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Makumba wrote:
well technicly my opponent had two woods in front of him too. only he plays legion. The orgs comment to the woods was , that I shouldn't play an imbalanced faction like cygnar .

I am shocked that anyone, especially an event organizer would say that to you. Since when is Cygnar an imbalanced faction? I would have chewed him out for that right on the spot as he sounds like he was being completely bias against you.

You should always have some kind of open path to center field, terrain should never block your army. It should be set up in such a way that you are not forced to move through it, but if you need to keep some models or units safe, they have access to it but you should not have to walk through forests just to reach the mid field. We always leave a solid 8 inches of open ground right in the middle and place forests/walls/hills off to the sides somewhat. It may not be as interesting, but it keeps the games fair while still imposing minor penalties on large armies that cannot deal with rough terrain (since they would be more restricted in their formations in order to bypass the rough terrain).

It's a 4 foot by 4 foot board! How many forests did he put down to completely block you off?

The GW forests(which they were using) are roughly 6" across.

Now if they were spaced roughly 12" away from the edges and 12" away from each other that could still prove to be a major obstacle. 12" can be a tight squeeze in warmachine.

It may be a squeeze, but it won't stop an army as he implied it did.

 Surtur wrote:
It's a 4 foot by 4 foot board! How many forests did he put down to completely block you off?

Well my opponent was late ,so one of the tournament tables were given to WFB players . When he came the only table was a small one which is 2/3 of a 4x3 size and looks like a tunnel . They wanted us to play fast because almost everyone else was finishing their round . I had 3 forests in my half , my opponent had 2 and a building . He was a bit luckier because while both of our terrains look a bit like T he had the building on a flank . I had a big ass WFB forest in front of a circle scoring zone .

That sounds like literally the worst board design I have ever heard of.

That's a darn shame. You getting punished for the opponent showing up late and everything.

On the original topic I'd prefer to think it's because Warmachine is such a balanced and tactical game that it doesn't need any terrain to be fun, but I'm guessing that it's because the gameplay changes radically as you start racking up the terrain count and people don't want to play a completely different style.

I'd like to see what tournament boards are laid out like. I think they actually have restrictions on how terrain can be. I figure that warmachine tournaments are actually designed to make the game as balanced as possible (although maybe not as fun as possible).

Yeah, most of the time there is no terrain in the deployment zone and nothing can be within 3" of another piece. Which I find a little extreme but its not a huge deal.

So the whole reason there is little terrain is because it makes the game hard to play? But i just see armies marching down a single corrider on the board and who ever hits the hardest wins.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So the whole reason there is little terrain is because it makes the game hard to play? But i just see armies marching down a single corrider on the board and who ever hits the hardest wins.

Not exactly. You can't have large swathes of terrain on the board that block off entire areas, and you should make sure there is a decent way to get to the scoring zones that doesn't involve having to go straight through terrain. However, that doesn't mean you can't have a fair bit of terrain on the board, you just have to be mindful of the pieces used and how it's placed.

I don't like the really sparse terrain style that a lot of tournaments use, but I figure it's basically to reduce the strain on organizers for buying/making terrain.

IMHO - You have to have at least some terrain - some models depend on it, look at models that have camo - that ability is worked into those models and they are assumed to have access to certain terrain during gameplay.

KingKodo wrote:
IMHO - You have to have at least some terrain - some models depend on it, look at models that have camo - that ability is worked into those models and they are assumed to have access to certain terrain during gameplay.

Exactly. It's all about using the terrain logically, so that you have enough to allow units that like it to have access to it, while at the same time ensuring that it doesn't give an unfair advantage.
Terrain is such a huge part of the way the game plays that a fair bit of attention has to go into it, and since the standard board is 4x4 there is only so much that can fit on the board without breaking the standards for placing terrain (none in deployment zone, at least 3'' of space between pieces, no unfair advantages, etc.).

But terrain does hurt cygnar a lot . Almost no build in pathfinder, lots of shoting units being essenssial to wining .

Makumba wrote:
But terrain does hurt cygnar a lot . Almost no build in pathfinder, lots of shoting units being essenssial to wining .

Well the 'shooting is essential to winning' is not exactly true. It really depends on your army choice

 motyak wrote:

Makumba wrote:
But terrain does hurt cygnar a lot . Almost no build in pathfinder, lots of shoting units being essenssial to wining .

Well the 'shooting is essential to winning' is not exactly true. It really depends on your army choice

Don't start that

Shooting is the cornerstone of Cygnar

For a vague second I am tempted to wish that Warmachine had a "ballistic skill" like 40k so I could say "Cygnar is all about BS" and have it actually be a relevant and on topic part of the conversation instead of making fun of Cygnar.

 Talamare wrote:

 motyak wrote:

Makumba wrote:
But terrain does hurt cygnar a lot . Almost no build in pathfinder, lots of shoting units being essenssial to wining .

Well the 'shooting is essential to winning' is not exactly true. It really depends on your army choice

Don't start that

Shooting is the cornerstone of Cygnar

Its the cornerstone of most Cygnar builds, not all. As I said, it does depend on your army choice. It is the corner of my Cygnar builds though. That's for certain.

 dementedwombat wrote:
For a vague second I am tempted to wish that Warmachine had a "ballistic skill" like 40k so I could say "Cygnar is all about BS" and have it actually be a relevant and on topic part of the conversation instead of making fun of Cygnar.

What about

"Cygnar are nothing more than RATs"

Makumba wrote:
But terrain does hurt cygnar a lot . Almost no build in pathfinder, lots of shoting units being essenssial to wining .

Cygnar has ways around it just like everyone else, just because they dont have huge access to pathfinder doesnt mean they cant deal with it. Seems to me that being able to place templates that damage models that enter it is perfectly suited for denying terrain. Besides, you are saying you want to give every other faction a disadvantage so that its easier to play cygnar.

Cry me a river, Menoth doesn't have ANY way of getting Pathfinder. Of our infantry only Errants have it naturally and our Jacks are slow as molasses in January.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Cry me a river, Menoth doesn't have ANY way of getting Pathfinder. Of our infantry only Errants have it naturally and our Jacks are slow as molasses in January.

Saxon and The Piper both strongly disagree with your first statement.

KingKodo wrote:


Cygnar has ways around it just like everyone else, just because they dont have huge access to pathfinder doesnt mean they cant deal with it. Seems to me that being able to place templates that damage models that enter it is perfectly suited for denying terrain. Besides, you are saying you want to give every other faction a disadvantage so that its easier to play cygnar.

So I should rather want that only the action I play has it harder by more terrain , that would be illogical . What puts templates that block low arm stuff Stormwalls?

KingKodo wrote:

Makumba wrote:
But terrain does hurt cygnar a lot . Almost no build in pathfinder, lots of shoting units being essenssial to wining .

Cygnar has ways around it just like everyone else, just because they dont have huge access to pathfinder doesnt mean they cant deal with it. Seems to me that being able to place templates that damage models that enter it is perfectly suited for denying terrain. Besides, you are saying you want to give every other faction a disadvantage so that its easier to play cygnar.

Hardly

Only like 2 factions actively want Terrain on 99% of the map, the other 10 or so are content with sparse amounts of terrain and its never alright to have so much terrain on the map that if your army isn't 90% pathfinding you auto lose to scenario

 derek wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Cry me a river, Menoth doesn't have ANY way of getting Pathfinder. Of our infantry only Errants have it naturally and our Jacks are slow as molasses in January.

Saxon and The Piper both strongly disagree with your first statement.

Not in-faction is what I meant. And specifically on our Jacks.

Amon Ad-Raza says "hi"

Although I guess you can be forgiven for not noticing him because he's not exactly the most recognizable caster Menoth has.

You should also meet Idrian Skirmishers, the Exemplar Errant Seneschal and, Vice Scrutator Vindictus.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 derek wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Cry me a river, Menoth doesn't have ANY way of getting Pathfinder. Of our infantry only Errants have it naturally and our Jacks are slow as molasses in January.

Saxon and The Piper both strongly disagree with your first statement.

Not in-faction is what I meant. And specifically on our Jacks.

There isn't much for any faction (except CoC) that hands Pathfinder out to jacks easily.

 Talamare wrote:

KingKodo wrote:

Makumba wrote:
But terrain does hurt cygnar a lot . Almost no build in pathfinder, lots of shoting units being essenssial to wining .

Cygnar has ways around it just like everyone else, just because they dont have huge access to pathfinder doesnt mean they cant deal with it. Seems to me that being able to place templates that damage models that enter it is perfectly suited for denying terrain. Besides, you are saying you want to give every other faction a disadvantage so that its easier to play cygnar.

Hardly

Only like 2 factions actively want Terrain on 99% of the map, the other 10 or so are content with sparse amounts of terrain and its never alright to have so much terrain on the map that if your army isn't 90% pathfinding you auto lose to scenario

No one is saying any of that... You need some terrain so that models that are built to utilize terrain arent at a disadvantage, but not so much that your army has to trudge through it to get anywhere...

I believe long gunners with their UA places templates, black 13th places templates, chain lightning just ignores the def bonus altogether, that heavy warjack with the dual chain guns places templates, stryker's earthquake will knock everything down and negate the terrain bonus mostly. Do ATGMs ignore concealment bonus or was it just stealth? Thats just what I can recall as I do not play cygnar. My buddy has never had an issue hosing my infantry with his gunlines, even with DEF bonuses from terrain.

So something interesting today happened. We played on a board with a corridor like i said. It made it impossible for the friend who brough a stormwall to not shoot me with the big guns he had.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So something interesting today happened. We played on a board with a corridor like i said. It made it impossible for the friend who brough a stormwall to not shoot me with the big guns he had.

I don't follow. Your friend shot his stormwall at you? Its what stormwall does...