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Pony_law wrote:
The chaos book is better tan many people on dakka give it credit for. That said the reason people will constantly tell you to ad helldrakes to your list is they are arguably the best unit in the game.

The chaos book is fairly powerful, but it is a bore to play and use. With so much fluff around chaos you get a book that makes your army feel completely disconnected. A lot of people on dakka complain about that and it really has very little to do with power level.

 Daba wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

it's a flier with a turret weapon, so it can linger on the battlefield.

This is probably one of the worst part of it, but also the easiest to errata. It basically makes a 24" diameter death zone around anywhere it next flies to, rather than being bound to 12" from a 45 degree arc.

Except it was Errata'd TO having said turret.

butt flames FTW.

Ailaros, I read your fantastic post on that thread and that's what really got me thinking about it.

Peregrine, you're saying that playing an army without allies is sub-par, yes? Why do you think that?

Tycho, I played against Orks, 'Nids, as well as Wolves and Tau. And I've been beating my best friend with his DA reliably, both with and without the drake. Mayhap that's a bad example though, as he fields mostly deathwing so the drake doesn't make much of an impact in those games anyway.

Akaean and Zweischneid, I like the way you spell it out, your statements makes a great deal of sense. Yes I'm working on a backstory for my force, Sons of the Last breath, but I'm also still at the point where I'm testing out all that the codex has to offer.

Props Von Chogg! Noise are the boss, eh? And maybe that's just it; Heldrakes are fantastic for their cost, sure, and can cause a lot of stress to opponents, but they aren't the only thing CSM has to bring to the table.


And there are definitely ways to wreck drakes. The aforementioned DA playing friend used the standard of devastation, 30+ 'rines, and a librarian with force field in essentially a giant blob. Got me lots of hits with the flamer template, but I had killed maybe 6 marines before they shot the drake down. As gossipmeng said decent AA drops heldrakes like flies.

The problem with the Chaos Book is the same with the Nids book, it's not that it's bad, it's that it's boring and rife with autotake and avoid the hell out of units.

 Laughingcarp wrote:
Peregrine, you're saying that playing an army without allies is sub-par, yes? Why do you think that?

No, I'm saying that allies, even "abusive" allies, don't break the game. If the people you play with ban allies because it's "too powerful" then you're dealing with people who want to play with weaker lists and not optimize everything. So it's really not much of a surprise that you can win against them without optimizing your own list as much as possible (IOW, spamming Helldrakes).

Gotcha.
Well since I learned right off the bat that allies wasn't an option, I haven't even looked into them. Suppose I'll do that now, see what they're on about.

 Kain wrote:
The problem with the Chaos Book is the same with the Nids book, it's not that it's bad, it's that it's boring and rife with autotake and avoid the hell out of units.

it really is super boring, no synergy, doesnt bring its fluff to the table

 Exergy wrote:

 Kain wrote:
The problem with the Chaos Book is the same with the Nids book, it's not that it's bad, it's that it's boring and rife with autotake and avoid the hell out of units.

it really is super boring, no synergy, doesnt bring its fluff to the table

And one god seemed to get all the nice things while the others got maybe one or two (Khorne and Slaanesh) or just a steaming pile of grox gak (Tzeentch).

 Kain wrote:


The Book can be made to work, but it's very cookie cutter.

Sadly it's the exact same issue the last codex had, same basic army design as well. Just replacing the Daemon Prince with Drakes.

 minigun762 wrote:

 Kain wrote:


The Book can be made to work, but it's very cookie cutter.

Sadly it's the exact same issue the last codex had, same basic army design as well. Just replacing the Daemon Prince with Drakes.

I think I just showed pretty much every competitive CSM list on the first page.