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Was playing a friend last night and we had a few questions that we were unable to resolve ourselves.

When do wave Serpents have to check for difficult/dangerous terrain?

Can wave serpents move 12 inches and disembark troops?

Are eldar weapon platforms relentless? Ie can move and shoot heavy weapons.

I know they're simple but we had quite a "discussion" on them last night so we decided we needed a third party. We've also got a 6 pack on our respective choices. Thanks for your help!

1) the same time any other vehicle would have to check for dangerous terrain. (Check the DT rules it tells you in there).

2) The transport rules explicitly cover how far a vehicle can move and have the unit disembark, check the index for Transport vehicles.

3) The Relentless rule explicitly covers this question, check the Index for the page number on relentless.


I am not sure what you are unclear about these rules are all very clear.

Exidur wrote:
When do wave Serpents have to check for difficult/dangerous terrain?

As said same as any other skimmer - check the rulebook for the rules.

Can wave serpents move 12 inches and disembark troops?

See above.

Are eldar weapon platforms relentless?!

Very clearly answered in the Eldar codex.

He was claiming that eldar had a bunch of special rules allowing them to never check for dangerous terrain, move 12 and disembark etc. and even though he couldn't produce the rules he was still very adamant that he was right. He also claimed that since relentless wasnt mentioned in the codex that the platforms lost the rule.

Thanks for the help..

There IS a piece of vehicle equipment that grants move throught cover, automaticallly passing dangerous terrain tests,that's an option though.
And the rules for the platform is in the "armory" part of the codex, and answers your question

Exidur wrote:


When do wave Serpents have to check for difficult/dangerous terrain?

Can wave serpents move 12 inches and disembark troops?

Are eldar weapon platforms relentless? Ie can move and shoot heavy weapons.

Not sure when it became fashionable around here to answer questions with "go read the rules", but here are answers.


1. When they start or end their move in said terrain (unless they are equipped with special wargear)

2. No

3. Yes

 Arschbombe wrote:

Exidur wrote:


When do wave Serpents have to check for difficult/dangerous terrain?

Can wave serpents move 12 inches and disembark troops?

Are eldar weapon platforms relentless? Ie can move and shoot heavy weapons.

Not sure when it became fashionable around here to answer questions with "go read the rules", but here are answers.


1. When they start or end their move in said terrain (unless they are equipped with special wargear)

2. No

3. Yes

And when his friend challenges him what happens? He can either say "I was told this online" or he can show him the relevant passages and there won't be a further argument.

 Arschbombe wrote:
Not sure when it became fashionable around here to answer questions with "go read the rules", but here are answers.

This has always been the case for rules that are clear.

This is because these answers are clear in the rulebook and this forum is not a replacement for the rulebook, so directing the OP to the rules is fine, If there is a specific question about an unclear rule then I would be more than happy to help.

If he has a rulebook then these questions are clearly answered there...

The main reason for this post was to prove to my stubborn friend that eldar did not have magical vehicle rules that allowed then to circumvent basic rules out of the rulebook. He was positive that they were in the eldar codex and he just couldn't find them.

Exidur wrote:
The main reason for this post was to prove to my stubborn friend that eldar did not have magical vehicle rules that allowed then to circumvent basic rules out of the rulebook. He was positive that they were in the eldar codex and he just couldn't find them.

Yea, next time tell him: "Until you can show me that rule that says what you are claiming, we are just going to use the default rules in the BRB"

That should solve any issues.

I would tell him that this situation is incentive for him to read his rulebook again (and again and again). That way, when he has a crazy rule, he can point you to it.
But as others have said, unless you can show me the rule, then it shouldn't be used--especially when it directly contradicts basic BRB rules.
Like Necron Warriors disembarking from a Zooming Croissant. The first time someone pulled that on me, I asked to see the rule, since it was so ridiculous. In that situation, him saying, "Oh, we have special teleporters" would not have convinced me that he was right; just like in your situation, him saying, "Oh, Eldar have magical vehicles" shouldn't convince you. Part of the game is knowing your rules and knowing where they are located!

I'm afraid pointing him to the rulebook and stating that they are clear leave him no better off. Providing him with page number, will help however. ..

 MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:
I'm afraid pointing him to the rulebook and stating that they are clear leave him no better off. Providing him with page number, will help however. ..

As I had said the page numbers for the listed rules are in the index. Getting used to using the Index is a helpful tool to have when trying to figure out the rules.

I pointed out all the rules (I'm a firm believer in knowing the rule inside and out) from the rulebook but I've been out of town for awhile and haven't internalized the eldar codex yet. Since it wasnt worth spending 30 minutes of him trolling through the codex trying to find the "magical rules" I let him have his way. After reading through the codex again last night without finding anything contradicting what the rulebook said she still insisted that he was right and I just missed it. This was just to prove to him that I'm not going crazy. Like I said he gets really stubborn sometimes (we've been gaming together for 7+ years) and doesn't always believe me. But all is well and he's bringing me my 6 pack tonight when we have our rematch. Thanks for your help guys.

6 pack of what? Donuts?

IcyFireKnight wrote:
6 pack of what? Donuts?

This is an example of "spam," as discussed in our forum rules.. Please keep your posts related to the topic at hand.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:
I'm afraid pointing him to the rulebook and stating that they are clear leave him no better off. Providing him with page number, will help however. ..

As I had said the page numbers for the listed rules are in the index. Getting used to using the Index is a helpful tool to have when trying to figure out the rules.

an effective leader would give the answer and show them where to find it... This presents a nurturing sense where people will be happier about coming here with more difficult questions... If I were to be at my local store, got asked important yet simple questions about where to find rules and responded each time with "Go look in your rulebook in the index" I probably wouldt have too many people to play with or many friends for that matter... its just simply bad form dude... bite the bullet and help the person or dont waste your time, its not hard...

 WarlordRob117 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:
I'm afraid pointing him to the rulebook and stating that they are clear leave him no better off. Providing him with page number, will help however. ..

As I had said the page numbers for the listed rules are in the index. Getting used to using the Index is a helpful tool to have when trying to figure out the rules.

an effective leader would give the answer and show them where to find it... This presents a nurturing sense where people will be happier about coming here with more difficult questions... If I were to be at my local store, got asked important yet simple questions about where to find rules and responded each time with "Go look in your rulebook in the index" I probably wouldt have too many people to play with or many friends for that matter... its just simply bad form dude... bite the bullet and help the person or dont waste your time, its not hard...

If the item being looked for is not in the index (such as "How does Twin-linked interact with BS6+?") I agree point them to a page. If the question is how does Fearless work, as far as I'm concerned, direct them to the index. This way, when the question comes up mid-game they can quickly find it again.

 WarlordRob117 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:
I'm afraid pointing him to the rulebook and stating that they are clear leave him no better off. Providing him with page number, will help however. ..

As I had said the page numbers for the listed rules are in the index. Getting used to using the Index is a helpful tool to have when trying to figure out the rules.

an effective leader would give the answer and show them where to find it... This presents a nurturing sense where people will be happier about coming here with more difficult questions... If I were to be at my local store, got asked important yet simple questions about where to find rules and responded each time with "Go look in your rulebook in the index" I probably wouldt have too many people to play with or many friends for that matter... its just simply bad form dude... bite the bullet and help the person or dont waste your time, its not hard...

You see, that is the thing, they are wasting our time by asking questions that can clearly be answered by using the Index in their BRB to find the rule in question...

Asking for rules ad nauseum is bad form, and frankly against the forum rules as this forum is not a replacement for the codex.

Teaching them how to use the index is far more valuable than telling them what the rule is and what page it is on.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 WarlordRob117 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:
I'm afraid pointing him to the rulebook and stating that they are clear leave him no better off. Providing him with page number, will help however. ..

As I had said the page numbers for the listed rules are in the index. Getting used to using the Index is a helpful tool to have when trying to figure out the rules.

an effective leader would give the answer and show them where to find it... This presents a nurturing sense where people will be happier about coming here with more difficult questions... If I were to be at my local store, got asked important yet simple questions about where to find rules and responded each time with "Go look in your rulebook in the index" I probably wouldt have too many people to play with or many friends for that matter... its just simply bad form dude... bite the bullet and help the person or dont waste your time, its not hard...

You see, that is the thing, they are wasting our time by asking questions that can clearly be answered by using the Index in their BRB to find the rule in question...

Asking for rules ad nauseum is bad form, and frankly against the forum rules as this forum is not a replacement for the codex.

Teaching them how to use the index is far more valuable than telling them what the rule is and what page it is on.

You see I disagree... a person who has posted more than 10K times on dakka doesnt have the luxury of wasted time. Also, if it was a waste of your time, why post anything at all? you want to be helpful but you want to rude about it.

As I said, you want to maintain good status? you show them and tell them what it is and where to find it... its harder on the internet but if you really want to be helpful, then be helpful. If you think its a waste of time, dont bother posting anything.

 WarlordRob117 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 WarlordRob117 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:
I'm afraid pointing him to the rulebook and stating that they are clear leave him no better off. Providing him with page number, will help however. ..

As I had said the page numbers for the listed rules are in the index. Getting used to using the Index is a helpful tool to have when trying to figure out the rules.

an effective leader would give the answer and show them where to find it... This presents a nurturing sense where people will be happier about coming here with more difficult questions... If I were to be at my local store, got asked important yet simple questions about where to find rules and responded each time with "Go look in your rulebook in the index" I probably wouldt have too many people to play with or many friends for that matter... its just simply bad form dude... bite the bullet and help the person or dont waste your time, its not hard...

You see, that is the thing, they are wasting our time by asking questions that can clearly be answered by using the Index in their BRB to find the rule in question...

Asking for rules ad nauseum is bad form, and frankly against the forum rules as this forum is not a replacement for the codex.

Teaching them how to use the index is far more valuable than telling them what the rule is and what page it is on.

You see I disagree... a person who has posted more than 10K times on dakka doesnt have the luxury of wasted time. Also, if it was a waste of your time, why post anything at all? you want to be helpful but you want to rude about it.

As I said, you want to maintain good status? you show them and tell them what it is and where to find it... its harder on the internet but if you really want to be helpful, then be helpful. If you think its a waste of time, dont bother posting anything.

This post made my day. We all have questions, sometimes it nice to get an answer and not just a "how dare you not know the rules" type post.

 WarlordRob117 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

You see, that is the thing, they are wasting our time by asking questions that can clearly be answered by using the Index in their BRB to find the rule in question...

Asking for rules ad nauseum is bad form, and frankly against the forum rules as this forum is not a replacement for the codex.

Teaching them how to use the index is far more valuable than telling them what the rule is and what page it is on.

You see I disagree... a person who has posted more than 10K times on dakka doesnt have the luxury of wasted time.

As I said, you want to maintain good status? you show them and tell them what it is and where to find it... its harder on the internet but if you really want to be helpful, then be helpful. If you think its a waste of time, dont bother posting anything.

Well disagree all you want, the forum is not a replacement for the rulebook...

As noted here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/411795.page#3591262
and here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/474327.page#4730975
and here, here, here ,here etc...:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/468339.page#4627422
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/526577.page#5609583
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/468230.page#4624914
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/461583.page#4515075
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/456417.page#4419001

As you can see these forums are not a replacement for a rulebook or codex.

I did show and tell them exactly what it is and where to find it, the index holds this information...

it is not a waste of time to help people find the information they are looking for, and get them used to using the Index.

No one likes to waste time, and being "a person who has posted more than 10K times on dakka" does not mean I have time to waste.

I spend, on average 10 minutes per day on Dakka, this is all in my downtime, so it it not time wasted, it is time well spent...

why post anything at all? you want to be helpful but you want to rude about it.

I post because it makes people think instead of just running to the forum for rules questions that they may or may not have a book to find the answers for. and as we know Dakka is not a replacement for a rulebook or codex.

I want to be helpful, I do not want to be rude, but some questions are clear, and the OP's questions could be clearly answered by reading the index and finding the pages of the specific rules he was looking for. and they clearly answered his question.

Okay, I think that's about enough of this digression.

For reference, and just so it's clear - there is NOTHING wrong with pointing people to the page in the rulebook where a rule can be found, rather than spelling out the answer.