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One thing that needs to be remembered about these high price tag items and GW's pricing in general, is that when the price is double and you still get half the people to buy it, you make the same amount of revenue AND you get the cost savings of less production, less shipping, less staff, etc.,.

A smart business tries to maximize revenue by finding the price point where units sold multiplied by price equals the highest amount of money possible. Then they also invest some of their revenue in marketing and other activities to try to get even more units sold.

GW internalized all their tooling many years ago. While they have to pay staff and buy some consumables, largely the capital investment to make new moulds is done. So now they can crank up the prices to try to maximize their revenue while investing as little as possible back into the business. Then Kirby & friends can issue themselves a dividend.

This doesn't need to go on forever. It just needs to go on long enough for Kirby to retire richer than he currently is. Maybe as a final feather in his cap, he'll negotiate the sale of GW to another company and he can retire as the richest and most successful person in the history of the hobby gaming industry.

The CHS Lawsuit spreadsheet showed that new releases sell well and variations on the Space Marine idea sell well. So GW doesn't even need to do across the board price increases. They can stop doing the annual 5-10% price hikes and instead price things like the Dire Avengers when new products are released. As long as every two or three releases is a Space Marine related release (be it loyalist or chaos), they'll keep their product line both updated in terms of new models and updated in terms of raising the average price of what they sell.

They also have some major room in terms of cutting administration costs. Their admin team has doubled in size over the last decade while production has shrank. So there's lots of admin people waiting to be laid off if Kirby needs to cut expenses to make the annual reports look good. If GW successfully ran with way more production and less admin staff, they can run with their now reduced production with reduced admin staff and cut some of these jobs.

GW as a company isn't going anywhere, but the real question is whether or not your local 40k or WFB community is going to stick around long term. I'm starting to think Forgeworld and Australian prices show just how much GW can charge per figure and I think we'll see even more aggressive prices on new releases. And again, if they can double the prices again and keep half the customers and cut more admin and production staffs they'll have the same revenue but less costs and thus be more profitable even if they sell half the amount.

Canada and Australia are already priced in near parity with Forgeworld (in some cases more) and I think GW can bring that same pricing policy to the UK and EU as well.

kb305 wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

kb305 wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:
Their prices are stupid.
This http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1080010a&prodId=prod2130120a
is not worth roughly the same price as this
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FS-224-OE&groupid=43&catid=2474

Well, that's pretty subjective.

an awesome computer or some mass produced plastic crap that you need to spend hours, days, weeks cleaning and painting.

to most people it's not subjective at all.

no wonder GW is closing all their stores.

For many people cleaning, building, and painting the models is part of the appeal. Personally, I've never spent that much on a computer not would I, as I don't do any PC gaming or any video editing that would warrant it.

So yeah, it's pretty subjective.

Its about as appealing as running and finishing a marathon. atleast after the run you would be healthier, not more screwed up.

i think most people would just pay someone else to build and paint everything for them if they could afford it.

I keep looking for a point that you're making in these posts, but I can't find one. Millions of people run for fun. There are absurdly long waiting lists for the largest marathons. So I'm not entirely sure what you were trying to use for analogy here, but whatever it was it was a failure.

I think you're 100% wrong in that "most people would just pay someone else to build and paint". 100% wrong. I think the massively popular Painting and Modeling section here would attest to that, as would the pretty vocal number of People that post in it that dont even play the gme but only paint and model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@frozen - I think it's incredibly important to note that the size of their design staff has also increased considerably over the past 5 years.

 Carnage43 wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:
Much as I like painting and modeling, I'd still buy the computer.
No plastic is worth that.

Of course. If you had a windfall of $2000 there's not a lot of people that would go out and buy $2000 of warhammer stuff, they'd buy something that requires $2000 at once to buy.

You can't really build a computer $40 at a time, but over a few months you can put together a warhammer army spending $40 a month.

Unless you live in Australia of course

I'm just going to switch to grey knights. Get ten models on the field and be at around 1500+ points? =) I've only purchased a few new models since i got into the hobby a year ago. My friends and i all buy used models off craigslist and use a automobile paint stripper that doesnt harm the plastic. If you leave it in long enough it will even break down the glue.

 cincydooley wrote:

kb305 wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

kb305 wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:
Their prices are stupid.
This http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1080010a&prodId=prod2130120a
is not worth roughly the same price as this
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FS-224-OE&groupid=43&catid=2474

Well, that's pretty subjective.

an awesome computer or some mass produced plastic crap that you need to spend hours, days, weeks cleaning and painting.

to most people it's not subjective at all.

no wonder GW is closing all their stores.

For many people cleaning, building, and painting the models is part of the appeal. Personally, I've never spent that much on a computer not would I, as I don't do any PC gaming or any video editing that would warrant it.

So yeah, it's pretty subjective.

Its about as appealing as running and finishing a marathon. atleast after the run you would be healthier, not more screwed up.

i think most people would just pay someone else to build and paint everything for them if they could afford it.

I keep looking for a point that you're making in these posts, but I can't find one. Millions of people run for fun. There are absurdly long waiting lists for the largest marathons. So I'm not entirely sure what you were trying to use for analogy here, but whatever it was it was a failure.

I think you're 100% wrong in that "most people would just pay someone else to build and paint". 100% wrong. I think the massively popular Painting and Modeling section here would attest to that, as would the pretty vocal number of People that post in it that dont even play the gme but only paint and model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@frozen - I think it's incredibly important to note that the size of their design staff has also increased considerably over the past 5 years.

no, id say that's wrong, most people run for fitness or for competition actually.

i didnt realize it was so hard to grasp. 2300 canadian for unfinished plastic.

the price of that terrain shows they are out of touch.

for 1000+ you could get a beautifully fully finished set of modular foam boards from a very talented artist.

And you've missed the whole point where I said that, for a great many people, a big portion of the hobby is doing it yourself. That was when you made your incomprehensible analogy to marathons.

kb305 wrote:
an awesome computer or some mass produced plastic crap that you need to spend hours, days, weeks cleaning and painting.

to most people it's not subjective at all.

Of course it's subjective, as are any two reasonable consumer purchases.

If you have someone who just started playing 40k, who already has an awesome computer; which would they prefer? In 2009, I would definitely have picked the 40k stuff because my PC was already top of the line. Or someone who loves 40k and doesn't play computer games at all; someone who is tied into the OSX ecosystem or who just doesn't like computers? I mean, just because it's clear cut to you doesn't mean it would be to anyone else. Which would you rather have, the 2 grand 40k package or 2 grand's worth of manure? What if you were a famer - you see how that matters?

This whole tangent is just foolish to even pursue; frankly. We can do all sorts of halfass analogies but it's a futile pursuit. Seriously, it's like arguing over whether chocolate or vanilla is better.

I get that you personally don't think that 40k package is worth the money; and on that I'd agree with you because I'm just not that into 40k anymore. However, I can grasp that different people like different stuff and value it accordingly.

Which is I guess this thread in a nutshell.

FWIW I wouldn't buy that terrain package in one fell swoop. But again, I wouldn't buy that PC either.

:-)

 cincydooley wrote:
And you've missed the whole point where I said that, for a great many people, a big portion of the hobby is doing it yourself. That was when you made your incomprehensible analogy to marathons.

it's a fine analogy actually.

you cant say painting is anywhere near as good as sitting on your butt watching a good movie or playing a good video game. it isn't. which is why there is a large market for already finished stuff.

i guess you have somewhat of a point? running your ass off for hours is a bit more fun than painting.

I think of present day marketing and can come to only one conclusion of what GW needs to do:

Make a full detailed major production movie like Avengers.

My favorites, X-wing and Robotech are based on movies that as a kid, I would have killed for.
Now I really like it but it just seems to miss the younger market (selling well though!).
Hype and public awareness is what drives the market and justifies the expense of the product.

If they do it well enough maybe Disney would buy them (that would be too funny, how about Disney or equivalent? ).

GW is doing all the same steps that I have seen other companies in bad markets: pull back all work from satellite offices (close where possible) to keep the core offices in the black and busy.
They are unique because they sell only one IP consistently and always, so offer a stability few hobby companies can match.

Where most businesses try to offer more value and bling to their product GW is doing the opposite with no hype to raise perceived value which those who like to argue logically kinda throws it out the window.

BTW @cincydooley I too must applaud your posts, they are better and more thought out. The name calling and general statements are gone... What happened? Wanted to be taken more seriously or got a ghost writer?
I am about ready to friend you for it... but that may just drive you crazy

Get a job.

Because only a jobless person could decided that Games Workshop stuff isn't worth the money.

 Talizvar wrote:
.

BTW @cincydooley I too must applaud your posts, they are better and more thought out. The name calling and general statements are gone... What happened? Wanted to be taken more seriously or got a ghost writer?
I am about ready to friend you for it... but that may just drive you crazy

Without starting a pissing match (because I really don't intend to) most of my posts are multiple line posts that involve at least the bare minimum amount of thinking. Often more. And besides, I don't consider saying someone is fooling "name calling," but to each his own. Perhaps is the first thread we've both participated in, but I typically try to make rational, cogent arguments in my posts.

I agree that if you're jobless maybe expensive hobbies aren't for you (and that isn't limited to war gaming) but I don't think that precludes some of the GW pricing to be high. And again, I've expressed that a few times already in this thread. That being said, I don't think they're under any obligation to lower them.

GW should probably keep increasing the prices. People will pay Forgeworld prices and GW Australia turns a profit despite being much higher than the UK. So there's probably room for GW to increase things in the US, UK and EU even further.

I haven't bought something directly from a GW for at least 6 years now, yet I still play actively. I've obtained most of what I currently have at 50-80% off retail via trading sites.

No..no they shouldn't

 BryllCream wrote:
Get a job.

Got one.
You bore me, narrow that mind a little more.

Well, as a publicly traded company, they should do whatever the shareholders want them to do (within reason, obviously). If the shareholders are satisfied, then that's that.

They probably ought to rethink their aggressive legal policy and might want to consider the long term effects of continually jacking up prices vis a vie potentially yielding more of the market to competitors, but perhaps they have and decided it's worth it anyway.

Regardless, I haven't bought anything from GW other than a few paints in something like three years. I'd obviously like to see them enact at least a price freeze, but, as they see, people in hell want ice water.

 RatBot wrote:
Because only a jobless person could decided that Games Workshop stuff isn't worth the money.

Well yes. I'm on minimum wage and I can still afford a box a week - which is more than I can paint, and far more than I actually buy. I will spend the cost of a tactical squad in about 2 hours in a club


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Talizvar wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
Get a job.

Got one.
You bore me, narrow that mind a little more.

I was addressing the OP, not you.

Just want to point out, Bryll, that I said worth the money. I know plenty of people who can afford GW, but do not buy their models because they don't think they're worth the money, for whatever reason.

For all of you that are making these ethical stands against buying from GW, I think that's great. Honestly. But remember that all that 2nd hand stuff you're buying was purchased from GW at some point. Also remember that GW sells product to distributors at a significant markdown anyway, so the % off retail that you're paying second hand is really far less than GWs bottom selling line.

I mean, I think voting with your wallet is the best way to show your dissatisfaction, but its got a bit more oomph if you actually quit buying their product completely and not just first hand

Forgeworld has better prices for better minis

 RatBot wrote:
Just want to point out, Bryll, that I said worth the money. I know plenty of people who can afford GW, but do not buy their models because they don't think they're worth the money, for whatever reason.

And that brings us back to our circular argument discussing "worth."

So the point of this thread is "I'm not into 40k"? Should I start a thread saying that I have no interest in Debenham's menwear because I consider it over-priced?

If you're a grown-up with a full time job then £25 a week on a hobby isn't too much for *anyone*. If you don't want to spend it on GW then it means you don't like Gw, it's not because it used to only cost you £23 a week (that's an 8% increase which is more than the average price increases before anyone starts).

Each country has their own opinions based on pricing/quality

 cincydooley wrote:

 RatBot wrote:
Just want to point out, Bryll, that I said worth the money. I know plenty of people who can afford GW, but do not buy their models because they don't think they're worth the money, for whatever reason.

And that brings us back to our circular argument discussing "worth."

I suppose. I skipped a few pages of this thread since I (try to, obviously not very successfully) avoid price threads anymore.

You mean you didn't enjoy 'Ultramarines - The Movie' ?

I like fingerpainting whilst watching that flick, and licking windows.

 frozenwastes wrote:
GW should probably keep increasing the prices. People will pay Forgeworld prices and GW Australia turns a profit despite being much higher than the UK. So there's probably room for GW to increase things in the US, UK and EU even further.

Except that sales have been dropping by about 10% a year in Australia for what, a good 5 years now?
price rises and cost cutting have kept them turning a profit but less and less people are playing GW games which is very bad for them long term. It used to be that everyone played 40k cos that's what everyone else played, now people are looking at other games because not everyone plays 40k any more and if nothing changes in a few years no one will be getting into the game because they will have no one to play with.

Actually, we're not that far off from UK and Australia parity on the latest release of Lizardmen:

Lizardman Carnosaur/Troglodon: $100 AUD = £60 GBP, UK price is £50. Markup: 20%

Bastiladon: $90 AUD = £54 UK MSRP £35. Markup: 82%

Pterydon/Ripperdactyls $80 = £48. UK price £35. Markup: 37%

Skink Priest $22 = £13.24. UK price £12. Markup: 10%

Tetto'eko $55 = £33. UK price £30. Markup: 10%

GorRok $25 = £15.05 UK price £15. Markup: 0.3% (wow!)

Auspicious Phalanx One Click Bundle $2337 = £1406 UK Price: £943.60 Markup: 49%

Assuming the Auspicious Phalanx represents a wide variety of the Lizardmen product line, it looks like GW is indeed closing the gap. They've raised the UK prices up to within 50% of Australian prices.

Half way there!

 cincydooley wrote:
I agree that if you're jobless maybe expensive hobbies aren't for you (and that isn't limited to war gaming) but I don't think that precludes some of the GW pricing to be high. And again, I've expressed that a few times already in this thread. That being said, I don't think they're under any obligation to lower them.

Someone jobless would have more important things on their mind than the price of gaming.
For the diversions out there, GW is facing strong competition in number and quality of models as well as engaging IP.
I am under no obligation to buy their stuff if they keep the prices high.

It is simply being attracted elsewhere for gaming value than crying poor.
When you are paying over $7 for a joe troop model however, you do start wondering if it is competing with your scotch fund...