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Hello all!

There's something I've been brainstorming about for some time now. My plan is to have both a Farseer and an Autarch in my list above 1500 points. I planed for the Farseer to go with a unit of 6 WRJ + Warlock and the Autarch to go with a unit of Shining Spears. Until it was pointed out to me that grenades, which SS are woefully absent of, work on a model by model basis in this edition, so only one assaulting into cover striking at-initiative is the Autarch himself. That makes the Shining Spears themselves very underwhelming, so I decided to drop them in favour of some Swooping Hawks.

Now, Swooping Hawks are a pretty cool unit, also very cheap, but their unique ability is their ability to DS with no scatter, which isn't possible with the Autarch in the squad. So he won't fit there.

I also run 2 squads of Warp Spiders, but putting the Autarch there is risky and if I don't get split fire, his fusion gun will most likely be an overkill, or if I am shooting my melta at AV14, the rest of the Spiders' guns will be ineffective. Besides, whichever squad the Autarch is in will be focused fired first, which goes against my general strategy of messing my opponent's target priority.

There goes my fast attack. I could put him in a Serpent, but that seems such a waste of his great statline, as he'll not use it much.

So the answer presented itself when I was watching Reecius' batreps on Team0Comp's channel on youtube. He has 10 Hellions, Baron and a Farseer in one squad. Now, as I don't plan to ally my CWE with DE, Hellions and the Baron are out. What IS IN though are those 6 or 9 WRJ with a warlock. My plan is to put him in there, give him a Reaper launcher and the Shard of Anaris to make the entire unit Fearless. Expensive, yes. Worth it? Quite possibly. In any case, if anyone has any better ideas or has any comment or critique regarding mine, feel free to post below!

Best regards, dakkaites!

Mantle Of The Laughing God. Honestly, the only place he fits effectively is no where. HE doesn't offer anything to a lot of Aspects and not many offer him anything. Sure you could go with dire avengers but there is no point to this as he becomes a glorified Exarch imo and his offensive capabilities mean jack.

I would just go with the Laughingtarch. Equip him out how you like. i myself run him fully kitted out at 208pts but this is overkill and isn't worth. Even at 183pt he seems a little to expensive. But many people go for a lighter build at around 140pts.

I'll let others give there opinions on the matter and give more in depth explanations but, I do think a lot of people will agree that Jetbike + MotLG will be the way to go if its not on the Farseer (which from your post it isn't)

I agree with redkeyboard.

Start with the basics:
Autarch + Jetbike + Mantle of the Laughing God

and then add the weapons/gear that complement your list best.

If I were to use him, I would run him with a Laser Lance and Fusion gun and go vehicle/small squad hunting (for a total of 145 points).

Just make sure you stay away from markerlights

Nobody seems to be thinking about Faolchu's Wing.

Equip your autarch with the wing, plus shard of anarion and a power axe. Run him straight at the enemy warlord turn 1, then assault turn 2 and challenge. Instant warlord VP.

But that only works if your opponent decides not to target the autarch with the sarrounding units.

Generally speaking, any Autarch that isn't all about getting into CC is going to be worse than a Farseer in just about every list. The math works out such that a Farseer that commits to rolling on Divination until he gets Scrier's Gaze is about as good for your Reserves rolls as an Autarch (I mean over the whole distribution, not just in an average sense), plus with the Farseer you know before you even deploy whether or not your Reserves will be very reliable. Worst-case, the Farseer has Foreboding, Precognition, and Scrier's Gaze (or Prescience). That's still better than a Reaper Launcher on an Autarch. And if the Reserves bonus isn't that big of a deal to you you can be rolling on other tables. Most witchfire powers are better than a Reaper Launcher, and the Farseer has very cheap access to an S9 shooting attack and 3+2d6 penetration in CC.

The mantle Autarch is actually pretty great. I would recommend;
Autarch + Jetbike + Mantle of the Laughing God + fusion blaster + las lance

Its cheap and effective. Great harassment unit.

The real problem is in every other configuration he is outclassed by other HQ options and usually not as useful as an exarch.

Thanks everyone, but I am aware of the Mantle of the Laughing God Autarch and it's uses and tbh, I'd rather have a Farseer with it.

I was just wondering if anyone has found any other combinations which work well with him. Faolchu's Wing is nice, but if he's on a jetbike, he can't use it, that's the problem.

My farseer doesn't really like Divination, other than Prescience. He likes Telepathy and Runes of Fate. And reserve rolls are a big deal for me. Plus, I like the Autarch's idea and will definitely use him, it's just a matter of where.

I'll test the loudout in the OP today and let you know how it goes.

What IS IN though are those 6 or 9 WRJ with a warlock. My plan is to put him in there, give him a Reaper launcher and the Shard of Anaris to make the entire unit Fearless. Expensive, yes. Worth it? Quite possibly. In any case, if anyone has any better ideas or has any comment or critique regarding mine, feel free to post below!

That's too expensive point-wise and not rewarding enough. This whole idea with an Autarch (with some arcane wargear) and a Jetseer leading a WRJ squadron is inferior to Serpent spam lists. If you want a fun game, go for it. But in a competitive setting, I'd stay away from it.

90% of the game I'll play are fun games, so that shouldn't be an issue. But I don't think it's a silly idea. I don't think there are a lot of units you can go wrong with in the new codex, as long as you keep unit synergy in mind.

Serpent spam is all well and good and boring as hell. I won't play that even on a tournament. That said, I will play a couple of Serpents. Just not 7 of them.

 Araenion wrote:
90% of the game I'll play are fun games, so that shouldn't be an issue. But I don't think it's a silly idea. I don't think there are a lot of units you can go wrong with in the new codex, as long as you keep unit synergy in mind.

Serpent spam is all well and good and boring as hell. I won't play that even on a tournament. That said, I will play a couple of Serpents. Just not 7 of them.

Well, you don't need to play 7 of them. Just a few ones to protect your scoring units. Instead, I'd max out heavy support.

 Araenion wrote:
Hello all!

There's something I've been brainstorming about for some time now. My plan is to have both a Farseer and an Autarch in my list above 1500 points. I planed for the Farseer to go with a unit of 6 WRJ + Warlock

Araenion wrote:Thanks everyone, but I am aware of the Mantle of the Laughing God Autarch and it's uses and tbh, I'd rather have a Farseer with it.

You do know that if you put the Farseer in with WJB unit like you siad in the first post then you can't give him MotLG like you implied in you second post, right?

pantsonhead wrote:
Generally speaking, any Autarch that isn't all about getting into CC is going to be worse than a Farseer in just about every list. The math works out such that a Farseer that commits to rolling on Divination until he gets Scrier's Gaze is about as good for your Reserves rolls as an Autarch (I mean over the whole distribution, not just in an average sense), plus with the Farseer you know before you even deploy whether or not your Reserves will be very reliable.

Except the Farseer doesn't get a Fusion Gun, has no guarantee of getting that power, and if he even attempts to do what you have suggested he has given up all hope of Fortune and Doom.

I put an Autarch in a unit of Warp Spiders with a fusion fun. An extra S8 AP1 shot can't hurt, and it didn't, though I probably won't be doing that again.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:


Except the Farseer doesn't get a Fusion Gun, has no guarantee of getting that power, and if he even attempts to do what you have suggested he has given up all hope of Fortune and Doom.

I very explicitly addressed the "the Farseer has no guarantee of getting Scrier's Gaze" objection in my post. If you actually do the math, which you probably haven't, this turns out to be an advantage for the Farseer. It's almost as if the Autarch allowed you to take your Reserves rolls before you deploy and before you choose which units go in Reserves. Being able to plan ahead is valuable.

"He has given up all hope of Fortune and Doom" is just very confused; you haven't thought this through. I generally agree that in basically all cases a Farseer should not commit to trying for Scrier's Gaze above all else. But a Farseer that does do that is better than an Autarch that isn't being used for lots of CC. If a different sort of Farseer is better still, then the Autarch is an even worse choice. And you don't actually have to decide what powers you're going to try for until you see the enemy's list. Huge advantage for the Farseer here.

Fusion gun, sure. The Autarch is better in very limited situations when he starts from 18" and does not want to charge a vehicle. The Farseer has very cheap access to a 12" S9 shot which is competitive with the fusion gun when 24" away before movement. This seems an awfully nitpicky objection - the Farseer is basically on par with the Autarch unless the Autarch is trying to charge in and hit rear armor with his laser lance.

Edit: And I add that if you already have one Farseer, a second one to help with Scrier's Gaze is in some ways even more desirable because you can split your Divination attempts among them, have more ability to avoid terrible powers by taking Prescience, and can still roll on other tables.

In the previous codex I couldn't think of any way to make Autarchs more viable then Farseers. Now that Farseers are cheaper I definitely leave my Autarch model 1/2 painted in the bottom of my bitz bucket.

The final nail? The only reason I care about the Autarch, reserve roll adjustments, I can get with the Warlord Strategic Trait #4. My only real necessity fr reserves is keeping MSU JBikes away from bullets for a few turns before they make those last minute Steals

I agree.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I agree.

 Flavius Infernus wrote:
Nobody seems to be thinking about Faolchu's Wing.

Equip your autarch with the wing, plus shard of anarion and a power axe. Run him straight at the enemy warlord turn 1, then assault turn 2 and challenge. Instant warlord VP.

There's a reason no one has mentioned it. Why Give him the wing, when he can take motlg? It's wa better for survivablitly and you can stil go really fast, or go slower, have better survivablitly, and shoot.

 Flavius Infernus wrote:
Nobody seems to be thinking about Faolchu's Wing.

Equip your autarch with the wing, plus shard of anarion and a power axe. Run him straight at the enemy warlord turn 1, then assault turn 2 and challenge. Instant warlord VP.

Nobody thinks about because a LoLtarch is so fast it can get into assault just as fast, but with gak-load more survivability.

the unit he best 'fits' with is the Shining Spears where he adds considerable punch to the unit in terms of good # of good WS attacks, and benefits from hit & run. He can also bring access to specialty HQ wargear and warlord traits to the unit (better for Iyanden than stock codex). He brings an invuln save for look out sir shenanigans vs some ignore cover stuff, but generally cover save will make it useless. He's better than the exarch in challenges and you don't risk losing your hit & run access.

I suppose on some rare occasions his grenades could be helpful to the unit.

Shard of Anaris and Banshee mask are more potent in CC than most give credit for.

I agree that Divination farseers are better for reserve manipulation. Having an Autarch and a Farseer is nice too, I always seem to roll three 3+s for scriers gaze when I want to hold back my aircraft or warp spiders.

I think there's only two ways to run him.

With the mantle, on a jetbike. Running around and causing havoc. Or with a squad of shining spears. Jetbike, laser lance, maybe the shard/firesabre, and maybe a fusion gun. He can seperate to go hit something else, and can add some extra punch to the spears. Thanksfully, these two are the same model

I have a WJG autarch with a fusion gun, but i've not used him with the new codex. Maybe sometime....

ninjafiredragon wrote:

 Flavius Infernus wrote:
Nobody seems to be thinking about Faolchu's Wing.

Equip your autarch with the wing, plus shard of anarion and a power axe. Run him straight at the enemy warlord turn 1, then assault turn 2 and challenge. Instant warlord VP.

There's a reason no one has mentioned it. Why Give him the wing, when he can take motlg? It's wa better for survivablitly and you can stil go really fast, or go slower, have better survivablitly, and shoot.

The wing doesn't take away Independent Character, and it's cheaper both in raw cost and because you don't need a jetbike (the wing is incompatable with jetbikes, since you can't run). 25 points cheaper for the whole deal and can hide in a unit.

Maybe add a banshee mask to make sure he goes first in challenges against DE characters.

As a cheap, purely suicidal/assassin character--who can also still just function in an infantry unit as an autarch...I think I talked myself into trying this.

[edit]
Think about armies that depend a lot on their warlord and how you could really cripple an army by taking out Ghazkull or ECM commander or the Baron. Since you're basically throwing the character away, though, the nearly 200-odd points that a mantletarch on a jetbike costs is kind of steep. Also, he obviously shouldn't be your warlord.

And you'd have to find a spot that's out of LoS to run to mostly, and survive overwatch on the assault.

It does replace one of his weapons, so watch out.

Overwatch is a big deal with the wing, it only takes one Plasma shot to get through to take him out. Also, the opponent can decline a challenge, and there's enough units out there that carry enough punch to make life dicey for T3 3W 3+/4++, which cuts down on his options.

Wing can work, but I think it's better playing it for the mission in most scenarios, using the move for Linebreaker, objective denial/contesting, or maybe saving the Warlord point.

The nice thing about the Autarch with Warp Spiders or Shining Spears or Harlequins with Shard/Banshee mask setup is he can hit and run at will, maximising that Banshee Mask.

pantsonhead wrote:
I very explicitly addressed the "the Farseer has no guarantee of getting Scrier's Gaze" objection in my post. If you actually do the math, which you probably haven't, this turns out to be an advantage for the Farseer. It's almost as if the Autarch allowed you to take your Reserves rolls before you deploy and before you choose which units go in Reserves. Being able to plan ahead is valuable.

"He has given up all hope of Fortune and Doom" is just very confused; you haven't thought this through. I generally agree that in basically all cases a Farseer should not commit to trying for Scrier's Gaze above all else. But a Farseer that does do that is better than an Autarch that isn't being used for lots of CC. If a different sort of Farseer is better still, then the Autarch is an even worse choice. And you don't actually have to decide what powers you're going to try for until you see the enemy's list. Huge advantage for the Farseer here.

You are preaching a tactic to get a specific power, and then saying that not being guaranteed to get that power is actually an advantage; and you call me confused Furthermore you have made this claim and then not explained it or backed it up. To follow up, you have made a stab at me saying I probably haven't done the math, yet I don't see your math anywhere either.

And what's to think through? You are advocating rolling all three dice on Divination, therefore no dice on Runes of Fate, and thus you have no chance whatsoever of getting Fortune and/or Doom, the two powers you really want in all situations. What's confusing about that?

You seem to like telling people they have no idea what they are talking about and then going off on an unrelated tangent without backing up anything you are saying. No offense, but clearly those pants on your head are too tight

 Daba wrote:
It does replace one of his weapons, so watch out.

Good point. So with the Shard of Anaris, that means both weapon slots are filled.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:

Wing can work, but I think it's better playing it for the mission in most scenarios, using the move for Linebreaker, objective denial/contesting, or maybe saving the Warlord point.

This is really smart, but it makes me have second thoughts about whether a wing autarch is necessarily better than just a regular jetaurch with no mantle. Can also do all this stuff on a jetbike, and it solves that plasma problem and leaves two weapon options.

DutchSage wrote:
I agree with redkeyboard.

Start with the basics:
Autarch + Jetbike + Mantle of the Laughing God

and then add the weapons/gear that complement your list best.

If I were to use him, I would run him with a Laser Lance and Fusion gun and go vehicle/small squad hunting (for a total of 145 points).

Just make sure you stay away from markerlights

I completely agree, this has to be one of the most annoying builds to play against.

 Flavius Infernus wrote:

 Daba wrote:
It does replace one of his weapons, so watch out.

Good point. So with the Shard of Anaris, that means both weapon slots are filled.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:

Wing can work, but I think it's better playing it for the mission in most scenarios, using the move for Linebreaker, objective denial/contesting, or maybe saving the Warlord point.

This is really smart, but it makes me have second thoughts about whether a wing autarch is necessarily better than just a regular jetaurch with no mantle. Can also do all this stuff on a jetbike, and it solves that plasma problem and leaves two weapon options.

He isn't necessarily better no, can reroll cover, ride in a waveserpent, can still do a normal run with whatever unit, can hide the physical model easier, and that's about it. Given the bike goes 36" instead of 48", the actual movement is a much of a muchness. The main 'problem' is you're forced to put your non-mantle Autarch with some form of Jetbike, because just buying an Autarch a Jetbike and say, sticking him in 20 Guardians means that unit forfeits a Battle focus move - all models must be able to actually run for a unit to do a run move, so sayeth you make da call.

I think that a LaughingJetSeer w/ 2 buffs + Psychic Shriek would not only give you a better return on killing models, but also in being cheaper and more beneficial to the army as a whole.

Iranna.