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Sometimes Games Workshop confuses me, lately with the order of new codex releases. Tau and Eldar in my opinion were fairly well done and were both deserving of an update. I'm happy that rumors have Space Marines queued next but that's where it ends. It looks like Tyranids and IG are both coming before Orks. Wtf. I don't want this to just be me bitching but rather a logical examination of why certain armies get updated before others. My case is the Ork army. Is jt because they are unpopular? No. In fact Orks are one of the more iconic armies in 40k. A lot of people collect Orks, and the freakin starter box is half orks. People love the hilarity and funness of playing and facing orks so a codex update would surely make money. What about are they already a top army kn the 6th edition. No. Look at IG and nids for example, I would make the argument both those armies are currently more competitive than orks. There are other things but I just don't understand how they decide which army deserves an update.

IT could be selling what will be most profitable at the time.
SM and orks are likely to be popular. So it makes sense to space them apart to make more money.

That's a good point. Although nids and IG were very popular last edition as well. Also Tau and Eldar have shown how popular new codexs are when they release, and GW knows this and allows enough time between each release to cash in on the hot new stuff without stepping kn the toes of the next release. It does make sense for them to want to fully cash in, but I'm still confused. Plus it almost makes sense to go SM then Orks, they could make a new starter box and everyone would want it. That actually seems like a good idea.

TableTopJosh wrote:
... and the freakin starter box is half orks.

You're living in the past, dude... The current starter set contains Dark Angels and Chaos Marines.


Supposedly (based on comments by studio staff in the past), the release order is dictated by which codexes need an update the most at that time. I woudl strongly suspect that this is influenced in no small part by sales cycles as well... So two codexes that both desperately need updates might still be spread out in favour of releasing a less needy but better selling army.

But Eldar and Tau were not very popular armies before their releases, and I would argue Orks need an update more than IG and Nids. I know its a whole bunch of things that determine it, but it still makes no sense to me.

Just my 2 cents of course, but I feel like orks DEFINITELY needed one more than most armies. I definitely see the "this army sells better let's make a new codex first" but for an army to become popular that at least have to be playable...

I know orks are playable but it's getting a little harder and harder. The nerf to meks cover saves and the slugga boy change DEFINITELY dictates some help

There isn't much logic that can be deduced externally as to the order of releases. Some armies get a book every edition (Tyranids), some go a decade without updates (Dark Eldar), and everything in between. We have no idea what its like now, but at least in the distant past it has at least in part been up to the whim of the design studio.

Latest rumour about orks says october(Orktober)
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2013/07/faeits-rumor-tarot-breaking-news-black.html?m=1

Okay: I have no way to prove this, this is just my observation on releases that have come out recently:

There does seem to be a push to try to get everything updated with 6th ed (with a few exception for some late 5th ed books)

So far the armies we've seen have needed rules updates more then model updates. with Chaos Space Marines getting the biggest update in terms of models.

So far this seems to be holding true, with DA, Demons, Tau and Eldar.

Now, I know for sure that Black Templar need new models (swordbrothern are still metal) and Sisters of battle desperately need new models, So I'm not surprised we're not seeing them yet. True BT are a good candidate for a supplemental codex, so we might be seeing them at the same time as a vanilla SM update.

I'm not sure where Orks sit as far as metal models go, I've not looked into them really (as my brother wants to do Orks) but if they are mostly plastic models, then I feel safe with the rumored October release.

Ralis wrote:
Okay: I have no way to prove this, this is just my observation on releases that have come out recently:

There does seem to be a push to try to get everything updated with 6th ed (with a few exception for some late 5th ed books)

So far the armies we've seen have needed rules updates more then model updates. with Chaos Space Marines getting the biggest update in terms of models.

So far this seems to be holding true, with DA, Demons, Tau and Eldar.

Now, I know for sure that Black Templar need new models (swordbrothern are still metal) and Sisters of battle desperately need new models, So I'm not surprised we're not seeing them yet. True BT are a good candidate for a supplemental codex, so we might be seeing them at the same time as a vanilla SM update.

I'm not sure where Orks sit as far as metal models go, I've not looked into them really (as my brother wants to do Orks) but if they are mostly plastic models, then I feel safe with the rumored October release.

Most orks stuff that is old have been updated to finecast we orks kinda lack in variation of units but else.. only specialist things are in metal everything else is in Plastic and i hope the dakkajet will be added into the new codex... so we dont have to get a silly book for the flyers -.-

You bring up a good point about armies being ready for an update, meaning they have enough plastic models currently produced. Orks still have a problem with a few models, Meganobs, big guns, HQs, kommandos, looted wagons, warbuggies, flashgitz. It has led to ork players converting things, which is awesome in its own respects, but its pretty annoying when you can buy a box of tankbustas, which never see play, but you cant buy a box of meganobz, which I would say everyone wants to see happen. They are basically terminator models, not that difficult.

For a start, it should be noted that not all updates are equal.

There are "large" updates, such as the Dark Eldar One (over 30 unique new releases) or the Necron update (still ~ 25 unique releases) and there are "small" updates, such as the Blood Angels or Grey Knights one, which came in at only 6-8 unique releases each.

Most of the 2013 releases, while many of them, are fairly small. Dark Angels, Craftworld Eldar and Chaos Daemons only got 6 new kits/blisters each (though DA had the extra-boost through Dark Vengeance). Tau and CSM got 9, making them 50% larger than the other 3, though still barely 1/4 of former big releases like the Dark Eldar one.

And not all times are equally suited for all "sizes". GW tends to do the smaller releases in the summer (Blood Angels 2010, Grey Knights 2011, Space Wolves/Nids 2nd wave 2012), while keeping the far larger, more involved updates for fall/christmas (Dark Eldar 2010, Necron 2011, 6th Edition & CSM 2012).

So that is something you should consider. Dark Eldar, to name the most extreme example, was the equivalent to about 5 times the Blood Angels update, larger infact than the Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Grey Knights update taken together.

Thanks for your insight. I would imagine Orks being on the larger side?

One thing that GW does as well is stager their releases, so they don't get, all the money now, and nothing later.

This wouldn't look good on share holders, if they make all the money in say January and then nothing for 6 months. So while Orks will sell like hotcakes, GW could be waiting to sell them, when they know they will be a "slow period" and then have Orks to bring up the slack so it "looks" steady for the year.

eg, They sell Space Marines, make ton of money, then release Orks, make more ton of money, and then then next few releases are lack luster, so it will not look good in the books, that only 1Q (one quarter) made lots of money and the others didn't.

So this way they will sell SM, then a few "lack luster" releases and then sell Orks again.

Something like that, I know I didn't explain it very well but hopefully it made sense. It was taken from a few GW authors who said something like this, a few months ago by answering some question in a Q&A even.

Tyranid's need an update, due to the fact that they have a handful of great unit's, and a whole bunch of not so great. It also need's redesigning, as people tend to only take big monsters, and skimp on the infantry, when the book is intended to be horde.

IG, need an update, due to the fact they are basically part 2, of almost every other codex out there, due to being good allies, for almost every army.

Orks, while an old book, still hold up very well, still fulfill the intended role (Horde), and do not have quite as many dud choices as other books (Flash git'z, kommando's since 6th, for instance)

Orks are great, but as far as updates go, I think tyranid's need it more, despite being newer.

Orks dont have that many options either, and just because Nids bring the same list doesnt make them more deserving in my eye. PLus the list that Nids can bring is more competitive than any ork list, same with IG.

TableTopJosh wrote:
Orks dont have that many options either, and just because Nids bring the same list doesnt make them more deserving in my eye. PLus the list that Nids can bring is more competitive than any ork list, same with IG.

I call major bias. Green tide, is still an amazing army. Speed freaks, while not quite as amazing, can still work well. Green tide + big guns + aegis defence line, is utterly devastating now, and most armies really struggle to deal with it.

I agree, IG is a better book than the ork one, but that's part in part of why it needs an update. Vendetta's naturally need a nerf. And there are many many more dud units in it than orks.

I call look at the latest tournament results and meta after eldar came out. Calling the green tide/gun line army absolutely devastating is not correct. I still believe NIds with the right list is better, that being said Nids have suffered from the shooty change that came with the six edition.Nob bikers, ork shootas, lootas, big guns, and maybe some battlewagon lists with meganobs, thats not many units. Although trukk lists are extremelly fun and can do alright, so I guess Orks are probably still more fun to play than Nids, so there is that.

I'm going to call fan-based bias.

Tyranids have horrifyingly bad internal balance. Orks do not. Tyranids and orks are probably about the same in terms of overall competitiveness too...so really it comes down to two books, one with a boring selection of units where you either take something that sucks, or something that is pretty good...or the other book, where you have a decent selection with a few standouts, but nothing really significant that nobody EVER EVER takes...like Warriors, Pyrovores, Raveners, and Tyranofexes (at least not if they want to win)

Ralis wrote:
There does seem to be a push to try to get everything updated with 6th ed

Certainly seems to be the case. Personally, I'm liking the current mindset a lot.

Ralis wrote:
True BT are a good candidate for a supplemental codex, so we might be seeing them at the same time as a vanilla SM update.

Check Faeit, bro. Templars are getting their own codex.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/black-templar-rumors-crusade-army.html
http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/black-templar-rules-neophytes-vows-and.html

None of that supplement nonsense for the boys in black.

BrotherVord wrote:
I'm going to call fan-based bias.

Tyranids have horrifyingly bad internal balance. Orks do not. Tyranids and orks are probably about the same in terms of overall competitiveness too...so really it comes down to two books, one with a boring selection of units where you either take something that sucks, or something that is pretty good...or the other book, where you have a decent selection with a few standouts, but nothing really significant that nobody EVER EVER takes...like Warriors, Pyrovores, Raveners, and Tyranofexes (at least not if they want to win)

Pyrovores, ever since Chaos Spawn became awesome, are indisputably the worst unit in the entire game.

God damn it Cruddace.

I don't want to be that guy but Sister Of Battle...

 captain bloody fists wrote:
I don't want to be that guy but Sister Of Battle...

Sisters aren't in the immediate future, but are not in line to be dropped and are being worked on.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/enter-citadel-sisters-of-battleblack.html
http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/sisters-of-battle.html

Not gonna lie, am pretty psyched about it.

I agree that Nids and sisters along with others do need updates. My argument is that Orks use to be and to some point still are, one of warhammers most iconic and beloved armies. Nids for example were updated in fifth and were very strong, now they have fallen in sixth, and sisters need a lot of work for an update to happen, not to mention that they are not very popular, those reasons in mind I believe the ork codex deserves an update more. Honestly I like almost every army and wish gw could keep most armies close in competitiveness.

TableTopJosh wrote:
... and sisters need a lot of work for an update to happen, not to mention that they are not very popular, ....

At least one of the studio guys has mentioned in the past that the higher-ups at GW apparently aren't find of the idea of the Sisters, and so tend to drag their heels about approving any work on them. That's not likely to change until Sisters can be proven to be a money-spinner... and that isn't going to happen until they get a bit of loving from the studio. Catch 22, really.

Yeah it is. Its too bad really because as we have just seen with eldar new releases can really revive armies.

 Troike wrote:

 captain bloody fists wrote:
I don't want to be that guy but Sister Of Battle...

Sisters aren't in the immediate future, but are not in line to be dropped and are being worked on.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/enter-citadel-sisters-of-battleblack.html
http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/sisters-of-battle.html

Not gonna lie, am pretty psyched about it.

when their time comes i'm buying the crap out of them while they last.

 insaniak wrote:

At least one of the studio guys has mentioned in the past that the higher-ups at GW apparently aren't find of the idea of the Sisters, and so tend to drag their heels about approving any work on them. That's not likely to change until Sisters can be proven to be a money-spinner... and that isn't going to happen until they get a bit of loving from the studio. Catch 22, really.

But work has been approved on them. See the links I posted, word from GW is that they're in line to be updated.

 captain bloody fists wrote:


when their time comes i'm buying the crap out of them while they last.

Same here!

The day Sisters get a release is the day I commit a brutal assault upon my bank account. I fully expect to buy several boxes of 'em.

 Troike wrote:
The day Sisters get a release is the day I commit a brutal assault upon my bank account. I fully expect to buy several boxes of 'em.

Several? I'll be after at least 2500pts worth

Orks are rumored October...