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Hi Everyone

I have a couple of questions for the 40K background experts. I have been struggling to pick my next army to paint (and play in casual games.) For awhile now I have wanted to create a Knights of Gryphoone army which has very little established lore (almost none.) I like them because I want to paint an orange army and the small amount of background states they are a space fairing fleet without a homeworld which was destroyed by Tyranid Leviathan. The lexicanum says their homeworld was either Gryphon IV or another planet in that system. So.... after seeing some of the pre heresy models by FW I thought I would like to mix preheresy and post heresy units theory being as a space fairing fleet they have retained and preserved as much as they could of the old equipment while roaming space and obtaining new technology as available etc. And I would like to add Adeptus Mechanica allies being that Gryphon IV was a forgeworld and theory that the close proximity and common Tyranid threat would have created lots of opportunity for mutual alliances.

How is this sounding so far? I am not that far in the HH books just finished book 3 so not sure if there is something about the Adeptus Mechanicum that would conflict with this proposed backstory.

Appreciate everyones thoughts

Cheers

Well, I know there are some chapters that are VERY close to the adeptus mechanicus. I'm just not sure if they tool around together all the time. A techpriest+retinue or 2 aboard the chapter's battle barge could make sense, maybe some advanced tech that got gifted over, but I don't know how much else.

Thanks. Well for the Mechanicum I was hoping of incorporating a FW Thallax Cohort and other mechaicum models as they come out. In addition to tech priest etc.

PalmerC wrote:
Thanks. Well for the Mechanicum I was hoping of incorporating a FW Thallax Cohort and other mechaicum models as they come out. In addition to tech priest etc.

I think in your fluff you really need to decide if the SM are a detachment serving the Mechanicus or the Mechanicus are a detachment serving the SM chapter.

 Exergy wrote:

PalmerC wrote:
Thanks. Well for the Mechanicum I was hoping of incorporating a FW Thallax Cohort and other mechaicum models as they come out. In addition to tech priest etc.

I think in your fluff you really need to decide if the SM are a detachment serving the Mechanicus or the Mechanicus are a detachment serving the SM chapter.

Thanks that is a great point and I am looking for more comments/observations like this.

I had envisioned it first as an astartes army and the idea of the mechanicus was a recent thought. I think from a model count perspective I am planning on having more space marines so I think I would be going for the mechanicum serving the Knights of Gryphoone. I wonder if the initial introduction of the two could be based on common circumstances (i.e. fall of Gryphon) but the long term alliance would be the mechanicum benefiting from lost technology discovered while a part of the space fairing fleet?

Cheers

PalmerC wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

PalmerC wrote:
Thanks. Well for the Mechanicum I was hoping of incorporating a FW Thallax Cohort and other mechaicum models as they come out. In addition to tech priest etc.

I think in your fluff you really need to decide if the SM are a detachment serving the Mechanicus or the Mechanicus are a detachment serving the SM chapter.

Thanks that is a great point and I am looking for more comments/observations like this.

I had envisioned it first as an astartes army and the idea of the mechanicus was a recent thought. I think from a model count perspective I am planning on having more space marines so I think I would be going for the mechanicum serving the Knights of Gryphoone. I wonder if the initial introduction of the two could be based on common circumstances (i.e. fall of Gryphon) but the long term alliance would be the mechanicum benefiting from lost technology discovered while a part of the space fairing fleet?

Cheers

Well that certainly works. Either way you cannot have 2 equal sized forces with 2 masters going about their merry way.

I would think of it this way:
The mechanicus from the forge world fled(to somewhere, probably nearby) and started to settle/build a new forge world. Because of their limited resources they can not afford to fund/deploy an Explorator fleet to explore this still somewhat uncharted territory looking for old tech.
The Chapter responded to the loss of their homeworld by becoming semi nomadic, recruiting from a number of systems in the area and keeping most of their resources mobile(to protect them, remembering all to well how the loss of their homewold reduced their fighting strength)
So the marines are always out moving and exploring things, often running in to things that interest them but that they cannot truly understand while the mechanicus devotes most of their resources to building a new forge world, so they cannot explore like they would like to. This then leaves many of the more adventurous tech priests bored and the general mech population unhappy with the pursuit of truth and knowledge being unfulfilled. MATCH MADE IN HEAVEN. The Marines agree to transport around a detachment of younger techpriests to let them explore whenever possible. The techpriests help to service the marines gear and ships as they are in constant need of maintenance without a homeworld to service them. These on the run enhancements wouldnt nessessarily fit standard codex patterns, each might be different giving the marines a kind of admech feel to them.


I do almost the exact opposite with a bunch of fallen Iron Hands worshiping some Dark Mechanicus in a almost Word Bearer fashion, but with the marines being smaller and definitely subservient to the Dark Mech

I like this line of thinking.

I also wanted there to be a theme of "against the Tyranids" as they destroyed Gryphone and was planning on doing some minor conversions showing some Tyranid bits on some of the bases etc. I haven't read "Mechanicum" yet. I am not sure how emotional the Adeptus Mechanicum would be about the loss of their forgeworld and whether they would seek revenge or harbor a grudge etc.

PalmerC wrote:
I like this line of thinking.

I also wanted there to be a theme of "against the Tyranids" as they destroyed Gryphone and was planning on doing some minor conversions showing some Tyranid bits on some of the bases etc. I haven't read "Mechanicum" yet. I am not sur ehow emotional the Adeptus Mechanicum would be about the loss of their forgeworld and whether they would seek revenge or harbor a grudge etc.

there is a whole line of mechanicus that studies biology, bioenhancements, genetics. They could also be around searching for tyranid specimans to undersatnd them or to try and find weaknesses in them to ultimately try and get revenge.

But remember, the machine is cold and calculating. Most of them would be risk adverse and more interested in rebuilding than going out on a blind quest for vengence.

Yes I read in the lexicanum about the different sects of the mechanicum and I could incorporate the biomancy as well. What units have you brought into your dark mechanicum? Forge world I hear is going to be bringing more mechanicum so there appears to be more options coming.

You could make the backstory similar to the novel 'Priests of Mars'. Say the Adeptus Mechanicus expedition is on a quest to track down an STC in an area known for Xenos encounters of all kinds. Along with the expedition for the STC, biologists who want the opportunity to study xenos worlds/fauna working for the Mechanicus are tagging along as well. In order to facilitate the safety of the expedition, and more importantly the return of the STC, your chapter was contacted to alter its HQ's course to rendezvous with the fleet and escort it, resulting in the bad ass alliance forming a motley crew of supersoldiers, scientists, perhaps an Inquisitor, and lots of machinery and giant robots.

Come to think of it, I have the complete Skulz Adeptus Mechanicus set, this might make for a decent backdrop for them and my marines/IG.

 PrehistoricUFO wrote:
You could make the backstory similar to the novel 'Priests of Mars'. Say the Adeptus Mechanicus expedition is on a quest to track down an STC in an area known for Xenos encounters of all kinds. Along with the expedition for the STC, biologists who want the opportunity to study xenos worlds/fauna working for the Mechanicus are tagging along as well. In order to facilitate the safety of the expedition, and more importantly the return of the STC, your chapter was contacted to alter its HQ's course to rendezvous with the fleet and escort it, resulting in the bad ass alliance forming a motley crew of supersoldiers, scientists, perhaps an Inquisitor, and lots of machinery and giant robots.

Come to think of it, I have the complete Skulz Adeptus Mechanicus set, this might make for a decent backdrop for them and my marines/IG.

Lots of good info there. It seems like there are a number of reasons why you could justify this kind of alliance. Since the Space Marines will still be the bulk of my army (unless FW puts out a ton of Mechanicus models lol) I will likely try and still have the Tyranid Leviathon destruction of Gryphon as a key part of the backstory. But I think there is alot of info here to support the Mechanicus alliance which will make painting the army and fielding it that much more fun! This isnt meant to be a super competitive army more for casual games at my local club.

PalmerC wrote:
Yes I read in the lexicanum about the different sects of the mechanicum and I could incorporate the biomancy as well. What units have you brought into your dark mechanicum? Forge world I hear is going to be bringing more mechanicum so there appears to be more options coming.

you are somewhat hamstrung by what codex you are using for primary / allies

I run CSM+IG or SW+IG with the admech giving me
Chaos Spawn, Oblits, cultists, dreads, daemon engines, sentinals, IG squads, Heavy Weapon Squads, Marbo, roughriders, and TANKS.
Thunderwolf Cav, direwolves, dreads, sentinals, IG squads, Heavy Weapon Squads, Marbo, roughriders, and TANKS.

I can see you could make some cool biomancy ogryns, roughriders, TWC, or Chaos spawn; they just need to be hulking bio constructs with a bit of mech thrown in. I have some DE grotesques that are rather similar.

This is going to be a bit of a long term project for me so i am thinking the primary codex will be the 6th space marine codex and I am hoping to use th eHorus Heresy FW rules for the mechanicum allies. In any case I am not planning on using the army in tournaments etc.

I would suspect that being a successor chapter and losing a lot of their stuff with the destruction of their homeworld, they wouldn't have much heresy era equipment. A lot of it would be the new stuff made by their Mechanicum allies. I could be wrong. Love the idea though, the Mechanicum is my favorite faction in the 40k universe.

I guess I will have to write something to explain that. Like the mechanicum repairing it. As I understand it some of the heresy era technology was the peak of Imperial tech. So I am guessing where you still may have it would be highly valued. I am mainly wanting a squad of the heresy jetbikes and possibly some of the terminator armor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looks like the legio gryphonicus survived the tyranid invasion according to this info. They took part in defending Caria in the 13th black crusade. Hmm the plot thickens

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Legio_Gryphonicus

PalmerC wrote:
I guess I will have to write something to explain that. Like the mechanicum repairing it. As I understand it some of the heresy era technology was the peak of Imperial tech. So I am guessing where you still may have it would be highly valued. I am mainly wanting a squad of the heresy jetbikes and possibly some of the terminator armor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looks like the legio gryphonicus survived the tyranid invasion according to this info. They took part in defending Caria in the 13th black crusade. Hmm the plot thickens

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Legio_Gryphonicus

how about the admech learning about the hiveminds tactics and strategy and understanding that it targets organic material. Thus when the chapters homeworld and the forgeworld were destroyed a few transports could have made it out, if they were carrying no organic or minimal organic material. Perhaps they noted what happened after 1 evacuation and used what they learned on the second evac leaving them with considerable amounts of material.

 Exergy wrote:

PalmerC wrote:
I guess I will have to write something to explain that. Like the mechanicum repairing it. As I understand it some of the heresy era technology was the peak of Imperial tech. So I am guessing where you still may have it would be highly valued. I am mainly wanting a squad of the heresy jetbikes and possibly some of the terminator armor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looks like the legio gryphonicus survived the tyranid invasion according to this info. They took part in defending Caria in the 13th black crusade. Hmm the plot thickens

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Legio_Gryphonicus

how about the admech learning about the hiveminds tactics and strategy and understanding that it targets organic material. Thus when the chapters homeworld and the forgeworld were destroyed a few transports could have made it out, if they were carrying no organic or minimal organic material. Perhaps they noted what happened after 1 evacuation and used what they learned on the second evac leaving them with considerable amounts of material.

Very creative! I just may need to borrow some of that! So i do not have a good grasp on Tyranid fluff. Tyranids sense and target organic matter? Not to digress but does that mean the Necrons are pretty much free of Tyranid threat?

PalmerC wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

PalmerC wrote:
I guess I will have to write something to explain that. Like the mechanicum repairing it. As I understand it some of the heresy era technology was the peak of Imperial tech. So I am guessing where you still may have it would be highly valued. I am mainly wanting a squad of the heresy jetbikes and possibly some of the terminator armor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looks like the legio gryphonicus survived the tyranid invasion according to this info. They took part in defending Caria in the 13th black crusade. Hmm the plot thickens

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Legio_Gryphonicus

how about the admech learning about the hiveminds tactics and strategy and understanding that it targets organic material. Thus when the chapters homeworld and the forgeworld were destroyed a few transports could have made it out, if they were carrying no organic or minimal organic material. Perhaps they noted what happened after 1 evacuation and used what they learned on the second evac leaving them with considerable amounts of material.

Very creative! I just may need to borrow some of that! So i do not have a good grasp on Tyranid fluff. Tyranids sense and target organic matter? Not to digress but does that mean the Necrons are pretty much free of Tyranid threat?

'Nids consume organic matter(biomass) on a planet and convert it into the additional nids/fleet. when they leave a world, they have completely consumed all organic material on the world leaving it dead.
The hivemind is highly intelligent and often strikes at what is most valueable to the enemy, regardless of it's value later on but the number of minions direclty linked to the hivemind is limited. It is likely that many of the lesser 'Nids when undirected by higher intelligence only go on simple instincts (like presence of biomass)

So assume 2 transports are fleeing in opposite directions and there are only enough 'nids to stop and destroy one. One is a small slow transport full of powered down titan parts while the other is a larger faster transport full of rotting potatoes.
-if a intelligent 'nid was present, the nid fleet would probably pursue the titan parts, as they are clearly of more value to the enemy
-if only simpler less intelligent 'nids were there the 'nid fleet would pursue the potatoes, drawn to it's size, speed, or biomass signature.

now if there was an all out evacuation of a developed planet there would be hundreds if not thousands of ships fleeing in just about every direction. Some would probably make it while others would not. Later the survivors would be cataloged by a intelligence like the AdMech. Every detail would be collected, size of the ship, trajectory, speed, cargo, number of crew. They would analyse and note patterns. In a second evacuation strategies would be devised to fool the enemy and more high value cargo would escape at the expense of total cargo.
It might involve deception, telling a crew of a starship that they carry an incredibly valuable artifact from the dark age of technology, providing a fake escort, while actually packing the ship with defective old grain havesters while telling another ship they are carrying out of date steam engines while actually putting stores of turbo lasers on board.
It might involve removing or killing the organic components of certain cybernetic systems to allow them to pass the hiveminds keen eye.

Of course the hivemind is highly adaptive, so if the same idea was tried again against the same hivefleet the 'nids might deploy more intelligent hivemind linked nids to search out the high value targets.

It's your fluff, think desperate and be creative. Think about how in a long string of defeats against the 'nid invasion personal action led to small victories in men and material.

Tactical defeat but strategic victory

Great explanation on the possible nid motivations. At this point with the FW models just recently put up for admech it is going to be difficult to not do this army

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/545019.page#5930650

title pretty much explains it

Yes exactly lol and this was supposed to be a long term project for me lol