeindusMaximus wrote:

kissmymom wrote:


I have 4 lightning claw guy and 1 sergeant left.
.

Thoughts?

Put Jump packs on them and make them Warp Talons.

That's rather like replacing Cholera with Syphillis.

I do not agree with most (if not all) of you.
Chosens are not useless, maybe just a bit overpriced (17pts/model probably would have been better).

Take a regular CSM, add a close combat weapon (already included with Chosens) and it becomes 15 pts.
Chosens costs 3 points more, but offer:

One additional close combat attack

One additional poin in leadership

The POSSIBILITY to add up to 5 special weapons (with a mix of range/cc)

I'm the first to say that the additional point in leadership is almost always useless (CSM champion already provide that level of leadership, not mentioning there are plentiful of ways to make them fearless). That's why they should cost 17, in my opinion. However, even withouth buying weapons, you are paying three points more, but you get one additional close combat attack (that means 3 normally, 4 if charging or 5 if charging with MoK.. not that bad).

The fact that you can buy all that special weapons... does not FORCE you to do that. It's all that weapons that make them extremely overpriced. Yes, if you get 5 plasmas you pay 75 more. But you are getting 5 plasmas... if you don't want that many, just avoid buying them!


That said, I'm the first to say that they are surely poorly designed. Add an additional 2pt upgrade (like a sort of daemonic gift) to CSM that gives them 2 base CC attacks and then Chosens become completely meaningless... That is quite explanatory, I believe.
I believe that some special rule (like infiltrate/scout) or gift (like a 5+ invulnerable save) at least would have given them a real meaning